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Local HDTV Info and Reception > Cleveland, OH - HDTV
Michael P 2341's Avatar Michael P 2341 09:42 PM 12-19-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

My bad it was Polish, I think that episode was shot around West 14th.

I was thinking they just overlayed another name on the Goodtime, I was on it in '73 & the flats stunk, the water was murky brown.

Likely the Lake County Scene wasn't filmed out here, all those episodes sound familiar, she claimed her car was in them, I'm wondering if anything was edited out for the DVD's?

They showed the Pay phone dial in the Two on the House Episode, & I believe the Phone was in the 486 exchange, they did not attempt to cover the number up.

There was a '56 Chevy used in "Welcome to the Wedding" with what looks to me like legitimate Ohio license plates that you can clearly read on the DVD. At the time the letter/number combinations were unique to the county where the plates were issued. Not only were the plates legitimate to Ohio, but to Cuyahoga County as well (2 letters first starting with letters A through P. (R was Lake County, S was Ashtabula). Today license plate numbers would be hidden due to identity theft protection, but a plate from '62 would be hard to match to it's original owner. It's not like they had databases online from back then. Microfilm, perhaps.

BTW: I may have used that payphone when I was a kid! 486 was one of the exchanges in the Euclid Beach neighborhood. There was a fake phone booth used in Welcome to the Wedding, it was placed in clear view of the old Cleveland Stadium. There were no wires connected and the glass was removed - you can see thew wind blow the pages of the phone book that was supposedly inside the booth.

Bismarck440's Avatar Bismarck440 03:36 AM 12-20-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

There was a '56 Chevy used in "Welcome to the Wedding" with what looks to me like legitimate Ohio license plates that you can clearly read on the DVD. At the time the letter/number combinations were unique to the county where the plates were issued. Not only were the plates legitimate to Ohio, but to Cuyahoga County as well (2 letters first starting with letters A through P. (R was Lake County, S was Ashtabula). Today license plate numbers would be hidden due to identity theft protection, but a plate from '62 would be hard to match to it's original owner. It's not like they had databases online from back then. Microfilm, perhaps.

What season was that episode from?

Believe the S prefix (at least the beginning of the S) was from Lake County, we were issued the SF prefix upon moving up here & was issued in Mentor. T & V were Ashtabula County issues, I have an old book that explained where all the prefixes were issued (reason why they likely went to County Stickers for transients). Though even before we moved up to Lake County, we would get our plates up here after my mom was issued the PP prefix (ticked my mom off), the Registar would charge extra for a different prefix during it's run, though it's where the plates were sold & not the residence of ownership back then, for some reason we had Hamilton County issues in 1973 (Alpha Suffix).

Even in the movies, they usually use phony plates, though in the movie Street Kings (which took place in LA), a car with Ohio Plates came toward the camera in a street scene & they were legit #'s (they sign releases for that kind of thing?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

BTW: I may have used that payphone when I was a kid! 486 was one of the exchanges in the Euclid Beach neighborhood.

Cool, & no 555-2368 was even put over the dial , .. someone likely currently has that phone #.

BTW, when is Bounce lighting up? I thought the prior start date was Sept 25th, so I was thinking Christmas?
Michael P 2341's Avatar Michael P 2341 07:05 AM 12-20-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

What season was that episode from?

Believe the S prefix (at least the beginning of the S) was from Lake County, we were issued the SF prefix upon moving up here & was issued in Mentor. T & V were Ashtabula County issues, I have an old book that explained where all the prefixes were issued (reason why they likely went to County Stickers for transients). Though even before we moved up to Lake County, we would get our plates up here after my mom was issued the PP prefix (ticked my mom off), the Registar would charge extra for a different prefix during it's run, though it's where the plates were sold & not the residence of ownership back then, for some reason we had Hamilton County issues in 1973 (Alpha Suffix).

Even in the movies, they usually use phony plates, though in the movie Street Kings (which took place in LA), a car with Ohio Plates came toward the camera in a street scene & they were legit #'s (they sign releases for that kind of thing?)



