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post #1171 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 09:48 AM
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I have it hooked up that way and it does help some Hugh. It is just a pain to switch inputs whenever you want to change from HD channels to SD channels.

The SD pq with the old pioneer box wasn't very good, but with this new box it is terrible. I'm not sure why this box would make the it look that much worse than the other box did.
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post #1172 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 10:56 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by chief17
Well I have 4 TVs now (1HD and 3 SD). I just want to keep basic cable on the 3 SD channels so I don't have to pay for a voom reciever for each one of them (And in case i don't like VOOM). I am a little worried about being able to pick up all of the local channels OTA and the rain fade issues. I guess its worth a shot since there is no obligation though.

I just want to keep basic cable (I'm assuming thats channels 2-55 or something) on the 3 SD televisions.

Ah I see, similar problem for me. No real good solution for more than two machines and SAT. What you want is called standard cable. I believe it's $44.80 per month. Here is a google cached link to TW rates, paste this into your web browser:

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache...na+rates&hl=en

They have removed this from their regular page. Not sure why. Maybe they are embarrassed by them considering VOOM is cheaper.

Rodney
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post #1173 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 01:47 PM
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Just got my 8000HD installed. Install went without a hitch, basically just unplugging the old HD box and swapping all cables over. FWIW, the 8000HD arrived brand new in a sealed box, and the remote was also new in a sealed plastic bag.

I do have a fairly major problem that seems to aspect ratio related... When I set the aspect ratio to Widescreen --> Stretch SD, it seems to stretch the HD channels as well. I have to sidebar 4:3 before I can tune HD channels so it will not stretch them. Does anyone else seem to have this problem? The easiest way to tell if the HD is being stretched is to look for the bug on the HD channel and if it is half cut off...

I read the set-up manual that Scientific Atlanta had posted on their Explorer's Club site, and it mentioned advanced set-up for the apect ratios and output, but none of the key combinations seemed to do anything (with box on, press and hold select, or with box off, press info and guide simultaneously)...anyone have any luck with those set-up instructions? I thought maybe they would help with the above situation.

The SD picture does indeed look terrible, and I would consider using the television tuner for SD, but then there is no IPG and it is a pain to swap inputs to watch the ondemands or HD.

Hopefully I am missing something obvious? Regardless of any problems, however, I am glad they decided to release the DVR anyways - at least I have a way to timeshift HD.
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post #1174 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 02:29 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by doppler1
I do have a fairly major problem that seems to aspect ratio related... When I set the aspect ratio to Widescreen --> Stretch SD, it seems to stretch the HD channels as well. I have to sidebar 4:3 before I can tune HD channels so it will not stretch them. Does anyone else seem to have this problem? The easiest way to tell if the HD is being stretched is to look for the bug on the HD channel and if it is half cut off...



I did notice that. I thought there must be a way to change it, but since I keep mine in 4:3 letterbox, I didn't worry much about it.


Quote:



The SD picture does indeed look terrible, and I would consider using the television tuner for SD, but then there is no IPG and it is a pain to swap inputs to watch the ondemands or HD.

Thats my main problem with this box. Does the SD picture look much worse than it did with your previous box?
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post #1175 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 02:41 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by doppler1
I do have a fairly major problem that seems to aspect ratio related... When I set the aspect ratio to Widescreen --> Stretch SD, it seems to stretch the HD channels as well. I have to sidebar 4:3 before I can tune HD channels so it will not stretch them. Does anyone else seem to have this problem? The easiest way to tell if the HD is being stretched is to look for the bug on the HD channel and if it is half cut off...

)...anyone have any luck with those set-up instructions? I thought maybe they would help with the above situation.
The SD picture does indeed look terrible, and I would consider using the television tuner for SD, but then there is no IPG and it is a pain to swap inputs to watch the ondemands or HD.
.

