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Old 06-09-2009, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rRooster View Post

I'm in geneva, ohio. I want to put a rooftop antenna up to try to get some digital stations. I could do a antenna about 25ft from ground on a 2 story house. Is it worth my while? Will I be able to pull in anything?

rRooster, We are as sadly neglected area up here as we are far enough away from the Cleveland farm well out of range from Akron & below the ridge, & no secondary market... the stock answer was 'get cable'.

You might try to get Erie or Y-Town, though you are officially in the Cleveland DMA, do you pull in Analog, & how well?

I'm curious on what you would get out there, you would likely need a rotor & amp too.
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Old 06-09-2009, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

: There is nothing to the south to be protected.

Adjacent-channel protection for WTRF/7 and WTOV/9? Otherwise, don't have a clue why WJW's signal to the south is so restricted (10.3 kW). You would think a N-S figure-8 pattern would make the most sense. Unless the FCC TV Query data is wrong.

There could be some WJW reception problems for some people south of Cleveland come Friday, especially if they are using indoor rabbit ears (which don't seem to work all that great for low-powered VHF digitals like WOIO). We'll see in a few days.
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Old 06-09-2009, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by skyhi14 View Post

Thank you AVS gods for starting this thread. The non-stop TWC bickering on the other thread was too much for me.

I'm anxiously waiting for WVIZ to fire up their new antenna...I just did a scan and its not turned on yet.I'll be checking daily and will post if I have success.

Me too, nice guys but they do love their cable!

Well WVIZ is a disappointment, not recieving well off my attic antenna.

BTW why are they using 26.3, 26.4, 26.5, 26.6, & 26.9 instead of starting at 26.1? Also the Sony mapped in 26.12 & 26.13 after 26.9... strange.

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Originally Posted by Tim Lones View Post

Which is where what is called a HH-(Horizon to Horizon) motor comes in,,



I do apologize if the topic is straying too far from OTA..Just wanted to present another option for folks..

NP, I did a bit of research into this, I'm interested, about 3-4 bills to get you going??

& no monthlys thereafter?... since I have such sparce choice & poor reception here, I might look into this.
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Old 06-09-2009, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rRooster View Post

I'm in geneva, ohio. I want to put a rooftop antenna up to try to get some digital stations. I could do a antenna about 25ft from ground on a 2 story house. Is it worth my while? Will I be able to pull in anything?

Go to tvfool.com, and enter your address. That will give you a very good idea the signal strengths at your location. TV Fool takes terrain, transmitter power, distance, bearing, etc. into account, and it is very accurate (much better than antennaweb).

EDIT: Checking Geneva in tvfool, Bismarck's reply nailed it, all of the Cleveland signal are very weak, 2-edge reception. WOIO looks totally hopeless. It shows a couple Erie stations being stronger (but knowing Erie, they may not be really at full power).
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Old 06-09-2009, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post

There could be some WJW reception problems for some people south of Cleveland come Friday, especially if they are using indoor rabbit ears (which don't seem to work all that great for low-powered VHF digitals like WOIO). We'll see in a few days.

My gut feeling is that WJW will be fine, for example, for the Akron area. I'd be surprised if folks north of downtown Akron would have many problems with it.

WOIO is more tricky without outdoor antennas. Right now, oddly enough, I'm getting a solid signal out of WKYC-DT's soon-to-be-dead RF 2 allocation with just rabbit ears (!!!), but not a sign of WOIO-DT.

I'd say whoever decided to stay on RF 10 for WOIO should be fired, but since they work for Raycom Media, they probably got a bonus for saving the company UHF electric bills...
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Old 06-09-2009, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post

EDIT: Checking Geneva in tvfool, Bismarck's reply nailed it, all of the Cleveland signal are very weak, 2-edge reception. WOIO looks totally hopeless. It shows a couple Erie stations being stronger (but knowing Erie, they may not be really at full power).

Aside from WOIO's problems in general, wouldn't Geneva be a prime location for CFPL's across the lake signal to cause it problems? I'm trying to remember the locations, historically, where CFPL came in with a decent antenna back in the day.
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Old 06-09-2009, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

BTW why are they using 26.3, 26.4, 26.5, 26.6, & 26.9 instead of starting at 26.1? Also the Sony mapped in 26.12 & 26.13 after 26.9... strange.

Because they aren't, down here where they can actually be received.

25.1, 25.2, 25.3, 25.4 - Main PBS/HD, Ohio Channel, World, and Create
25.9 - CRRS (audio from Cleveland Sight Center's Radio Reading Service)
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Old 06-09-2009, 09:51 PM
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OK, my Zenith CECB had picked up "10-1", which indeed is WOIO-DT. A quick EZ Add scan brought 19-1 and 19-2 back into place.

I'm getting great local reception tonight, including the normally hard to catch WKYC and WOIO.
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

Aside from WOIO's problems in general, wouldn't Geneva be a prime location for CFPL's across the lake signal to cause it problems? I'm trying to remember the locations, historically, where CFPL came in with a decent antenna back in the day.

