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post #8281 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post
WOUC can't use 26 if either Erie station goes there.

KDKA can use 25 with either Erie station on 26.

EDIT: If I'm not mistaken, 28 would work for Erie too (WNEO is OK with either WJET or WFXP), and it's far enough from WSYX.
At this point, there are still a lot more possibilities for UHF channels available in Erie, based on everything we know. So trying to guess what will happen in Erie is still too difficult.

On the other hand, when you look at Youngstown, Zanesville, and Cambridge, the possibilities are very few. Between WYTV and WOUC, the only UHF possibilities left to fight over are 22, 26, and 31. The only possibilities left for WKBN are 22 and 31. So you can begin to see just how they’re running out of options. It’s really looking like WHIZ may get 32, because 32 can’t go to Columbus (being adjacent to Dayton’s WHIO). And WOUC can’t get 32 either, being adjacent to WFMJ 33. So there’s a narrow area where 32 will fit with WHIZ.
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post #8282 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 09:05 AM
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WYTV, WKBN, WRLM, WAOH-CD, and WOUC will all be fighting over UHF channels 22, 26, and 31. That's all that's left for them to choose from. The choices are fewer for WRLM and WKBN.

Based on this, WAOH-CD will likely get squashed. WRLM will likely go to low-VHF. WKBN is most likely to get a UHF. But it will be interesting to see who gets 26... WOUC or WYTV. My bets are that WOUB will sell WOUC, and WYTV gets 26. The only problem if this happens is that a large portion of SE Ohio is without a PBS.
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post #8283 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 09:25 AM
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FWIW... the Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse markets have had the following confirmed channel allocations...

WHAM Rochester moves from 13 to 9.
WHEC Rochester stays on 10.
WUHF Rochester stays on 28.
WXXI Rochester moves from 16 to 22.
WKBW Buffalo moves from 38 to 34.
WNYO Buffalo moves from 49 to 16.
WUTV Buffalo moves from 14 to 36.
WNYS Syracuse moves from 44 to 15.
WSTM Syracuse moves from 24 to 19.
WSYT Syracuse moves from 19 to 14.
WTVH Syracuse moves fro 47 to 18.

You can probably put more pieces of the puzzle together with this information (like the Erie DMA).
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post #8284 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 09:44 AM
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WHIZ is moving to channel 30. That means WGGN is definitely moving to the electro-static pit or going away.
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post #8285 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 10:04 AM
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WBNX is moving from channel 30 to 17.
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post #8286 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 10:09 AM
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WQHS is moving from channel 34 to 36.
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post #8287 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
WBNX is moving from channel 30 to 17.
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Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
WQHS is moving from channel 34 to 36.
Wow! Good predictions. At least WQHS will get to stay.

Where did you hear this info from? Sources, or emails from those stations?

Newer is not always better.
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post #8288 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Wow! Good predictions. At least WQHS will get to stay.

Where did you hear this info from? Sources, or emails from those stations?
Searchable database... http://www.nab.org/repacking/clearinghouse.asp
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post #8289 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
WBNX is moving from channel 30 to 17.
Why can't the stations that currently occupy these channels (WKYC on 17 and WBNX on 30) stay where they are? Seems like a lot of expense for nothing. Only the above 36 stations should have to move. If Ch. 19 opens up as a Cleveland frequency, WOIO should go there.

This whole repack process makes no sense at all!
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post #8290 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post
Why can't the stations that currently occupy these channels (WKYC on 17 and WBNX on 30) stay where they are? Seems like a lot of expense for nothing. Only the above 36 stations should have to move. If Ch. 19 opens up as a Cleveland frequency, WOIO should go there.

This whole repack process makes no sense at all!
Michael, WOIO was never allowed to move up to UHF in the spectrum auction. The goal was to get as many channels off UHF as possible.

There are still quite a few local unknowns… WKBN, WOUC, WYTV, WRLM, WAOH, W16DO, WVPX, WDLI, and WGGN.
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post #8291 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 11:48 AM
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It doesn't matter that repacking makes no sense....it makes dollars.
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post #8292 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 11:50 AM
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By process of elimination, the only UHF channel left for WKBN to move to is 31, and the only UHF channel remaining for WRLM to move to is 31. Who do you think wins?... I think it’s much clearer now that WKBN will go to 31.
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post #8293 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post
Why can't the stations that currently occupy these channels (WKYC on 17 and WBNX on 30) stay where they are? Seems like a lot of expense for nothing. Only the above 36 stations should have to move. If Ch. 19 opens up as a Cleveland frequency, WOIO should go there.

This whole repack process makes no sense at all!
It might have something to do with WKYC's null towards the north? Perhaps it will fit better on RF 19 once Canada moves their stations around? WBNX doesn't have a null towards the north, but has one towards the west. Perhaps RF 17 will be used for a Fort Wayne, Indiana station? My guess is that they started the reassignments in one city (likely New York) and worked their way into the adjacent markets across the country so that the majority of stations can be shoehorned in with little effort and predicted interference.

