Cleveland, OH - HDTV - Page 292 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 568Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #8731 of 9687 Old 04-19-2017, 05:01 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakeeriemonster View Post
Anyone is Akron or Canton getting WDLI? I haven't picked it up last few days.
Working fine for me. But with the weather changing in the springtime, I notice that some channels will fade out sometimes or get weaker or stronger so it just might have been weather related. Even though they have a higher output than WEAO, I find that for me WEAO has a better signal overall with less power.

I also noticed WEKA being off for some time but it seems okay now but COZI still has the wrong screen output of 4:3.
jkeldo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8732 of 9687 Old 04-19-2017, 05:18 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakeeriemonster View Post
From the west wall position:
WKYC 74
WEWS 74
WJW 80
W16.. 60
WDLI 40 (on and off)
WOIO 74
WQDI 54
WVPX 51
WVIZ 59
WEKA 60
WUAB 78
WEAO 39 (on and off)
WCDN can't pick up
WBNX 81
WQHS 85

This is as opposed to the north wall. Hope this helps someone using similar antenna.
I have tried the Leaf antenna like yours but it is the amplified one. It generally worked well but had difficulty with WEAO at my location which is why I went with the Clearstream 4. Since you are getting decent signals, possibly an amplifier would help unless it would overload your tuner. I only have found that one tuner (Magnavox DVD/DVR which is a Funai product) would sometimes overload with weak signals but it does have a built-in attenuator to correct that. My Sony tv, Insignia tv, Zenith converter box, RCA portable, none of these have a problem with overload with an amplifier.

With the Leaf, what sometimes works better is if you lay the antenna flat (horizontal) towards the direction you want as opposed to a vertical orientation. Use your signal strength meter to see if it works better but for distant stations, it made a difference for me.
jkeldo is offline  
post #8733 of 9687 Old 04-19-2017, 05:27 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Thanks for the tip jkeido. I will try that.
lakeeriemonster is offline  
 
post #8734 of 9687 Old 04-19-2017, 06:10 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 9
I'm seeing rumors that Sinclair could be close to buying Tribune properties including local WJW. They are having a vote on ownership cap tomorrow. If it passes, deal could be complete by early May. Another company also making a bid on Tribune.
lakeeriemonster is offline  
post #8735 of 9687 Old 04-19-2017, 06:11 PM
Advanced Member
 
nsa1062's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 764
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Just checked them and I totally agree, all of Ion's SD subs look atrocious now. They didn't look this bad yesterday or the day before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
I take back what I said. I rechecked WVPX's subs and they do indeed look very compressed. More so than the WEKA subs.

What happened? Did they suck out bandwidth from each channel and give it to 23.1? I can tell you that their .2 and .3 subs did not look as bad compared to what they are now. Looks like ION needs to buy some up-to-date encoders.
nsa1062 is offline  
post #8736 of 9687 Old 04-19-2017, 06:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
snowdog 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Aurora, OH
Posts: 1,364
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 928 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakeeriemonster View Post
I'm seeing rumors that Sinclair could be close to buying Tribune properties including local WJW. They are having a vote on ownership cap tomorrow. If it passes, deal could be complete by early May. Another company also making a bid on Tribune.
I hope those rumors are false. I can already see Sinclair dropping Antenna TV and replacing it with one of their crappy networks.

Newer is not always better.
snowdog 88 is offline  
post #8737 of 9687 Old 04-19-2017, 06:49 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 9
IF this happens, WJW would probably drop Antenna and pick up American Sports Network, Comet, Charge! and possibly TBD. Antenna would probably end up on WEKA or WQDI. It would also leave room on DTV to pick up some of the Sealsco networks.
lakeeriemonster is offline  
post #8738 of 9687 Old 04-19-2017, 10:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Inundated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cleveland/Akron/Canton, OH - TV market
Posts: 4,924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Keep in mind that Tribune owns Antenna TV outright. Would Sinclair (if they are the buyer) own the network or shut it down?

I sure hope that Sinclair doesn't pick up Tribune. Sinclair is a horrible owner, and its subchannel networks have zero appeal to me.
snowdog 88 likes this.
Inundated is online now  
post #8739 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 08:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
snowdog 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Aurora, OH
Posts: 1,364
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 928 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post
Keep in mind that Tribune owns Antenna TV outright. Would Sinclair (if they are the buyer) own the network or shut it down?
I asked WJW when they were still owned by Local TV LLC if Antenna TV would be dropped if they were bought out by someone else. They told me that they would continue to carry Antenna TV regardless of the ownership.

Dropping existing diginets and making room for new ones would likely be a different story.

And yes, if WJW drops Antenna TV, it will likely be picked up by "can you see us?" DTV America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post
I sure hope that Sinclair doesn't pick up Tribune. Sinclair is a horrible owner, and its subchannel networks have zero appeal to me.
Couldn't agree more.

