Harrisburg, PA - HDTV - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 969 Old 04-08-2010, 08:15 AM
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Just amazing after all this time Harrisburg / York area still without a station that has local High Def news cast !
I've talked to people in my area who think they do get local news ( 8 21, 27, 43) in HD.
I guess it's just stretched and they don't realize it. I've learned not to pursue the discussion any farther.
They're sure they're getting it.
I'm sure who ever is the first will add a lot of viewers. Wither they keep them or not is another thing.
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post #722 of 969 Old 04-10-2010, 05:41 PM
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How can you tell the 'casts are not HD? They fill the whole 16:9 screen don't they? (As opposed to WGAL which sits like a postage stamp in the middle.)

My Free TV streams 19 Mbps == 6000 GB/month per channel. No cellphone can do that. WHY kill off this excellent service??
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post #723 of 969 Old 04-10-2010, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaveng View Post

How can you tell the 'casts are not HD? They fill the whole 16:9 screen don't they? (As opposed to WGAL which sits like a postage stamp in the middle.)

You either have them zoomed or stretched. There are none in the area that are HD.
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post #724 of 969 Old 04-15-2010, 08:56 AM
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What's even sadder still is that after all this time, WHP is still not providing any of the syndicated shows that are available in HD, in HD. (Ellen Degeneres, Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy). Nor are they providing the audio in Dolby Digital 5.1. I guess Clear Channel is too cheap to pay for the equipment upgrades.
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post #725 of 969 Old 04-15-2010, 09:20 AM
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Clear Channel no longer owns TV stations; it sold its TV group to Newport Television.

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #726 of 969 Old 04-15-2010, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieB View Post

What's even sadder still is that after all this time, WHP is still not providing any of the syndicated shows that are available in HD, in HD. (Ellen Degeneres, Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy). Nor are they providing the audio in Dolby Digital 5.1. I guess Clear Channel is too cheap to pay for the equipment upgrades.

I read a reply a couple years ago that WHP had no plans to go to 5.1. Don't know why. I did think by now WGAL news would go HD. They seem to have been ahead of the curve with new Tech. I never thought HD news would make a difference but NBC has done a good job with thier network news broadcast.
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post #727 of 969 Old 04-17-2010, 04:46 PM
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Due to the cost of HD equipment, the local stations have not gone to 16:9 HD newscasts. WGAL and WPMT do have HD switching equipment installed so they can run a scroll or add bugs without going to 4:3. I've talked to people in the know at both stations and neither has any plans in the future to go to to HD news anytime soon.

WHP has money in their 2010 budget to add HD equipment to allow their syndicated shows to be be shown locally in HD.
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post #728 of 969 Old 04-19-2010, 07:32 PM
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Just wondering if any one else is having TVGOS problems.
I have 3 Sony DVR's that get listing via (CBS 21) analog channel 10 on Hanover Comcast, but since last Friday, the guide info says 'no listings'
I dropped a line to WHP -21, hope to get a reply.
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post #729 of 969 Old 04-21-2010, 07:18 AM
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I did drop CBS 21 a email Monday, never got a reply, but this Wednesday morning, after 4 days of no downloads, things are working and updating again.
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post #730 of 969 Old 04-21-2010, 10:02 AM
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Hi All

Moving to Etters this summer and want to find out the options from the experts.

Obviously for stations available over the air, I'll put a rig outside to pull them in @ the best quality possible.

As for cable channels, what are my best options?

If I understand correctly, FIOS TV stops just short in New Cumberland, so that is not an option.

How is the Comcast service in Central PA? Particularly concerned about Sports in HD. Is it switched?

It looks like they now have MASN-HD, MASN2-HD, Comcast Philly HD, Comcast MidAtlantic - HD, but what about FSN-Pittsburgh HD? The comcast site doesn't list the HD as available, but I believe I've seen a poster from Mechanicsburg stating that it was now available, just in time for summer baseball.

Anyone know the plans for DirecTV to add Comcast Philly now that they "in theory" can add?

Also, if anyone can post their luck with pulling in adjacent markets OTA (Altoona, B-more, Philly, etc) with what type of rig setup.

