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post #1 of 4115 Old 04-16-2009, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a new forum for comments on Cleveland OH market area (Cleveland-Akron-Canton-Mansfield) OTA (over the air) digital TV broadcasters.

(As of 3/14/12, the AVS HD Moderator has advised that the topic title has been changed to include discussion of all local HD issues from OTA, DirecTV, Dish Network, Armstrong Cable, and others, except TWC & WOW which have their own dedicated topics.)

Many thanks to toby 10 for compiling most of the following DTV information!


Cleveland OH Market Area DTV Channels

3-1 WKYC / NBC Network / www.WKYC.com
- UHF Ch. 3 (actual ch. 17.1) in 1080i, subchannel in 480i

- Sub Ch’s:
- 3-2 Weather 24/7


5-1 WEWS / ABC Network / www.NewsNet5.com
- UHF Ch.5 (actual ch. 15.1) in 720p, subchannel in 480i

- Sub Ch’s: 5-2 Live Well Network http://livewellnetwork.com/index


8-1 WJW / FOX Network / www.FOX8.com
- VHF Ch. 8 (actual ch. 8.1) in 720p

- Sub Ch’s: 8-2 Antenna TV in 480i http://www.antennatv.tv/


17-1 WDLI / Trinity B/C Network / http://www.TBN.org
-UHF Ch. 17 (actual ch. 49.1) all subchannels in 480i

-Sub Ch's:
- 17-2 The Church Channel
- 17-3 JUCE TV
- 17-4 Enlace USA
- 17-5 Smile Of A Child


19-1 WOIO / CBS Network / www.WOIO.com
- VHF Ch. 19 (actual ch. 10.1) in 1080i, subchannel in 480i

- Sub Ch’s:
- 19-2 Me TV http://metvnetwork.com/

- Akron translator on ch 24.1 & 24.2 from WVPX tower location.



- 23-1 WVPX / Ion Media Networks / http://www.ionline.tv/
- UHF / Ch. 23 (actual Ch. 23.1) in 720p, subchannels in 480i

- Sub Ch's:
- 23-2 Qubo
- 23-3 Ion Life
- 23-4 Shop-TV
- 23-5 QVC Over the Air

- 23-6 HSN
 

25-1 WVIZ / PBS Network / www.WVIZ.org
- UHF Ch. 25 (actual ch. 26.1) in 1080i, subchannels in 480i

- Sub Ch’s:
- 25-2 The Ohio Channel
- 25-3 World
- 25-4 Create (how to, DIY)
- 25-9 CRRS (audio only service for visually impaired)


39-1 WIVM-LD / Retro TV Network /www.wivmtv.com
- UHF Ch.39 (actual ch. 39.1) in 480i, subchannels in 480i

- Sub Ch's:
- 39-2 Tuff TV http://www.tufftv.com/
- 39-3 PbJ http://www.lukencommunications.com/
- 39-4 Hazen Ministries (Audio only)

 

43-1 WUAB / MyTV Network / www.My43.net
- UHF Ch. 43 (actual ch. 28.1) in 720p, subchannels in 480i

- Sub Ch’s:
- 43-2 Bounce TV www.bouncetv.com



47-1 WRLM / Religious / Tri-State Christian Television/http://www.tct.tv
-UHF Ch.47 (actual ch. 47.1) in 480i

- Sub Ch's:
- 47-2 TCT HD in 1080i
- 47-3 TCT Family in 480i
- 47-4 Fuente (Spanish) in 480i


49-1 WEAO / PBS Network / http://www.westernreservepublicmedia.org/
-UHF Ch. 49 (actual ch. 50.1) in 720p, subchannels in 480i

- Sub Ch's:
- 49-2 Fusion (Regionally produced programming. Classic Arts Showcase http://www.classicartsshowcase.org/ after 11 PM.)
- 49-3 MHZ-Worldview http://www.mhznetworks.org/mhzworldview/
- 49-4 V-Me (See Me) (Spanish language programming) http://www.vmetv.com/