Cool, & no 555-2368 was even put over the dial , .. someone likely currently has that phone #.

BTW, when is Bounce lighting up? I thought the prior start date was Sept 25th, so I was thinking Christmas?

I got color bars on what is going to be Bounce with a moving cursor!

I forgot about "T" plates, they were mainly Geauga County. I guess some "S" leaked into Lake County since Ashtabula was probably even more sparely populated than it is today. I just thought it was cool that authentic numbers were seen (both the phone number and the license plates). The payphone number probably had the last 4 digits in the 98xx or 99xx range. I had a suspicion that long distance operators needed a way to quickly identify a payphone, otherwise someone could answer a ringing payphone and accept the charges without actually paying anything.
Bismarck440's Avatar Bismarck440 01:31 PM 12-20-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I got color bars on what is going to be Bounce with a moving cursor!

I forgot about "T" plates, they were mainly Geauga County. I guess some "S" leaked into Lake County since Ashtabula was probably even more sparely populated than it is today. I just thought it was cool that authentic numbers were seen (both the phone number and the license plates). The payphone number probably had the last 4 digits in the 98xx or 99xx range. I had a suspicion that long distance operators needed a way to quickly identify a payphone, otherwise someone could answer a ringing payphone and accept the charges without actually paying anything.

I had ot about what the Geauga issues were (Though you also forgot the Q which also was Cuyahoga County) I have my book packed but a site with the prefixes: Ohio County Vintage License Plate Codes (Actually the plates we had for '73 were Butler County issues)

I always thought that Payphones had the high suffix for dialing speed, but you are likely correct & it was a 9xxx #... never thought of that was a way for operators to ID Payphones, but that makes sense.

That cursor seems to be 'bouncing' all over the screen.
Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA 07:53 PM 12-20-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmking12370 View Post

I am curious to see what our resident expert thinks about this war of words.

Me? I don't think I've ever seen such strong language from a filing like this.

- Trip
Bismarck440's Avatar Bismarck440 11:10 AM 12-22-2011
Was out looking @ TV's again, one of the sales people were telling me about the braodcast refresh rate being typically @ 48hz, thus having a 60hz is good enough for broadcast only if going up to BluRay 3D would you need beyond 60. Where he also stated that typical cinema is @ 24hz, & normally a person could not detect any motion blur in a theater.

I've never thought about the refresh, I was thinking standard broadcast would be about 60hz, true? (thus making 120hz overkill, I really don't want to mess with 3D).
JJkizak's Avatar JJkizak 01:32 PM 12-22-2011
The 120/240 HZ refresh rate is supposed to be less blurry on waterfalls, leaves and fast moving stuff. Most people I have talked to don't see much difference. My set is 6oHZ and live broadcasts and bluray's stuff is solid. The SD stuff is where a lot of the problems are with spidering and banding and fast moving items because they are using a reduced bitrate. Some of the HD commercials have banding (low bitrate being transmitted) plus now they are resorting to the in between pixel ratio so that in HD the people are somewhat fat and in SD they are somewhat thin taking "stretchovision"to new levels of sofistication.
JJK
rluyster's Avatar rluyster 08:01 PM 12-22-2011
For those of you in the region who can receive WTOV, ch.9, Steubenville:

From WTOV's website:

"WTOV9 to launch Me-TV Ohio Valley, a new digital classic television network on Channel 9.2 in the Ohio Valley"

http://www.wtov9.com/news/entertainm...classic/nF7G9/
Bismarck440's Avatar Bismarck440 01:33 AM 12-23-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

The 120/240 HZ refresh rate is supposed to be less blurry on waterfalls, leaves and fast moving stuff. Most people I have talked to don't see much difference. My set is 6oHZ and live broadcasts and bluray's stuff is solid. The SD stuff is where a lot of the problems are with spidering and banding and fast moving items because they are using a reduced bitrate. Some of the HD commercials have banding (low bitrate being transmitted) plus now they are resorting to the in between pixel ratio so that in HD the people are somewhat fat and in SD they are somewhat thin taking "stretchovision"to new levels of sofistication.
JJK