And yes, once again WOIO gets screwed by the FCC. They are likely staying on RF 10 and will probably loose their Akron repeater. As mentioned before, if CPFL moves to another channel, WOIO maybe able to remove their northern nulls, which is good news for Bismarck. However, this won't help Akron/Canton viewers unless WOIO cranks up their power. If their repeater is spared, it's power and/or pattern maybe severely altered so that it can be shoehorned in after all the full powered stations are repacked to their new channels. The worse case scenario would be WOIO's repeater ending up on the low-VHF band. The big kick-in-the-pants will be when WUAB slides over to WOIO's frequency, which means viewers that have difficulties receiving WOIO will also have difficulties receiving WUAB.

Newer is not always better.
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post #8294 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 12:46 PM
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Yes!!!

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Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
WBNX is moving from channel 30 to 17.
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post #8295 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 12:47 PM
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Excellent news.

So it looks like the only channels we might lose are the Media-Com ones. And having CBS19's and MeTV's bandwidth cut in half Could have been much, much worse.

And maybe Ion, but that's not a great loss.

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WQHS is moving from channel 34 to 36.

Last edited by nsa1062; 03-13-2017 at 12:59 PM.
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post #8296 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 12:50 PM
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Plus the wireless companies are paying for all the moves thru the repack fund.

Still, nearly every UHF channels is going to have to move. Seems impossible to do in 3 years considering the limited number of tower crews, all the new antennas that will have to be manufactured, and that you can't do tower work for a good part of the year in the northern part of the country due to the weather, etc.

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It doesn't matter that repacking makes no sense....it makes dollars.
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post #8297 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 12:55 PM
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CleCakYngMfd won't be happy. Any predictions as to what low-VHF channels they will end up on? 5 would be much better than 2

We know the Lima station is going to 2, WQED is 2-6, and I assume WDTV and the Toledo religious station stay (but might be moved to different channels)

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WHIZ is moving to channel 30. That means WGGN is definitely moving to the electro-static pit or going away.
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post #8298 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 01:01 PM
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I’ve been combing through the database of known channel allocations, and I’ve been eliminating some possible UHF channels for the unknown locals by using the repack checker. Here is what I’m speculating.

Between WRLM and WKBN fighting over 31,
WKBN goes to 31. That’s the only UHF channel left for them.
WYTV goes to 26. That’s the only UHF channel left for them if WKBN takes 31.

WOUC could go to 22. That’s the only UHF option they have left. But I think 22 will go to WDLI instead.
WVPX could go off the air and 23 allocated to KDKA (KDKA and WYTV cannot be co-channel if WYTV is on 26 and KDKA on 25)
OR another scenario is that WDLI goes to 23, WVPX to 22, and WYTV pairs with WKBN.

It looks like WGGN and WRLM will get a lot of cash.
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post #8299 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 01:05 PM
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Raycom could have kept RF28 if they wanted to, and sold 10 (though they would have gotten relatively little for it) since they are intent on channel-sharing. They probably would have gotten enough enough for 10 to pay for the new encoder at least.

Then one of the religious stations maybe could have gone to 10, which would have been way better than the low-VHF.

Though if this had happened, one of the UHF's that's staying would have likely gone away or to low-VHF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
And yes, once again WOIO gets screwed by the FCC. They are likely staying on RF 10 and will probably loose their Akron repeater. As mentioned before, if CPFL moves to another channel, WOIO maybe able to remove their northern nulls, which is good news for Bismarck. However, this won't help Akron/Canton viewers unless WOIO cranks up their power. If their repeater is spared, it's power and/or pattern maybe severely altered so that it can be shoehorned in after all the full powered stations are repacked to their new channels. The worse case scenario would be WOIO's repeater ending up on the low-VHF band. The big kick-in-the-pants will be when WUAB slides over to WOIO's frequency, which means viewers that have difficulties receiving WOIO will also have difficulties receiving WUAB.
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post #8300 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 01:13 PM
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I suspect Erie gets 26-27-28, and KDKA stays on 25. WKBN/WYTV channel share on 31. WVPX sticks around on 22.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
I’ve been combing through the database of known channel allocations, and I’ve been eliminating some possible UHF channels for the unknown locals by using the repack checker. Here is what I’m speculating.

Between WRLM and WKBN fighting over 31,
WKBN goes to 31. That’s the only UHF channel left for them.
WYTV goes to 26. That’s the only UHF channel left for them if WKBN takes 31.

WOUC could go to 22. That’s the only UHF option they have left. But I think 22 will go to WDLI instead.
WVPX could go off the air and 23 allocated to KDKA (KDKA and WYTV cannot be co-channel if WYTV is on 26 and KDKA on 25)
OR another scenario is that WDLI goes to 23, WVPX to 22, and WYTV pairs with WKBN.