Your problem with the HD stretch is one I have read about before but I don't have an answer to correct it. You might try rebooting. As to the set-up instructions.......they don't all work since we have the Pioneer Passport software and not SARA. The SD PQ is bad and other than what I do with the splitter I don't have any other answer. When I got mine a couple of months ago they told me when they brought it out that the SD PQ was not as good, nothing new on that situation.

Hugh Campbell
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post #1176 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 03:43 PM
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Thanks for the replies Chief and Hugh.

I figured the online directions were fairly irrelevant due to software variations, but I remembered someone mentioning them previously (possibly in another thread though).

Cheif: I had the Pioneer HD box before, and yes - the SD picture quality was much better than it is with the DVR box. Luckily, most of the SD I do watch is timeshifted with TiVo.

I have tried rebooting the box, but that didn't seem to fix the stretching issue at all - probably a minor bug that someone overlooked at SA (or Pioneer). Anyone know a good way to report these kinds of technical problems in a "just to let you guys know" kind of way (someone who would understand the issue - i.e. not CS).

Anyway, like I said before, I am glad they released the box, and look forward to (hopefully) seeing the software mature with time.
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post #1177 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 04:11 PM
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So far ......I am not finding the PQ to be any worse than the Pioneer box. I have my setup as 480P and 10801 only - No 480i. The lack of locals was due to 720p selected which my RPTV does not accept.
Picture is equal to before with the DVR or Pioneer HDTV - SD.
As for HD - looks good, Discovery and MLS Soccer on HDNEt were excellent. I do have Monster cables, not sure if that is the difference or not. Was a simple swap out procedure. The optical audio is passing 5.1 without problem. Only issue is an occasional audio drop out for first 5 seconds when switching to HDTV station - then smooth.
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post #1178 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 04:14 PM
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About this poor quality SD issue....

Have you tried SD via s-video? SD often looks worse via component, better via s-video. Maybe that's it...?
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post #1179 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 05:02 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by archiguy
About this poor quality SD issue....

Have you tried SD via s-video? SD often looks worse via component, better via s-video. Maybe that's it...?

but then wouldn't HD look worse?

Does anyone know of a way to change the sidebars from gray to black?
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post #1180 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 05:09 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by chief17
but then wouldn't HD look worse?

Does anyone know of a way to change the sidebars from gray to black?

HD would become SD through S-Video...plus, the box only outputs through component, but will output through composite or s-vid whatever is on PIP or whatever is being saved to VCR.

I haven't come across a way to change the color of the sidebars.
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post #1181 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 05:10 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by rcasenc
So far ......I am not finding the PQ to be any worse than the Pioneer box. I have my setup as 480P and 10801 only - No 480i. The lack of locals was due to 720p selected which my RPTV does not accept.
Picture is equal to before with the DVR or Pioneer HDTV - SD.
As for HD - looks good, Discovery and MLS Soccer on HDNEt were excellent. I do have Monster cables, not sure if that is the difference or not. Was a simple swap out procedure. The optical audio is passing 5.1 without problem. Only issue is an occasional audio drop out for first 5 seconds when switching to HDTV station - then smooth.

How did you select both 480p and 1080i? The DVR only takes whatever I chose last, not multiple selections like the Pioneer box did.
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post #1182 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 06:00 PM
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Quote:


How did you select both 480p and 1080i? The DVR only takes whatever I chose last, not multiple selections like the Pioneer box did.

I hooked up two boxes today, and one box allows for multiple selections and one does not. I have't been able to get a DVI signal from either box. Is this a known issue with this unit?

I think that part of the SD picture quality issue could be the light gray sidebars washing out the picture. I sure hope that there is way to change them to black.
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post #1183 of 7963 Old 07-29-2004, 06:12 PM
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I went into the settings (click settings button), clicked on A(triangle) for advanced settings - scrolled down to Output format - and choose 480p and 1080i only.
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post #1184 of 7963 Old 07-30-2004, 06:20 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Brad LeGrone
I sure hope that there is way to change them to black.

According to the SA 8000 HD User Guide (p. 43), you should be able to...