Thanks,

CLT OTA Nut
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post #731 of 969 Old 04-22-2010, 06:45 AM
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From Etown, I can pull in the Philly UHF stations but can't pull in the VHF stations with a VHF antenna pointed that way. For UHF, I am using a home brew 8 bay curtain antenna in the attic.

It is unclear what is going to happen with CSN Philly and DirecTV. Comcrap will fight to keep the loophole in effect I am sure.
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post #732 of 969 Old 04-24-2010, 04:24 PM
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.

I think WGAL's plan to setup low-power translators will create interference with other stations. For example WGTW-48 (real channel 27) will be blocked. Also WPSG-57 (32) and WTXF-29 (42) and WPPX-61 (31).

I don't understand the need to add additional translators which will block-out other stations. I am receiving VHF-8 just fine, without any problems in Lampeter PA (south of Lancaster), using plain-old rabbit ears.

My Free TV streams 19 Mbps == 6000 GB/month per channel. No cellphone can do that. WHY kill off this excellent service??
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post #733 of 969 Old 04-26-2010, 08:42 AM
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I got this from WGAL:


Thank you for your comments but they do have a bit of a narrow perspective. You should have to deal with those viewers who can no longer receive WGAL.

While you may have perfect reception in Lampeter using plain-old rabbit ears, very large numbers of analog Channel 8 viewers cannot receive our digital Channel 8. Some of them have outside antennas but most them have inside antennas. They call us daily with their complaints and demand that we do something to restore our service to them. In an effort to resolve this matter and at a substantial expense, we have increased our originally allocated power level from 5.4 kW to 7.5 kW to 8.1 kW to 14.1 kW (all power levels are Effective Radiated Power). Unfortunately, the calls and emails continue. We currently have FCC Special Temporary Authority (STA)to increase our power to 32.2 kW and are installing two new transmitters to accommodate that higher power level (at another great cost). The fact is that the STA could be rescinded and we must continue to search for answers - hence the translators.

You must more fully understand the situation, analog WGAL had 110 kW ERP but, because of the current FCC Rules and Regulations we are operating at these greatly reduced levels - so far, these power levels are simply not enough to penetrate into many peoples homes and to provide a sufficient amount of signal to make their digital TV functional. The translators are to cover areas that have been identified as problem areas and we have applied for them as is within our rights.

You live in the Harrisburg - Lancaster - Lebanon - York Market. All the other stations that you mention are in other distant markets. Please understand that there are very specific rules regarding the closeness of television stations to each other and all of our translator applications are meeting those requirements. They are permitted and they are legal applications.

Regards,
Bob Good, WGAL

My Free TV streams 19 Mbps == 6000 GB/month per channel. No cellphone can do that. WHY kill off this excellent service??
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post #734 of 969 Old 04-26-2010, 08:55 AM
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My reply (in brief):

(1) Many of the viewers are probably using UHF antennas, and WGAL should not be taking the blame for this, but instead instructing the viewer to get the proper tool (VHF rabbit ears)

(2) For long distance over 20 miles the FCC recommends rooftop antennas at 20 feet height. Again WGAL should not take the blame for viewers not using the proper tool. Recommend they get an external antenna.

(3) While the stations I listed are technically Philadelphia stations, they are also the only TBN, SOAC, ION, and Qubo affiliates available in the area. If WGAL's new translators block reception, I will not be happy. I already lost the ABC affiliate and don't want to lose any more channels.

Nor do I want to hand the Comcast Monopoly ~800 a year to restore the channels. DTV was supposed to give us more, not less.

thanks,
theaveng :-)

My Free TV streams 19 Mbps == 6000 GB/month per channel. No cellphone can do that. WHY kill off this excellent service??
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post #735 of 969 Old 04-26-2010, 09:40 AM
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Remember WGAL has been on RF channel 8 for over 60 years. All of the long time viewers likely have the appropriate antenna for VHF channels. The problems with the VHF band Mr. Good outlined are not limited to WGAL, but plague many other VHF stations across the county. All four of the VHF channels in Washington and Baltimore have had to increased their power in an effort to restore viewer lost in the digital transition.