CFPL would probably come in like gangbusters in Geneva, as it's almost due south, right across the lake from London (looks like less than 100 miles, almost all over water). Geneva is also in WOIO's sharp null to protect CFPL.

rRooster probably has a better shot at Erie or maybe Youngstown than Cleveland, although those won't be easy either.
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post

i checked out lyngsat.com and there are a ton of channels. even ones like discovery channel wich would be great. heres the thing, i have 2 dish 500 and i know i would need new lbns for them. what i dont understand are all the different things on lyngsat.com. under the sat row there are amc and galaxy and more. what does that mean? are they diff frquencies or are they actual sats you need to pick up those channels

Make sure you only look at FTA channels. Some listings on lyngsat are encrypted channels.
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:06 AM
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WVIZ is coming great with my attic antenna in Copley Township. A manual rescan put them in and signal strength is good. No pixelating.
No improvement on Channel 3 though
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Old 06-10-2009, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by HDRoberts View Post

Make sure you only look at FTA channels. Some listings on lyngsat are encrypted channels.

Here's another FTA List-Gives some good advice on how to get started and simplifies what channels one is likely to get with FTA (Ku-Band)

http://www.ftalist.com/

This channel list is not nearly as complicated as Lyngsat..Thing I want to stress is, any of these channels could disappear at any time..
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:12 AM
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thanks for the info everyone. I realize it seems like a rooftop antenna w/ a rotor is probably my only legitimate choice in geneva. I have DirecTV as my main source. I'm really just interested in seeing what i can pick up for fun. It seems I might have a shot at canada, erie, youngstown, cleveland. I have a pretty tall two story house and not many trees to block the sky. I'm figuring I can pry get it about 25 feet up maybe a touch higher. Willing to put about $500 into the project.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post

CFPL would probably come in like gangbusters in Geneva, as it's almost due south, right across the lake from London (looks like less than 100 miles, almost all over water). Geneva is also in WOIO's sharp null to protect CFPL.

As I figured, since I know you can get what I assume is now the former radio sister station of channel 10, CFPL-FM 95.9, like a local along the Lake Erie shoreline in Ohio.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by rRooster View Post

thanks for the info everyone. I realize it seems like a rooftop antenna w/ a rotor is probably my only legitimate choice in geneva. I have DirecTV as my main source. I'm really just interested in seeing what i can pick up for fun. It seems I might have a shot at canada, erie, youngstown, cleveland.

I know folks in Erie get a very good shot at analog 31, the Woodstock ON second transmitter for Toronto-based CityTV. CBC on 40 also comes in without even a decent antenna. You're a bit further south, but I bet you'd get those channels and one or two other Canadian stations with a rooftop antenna/rotor combo.

I think at least one of those stations is in digital now, but I bet the power is too low to make it across the lake. Canada's digital transition is well behind ours, and I think there's only one digital station in London. Most are in the large markets like Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, etc...

Good luck with the Erie digitals. They're in flux, and even full power stations like WJET/24's digital may not make it to Geneva. WICU/12 shut off its analog on Monday and will be back on 12 (digitally) on Friday.

Good luck to you! I'd love to hear how it works out for you, if you go that route.
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post

There could be some WJW reception problems for some people south of Cleveland come Friday, especially if they are using indoor rabbit ears (which don't seem to work all that great for low-powered VHF digitals like WOIO). We'll see in a few days.

In hindsight, I think problems receiving WOIO is less about receiving WOIO, but trying to get an indoor antenna to receive both WOIO and WKYC. It took me a while to get to that point, but then I had to move the indoor antenna from the attic and gave up on WKYC. From what I've read WWJW shouldn't be a problem as they'll have a stronger signal.
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post

Adjacent-channel protection for WTRF/7 and WTOV/9? Otherwise, don't have a clue why WJW's signal to the south is so restricted (10.3 kW). You would think a N-S figure-8 pattern would make the most sense. Unless the FCC TV Query data is wrong.

There could be some WJW reception problems for some people south of Cleveland come Friday, especially if they are using indoor rabbit ears (which don't seem to work all that great for low-powered VHF digitals like WOIO). We'll see in a few days.

If adjacent channel protection was an issue with ATSC digital, then WJW & WBNX would not have been able to be on 30 & 31 at the same time only 1 mile apart in the "farm".
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

If adjacent channel protection was an issue with ATSC digital, then WJW & WBNX would not have been able to be on 30 & 31 at the same time only 1 mile apart in the "farm".

Co-located stations can be adjacent. It's stations with distance between them that are the problem.

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Old 06-10-2009, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

Aside from WOIO's problems in general, wouldn't Geneva be a prime location for CFPL's across the lake signal to cause it problems? I'm trying to remember the locations, historically, where CFPL came in with a decent antenna back in the day.

Back in the 60's I had family in Conneaut. They got CFPL like a local station, and WICU12 from Erie was their other "local". All the Cleveland stations (3, 5, & 8, no UHF) came in snowy and only with the use of a large outdoor antenna that looked like some old bed springs.