1. Hit the settings key twice (General Setting menu appears)
2. Use the up/down arrows to highlight the Set: TV Borders options
3. Use the right arrow to display the Borders option (Light [default], Medium, Dark).
4. Use the up/down arrows to highlight the border you want (I assume Dark is what you're looking for).
5. Press A to Accept
6. Press Exit

Of course, this all may be moot due to the software (SARA vs. Passport).

Now, I don't know if Dark is dark enough, but it's worth a shot. I'm not getting mine until tomorrow, and plus, I have a rear projection CRT display, so I'd get serious burn in if I used black sidebars on 4:3.
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post #1185 of 7963 Old 07-30-2004, 09:30 AM
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Quote:


I hooked up two boxes today, and one box allows for multiple selections and one does not. I have't been able to get a DVI signal from either box. Is this a known issue with this unit?

I must have one of the ones that does not...there must be a couple of different software versions floating around for some reason. DVI isn't scheduled on SARA software for another couple months, who knows with Pioneer software.

Quote:


According to the SA 8000 HD User Guide (p. 43), you should be able to...
1. Hit the settings key twice (General Setting menu appears)

That whole thing must only work on SARA because hitting settings twice brings up the settings window and closes it right away.

Quote:


Now, I don't know if Dark is dark enough, but it's worth a shot. I'm not getting mine until tomorrow, and plus, I have a rear projection CRT display, so I'd get serious burn in if I used black sidebars on 4:3.

Which is what makes the stretching bug very annoying. I need SD stretched, but I have to remember to turn it off while on a SD channel before switching to a HD channel...once on a HD channel, it says the picture matches your television's aspect ratio (or something similar), and will not allow you to turn off stretching (it probably thinks it is already off).
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post #1186 of 7963 Old 07-30-2004, 11:49 AM
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I have to remember to turn it off while on a SD channel before switching to a HD channel...once on a HD channel, it says the picture matches your television's aspect ratio (or something similar), and will not allow you to turn off stretching (it probably thinks it is already off).

That's why I'm gonna hook the HD-DVR into two TV inputs -- component for HD, and S-Video for SD. Then I'm gonna set up macros on my remote to go to those inputs -- and their corresponding audio inputs on the receiver (digital and analog) -- for HD and SD viewing, respectively. That way, I can avoid changing aspect ratios on the box, and use my TV for stretching the 4:3 SD content. The stretch mode on my TV is much better, and it keeps the same mode depending on the scan rate (i.e., 16:9 standard for HD component input, 4:3 stretch for SD S-video input), eliminating the need to manually switch it each time.

Maybe something similar to this approach might work for you?
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post #1187 of 7963 Old 07-30-2004, 01:23 PM
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Ooh, I just read your earlier post (quote below). Maybe my brilliant idea won't work after all. Can you (or anyone else -- Hugh?) confirm that the box only outputs through component? That seems a little restrictive. Why have all those other outputs?

Quote:


Originally posted by doppler1
...plus, the box only outputs through component, but will output through composite or s-vid whatever is on PIP or whatever is being saved to VCR.

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post #1188 of 7963 Old 07-30-2004, 01:23 PM
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so here is my idea about hooking up a new SA 8000 box (I do not have the box yet, merely planning)...please tell me if I am nuts:

use component for HD connection
use S-Video for digital channels
use cable out for non-digital (2 - 77?)

then set up my universal remote (also, need to purchase) with macros for each channel to toggle a/v inputs.

hopefully, this will cover:

- the PQ issues (i got much better non-digital reception through cable out on my old SA box)
- the stretch issues...allowing my TV to stretch the S-Video and Cable Out pictures, instead of the SA box
- correct audio selection between HD and non-HD

please shoot holes in my plan before i make the leap...

thanks,
pipedown
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post #1189 of 7963 Old 07-30-2004, 03:01 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Charles C
Ooh, I just read your earlier post (quote below). Maybe my brilliant idea won't work after all. Can you (or anyone else -- Hugh?) confirm that the box only outputs through component? That seems a little restrictive. Why have all those other outputs?