55-1 WBNX / CW Network / www.WBNX.com
- UHF Ch. 55 (actual ch. 30.1) in 1080i, subchannels in 480i

- Sub Ch’s:
-55-2 Local religious programming
-55-3 THIS TV Network (MGM Studios Network) www.This.tv


61-1 WQHS / Univision Network / http://www.univision.com/
- UHF Ch. 61 (actual ch. 34.1) in 1080i, subchannels in 480i


- Sub Ch’s:

-61-3 GetTV /Sony/ http://get.tv/


68-1 WMFD / Independent / http://WMFD.com/
- VHF Ch. 68 (actual ch. 12.1) in 1080i

- Sub Ch's:
- 68.2 WOHZ-CA Local weather & WVNO-FM simulcast in 480i



DTV reference sources & other interesting websites:

General Wiki link to NE Ohio TV station info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cleveland_TV

Great resource to find what type of antenna you need:
http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

DTV Conversion Website:
http://dtv.gov/

DTV Coupon Program: Coupon applications closed July 31, 2009. The final coupons issued expired on Nov. 9, 2009.

FCC DTV Reception Maps:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/

Ohio Media Watch:
http://ohiomediawatch.com/

Cleveland OH TWC (AVS Cable DTV Discussion)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7&goto=newpost

RabbitEars:http://www.rabbitears.info/

Station Index
http://www.stationindex.com/tv/

Cleveland Classic Media (Cleveland/NE Ohio TV & Radio History)
http://clevelandclassicmedia.blogspot.com
http://clevelandmedia.boardhost.com/index.php

Northeast Ohio Airchecks (NE Ohio Radio History)
http://neoairchecks.blogspot.com/

Tropospheric Ducting Forecast For VHF/UHF Radio & TV
http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

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post #2 of 4115 Old 04-17-2009, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rluyster View Post

This is a new forum for comments on Cleveland OH market area OTA (over the air) digital television broadcasting.

Great! I suppose the opening post should include a short (but all inclusive) list of available DTV ch's, call letters, sub-ch's, etc... and then updated as ch's are added/deleted.

I suppose if anyone wants to get REAL ambitious they could supply pertinent detailed info per station regarding DTV, then added to the first page for reference. Like:
- known issues with reception (3, 19, 25)
- post June 12th DTV transition ch changes
- WVIZ's ongoing DTV tower issues
- general station links
- links to station contact info (engineering) to report problems??
- related links
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post #3 of 4115 Old 04-17-2009, 06:07 AM
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Is there a current listing for the Time Warner QAM channels in Cleveland?
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post #4 of 4115 Old 04-17-2009, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace5000 View Post

Is there a current listing for the Time Warner QAM channels in Cleveland?

Ask here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post16283468
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post #5 of 4115 Old 04-17-2009, 07:01 AM
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THANK YOU for starting a new thread. I had nearly given up on reading anything useful in the other thread because every time I came to look, there were nothing but digressions about TWC service for 10 pages. As a Dish sub, I grew weary of all the TWC stuff, glossing over that status of the next to impossible to receive 3, 19, and 25 OTA channels, as well as any other changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

I suppose if anyone wants to get REAL ambitious they could supply pertinent detailed info per station regarding DTV, then added to the first page for reference. Like:
- known issues with reception (3, 19, 25)
- post June 12th DTV transition ch changes
- WVIZ's ongoing DTV tower issues
- general station links
- links to station contact info (engineering) to report problems??

By all means, please post this info and keep it updated.
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post #6 of 4115 Old 04-17-2009, 02:33 PM
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I'm pretty much on high ground with a huge fixed UHF/VHF antenna and have no trouble with 3, 19, or 25. I do have some small issues with 49.
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post #7 of 4115 Old 04-17-2009, 09:00 PM
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Huzzah!