I agree with Mr. Good that being only 20 miles from the tower puts you in a good position the receive WGAL, but remember people over the 30 mile mark like Chambersburg and Carlisle are struggling to receive WGAL, a channel that likely come in 100% per transition.

I do agree if they have to fire up the translators you would likely have problems with WGTW on channel 27, but I think you will be okay with the others. Hopefully the power increase will fix the problem and they will not need the translators.

Good Luck
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post #736 of 969 Old 04-27-2010, 05:27 AM
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If the problem lies >30 miles away why bother putting low-power UHF translators in Lancaster and York, both of which are less than 30 miles distance? They don't really need them.

I also don't understand why the FCC is rejecting permanent power boosts. WGAL used to be ~110 kilowatts and now they are only asking for ~30, but it sounds like the FCC refuses to grant that level permanently. Makes no sense. It's still only 1/4 as much power as previously.
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Originally Posted by pamajestic View Post

Remember WGAL has been on RF channel 8 for over 60 years. All of the long time viewers likely have the appropriate antenna for VHF channels.

Unless they upgraded to the new "HDTV capable" antennas, most of which were designed to be UHF only.

Over in the Philadelphia forum there's a guy who's been watching Analog Channel 6 for years, and in theory should still be able to get the DTV-6. But then he admitted he threw-away his old VHF antenna because he didn't think he needed it anymore. I can't help thinking WGAL viewers fell into the same trap.

My Free TV streams 19 Mbps == 6000 GB/month per channel. No cellphone can do that. WHY kill off this excellent service??
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post #737 of 969 Old 04-27-2010, 06:58 AM
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32.2 kW is higher than the FCC power limit for their height and location.

- Trip

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #738 of 969 Old 04-28-2010, 05:04 PM
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I've reached the conclusion that the FCC is stupid..... at least when it comes to assigning power levels. How on earth did they think channel 6 or 8 could have the same coverage as the old analog, with only ~5 kilowatts of digital power? My air conditioner uses more power than that.

WGAL says a lot of their viewers are haivng trouble receiving the signal.
- Anybody here having problems getting WGAL? I'm not. It comes in strong with just a few "skips" now and then.

My Free TV streams 19 Mbps == 6000 GB/month per channel. No cellphone can do that. WHY kill off this excellent service??
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post #739 of 969 Old 04-29-2010, 07:18 PM
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At my QTH in central Chester CVountry WGAL is only received when tropo enhancement occurs. Analog was ok here. Based on meter readings, 32 kw may be just enough for regular reception.
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post #740 of 969 Old 04-29-2010, 07:43 PM
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I can only receive WGAL very early in the morning, the analog reception was crystal clear 24/7
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post #741 of 969 Old 04-30-2010, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLT OTA Nut View Post

Hi All


How is the Comcast service in Central PA? Particularly concerned about Sports in HD. Is it switched?

It looks like they now have MASN-HD, MASN2-HD, Comcast Philly HD, Comcast MidAtlantic - HD, but what about FSN-Pittsburgh HD? The comcast site doesn't list the HD as available, but I believe I've seen a poster from Mechanicsburg stating that it was now available, just in time for summer baseball.

Anyone know the plans for DirecTV to add Comcast Philly now that they "in theory" can add?

Also, if anyone can post their luck with pulling in adjacent markets OTA (Altoona, B-more, Philly, etc) with what type of rig setup.

Thanks,

CLT OTA Nut

There is FSN Pittsburgh on FiOS. I have no clue about OTA because I have FiOS.
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post #742 of 969 Old 05-04-2010, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chamb View Post

Yes Yes Yes. The Gettysburg translator. They are NOT covering the western part of their DMA at all except by Satellite and cable. Even if they increase power on RF8, they still will need the Gettysburg Translator. They are dealing with a mountain that blocks their signal from Lancaster. They need to bring the signal over this mountain and a translator is the answer. Can we do this yesterday?? We need Pennsylvania stations since we are in Pennsylvania. I do not care to see news out of Washington, DC but news from the Harrisburg area is desirable.