Correct...that will not work at all. For whatever reason, the analog outputs are only active on save to VCR and when PIP is on.
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post #1190 of 7963 Old 07-30-2004, 03:07 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by pipedown
so here is my idea about hooking up a new SA 8000 box (I do not have the box yet, merely planning)...please tell me if I am nuts:

use component for HD connection
use S-Video for digital channels
use cable out for non-digital (2 - 77?)

then set up my universal remote (also, need to purchase) with macros for each channel to toggle a/v inputs.

hopefully, this will cover:

- the PQ issues (i got much better non-digital reception through cable out on my old SA box)
- the stretch issues...allowing my TV to stretch the S-Video and Cable Out pictures, instead of the SA box
- correct audio selection between HD and non-HD

please shoot holes in my plan before i make the leap...

thanks,
pipedown

Consider holes shot into the plan...your plan was basically what Charles was trying to do. You will be able to split the cable and use your televisions analog tuner to watch the analog channels (2-99), but you will not be able to watch digital channels (nor use the IPG or Favorites on Demand) without the DVR box - which only outputs through component out unless PIP is on or you chose the save to VCR option for a saved program.

Quite honestly, I don't think the digital channels look too bad through the box though, it's just the analog channels that look horrible to me...and with that stretch bug, you can tune the HD channel for one of the networks and it will stretch out the bars on the side and you are left with a digital stretched picture (which looks really good).
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post #1191 of 7963 Old 07-30-2004, 10:14 PM
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yeah, the digital channels w/ sidebars do look pretty good stretched. too bad this is probably a 'bug' that will be fixed eventually.

I'm kind of a newbie to this HD stuff. Can someone tell me what I should output formats i should enable on the HD-DVR box? (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) You can leave more than one enabled. I have a Sony Grand Wega III (42WE610).

Thanks.
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post #1192 of 7963 Old 07-31-2004, 06:37 AM
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When TWC brought out my box they were talking about the fact you could not output anything other then to the TV, except the VCR archive. This is something I would really like to see changed in the future. This would then eliminate the problem with the poor SD picture as you could easily bypass the box. Then if the HD PQ was at least improved to the same standards as the old Pioneer box we would all be happy. Pioneer is no longer making their box and that is the reason TWC is using SA which is a real shame as I don't believe the quality or functionality is close.

Hugh Campbell
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post #1193 of 7963 Old 07-31-2004, 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by HughScot
When TWC brought out my box they were talking about the fact you could not output anything other then to the TV, except the VCR archive.

I'm not sure what you mean by that...
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post #1194 of 7963 Old 07-31-2004, 07:36 AM
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For those of you worried about the SD picture quality in the HD-DVR, as our great senior Senator and soon-to-be-Vice President would say: "Help is on the way!"

TWC is aware of this issue and it will be fixed "shortly". They plan to digitize the analog content at the headend for these devices and that should alleviate the problem.
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post #1195 of 7963 Old 07-31-2004, 07:49 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by archiguy
For those of you worried about the SD picture quality in the HD-DVR, as our great senior Senator and soon-to-be-Vice President would say: "Help is on the way!"

I guess this would indicate that you are NOT a Republican?

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers.
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post #1196 of 7963 Old 07-31-2004, 07:51 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by chief17
I'm kind of a newbie to this HD stuff. Can someone tell me what I should output formats i should enable on the HD-DVR box? (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) You can leave more than one enabled. I have a Sony Grand Wega III (42WE610).

What up, chief.

I'm anxiously anticipating the arrival of my HD-DVR this morning. In the meantime, you have a 720p LCD monitor, so one option is to output the HD-DVR to 720p only. That way, your monitor is receiving everything in it's native format.

HOWEVER, your post got me thinking about the "SD output to S-video" issue in my previous couple of posts with doppler. I seem to recall that he (or someone -- too lazy right now to check prior posts) set their HD box to output to 480p and 1080i. So of course only the component outputs work! S-video cannot handle progressive or HD formats .

