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post #1 of 4 Old 03-23-2002, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Yesterday at the local Audio King store -- part of the Ultimate Electronics (?) chain -- the manager told me:

- There is no controversy about any upcoming HDTV copy protection, and no set I could buy now was in any danger of becoming obsolete.

- If I were to buy one of the many HDTVs that claim 1080i resolution and then happened to measure fewer lines of actual resolution, I could sue the manufacturer for false advertising.

(My contention was and is that no consumer display device currently available has 1080 lines of actual resolution. I wonder what the best available resolution is right now -- both horizontal & vertical? I know some pixel-based displays have 1024 rows, and also that Gary Merson wrote about a year ago that CRT-based displays rarely achieve even 720 lines vertically. Anyone care to add to or correct that?)

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post #2 of 4 Old 03-24-2002, 07:41 PM
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There are plenty of multisync monitors capable of displaying 1080+ vertical lines and 1920+ horizontal resolution.
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post #3 of 4 Old 03-28-2002, 06:39 PM
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You have an overly simplified understanding of the issues of scan lines, analog rastering, pixel count and visual lines of resolution and are confusing them in you understanding. eg. 1080i is a method of counting the number of horizontal scan lines that are scanned in interlaced manner in the raster. Whether these lines are actually visible has to do with the amount of overlap of these lines but, yes, the display device does actually scan 1080 interlaced lines. The 1920 is the digital pixel count for the image and can be a measure of horizontal resolution but this is not relavant in the analog display device. It is relavant on the digital display such as DLP or LCD monitor. Not all digital display devices will display the 1920 pixels and even not all HDTV will carry the bandwidth to have 1920 pixels in the data. Consider that Sony HDCAM is only speced at 1080i X 1280 pixels, not 1920 pixels. Panasonic D5 is speced at 1920 Pixels.

On an analog display, the horizontal pixel count is displayed as an analog number of visual lines of resolution. Most high end analog display devices can attain 1200 lines at best while many only attain 800 lines in the horizontal resolution visual test.

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post #4 of 4 Old 03-29-2002, 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by Syzygy
My contention was and is that no consumer display device currently available has 1080 lines of actual resolution. I wonder what the best available resolution is right now -- both horizontal & vertical?
You might try what another member does: Borrow or rent a high-quality HDTV generator and test sets. He (LB) ran some horizontal resolution results two years back (his 12/05/00 post), provides one update in this current thread , and might update his earlier performance data.

I've taken the continuing claim by my set manufacturer that it can display all of 1080i's 2 million-plus pixels with a grain of salt. While the RPTV set, a Philips 64PH9905 has 9-in. CRTs, they're electrostatically focused, which can't be adjusted to the needle-sharp beams of electromagnetically focused CRT models such as Sony's high-end, graphics-grade G90s. The set does seem to have the electronic bandwidth required, though, plus a lenticular screen with fine enough pitch (0.51 mm). LB, some time back here, recounts seeing one (or a similar Philips model) display 1500-1600 lines of horizontal resolution at a show.

So what can higher-end RPTVs or other sets display? IMO, you also have to ask what the signal source is. Recently, in "HDTV programs can't provide 1920 X 1080 because..." , I outlined some limits on actually viewing original 1080iX1920 resolution because of filtering, compression (MPEG-2), and other factors. How test pattern signals translate into viewed on-screen resolutions, at least with display gear used for approving of the U.S. HDTV standard, is also shown. In addition to all these limitations, resolution measurements might differ if you inject a test signal almost directly into the display (component inputs) or feed a RF test signal into the HDTV tuner, bringing different filtering into the testing.

So, pending the arrival of HDTV DVD test discs, or easy access to high-end test gear, it appears few really can test the limits of their hardware. A pleasant surprise would be for CBS to turn one of its HDTV cameras on a HDTV test pattern during the upcoming Master's golf game. Better yet, as I've suggested before, networks should build a HDTV resolution test pattern into the HDTV-oriented graphics they periodically display before station breaks or as time-fillers. These could be the updated equivalent of the "Indian-Head" resolution charts for NTSC broadcasts, and while they might appear only briefly you could adapt to reading them after several viewings. -- John
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