I noticed tonight that WUAB was a bit weak signal wise. Don't know why.
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post #8 of 4115 Old 04-18-2009, 05:32 AM
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For those of you with either Dish (E*) or Direct (D*) HD boxes with OTA tuners, can you tell the difference between the OTA HD picture and the satellite delivered HD picture for the "big 4" stations?

Currently I have only analog TV's but I also have the E* DVR 622. I cannot tell any difference on the S-video output. I was wondering how it looks to those with real HDTV screens.

BTW: I can see a big difference between anything that is true HD vs. anything SD on my analog set, that is why I rarely watch the SD locals. Even for the stations not yet on the satellite in HD (i.e. 25, 43, 55) I prefer the HD OTA feed. The only SD "local" I will tune into from time to time is WMFD (I'm too far from Mansfield to get OTA ch 12).
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post #9 of 4115 Old 04-18-2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

For those of you with either Dish (E*) or Direct (D*) HD boxes with OTA tuners, can you tell the difference between the OTA HD picture and the satellite delivered HD picture for the "big 4" stations?

I use my Dish ViP 622 to receive OTA stations. While I do not subscribe to local channels via Dish, OTA broadcasters that do not dedicate too much of their bandwidth to subchannels have far superior HD pictures relative to anything Dish broadcasts in "HD". OTOH, stations like WTRF (CBS on 7.1, FOX on 7.2 and ABC on 7.3) have horrible OTA picture quality because they spread their bandwidth too thin. WKBN (27.1) and WYFX (27.2) look okay but are not in the same league with KDKA (2.1) or WJW (8.1). KDKA and WJW have no subchannels.
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post #10 of 4115 Old 04-18-2009, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salemtubes View Post

I use my Dish ViP 622 to receive OTA stations. While I do not subscribe to local channels via Dish, OTA broadcasters that do not dedicate too much of their bandwidth to subchannels have far superior HD pictures relative to anything Dish broadcasts in "HD". OTOH, stations like WTRF (CBS on 7.1, FOX on 7.2 and ABC on 7.3) have horrible OTA picture quality because they spread their bandwidth too thin. WKBN (27.1) and WYFX (27.2) look okay but are not in the same league with KDKA (2.1) or WJW (8.1). KDKA and WJW have no subchannels.

At first, I refused to sub to Dish's locals (I live in the Cleveland antenna farm, my analog locals blew away anything E* could deliver). However I got DVR Advantage, which required having locals. I now get guide data for all my locals, both OTA and satellite delivered, including out-of-market stations (I get WKBN-DT 24/7 and that is my first choice for CBS even though I can see WOIO's transmitter out my back door). I even get guide data for the sub channels that are not carried via satellite (especially helpful for "This TV" 43.2).
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post #11 of 4115 Old 04-19-2009, 05:49 AM
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Everyone: Please fill in / edit any of this supplied info.

Also, some of you with the big ass antennas should post such info for a Cleveland DTV “Extended Area” ch list and descriptions. Ex: the Akron/Canton or Youngstown feeds. I recently noticed a ch 52 (I think) on my tuner, no clue what it is or where it came from. Moscow TV? I’m guessing the stations may be starting to boost/test DTV power, or maybe just odd atmospherics that day, I dunno.
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post #12 of 4115 Old 04-19-2009, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yespage View Post

Huzzah!

I noticed tonight that WUAB was a bit weak signal wise. Don't know why.

WUAB has been weaker than normal for me, signal-wise, for about the past month or so. I can't even get it with one of my boxes, though it may be an (indoor) antenna issue.

But before, on the same equipment, I had no problem with WUAB before. It had been one of my easier-to-receive stations.
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post #13 of 4115 Old 04-19-2009, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

WUAB has been weaker than normal for me, signal-wise, for about the past month or so. I can't even get it with one of my boxes, though it may be an (indoor) antenna issue.

But before, on the same equipment, I had no problem with WUAB before. It had been one of my easier-to-receive stations.

