Cleveland, OH - HDTV - Page 280 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 364Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #8371 of 8397 Old 03-17-2017, 05:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CleCakYngMfd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NorthEast Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,980
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

Here is my VHF antenna...


Awesome! Suhhhh-Weet pic, Andrew. Neat antenna and cool clouds.

I see the spot where you were sitting on the roof.



.
CleCakYngMfd is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8372 of 8397 Old 03-17-2017, 06:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CleCakYngMfd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NorthEast Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,980
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

Is there any programming unique
to WGGN that is not also on WDLI?

I ... got an old web page telling people
that the analog signal is about to go away!
They haven't updated their "official" web
page since 2009!

Yes. Local stuff and some Pastor Rusty Sermons.

Also, there are a few Prophecy programs on WGGN that I don't have
here in the area, except the programs are available on their websites.

There were two of them briefly carried on TBN/WDLI, but TBN picked
up on the horrid HillCrap programming and dumped some
Prophecy content.


I don't know why there's not a redirect to WGGN's newer site:

www.CBMtoday.org - TV and Radio Stations

www.CBMtoday.org

They still have a Aug 2015 PDF Program Guide listed.


Discerning the Times with Pastor Rusty




.
CleCakYngMfd is online now  
post #8373 of 8397 Old 03-17-2017, 06:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CleCakYngMfd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NorthEast Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,980
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

Sadly, this is what CleCakYngMfd will need
on top of his house in order to continue receiving
WGGN, and even that won't be good enough if
he currently has issues receiving them on UHF.


I may need the ClearStream-5!






.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ClearStream5 - Large.jpg
Views:	295
Size:	134.9 KB
ID:	2033129  
CleCakYngMfd is online now  
 
post #8374 of 8397 Old 03-17-2017, 07:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
snowdog 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Aurora, OH
Posts: 1,106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 707 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
I may need the ClearStream-5!






.
I doubt that the CS-5 will catch enough of that low VHF signal. You need what Andrew has on his roof.

Depending how far you are from WGGN's transmitter, when they move to low-VHF, they will basically be the same as a low power UHF broadcast with added bonus of electromagnetic interference.

Newer is not always better.
snowdog 88 is online now  
post #8375 of 8397 Old 03-18-2017, 01:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,161
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 249 Post(s)
Liked: 120
The C5 will not work for low-VHF, not what's made for. Where did you get that idea?
ProjectSHO89 is offline  
post #8376 of 8397 Old 03-18-2017, 06:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CleCakYngMfd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NorthEast Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,980
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

The C5 will not work for low-VHF.
Not what it is made for.
Where did you get that idea?

Idea? Here:




Ok, I was dreaming that I might get away with the idea to use this model.

Perhaps home-brewed or I suspect manufacturers will be producing various Low, High, and Low/High VHF Combo antennas? Perhaps one day a C-5-Low?

I do have a NIB Radio Shark 15-1711 that I never got around to put in service, but this would be tough for an indoor setup.

How much estimated time before RF42 goes TV-dark?


.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Antennas Direct Review - CS5.JPG
Views:	278
Size:	50.8 KB
ID:	2033457  
CleCakYngMfd is online now  
post #8377 of 8397 Old 03-18-2017, 07:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,161
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 249 Post(s)
Liked: 120
You misinterpreted the above review post. "Channel 2 out in Chicago" is WBBM who transmits on VHF channel 12 which is in the design band for the C5, it's not a low-VHF station anymore.

A C5-like design (loop in front of reflector) for low-VHF could be done, you'd just need to re-scale it by a factor of around 3X-4X. Probably not something done in a reasonable manner, a 4 or 5 element low-VHF Yagi would probably be more feasible.
Michael P 2341 likes this.
ProjectSHO89 is offline  
post #8378 of 8397 Old 03-18-2017, 07:21 AM
Senior Member
 
nsa1062's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 34
I was able to pick up WKYC (at nearly 100% signal strength) when it was on RF2 with this. It is mounted on a shed in the back yard only about 10-12 feet high. Unfortunately, it is no longer made but you might be able to find a used one somewhere like EBay:

https://www.amazon.com/Channel-Maste...ct_top?ie=UTF8

WKYC on RF2 was around 9KW then and I was about 25 miles away. YMMV.

With Low VHF whatever you have must be outdoors. With WKYC/2 an attic antenna (a Yagi that covered low VHF) was very flaky and no rabbit-ear type antenna worked at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
How much estimated time before RF42 goes TV-dark?
.
Probably not until next year at the earliest. Could be as late as 2020.

Last edited by nsa1062; 03-18-2017 at 07:24 AM.
nsa1062 is online now  
post #8379 of 8397 Old 03-18-2017, 07:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Andrew K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 715 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Whatever happened to an old-fashioned yagi antenna like the one I'm using? You can't find them sold anymore because people think they're too big and ugly. But the bottom line is... they work!! Good luck trying to find one. The antenna manufacturers have a hard time trying to sell them. My yagi was purchased from some guy in Pennsylvania who happened to have an attic full of old antennas he wanted to get rid of.