I know my HDTVs de-interlacer (or whatever you call it) works much better than the SA box, so, if it's possible, I'm gonna let the box pass through all signals in their native format (480i for SD, 720p for ABC & Fox, and 1080i for all others). So, at least in theory, the 480i will go through S-video and the rest through component.

If that works -- and I'll find out in a couple of hours -- I'll let you know. Then, chief, you can experiment with what looks better: letting your monitor convert the native signals to 720p, by passing through all inputs from the HD box; or passing through everything in 720p.
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post #1197 of 7963 Old 07-31-2004, 09:32 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by archiguy
For those of you worried about the SD picture quality in the HD-DVR;

TWC is aware of this issue and it will be fixed "shortly". They plan to digitize the analog content at the headend for these devices and that should alleviate the problem.

May I ask were you read this and is there a timeframe mentioned? Basicly all except the local networks TWC already receives digitized so the would only need to pass them through instead of converting them to analog as they do now. I even think they receive some if not all the locals digitally by fiber lines.
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post #1198 of 7963 Old 07-31-2004, 09:39 AM
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Thanks Charles. Let me know how your experimenting goes and I will play with mine later this afternoon.

archiguy: That is very good news. Did you get that information from a Time Warner customer service rep? I guess they didn't give you any indication of how "soon" we will see this fixed? Thanks.

The SD picture quality is my only real problem with this box... I can live with the other little bugs. SD channels are not just a little worse than my other box, they are a LOT worse... almost unwatchable. If this gets fixed I will be a very happy man. I would also like to be able to make the sidebars black instead of gray... I am hoping that option will come in a future software upgrade.

This box also seems quieter than the other box (when writing to the HD) which is good.
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post #1199 of 7963 Old 07-31-2004, 10:21 AM
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OK, I humbly bow to the superior knowledge of doppler.

First of all, the installer guy came around 11, and no, it was not a TWC badged employee. AND this was his first install. BUT he had an HD-DVR, so I promptly snatched it from his hands and installed it myself. Piece o' cake.

Now, in deference to doppler, my TV does not receive any signal from the S-video output. I even set the output on the HD box to 480i only and unplugged the component cables. Nothing.

But after messing around for awhile, I have stumbled upon a way to use my TV's superior stretch mode instead of the cable box's. What I did was set the Aspect Ratio as follows:

TV Type = Standard (4:3)
Picture Settings = Letterbox 16:9

Now, keep in mind I have a 16:9 widescreen TV.

By doing this rather odd setup, on the SD channels I get all my TV's aspect ratio modes, including the 4:3 stretch mode, behaving as if I'm getting an SD signal -- i.e., they all work! Even though the signal is 480p (according to my TV). Popping over to the HD channels (250 and 280 are on this morning), they look fine -- receiving a 1080i image and displaying them in all their HD glory. I even switched to the OTA WJZY feed just to make sure my eyes weren't deceiving me. But sure enough, it looks right.

Now, YMMV, depending on how your particular set handles the signals. But for my CRT RPTV set (Hitachi 65XWX20B), this seems to work.

BTW, I have ALL Output Formats selected (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i), and my TV indicates it receives them in the latter 3 formats, depending on the channel. All SD channels must be upconverted by the HD box to 480p; but WSOC and WCCB show up as 720p, and the other HD channels show up as 1080i. So I guess by selecting all formats the box is passing through the signal as natively as it can.

I'll check back in after tonight with my thoughts on SD quality, as well as cable box vs. OTA HD signal comparisons. On first blush, the SD quality looks about the same as my previous SA8000 (non-HD) DVR, which is to say crappy, but keep in mind I'm sitting 10 feet away from a 65" television, so it's not gonna look very good to begin with.
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post #1200 of 7963 Old 07-31-2004, 10:26 AM
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Somethings up....ALL HD channels are down in Kings Mtn area.
SD works fine.
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