Back home (in Euclid) CFPL was as strong as a local during many summer days. (I can even recall persons and places from London, Ontario from watching CFPL)

So just about everywhere along the Lake Erie shoreline east of Cleveland got CFPL like a local, if not all year at least in the summertime.
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Co-located stations can be adjacent. It's stations with distance between them that are the problem.

- Trip

Well then that explains the southward protection on WJW-DT/rf 8. Thanks to Wheeling/Steubenville staying on 7/9 that's 2 signals that need protection.
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post

Go to tvfool.com, and enter your address. That will give you a very good idea the signal strengths at your location. TV Fool takes terrain, transmitter power, distance, bearing, etc. into account, and it is very accurate (much better than antennaweb).

EDIT: Checking Geneva in tvfool, Bismarck's reply nailed it, all of the Cleveland signal are very weak, 2-edge reception. WOIO looks totally hopeless. It shows a couple Erie stations being stronger (but knowing Erie, they may not be really at full power).

How is WKBN-DT for Geneva? According to their coverage map they reach the Lake Erie shoreline all the way from Conneaut to the near-west side of Cleveland. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html The only fly in the ointment would be terrain obstructions (Lake County suffers from this, blocking Youngstown & Akron signals). I believe that obstruction is in Kirtland Hills around Little Mountain Rd., so you may be in the clear for Youngstown. If you are real lucky, you may also snag WFMJ and soon WYTV once they increase their power.
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post

Go to tvfool.com, and enter your address. That will give you a very good idea the signal strengths at your location. TV Fool takes terrain, transmitter power, distance, bearing, etc. into account, and it is very accurate (much better than antennaweb).

EDIT: Checking Geneva in tvfool, Bismarck's reply nailed it, all of the Cleveland signal are very weak, 2-edge reception. WOIO looks totally hopeless. It shows a couple Erie stations being stronger (but knowing Erie, they may not be really at full power).

I like the setup of tvfool, over Antenna web, however the information I got on TV fool just don't cut it.. I should be receiving all cleveland with a set top antenna??.. LOL noo way!!

I really cannot get a lock on Erie, but have sometimes picked up weak heartbeats on 58 & 22.. no picture though.
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

How is WKBN-DT for Geneva? According to their coverage map they reach the Lake Erie shoreline all the way from Conneaut to the near-west side of Cleveland. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html The only fly in the ointment would be terrain obstructions (Lake County suffers from this, blocking Youngstown & Akron signals). I believe that obstruction is in Kirtland Hills around Little Mountain Rd., so you may be in the clear for Youngstown. If you are real lucky, you may also snag WFMJ and soon WYTV once they increase their power.

True & sadly no Youngstown here, Antenna Web/ TV Fool, & the FCC's charts are totally misleading up here.

I can see 'Little Mountain' from here, perhaps true but I know someone in Kirtland running an Amplified Omni, & not able to pick up Youngstown or WBNX for that matter.
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

As I figured, since I know you can get what I assume is now the former radio sister station of channel 10, CFPL-FM 95.9, like a local along the Lake Erie shoreline in Ohio.

Huh??

Seems over the years the FM signals have diminished too, I bet there is an FM trap on my antenna as one of the few stations I pick up on it is WKKY in Geneva which is opposite the antenna's direction.
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

Because they aren't, down here where they can actually be received.

25.1, 25.2, 25.3, 25.4 - Main PBS/HD, Ohio Channel, World, and Create
25.9 - CRRS (audio from Cleveland Sight Center's Radio Reading Service)

Yes but when the signal fades the set reverts from 25.1 to 26.3 (no signal).
25.4 to 26.6 ect... this is more annoying than weak analog.

Bottom line on 25, I get a 40-50% signal on my outdoor antenna with pixelization. upstairs on my 140 mile attic setup 10-20% with occasional spikes to capture a pixelized picture... what disappointment, I was expecting better than WOIO.
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

True & sadly no Youngstown here, Antenna Web/ TV Fool, & the FCC's charts are totally misleading up here.

I can see 'Little Mountain' from here, perhaps true but I know someone in Kirtland running an Amplified Omni, & not able to pick up Youngstown or WBNX for that matter.

Aren't you in Lake County? My comments were for rRooster out in Geneva. I realize that Geneva is on Lake County's doorstep, however Geneva is at a different angle to Youngstown, Little Mountain is southwest of there while Youngstown is southeast.

Forget using amplified omni's, the over modulation the amps cause wipe out any benefit. Your friend on Little Mountain would have better luck with an unamplified corner reflector or bow-tie UHF antenna on a rotor.
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:14 PM
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This would be my first antenna in this location so I don't have any analog info to go from. When I look at my exact location in tv fool I get mid 30 db ratings for erie locals, everything else is lower. think that is enough to pull a digital signal? or is this pry not gonna be worth it at all?
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:20 PM
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WKYC-DT is up!
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:30 PM
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WKYC-DT is up!

Yep! 98% signal quality level here in Salem on my Dish Vip 622 receiver.
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:37 PM
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Well, that was quick! WKYC is gone now.
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