So what you are saying is, that it's the set & not the broadcast? From this salespersons point of view the technology really isn't there to take full advantage of 60hz, let alone 120hz, so all is overkill. Jist as HD broadcasts are really 720P, not 1080p, so unless you have Bluray, you are never going to see the difference there either. Then IO was taking this as the set is upconverting the broadcast from 48hz to 60 hz.... in a nutshell it's only going to be as good as it's weakest link.
toby10's Avatar toby10 03:06 AM 12-23-2011
Bismarck,
What type and size panels are you looking at?
I’d suggest you ask the store to feed 480/SD content to all the displays for comparison. Much of your viewing will be 480/SD and HDTV’s can vary greatly in how well they display SD content.

A few general points from when I was first looking into HD panels….
- Broadcast HD is either 720p or 1080i
- Viewing 720p/1080i vs 1080p, on smaller sets (say 40” and below) sitting at normal viewing distances you could not tell the difference between them
- Higher artificial refresh rates are mostly to compensate for display issues, like motion blur inherent with LCD displays
- 24hz/fps is really a red herring, LCD panels cannot display 24fps natively anyway, 24fps really only makes a difference on much larger screens, even then few could tell the difference
wd8kct's Avatar wd8kct 03:48 AM 12-23-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

Was out looking @ TV's again, one of the sales people were telling me about the braodcast refresh rate being typically @ 48hz, thus having a 60hz is good enough for broadcast only if going up to BluRay 3D would you need beyond 60. Where he also stated that typical cinema is @ 24hz, & normally a person could not detect any motion blur in a theater.

I've never thought about the refresh, I was thinking standard broadcast would be about 60hz, true? (thus making 120hz overkill, I really don't want to mess with 3D).

I believe the only frame rates you'll run into with over-the-air DTV are:
1080 line interlaced 30 frames/sec consisting of 540 line fields sent 60 times/sec (HD)
720 line progressive 60 frames/sec (HD)
480 line interlaced 30 frames/sec (SD)
the 30 and 60 fps are actually 29.97 Hz and 59.94 Hz rounded up...

I think you'll find some 1080p60 on satellite, Blu-Ray and video games but it requires too much bandwidth for the over-the-air channel with the current video compression system...

I wouldn't write off 120 Hz as useless... the increased display frame rate allows the digital creation of extra frames that allow motion smoothing... especially noticeable on filmed content such as animated shows... -Ed
JJkizak's Avatar JJkizak 06:19 AM 12-23-2011
Bismarck440:
What I am saying is let your eyes do the talking. My sets are Sony XBR2 & XBR6 and 46" & 40" 1080P. These sets are getting hard to find unless you jump to 3D. The occasional 3D broadcasts of programs on non 3D sets (Chuck being one) looked really good to me with the blue/yellow glasses. I think the last Sony standard XBR was 9 and some of them were made in Korea and had major reliability problems. You probably should check the reviews on Amazon and B & H PHOTO on the models/brands you are interested in.You might also check Consumers Reports. My sets work great on Bluray with no banding or fuzzy/blurry stuff but some HD commercials will exhibit banding. So what I am saying is that my particular LCD sets show the shortcommings of reduced bitrate OTA broadcasts.
Bismarck440's Avatar Bismarck440 01:03 PM 12-23-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

Bismarck,
What type and size panels are you looking at?
I'd suggest you ask the store to feed 480/SD content to all the displays for comparison. Much of your viewing will be 480/SD and HDTV's can vary greatly in how well they display SD content.

A few general points from when I was first looking into HD panels.
- Broadcast HD is either 720p or 1080i
- Viewing 720p/1080i vs 1080p, on smaller sets (say 40 and below) sitting at normal viewing distances you could not tell the difference between them
- Higher artificial refresh rates are mostly to compensate for display issues, like motion blur inherent with LCD displays
- 24hz/fps is really a red herring, LCD panels cannot display 24fps natively anyway, 24fps really only makes a difference on much larger screens, even then few could tell the difference

I'lm looking @ LCD with both the CCF or LED, the LED seems a bit colder of a picture. The salesperson stated that CCF has a bit better contrast though I couldn't pick that up. I taking 2 scenerios looking @ 32 to 42", really don't want anything bigger than that.