Newer is not always better.
snowdog 88 is offline  
post #8740 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 08:46 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 23
I wonder if WJW will ever add any more subchannels?
skiwest is offline  
post #8741 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 09:10 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiwest View Post
I wonder if WJW will ever add any more subchannels?
I'm sure if Sinclair buys them they will. The Sinclair diginets are now on WQDI low power. Seals/Dinnan has 9 diginets they want to debut soon including an animal, movie, music and fashion channel. They could use the space vacated by the Sinclair stations on DTV America. Unless, Seals/Dinnan starts buying stations? Hmm.
lakeeriemonster is offline  
post #8742 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 09:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
snowdog 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Aurora, OH
Posts: 1,364
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 928 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakeeriemonster View Post
I'm sure if Sinclair buys them they will. The Sinclair diginets are now on WQDI low power. Seals/Dinnan has 9 diginets they want to debut soon including an animal, movie, music and fashion channel. They could use the space vacated by the Sinclair stations on DTV America. Unless, Seals/Dinnan starts buying stations? Hmm.
What's the purpose of launching all these new diginets? There's hardly any stations left with adequate bandwidth to carry these networks, and replacing the popular diginets will only result in backlash to both the station and the network. Give the least popular and the Sinclair diginets to DTV America's under-powered stations.

Newer is not always better.
snowdog 88 is offline  
post #8743 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 09:30 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Sealsco.com
Direct your question to them, the field does seem crowded now.
lakeeriemonster is offline  
post #8744 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 12:16 PM
Senior Member
 
wd8kct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North Canton, Ohio
Posts: 341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post
Just checked them and I totally agree, all of Ion's SD subs look atrocious now. They didn't look this bad yesterday or the day before.
This afternoon:
23-1 Ion 7-8 Mbps
23-2 Qubo 950 Kbps
23-3 IONLife 1.25 Mbps
23-4 Shop 1.20
23-5 QVC 1.20
23-6 HSN 1.20
0x1fff 4.1 Mbps (null packets or mDTV?)

Last edited by wd8kct; 04-20-2017 at 12:36 PM.
wd8kct is offline  
post #8745 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 01:31 PM
Advanced Member
 
nsa1062's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 764
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Hmmm, 4.1 Mbps null packets (I don't think WVPX has mobile DTV, according to RabbitEars only WKYC does). Sure looks like they are making room for one or both of the displaced religious stations' main channels (in SD).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post
This afternoon:
23-1 Ion 7-8 Mbps
23-2 Qubo 950 Kbps
23-3 IONLife 1.25 Mbps
23-4 Shop 1.20
23-5 QVC 1.20
23-6 HSN 1.20
0x1fff 4.1 Mbps (null packets or mDTV?)
nsa1062 is offline  
post #8746 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 01:43 PM
Advanced Member
 
nsa1062's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 764
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Do you know if those are fixed rates? No wonder they look so bad. The artifacting is obvious even on a smaller-screen TV.

>> 23-2 Qubo 950 Kbps <<

Even WKYC's weather radar has a higher average bitrate (and it is variable/statmux).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post
This afternoon:
23-1 Ion 7-8 Mbps
23-2 Qubo 950 Kbps
23-3 IONLife 1.25 Mbps
23-4 Shop 1.20
23-5 QVC 1.20
23-6 HSN 1.20
0x1fff 4.1 Mbps (null packets or mDTV?)
nsa1062 is offline  
post #8747 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 01:49 PM
7-Year Tribulation Soon?
 
CleCakYngMfd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,699
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1288 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

This afternoon:
23-1 Ion 7-8 Mbps
23-2 Qubo 950 Kbps
23-3 IONLife 1.25 Mbps
23-4 Shop 1.20
23-5 QVC 1.20
23-6 HSN 1.20
0x1fff 4.1 Mbps (null packets or mDTV?)


The TV 23 Subs look real bad when I first checked about 2 weeks ago, so maybe they're testing the different Mbps rates?

Anyway, what is the total Mbps rate per channel?

Oh, when I last did my OTA check from my Vizio P50-C1, I didn't realize TV61 has two 1080i channels. Looks real good.

What is the maximum Mbps for low or no compression 480i SD channel?


.
CleCakYngMfd is offline  
post #8748 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 02:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Inundated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cleveland/Akron/Canton, OH - TV market
Posts: 4,924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Saw a trade report that we could know about Sinclair/Tribune by May 8, and that Sinclair may only buy "parts" of Tribune. No word if that includes either WJW or Antenna TV.

http://www.fiercecable.com/broadcast...-8-report-says

But Local TV, which first put Antenna TV on its stations, was a close semi-sister of Tribune, which eventually bought Local TV outright. So, there was no danger of Antenna TV going away.

Now? Who knows?

Here's a twist: Trade reports say Fox may block Sinclair from buying Tribune. In order, yes, so Fox can buy Tribune itself.

And that would bring WJW back in the Fox O&O fold. Heh. (Unless it peeled off WJW again. I hope not to Sinclair!)

Last edited by Inundated; 04-20-2017 at 02:36 PM.
Inundated is online now  
post #8749 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 03:25 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 9
What diginets do Fox own or have the rights to?
lakeeriemonster is offline  
post #8750 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 04:08 PM
Senior Member
 
wd8kct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North Canton, Ohio
Posts: 341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post
Do you know if those are fixed rates? No wonder they look so bad. The artifacting is obvious even on a smaller-screen TV.