A few suggestions about receiving low-VHF signals... there is a lot of stuff that causes interference and trashes the low-VHF band. Sometimes the signal could be strong enough, but the signal would be made undecodeable from interference. I've found that I get interference from light bulbs particularly the CFLs with dimmable switches and 3-way brightness capability. Even my Keurig-style coffee pot interferes with all VHF, so I unplug it when not in use. Other sources include laptops and my 42" LCD TV upstairs. I have an old radio that tunes to 50 MHz, and I can carry the radio around the house and place it next to electronics to listen for interference.

Regarding WGGN's power of 1.42 kW on low-VHF... that seems too low. Most full-power DTVs on low-VHF are at least 3 kW. I wonder if that's the transmitter output and not the ERP.
Andrew K is online now  
post #8380 of 8397 Old 03-18-2017, 10:31 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US
Posts: 15,386
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 611 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
Regarding WGGN's power of 1.42 kW on low-VHF... that seems too low. Most full-power DTVs on low-VHF are at least 3 kW. I wonder if that's the transmitter output and not the ERP.
It's ERP.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is online now  
post #8381 of 8397 Old 03-20-2017, 11:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
snowdog 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Aurora, OH
Posts: 1,106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 707 Post(s)
Liked: 75
WRAP-LP is apparently back on the air, but it's only the analog signal that covers a few blocks in Shaker Heights and not the "full power" digital signal from Parma.

Maybe I should send a message to D.T.V. LLC and see if I can get more info about the future of WRAP.

Newer is not always better.
snowdog 88 is online now  
post #8382 of 8397 Old 03-20-2017, 12:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Andrew K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 715 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
WRAP-LP is apparently back on the air, but it's only the analog signal that covers a few blocks in Shaker Heights and not the "full power" digital signal from Parma.

Maybe I should send a message to D.T.V. LLC and see if I can get more info about the future of WRAP.
After the repack, I'd suspect that WRAP wouldn't be allowed to use digital channel 32 anyways. That would present problems with what we now know about WFMJ moving to channel 33, and someone else moving to 31 possibly WKBN.
Andrew K is online now  
post #8383 of 8397 Old 03-21-2017, 03:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CleCakYngMfd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NorthEast Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,980
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked: 280
CleCakYngMfd is online now  
post #8384 of 8397 Old 03-21-2017, 03:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
snowdog 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Aurora, OH
Posts: 1,106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 707 Post(s)
Liked: 75
WEAK 41 swapped Buzzr and Sonlife around. Now they are on the right subs according to their website and TitanTV.

Is it just me or do their channels now look twice as compressed as they did before?

They still haven't fixed the PSIP issue with my Samsung.

Newer is not always better.
snowdog 88 is online now  
post #8385 of 8397 Old 03-21-2017, 03:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
snowdog 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Aurora, OH
Posts: 1,106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 707 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
How about this critter?:



I doubt it. That looks like a high-VHF antenna. You need a low-VHF antenna in order to receive RF 3. The elements need to be at least 7.8 feet long in order to capture the entire wavelength, and depending on how far you are from their transmitter, a pair or two of elements may not be enough to grab enough of the signal and overcome interference.

Newer is not always better.
snowdog 88 is online now  
post #8386 of 8397 Old 03-21-2017, 03:38 PM
Senior Member
 
nsa1062's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Something like this

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hd8200xl

Has between 5 and 6.7 dB gain at RF3

Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
How about this critter?:



















.



snowdog 88 likes this.
nsa1062 is online now  
post #8387 of 8397 Old 03-21-2017, 04:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Michael P 2341's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Parma, OH
Posts: 1,418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

I doubt it. That looks like a high-VHF antenna. You need a low-VHF antenna in order to receive RF 3. The elements need to be at least 7.8 feet long in order to capture the entire wavelength, and depending on how far you are from their transmitter, a pair or two of elements may not be enough to grab enough of the signal and overcome interference.
Actually it looks like an FM Yagi. That picture is hard to tell without having the dimensions listed. The driven element of a single channel Yagi for Ch. 3 would need to be 7.6 feet long.
Michael P 2341 is offline  
post #8388 of 8397 Old 03-21-2017, 04:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CleCakYngMfd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NorthEast Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,980
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

I doubt it. That looks like a high-VHF antenna.



It's a Low-VHF Band Ch 2-to-6 (Ch-4 centered) antenna.

At the moment, I don't want a multi-band antenna. Just a dedicated Low-VHF type for TV52 (RF3).


  • 4.5 dB gain
  • Element width:110"
  • Boom length: 59"
  • Weight: 8.5 lbs.






.

Last edited by CleCakYngMfd; 03-21-2017 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Some Specs, dude.
CleCakYngMfd is online now  
post #8389 of 8397 Old 03-21-2017, 04:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
snowdog 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Aurora, OH
Posts: 1,106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 707 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post
Actually it looks like an FM Yagi. That picture is hard to tell without having the dimensions listed. The driven element of a single channel Yagi for Ch. 3 would need to be 7.6 feet long.
Yeah, I should have known that it looked like a FM antenna.