How are things working out for you with those channels on TWC? Let us know over in the TWC thread.
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post #14 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 05:37 AM
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I also get 17.1, 17.2, 17.3,17.4, 17.5, 49.1, 49.2, 67.1. Religous channels on 17 all SD with different pixel sizes, 49.1 full HD sometimes half ass other times, 49.2 SD with the same program content as 49.1. Canton is 67.1 SD. There were times that I re-scanned and picked up Toledo channels digitally that raised hell with the local digital channels. Had to wait for the atmospheric tunneling to go away before re-scanning back to normal. I see this as possibly being a real annoyance in the future.
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post #15 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 09:18 AM
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Hello All:
I have Time Warner Cable here in Canton and also recently installed a Motorized Free-To-Air Satellite Dish for Ku-Band. But I am still an OTA geek..Since the digital conversion, (JVC 30" HDTV) I have tried the Phillips Mant 510 Rabbit Ears and the Terk HDTVa..The Terk generally worked better but still not real well here in Southwest Canton..I see a Radio Shack Indoor Outoor antenna here:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2348191

Its an oval shaped indoor/outdoor antenna that claims to get up to 50 miles away..Has anybody seen/tried this one?


RLuyster, thanks for starting this..If I knew it would be that easy, I would have started the thread myself..
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post #16 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Lones View Post

Hello All:
I have Time Warner Cable here in Canton and also recently installed a Motorized Free-To-Air Satellite Dish for Ku-Band. But I am still an OTA geek..Since the digital conversion, (JVC 30" HDTV) I have tried the Phillips Mant 510 Rabbit Ears and the Terk HDTVa..The Terk generally worked better but still not real well here in Southwest Canton..I see a Radio Shack Indoor Outoor antenna here:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2348191

Its an oval shaped indoor/outdoor antenna that claims to get up to 50 miles away..Has anybody seen/tried this one?


RLuyster, thanks for starting this..If I knew it would be that easy, I would have started the thread myself..

Tim, antenna mileage claims are almost always a gross exaggeration. Southwest Canton is about 45 miles away from the Cleveland stations' transmitting towers in Parma. You'll need a good large outdoor antenna system for reliable reception. Winegard, Channel Master and Antennas Direct/Terrestrial Digital make antennas that are suitable to your needs.

Personally, I'd use an Antennas Direct 91XG UHF antenna (channels 14-69) and Winegard YA-1713 high band VHF antenna (channels 7-13) combined with a UVSJ along with a Winegard HDP-269 preamplifier. Your system needs to be mounted as high as possible with as few obstructions (trees, other buildings, towers, etc.) as possible between your location and Cleveland. You'll also want to consider a rotator if you're interested in stations located in other directions.
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post #17 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salemtubes View Post

Tim, antenna mileage claims are almost always a gross exaggeration. Southwest Canton is about 45 miles away from the Cleveland stations' transmitting towers in Parma. You'll need a good large outdoor antenna system for reliable reception. Winegard, Channel Master and Antennas Direct/Terrestrial Digital make antennas that are suitable to your needs.

Personally, I'd use an Antennas Direct 91XG UHF antenna (channels 14-69) and Winegard YA-1713 high band VHF antenna (channels 7-13) combined with a UVSJ along with a Winegard HDP-269 preamplifier. Your system needs to be mounted as high as possible with as few obstructions (trees, other buildings, towers, etc.) as possible between your location and Cleveland. You'll also want to consider a rotator if you're interested in stations located in other directions.

SalemTubes:
I know the best way to go is outdoors and as high up as possible..Problem being I am in a rental situation. They let me have a pole for Dish Network when we moved in 7 years ago..Since we have TWC I am using the pole for the Free-To-Air Dish..Thought about trying to stick an antenna of some sort on the end of the dish, but being there is already a motor on it, just wondering if there would be too much weight on the pole.I may try to find a way to clamp something on the roof without drilling a hole..I actually with the indoor antennas, have recieved Channel 27 out of Youngstown and sometimes 21..I mostly get 17, 45, 49 and 67..
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post #18 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 11:09 AM
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Off the beaten path but still OTA talk:

My Cleveland Media Blog has recently put up pictures of the old Channel 17, WJAN in Canton..

http://clevelandclassicmedia.blogspo...-end-week.html

A report on the WDLI-17 analog signoff, and a note on the sale of WOAC-TV

http://clevelandclassicmedia.blogspo...-pictures.html

First set of old WJAN Pictures-This post includes links to an historical set of posts I did about WJAN-TV in 2007

http://clevelandclassicmedia.blogspo...an-photos.html

Second set of pictures from WJAN..