I understand that some will benefit from these translators. However, a conservative approach must be used to prevent wiping out other stations in fringe areas. If the mountain west of Gettysburg is blocking WGAL, than make sure the translator focuses its energy WEST OF GETTYSBURG. I live southeast of Gettysburg in Pennsylvania and WGAL has a strong signal (with an outdoor antenna). My area (east of the mountain) does not need a translator whatsoever. I looked at the signal covarage map of 31 (translator for WGAL) and it appears that most of the energy is focused in my direction (southeast of Gettysburg) instead of the direction that is needed (west-southwest of Gettysburg). Did someone do some miscalulations when determining directionality??

Thanks to another translator (33 for WITF), there is now conflicts with an existing station WHUT. I doubt this will be the last conflict that results from the addition of these translators.

Thanks to another "slated translator" (27 for WGAL), I may lose one of my favorite channels, WETA.

The list goes on and on... This freight train must be stopped!

Each translator that is added is only multiplying channel conflicts and it will do so in an exponential manner. If you tell a child that he can have another matchbox car, he will continue to ask for them. The key concept behind all of this is to very carefully determine the implications of a decision. On this front, I am urging the FCC to carefully consider the pros/cons of each individual translator application and to apply the utmost prudence in tailoring the translator to the specific region(s) needed. Otherwise, each station out there will feel entitled to slices of the translator pie and we will be destroying the traditional broadcast tv model that has worked so well.

Another issue with translators is that it is introducing a new concept to many rural broadcast television viewers, namely the concept of having to redirect outdoor antennas to view the stations in a single DMA. In the Gettysburg area, all stations in the Harrisburg DMA can be obtained by simply pointing an antenna system in a direction roughly halfway between Harrisburg (21, 27, 33) and York/Lancaster (8, 43, 49), which also picks up WLYH-15. Also, in Gettysburg, some TV viewers have multiple antenna systems, for instance, one pointing to Harrisburg/York, one pointing between Baltimore / DC. I have observed a large majority of people in this area (south-central PA, Gettysburg, Hanover, Littlestown) that prefer to receive Balitmore/DC channels over Harrisburg/York channels, particularly since the HD news is on the Maryland channels (e.g. WTTG 10pm news looks 10,000% better than WPMT 10pm news).

News flash: For those that may recall, I have had great trouble in receiving WTTG from my location roughly 3 miles from the MD/PA border. A friend of my father provided a Clearstream 4 antenna from Antennas Direct, and to our great amazement, it locks WTTG in spite of the stronger WITF signal! After looking at the gain charts, I believe it has to do with the null in the back-left quadrant in-and-around the Channel 36 spectrum. I will be installing my own Clearstream 4 antenna soon and putting it on an electronic switch with my other antennas (YA-1713 and CM-3023) so I can watch WTTG 10pm news!

In closing, I am not against translators per se but I think that there needs to be better planning and a stricter code so that the airwaves don't wind up looking like the US Airways.
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post #743 of 969 Old 05-06-2010, 12:00 PM
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Got this from WITF the other day:

"At the moment, we are in the final stages of completing an agreement with DirecTV. I have your info and I’ll notify you when I receive any concrete dates. Again, thanks for your interest. Like you, I’m looking forward to getting our HD signal readily available in as many outlets as possible."
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post #744 of 969 Old 06-01-2010, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewd View Post

On what, Comcast???

Can anyone else verify that FSN - Pittsburgh is available in HD on Comcast for them? I'll be moving to Etters and want to make sure I can get it in HD, but all the comcast channel line-ups only show it in SD. I know FIOS has it in HD, but I can't get it in Etters. I also know Directv has it, but I can't get CSN - Philly on it.

73's

AJ4ZM
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post #745 of 969 Old 06-13-2010, 07:02 PM
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You can't get WGAL8 in Gettysburg if you're using a UHF antenna. You need the right tool for the right job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albireo View Post

Thanks to another translator (33 for WITF), there is now conflicts with an existing station WHUT. I doubt this will be the last conflict that results from the addition of these translators.