I was slightly off on the length of the elements? I used this site to calculate the length. (63 MHz, half wave)
Online Conversion - Frequency Wavelength Calculator

Newer is not always better.
snowdog 88 is online now  
post #8390 of 8397 Old 03-21-2017, 04:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CleCakYngMfd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NorthEast Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,980
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

Yeah, I should have known that it looked like a FM antenna.


Yeah, it 'looks' like some other Yagis I've seen that are FM, but the the elements on this Low-VHF aunt Tenna are longer (see my edited previous post for specs).


.
CleCakYngMfd is online now  
post #8391 of 8397 Old 03-21-2017, 06:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,161
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 249 Post(s)
Liked: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
It's a Low-VHF Band Ch 2-to-6 (Ch-4 centered) antenna.

At the moment, I don't want a multi-band antenna. Just a dedicated Low-VHF type for TV52 (RF3).


  • 4.5 dB gain
  • Element width:110"
  • Boom length: 59"
  • Weight: 8.5 lbs.






.
If that is the Antennas Direct V4 antenna, it should do fine for channel 3.... unless you can find one of the really big Winegard or Antenna Craft low-V antennas that were discontinued a while back. If it's the V4, then it's a channel 4 Yagi hence the model name.
ProjectSHO89 is offline  
post #8392 of 8397 Old 03-21-2017, 07:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Andrew K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 715 Post(s)
Liked: 118
ATSC 1.0 is terrible on low-VHF. It's difficult getting anything to reach the decode threshold. I've never had any luck getting low-VHF DTV tropo to decode here even with that massive antenna I use. Last September, I almost had WLMB 5/40 Toledo (see photo). The signal bar was 50% with no decode... very annoying. WGGN probably won't be much better.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2340.JPG
Views:	19
Size:	82.0 KB
ID:	2041577  
Andrew K is online now  
post #8393 of 8397 Old 03-21-2017, 08:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
snowdog 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Aurora, OH
Posts: 1,106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 707 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
ATSC 1.0 is terrible on low-VHF. It's difficult getting anything to reach the decode threshold. I've never had any luck getting low-VHF DTV tropo to decode here even with that massive antenna I use. Last September, I almost had WLMB 5/40 Toledo (see photo). The signal bar was 50% with no decode... very annoying. WGGN probably won't be much better.
I've had WLMB decode here a couple times, even with my crippled antenna which lost most of it's low-VHF elements. Tropo has to be extreme for WLMB to come in, which means WTOL & WTVG have to blast in like locals along with CBET.

Last year I had WJBK from Detroit decode over WCDN, which doesn't happen too often. When I did receive WCDN on a regular basis and it disappeared, that was an indication that the tropo was up.

Newer is not always better.
snowdog 88 is online now  
post #8394 of 8397 Old Yesterday, 06:45 AM
Senior Member
 
nsa1062's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Same here, WLMB often decodes during summer tropo, but it is always glitchy (even with no thunderstorms in the area).

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
I've had WLMB decode here a couple times, even with my crippled antenna which lost most of it's low-VHF elements. Tropo has to be extreme for WLMB to come in, which means WTOL & WTVG have to blast in like locals along with CBET.

Last year I had WJBK from Detroit decode over WCDN, which doesn't happen too often. When I did receive WCDN on a regular basis and it disappeared, that was an indication that the tropo was up.
nsa1062 is online now  
post #8395 of 8397 Old Yesterday, 09:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CleCakYngMfd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NorthEast Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,980
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

If that is the Antennas Direct V4 antenna,
it should do fine for channel 3...


Indeed, it's the V4. Is it worth it at $65 delivered?



.
CleCakYngMfd is online now  
post #8396 of 8397 Old Today, 10:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Andrew K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 715 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
Indeed, it's the V4. Is it worth it at $65 delivered?



.
WGGN will be a difficult catch on channel 3. I would suggest if you buy this antenna to mount it outside and away from potential sources of interference. WGGN will be very anemic. Apparently, they're only going to have a maximum ERP of 1.42 kW, and that's aiming west (not in your direction). I find it odd that low-VHFs used to typically be 100 kW during the analog era, and now 1.42 kW is supposed to be enough. Would it hurt to up the power a bit on these low-VHFs since everyone complains about the nightmares of low-VHF?
Andrew K is online now  
post #8397 of 8397 Old Today, 02:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
snowdog 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Aurora, OH
Posts: 1,106
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 707 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
I find it odd that low-VHFs used to typically be 100 kW during the analog era, and now 1.42 kW is supposed to be enough. Would it hurt to up the power a bit on these low-VHFs since everyone complains about the nightmares of low-VHF?
Perhaps the low power output is to help minimize potential interference from tropo events when more stations end up in the low VHF band? Maybe a station, say in Fort Wayne, could end up on 2 or 4, which would make the spacing of VHF stations much closer than what was allowed back in the analog days.

Newer is not always better.
snowdog 88 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off