The pictures come from Ed Thomas of North Canton..
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post #19 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Lones View Post

I have tried the Phillips Mant 510 Rabbit Ears and the Terk HDTVa..

I've had the best luck with an old 4 bay bowtie/batwing panel antenna here in North Canton... using a Radio Shack UHF inline preamp, it's mounted inside looking North thru a brick wall... all the Cleveland UHFs are usually solid... I use a 2 bay panel antenna with a Hamtronics UHF preamp for 21,27,45 Youngstown (and sometimes 33 and Pittsburgh!)... It's not unusual to get Youngstown on the North pointing antenna... I'm about 1100 feet so I think I have a height advantage over South Canton... I've seen construction plans for panel antennas on the internet, they're not too difficult to build...

Ed...

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post #20 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I added toby10's great information to the opening/introductory posting today and did a little editing and additions. Let me know if you spot any errors or have suggestions for additions. Again, many thanks go to toby10 and all the other posters who have helped to get this thread rolling!
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post #21 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rluyster View Post

I added toby10's great information to the opening/introductory posting today and did a little editing and additions. Let me know if you spot any errors or have suggestions for additions. Again, many thanks go to toby10 and all the other posters who have helped to get this thread rolling!

Looks very nice! Great job!
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post #22 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 04:16 PM
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Nice summary.

Thread added to the thread index (may take up to 12 hours to show up).
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post #23 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 04:56 PM
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Really glad to see this thread broken out - there's so much TWC stuff going on in the other thread that any antenna or OTA stuff was very hard to filter out!

Also, that's a great compilation of information I really wish I had had when I started using OTA with my Dish service to record three programs at once instead of two. Here's hoping things get easier signalwise around here once June 12 hits!

As an aside, I'm really annoyed with WKYC at the moment - they preempted Chuck tonight to air some local "ohio's journey to space" programming. Already called and emailed to register my displeasure, and let them know I'll now be getting the show from less official sources and watching the WOIO newscast. Okay, maybe I'm a little more upset than I should be...
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post #24 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice summary.

Thread added to the thread index (may take up to 12 hours to show up).

Thank you!
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post #25 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
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As an aside, I'm really annoyed with WKYC at the moment - they preempted Chuck tonight to air some local "ohio's journey to space" programming. Already called and emailed to register my displeasure, and let them know I'll now be getting the show from less official sources and watching the WOIO newscast. Okay, maybe I'm a little more upset than I should be...

Looks like WKYC is pretending to be WEWS-interrupting network programming for local crap. I hope WKYC's viewer enjoyed the show tonight. I don't care if it was in HD, even that wouldn't make it worth watching. Check out WKYC.com. On the topic about "to the moon", all the comments are about not showing Chuck. Nobody even cares about the show in Chuck's place.
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post #26 of 4115 Old 04-20-2009, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

For those of you with either Dish (E*) or Direct (D*) HD boxes with OTA tuners, can you tell the difference between the OTA HD picture and the satellite delivered HD picture for the "big 4" stations?

Well, I only reliably receive 5 and 8 OTA and through sat in HD. I also don't have the best HD set, just a 32" LCD. There is an EXTREMELY minor improvement in OA, but mostly in very dark scenes. Personally, I go with Dish locals when I don't have too many conflicts as they are so superior DVR space-wise.