Thanks to another "slated translator" (27 for WGAL), I may lose one of my favorite channels, WETA. The list goes on and on... This freight train must be stopped!

WGAL's engineer showed zero sympathy when I discussed this issue with him. He simply said, "You have no right to receive stations outside the Harrisburg DMA." How arrogant..... as if WGAL is soooo important that they think they have the right to block my Ion and Univision stations.

My Free TV streams 19 Mbps == 6000 GB/month per channel. No cellphone can do that. WHY kill off this excellent service??
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post #746 of 969 Old 06-14-2010, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaveng View Post

WGAL's engineer showed zero sympathy when I discussed this issue with him. He simply said, "You have no right to receive stations outside the Harrisburg DMA." How arrogant..... as if WGAL is soooo important that they think they have the right to block my Ion and Univision stations.

What about those of us in their DMA that can't receive channel 8. I have better reception of channels outside my own DMA (Harrisburg) 27 WHTM is usually ok, 21 WHP is hit and miss, 33 is great now that the Chambersburg translator is on. 2 WMAR, 7 WJLA and 9 WUSA 10 WTAJ are ok most of the time.
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post #747 of 969 Old 06-14-2010, 09:03 AM
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Unfortunately Franklin County is not inside the Harrisburg-Lancaster DMA. It was assigned by Nielsen Ratings and the FCC to the Washington DMA. So if you complain to WGAL's engineer you'll probably get the same response I did (that you're not supposed to be receiving because you're not in the market). Sorry. :-|

Anyway a translator in Gettysburg won't block my Ion or Univision stations, so I'm okay with that. My concern is with the translators in Lancaster and York. They will be blocking two of the stations I enjoy watching, and there's simply no need for them (both cities are well inside VHF8's contour). I thnk the decision is stupid.

DMA map - http://home.mchsi.com/~jdeeth/dma.jpg
DC DMA - http://www.washingtonpostads.com/ads...72_map_DMA.gif

My Free TV streams 19 Mbps == 6000 GB/month per channel. No cellphone can do that. WHY kill off this excellent service??
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post #748 of 969 Old 06-14-2010, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaveng View Post

Unfortunately Franklin County is not inside the Harrisburg-Lancaster DMA. It was assigned by Nielsen Ratings and the FCC to the Washington DMA. So if you complain to WGAL's engineer you'll probably get the same response I did (that you're not supposed to be receiving because you're not in the market). Sorry. :-|

DMA map - http://home.mchsi.com/~jdeeth/dma.jpg
DC DMA - http://www.washingtonpostads.com/ads...72_map_DMA.gif


Wrong Wrong. Franklin County has been a part of the Harrisburg/York/Lancaster DMA for at least a year.
On Directv we get the Harrisburg/York/Lancaster and also the Washington/Hagerstown Locals. We are unique for sure.
http://www.truckads.com/Affiliate/Ha...n_York.htm#map

The link above may not display properly since it is a very long link, but the web page clearly shows it.
For some reason, probably money, WHAG in Hagerstown is not carried on Directv.
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post #749 of 969 Old 06-14-2010, 10:34 PM
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I never understood why Franklin County was moved out of the Washington DMA, but Fulton County was left in. I can't imagine that anyone in Fulton County would ever receive DC stations with a 2000' mountain blocking them. Just looking at that Washington DMA map there must be many that don't receive a DC station
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post #750 of 969 Old 06-15-2010, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chamb View Post

Franklin County has been a part of the Harrisburg/York/Lancaster DMA for at least a year.

Ahhhh, I guess that's why WGAL is building a repeater in Gettysburg then. I still don't see the need for one in Lancaster or York.

This link shows I'll be getting interference on channels 15, 27, 43, 49, 51, and 58 - http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=53930 - Those repeaters may block WGTW48 (27 true) and other stations as well.

My Free TV streams 19 Mbps == 6000 GB/month per channel. No cellphone can do that. WHY kill off this excellent service??
theaveng is offline  
Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

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