To me Bluray isn't all that impressive over DVD, though I do notice that a Bluray Player upconverts a standard DVD a bit better than a regular DVD. I currently use either S on my one set or CVI on my other set for DVD.

I think you are saying by artificial is upconverted to 60? I occasionally picked up the motion blur on my dads set (which is 60hz).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

I believe the only frame rates you'll run into with over-the-air DTV are:
1080 line interlaced 30 frames/sec consisting of 540 line fields sent 60 times/sec (HD)
720 line progressive 60 frames/sec (HD)
480 line interlaced 30 frames/sec (SD)
the 30 and 60 fps are actually 29.97 Hz and 59.94 Hz rounded up...

I think you'll find some 1080p60 on satellite, Blu-Ray and video games but it requires too much bandwidth for the over-the-air channel with the current video compression system...

I wouldn't write off 120 Hz as useless... the increased display frame rate allows the digital creation of extra frames that allow motion smoothing... especially noticeable on filmed content such as animated shows... -Ed

TY I think this sums what I was looking for (Crutchfields Site wouldn't load or was down)... Lack of bandwidth then.

I was unaware they were currently showing 3D on OTA I feel this 3D is a fad, they will never standardize it & have limited content.

I'm surprised 120hz isn't the standard now over 60, though it mad sense that if it isn't used it becomes a useless feature.
toby10's Avatar toby10 02:10 AM 12-24-2011
Well, no, I mean the 120/240hz to help LCD with motion blur on 60hz input. I agree on Blu-ray not being that different over DVD on smaller screens. But combine the right screen, with the right panel (particularly plasma), with the optimum seating distance, and Blu-ray is eye popping different than DVD.

BTW: Always compare NOT upconverting DVD's at the player. Often the player does not do as well with upconversion as the TV itself will do.
JJkizak's Avatar JJkizak 05:42 AM 12-24-2011
My particular Bluray player (older Panasonic) when upconverting Kelleys Heros DVD sharpens the DVD text and picture very nicely. Actually I was very surprised at the results.
JJK
Michael P 2341's Avatar Michael P 2341 02:09 PM 12-26-2011
Quote:


I think you’ll find some 1080p60 on satellite, Blu-Ray and video games but it requires too much bandwidth for the over-the-air channel with the current video compression system...

Actually on my Dish Network DVR the HD on demand is 1060p 24 fps. When their HD on demand first came out few HDTV screens could actually handle the 24 fps. There is a "test" function on the DVR the first time you order a 1060p feature to be sure your display works correctly.

Disclaimer: since I only own the DVR and not a true HDTV display I cannot say for sure how well this all works. All I know is that the HD channels blow away everything in SD even when viewed on an SDTV display.
wd8kct's Avatar wd8kct 05:15 PM 12-26-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

Actually on my Dish Network DVR the HD on demand is 1060p 24 fps.

Wonder why they're only running 24 frames per second, maybe to lower bandwidth? I used to catch occasional 625 line 25 fps PAL video on satellite backhauls, using a Sony multistandard monitor you could see the difference between the 25 and 30 Hz framerates... -Ed
Vchat20's Avatar Vchat20 08:44 PM 12-26-2011
The on demand stuff that shows up in the guide as a regular channel still comes over the sat so, yeah, probably is to reduce bandwidth. If it happens to be in the sub-menu on demand stuff (I forget the actual name for it, been a while) that stuff all comes over your net connection.
Inundated's Avatar Inundated 01:06 PM 12-27-2011
Wow, talk about off topic!
JJkizak's Avatar JJkizak 01:36 PM 12-28-2011
There is also individual input adjustments on each HDMI input. My Bluray player was comming in pretty hot (amount) on the color adjustment so a couple tweeks and everything Ok.
JJK
Michael P 2341's Avatar Michael P 2341 03:55 PM 12-28-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