One other thing: I just did my monthly OTA rescan, and found in addition to the PSIP-reprogrammed 25-1 WVIZ OTA HD channel, I found SEVEN channels listed as 26-1, -2, -3, -4, -5, -6, and -7, all listed on my Dish 622 as "DTV". What's the deal?
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post #27 of 4115 Old 04-21-2009, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by HDRoberts View Post

Well, I only reliably receive 5 and 8 OTA and through sat in HD. I also don't have the best HD set, just a 32" LCD. There is an EXTREMELY minor improvement in OA, but mostly in very dark scenes. Personally, I go with Dish locals when I don't have too many conflicts as they are so superior DVR space-wise.

One other thing: I just did my monthly OTA rescan, and found in addition to the PSIP-reprogrammed 25-1 WVIZ OTA HD channel, I found SEVEN channels listed as 26-1, -2, -3, -4, -5, -6, and -7, all listed on my Dish 622 as "DTV". What's the deal?

26-2, 26-3, 26-4, 26-9 are the WVIZ sub ch's. See the first post in this thread for details.
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post #28 of 4115 Old 04-21-2009, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDRoberts View Post

Well, I only reliably receive 5 and 8 OTA and through sat in HD. I also don't have the best HD set, just a 32" LCD. There is an EXTREMELY minor improvement in OA, but mostly in very dark scenes. Personally, I go with Dish locals when I don't have too many conflicts as they are so superior DVR space-wise.

One other thing: I just did my monthly OTA rescan, and found in addition to the PSIP-reprogrammed 25-1 WVIZ OTA HD channel, I found SEVEN channels listed as 26-1, -2, -3, -4, -5, -6, and -7, all listed on my Dish 622 as "DTV". What's the deal?

Whenever you scan for OTA locals on an E* tuner, there are times when the PSIP data is corrupted due to signal problems (too weak or multipath issues). It's possible to have the same channels mapped twice with both it's virtual channel # (i.e. 25-1) and it's RF channel (26-1). You can delete the duplicates in the menu.

"DTV" is what the E* EPG lists for any channel it cannot identify, or does not have in it's database (such as WDLI).
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post #29 of 4115 Old 04-21-2009, 07:35 PM
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I was thinking about this the other night, and wondered if anyone had any guesses - and this seemed like the best place to ask.

Will signal reception of channels in the Cleveland area CHANGE at all come June 12? I understand the WKYC/WVIZ tower is still only half built (thank you OhioMediaWatch), but other than that...

I know several channels are going to low VHF, presumably to save money. Someone should tell the Best Buys and Walmarts... they're selling plenty of UHF-only antennas that they'll get back as returns when June 12 arrives and people can't get channels.

For those of us with normal VHF-UHF antennas, is there expected to be a ton of change? Power changes? That kind of thing?

The main reason I ask is that I can get all four networks plus WVIZ - but like so many others, WOIO and WKYC are weak. I'm in western Shaker Heights, so I'm not super-close to Parma, but line of sight isn't all that many miles either. Hence, my debate is getting an amplifier or amplified antenna or not - I have signal, it's just weak, which is the textbook situation for an amp, am I right? But I don't want to go ahead with that if it might change come June 12...

sorry to be cryptic and demanding, hope that was clear enough ;P thanks!
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post #30 of 4115 Old 04-21-2009, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

Looks like WKYC is pretending to be WEWS-interrupting network programming for local crap. I hope WKYC's viewer enjoyed the show tonight. I don't care if it was in HD, even that wouldn't make it worth watching. Check out WKYC.com. On the topic about "to the moon", all the comments are about not showing Chuck. Nobody even cares about the show in Chuck's place.

I noticed that on their site... lol, I got the distinct impression from the lady at the front desk when I called that they were getting a lot of complaints. The sad thing is, Chuck isn't even good ratingswise - a 2.3 in 18-49 against weak competition? Meh...

I do wonder if the repeated 2.3 this week was affected at all by Cleveland's totally missing out on it. WKYC DOES have quite a number of people getting their signal, after all. At least the episode was huge amounts of awesome...
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