>> 23-2 Qubo 950 Kbps <<

Even WKYC's weather radar has a higher average bitrate (and it is variable/statmux).
The rates do vary a little.


Last edited by wd8kct; 04-20-2017 at 04:44 PM.
wd8kct is offline  
post #8751 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 05:02 PM
Senior Member
 
wd8kct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North Canton, Ohio
Posts: 341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
The TV 23 Subs look real bad when I first checked about 2 weeks ago, so maybe they're testing the different Mbps rates?

Anyway, what is the total Mbps rate per channel?

Oh, when I last did my OTA check from my Vizio P50-C1, I didn't realize TV61 has two 1080i channels. Looks real good.

What is the maximum Mbps for low or no compression 480i SD channel?


.
Total ATSC 1 channel bandwidth is 19.39 Mbps.
Good looking MPEG-2 in 480i SD??? 2-3 Mbps???
MPEG-4 H.264(AVC) is supposed to halve that rate and H.265(HEVC) is supposed to halve that rate.
wd8kct is offline  
post #8752 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 05:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Inundated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cleveland/Akron/Canton, OH - TV market
Posts: 4,924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakeeriemonster View Post
What diginets do Fox own or have the rights to?
I think that they have a piece of Movies. That, of course, is on WBNX 55.3...
Inundated is online now  
post #8753 of 9687 Old 04-20-2017, 06:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
snowdog 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Aurora, OH
Posts: 1,364
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 928 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post
23-2 Qubo 950 Kbps
Wow! That's pretty low!

Those compression artifacts really stand out on the toons. I don't ever remember 23.2 having such a compressed picture. If anything, they should have taken bandwidth away from the shopping channels.

I could only guess that DTV America is giving 1 MBPS to each of their channels. Can anyone verify this?

Newer is not always better.
snowdog 88 is offline  
post #8754 of 9687 Old 04-21-2017, 08:43 AM
Advanced Member
 
nsa1062's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 764
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Looks like a fixed-rate encoder. Similar to what WOIO/WUAB use. A variable/statmux would jump all over the place.

WKYC's weather radar varies from under 1MB/sec (mainly when they are showing the radar screens) and can peak as high as 3 or 4 Mbps during the PSA's they show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post
The rates do vary a little.

nsa1062 is offline  
post #8755 of 9687 Old 04-21-2017, 08:49 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US
Posts: 15,574
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 858 Post(s)
Liked: 255
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA
That's weird. Every other time I've looked at an ION station, I've always seen variable bitrate. You do have averaging turned off in TSReader, right?

- trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #8756 of 9687 Old 04-21-2017, 11:20 AM
Senior Member
 
wd8kct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North Canton, Ohio
Posts: 341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
That's weird. Every other time I've looked at an ION station, I've always seen variable bitrate. You do have averaging turned off in TSReader, right?

- trip
Other channels show greater variation in bitrate. On some you can see how the bitrate of the subchannels mirror the main channel. Don't see an averaging setting on the active PID window. This is version 2.8.46a.
-Ed
wd8kct is offline  
post #8757 of 9687 Old 04-21-2017, 11:36 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US
Posts: 15,574
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 858 Post(s)
Liked: 255
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post
Other channels show greater variation in bitrate. On some you can see how the bitrate of the subchannels mirror the main channel. Don't see an averaging setting on the active PID window. This is version 2.8.46a.
-Ed
View > Chart > Settings > Real-time Charting should be checked.

I'll post what I'm seeing on WPXW when I get home.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #8758 of 9687 Old 04-21-2017, 04:10 PM
Senior Member
 
wd8kct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North Canton, Ohio
Posts: 341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
View > Chart > Settings > Real-time Charting should be checked.

I'll post what I'm seeing on WPXW when I get home.

- Trip
I'm using the crippleware version of the application so that setting is not available.
wd8kct is offline  
post #8759 of 9687 Old 04-21-2017, 05:15 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US
Posts: 15,574
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 858 Post(s)
Liked: 255
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post
I'm using the crippleware version of the application so that setting is not available.
Ah.

I'd have posted a picture of WPXW but the plot is moving so fast that only 10 seconds at a time will fit on screen. I forget how to make that slower.

In any case, this looks different from what I remember last time I saw an ION signal. It definitely looks like the bitrates have been turned down. The max bitrates for the SD channels seem to be about half what they used to be. The HD seems like it's capped at 9 Mbps, or at least, not going above it very frequently. Previously it would go up past 11.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #8760 of 9687 Old 04-22-2017, 11:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Michael P 2341's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Parma, OH
Posts: 1,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post
Keep in mind that Tribune owns Antenna TV outright. Would Sinclair (if they are the buyer) own the network or shut it down?

I sure hope that Sinclair doesn't pick up Tribune. Sinclair is a horrible owner, and its subchannel networks have zero appeal to me.
They can't be any worse than Tribune. It really ticked me off when FOX 8 "News" carried stories which were no more than promotional fluff for WGN original shows such as "Salem". The sad thing is, not only were these news "stories" not news, the program being promoted ran in the same time slot in competition with Fox 8 News at 10.
Michael P 2341 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off