It looks like WGGN and WRLM will get a lot of cash.
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post #8301 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post
Why can't the stations that currently occupy these channels (WKYC on 17 and WBNX on 30) stay where they are? Seems like a lot of expense for nothing. Only the above 36 stations should have to move. If Ch. 19 opens up as a Cleveland frequency, WOIO should go there.

This whole repack process makes no sense at all!
Absolutely!
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post #8302 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 01:35 PM
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If they didn't move them all around on the dial, then many many more stations would have had to go off the air or to VHF.

Remember that these digital assignments were made 20 years ago and put in the gaps between the analog stations that existed then. So they are not even close to being optimally laid out. By shuffling them around, you can fit many more stations within the now-available channels.

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Absolutely!
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post #8303 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 01:41 PM
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PURE BASELESS CONJECTURE:

Corporations have been buying and selling TV stations for years - the spectrum auction does not change that trade.

(Again, PURE CONJECTURE!):

Someone (perhaps even CBS itself) buys WQHS (a nicnac Univision would up with when they bought the Home Shopping OTA TV stations - and have little use for in one of the smallest Hispaphone markets in the country), and puts CBS on 61.1 and CW on 61.2. RF 10 goes to someone else, perhaps donated as a tax loss to someone, perhaps sold to someone who wants a ticket to ride on cable and satellite in the Cleveland market.
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post #8304 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 01:43 PM
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I’m still questioning if KDKA goes to 23 or stays on 25. I can’t find evidence to support either way. WTOO-CD is going to 22, and WGPT is going to 26, but it’s okay if KDKA is adjacent to either of these. It’s bugging me. I’m dying to know… then I can determine if WVPX stays or goes away. I know WVPX wanted to sell.
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post #8305 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post
Raycom could have kept RF28 if they wanted to, and sold 10 (though they would have gotten relatively little for it) since they are intent on channel-sharing. They probably would have gotten enough enough for 10 to pay for the new encoder at least.

Then one of the religious stations maybe could have gone to 10, which would have been way better than the low-VHF.

Though if this had happened, one of the UHF's that's staying would have likely gone away or to low-VHF.
The FCC should have taken the repack as an opportunity to eliminate the problem Ch. 10 in Cleveland has made. It obviously was done in blindness to the Canadian allocations if not then the program that allocated Ch. 10 to Cleveland was faulty. Now that I know it was done by a computer program and not a human being.
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post #8306 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 01:46 PM
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I doubt CBS would want an O&O in a market the size of Cleveland.

Even if this happened, why do you think WOIO would go away? Also WUAB will also be occupying RF10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsthemultipath! View Post
PURE BASELESS CONJECTURE:

Corporations have been buying and selling TV stations for years - the spectrum auction does not change that trade.

(Again, PURE CONJECTURE!):

Someone (perhaps even CBS itself) buys WQHS (a nicnac Univision would up with when they bought the Home Shopping OTA TV stations - and have little use for in one of the smallest Hispaphone markets in the country), and puts CBS on 61.1 and CW on 61.2. RF 10 goes to someone else, perhaps donated as a tax loss to someone, perhaps sold to someone who wants a ticket to ride on cable and satellite in the Cleveland market.
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post #8307 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post
I suspect Erie gets 26-27-28, and KDKA stays on 25. WKBN/WYTV channel share on 31. WVPX sticks around on 22.
I’m leaning toward the scenario where WYTV does NOT pair up with WKBN. If that occurs, then KDKA will move to 23, which will accommodate WYTV being on 26 and WVPX will be off the air like they desired to. I don’t think it’s a given that 26 goes to Erie.
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post #8308 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post
The FCC should have taken the repack as an opportunity to eliminate the problem Ch. 10 in Cleveland has made. It obviously was done in blindness to the Canadian allocations if not then the program that allocated Ch. 10 to Cleveland was faulty. Now that I know it was done by a computer program and not a human being.
I wouldn't blame the FCC. If WOIO wanted a better UHF channel, then they could've gotten one and used 10 as the pre-transition. I think Raycom is to blame.
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post #8309 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 02:01 PM
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Absolutely. They could have grabbed 31 when WJW left it in 2009. Raycom obviously didn't care.

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I wouldn't blame the FCC. If WOIO wanted a better UHF channel, then they could've gotten one and used 10 as the pre-transition. I think Raycom is to blame.
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post #8310 of 8870 Old 03-13-2017, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
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I wouldn't blame the FCC. If WOIO wanted a better UHF channel, then they could've gotten one and used 10 as the pre-transition. I think Raycom is to blame.
They were probably under the impression that the reception issues with RF 10 would go away once analog broadcasting ceased. They also had all those years to swap RF channels with WUAB, or at least move the CBS affiliation to WUAB. Whatever the case, they would be back to RF 10 after selling off the RF 28 frequency.

I can't remember if WOIO even tried to apply for digital UHF channel, but their choices for a full power broadcast would have been limited. Even if it was a low power repeater on the same tower, coverage probably would have been about the same as their RF 10, just less sensitive to interference.

Newer is not always better.
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