Wonder why they're only running 24 frames per second, maybe to lower bandwidth? I used to catch occasional 625 line 25 fps PAL video on satellite backhauls, using a Sony multistandard monitor you could see the difference between the 25 and 30 Hz framerates... -Ed

24 fps is the native rate for feature films, the on demand is not viewable "live" off the satellite. The magically appear in the guide overnight weather you want them on your hard drive or not. It's satellite delivered, not broadband (although there is a broadband service too, but those you have to ask for and wait for the download to complete).

Back to your regularly scheduled free OTA TV discussion.
energyx's Avatar energyx 08:57 AM 12-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwar View Post



After some online shopping and consideration bought a Sony KDL-55BX520 120Hz 1080p Bravia LCD with LED backlighting yesterday at Walmart in Wadsworth. My buddy has a phone app allowing you to scan the SKU, the app checks the price on your scanned item based on your location to offer on-the-spot price comparison shopping. Got this set for $998 plus $99 for two extra years bumper to bumper warranty, plus 6.5% sales tax. This was more then I intended to spend and also larger then I thought I wanted, also was all but certain I wanted to go right to full LED.

That TV is CCFL, not LED.

From the Sony Spec page:
Display Features

Backlight Type : CCFL
Display Device : LCD


JJkizak's Avatar JJkizak 02:36 PM 12-30-2011
You mean Walmart Lied?
JJK
reckoniez's Avatar reckoniez 03:37 PM 12-30-2011
looks like Bounce will be on 43.2 and This on 43.3 the WUAB Wiki says this and the list not the map on Bounce TV Find Us Website
Michael P 2341's Avatar Michael P 2341 11:05 AM 12-31-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoniez View Post

looks like Bounce will be on 43.2 and This on 43.3 the WUAB Wiki says this and the list not the map on Bounce TV Find Us Website

Wiki! Consider the source. On my EPG Bounce is 43.3. It says Bounce, not just 43.3. Why would they swap THIS and Bounce (unless they want Bounce to show up on digital cable systems)?
reckoniez's Avatar reckoniez 11:33 AM 12-31-2011
On my Tivo Guide Data For This TV is showing on DT3 starting at 6am and 43.3 changed from *Bounce to WUABDT3 And 43.2 is Also Now WUABDT2 go to zap2it you'll see the guide data for WUABDT3 showing data for This TV starting at 6am not sure when WUABDT2 is going to change to data for Bounce that could happen sometime today or maybe tomorrow or after that due to the holiday they probably moved Bounce to 43.2 because of carriage on cable and who knows maybe eventually they are going to drop This tv like Raycom did down in Cincinnati which is going to a lp station with no cable carriage
update
looks like now on zap2it This TV will not start on DT3 Until the 3rd at 6am and looks like Bounce will not be on DT2 Until 6am on the 3rd
reckoniez's Avatar reckoniez 07:58 PM 12-31-2011
Anyone picked up a blank 8-3 and 8-4 they showed up in my channels list on my Tivo Premiere
wd8kct's Avatar wd8kct 07:56 AM 01-03-2012
Looks like Bounce TV launched this morning on 43-2... the -2, -3 swap gets Bounce an immediate position on cable?
speedyd718's Avatar speedyd718 08:29 AM 01-03-2012
hey i hope this isn't a repost, but is anyone else having reception issues with channel 5 (WEWS)? for the last week (maybe two) i've been getting a lot of break up, and it's become unwatchable at times. i'm in s.euclid. thanks for any help.
Gary16's Avatar Gary16 08:34 AM 01-03-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

Looks like Bounce TV launched this morning on 43-2... the -2, -3 swap gets Bounce an immediate position on cable?

Not on TimeWarner in Cleveland. THIS is still on 996 and the corner ID now says WUAB 43.3. AFAIK cable systems clear based on the programming, not the channel position.
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