WJXT losing CBS affilation in Jacksonville - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 114 Old 04-03-2002, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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With the announcement that WJXT will no longer be the CBS affiliate in Jacksonville, what are the chances of someone else being able to bring the HDTV broadcast to our area. If we don't have a CBS affiliate can we get HDTV off of Dish now for CBS?

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post #2 of 114 Old 04-03-2002, 02:28 PM
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Huh!! When was this announcement made and from who?

I'd say yes to the Dish question considering we would be in a white area for CBS. Seems unlikely that CBS would not have an affiliate in a city as big as Jax though. And since WJXT was supposedly going to have HD running by May, what would they broadcast?

Paul
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post #3 of 114 Old 04-03-2002, 03:06 PM
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Well, found a story about it.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/wjxt/20...1145503_1.html

I don't think HD will work for sydicated programs. An independent will not help out our DTV situation (except if we get WCBS-DT, but only from DISH)

Paul
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post #4 of 114 Old 04-03-2002, 03:17 PM
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Older article here.

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/...19/story1.html

Seems as though WTEV (Clear channel UPN) may try to get CBS. If that's the case, we won't have HD CBS for a while.
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post #5 of 114 Old 04-04-2002, 05:36 AM
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According to my research, as long as current contracts are honored by other stations Jacksonville, may be without a CBS affiliate real soon. This means we viewers will qualify for the DishNetwork CBS local HDTV channel. I have sent e-mails posing this question already. I plan to go for it as soon as possible to snag that subscription opportunity.
Can't believe WJXT would leave Jax without a CBS station to carry the Jaguars games next season. That should go over like a lead balloon!
In the meantime, I have also sent queries to WJXT as to how this will affect their rollout of HDTV as originally promised for May. Remember, they will probably not receive the CBS HDTV equipment now that they have officially announced they will not be CBS.
Meanwhile, Ken Tonning of WTL:V is all smiles as he sees the fall of WJXT's rein and WTLV now in position to be Jax's no1 station even with all the money PN has promised JXT. Bottom line, they will not be CBS and that is important for prime time programming.
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post #6 of 114 Old 04-04-2002, 06:29 AM
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CBS has said that it is currently looking at other strong stations in the Jax market.

From www.newsblues.com :

[Quote:]

"We have a number
of choices that we're evaluating and a number of discussions we're having,"
said Dana McClintock, vice president of CBS Communications.

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post #7 of 114 Old 04-04-2002, 10:57 AM
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Ouch! That hurts!

Where the heck did this come from? I didn't even know this was on the table.

So much for CBSHD. When does this become effective? Since they didn't apply to an extension to the May deadline, do they have to apply now, or are they simply done?

Thanks... Ralph
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post #8 of 114 Old 04-04-2002, 06:17 PM
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Right now CBS is broadcasting CSI in HD. 42.1 on my dish6000.

FPW
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post #9 of 114 Old 04-04-2002, 11:00 PM
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Thanks, sysdoc-

Looks like I'll have to connect my OTA antenna tomorrow to check it out. I've had it disconnected since the Olympics.

Re who gets CBS in Jax- Looks like it will be WTEV, at least all bets are in that direction since they can simply null a contract with UPN and switch to CBS considering the Viacom ownership of both CBS and UPN. WTEV is independent but it looks like they will get this handed to them on a silver platter. Keep your eye on them now for the DTV HD. If WJXT is using the HD equipment from CBS, they could lose it when the affiliation is dropped.

Keep an eye on WTEV-DT at channel 19. Who knows- if they get the HD equipment from CBS and WJXT independent buys their own HD stuff, including programming, we may end up with TWO more HD stations in Jax with HDTV, possibility but more likely, the independent JXT will drop HDTV until it is more mainstream. "HDTV database" lists WTEV-DT channel 19 as scheduled to do DTV by end of 2002. I don't think any surprise affiliation with CBS will speed this up.
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post #10 of 114 Old 04-05-2002, 04:03 AM
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This could hurt me. I live in Gainesville, where we have always gotten our CBS over Cox Cable from Jax. I am just far enough away to qualify for Dish CBS HDTV. If a station with better OTA coverage picks up CBS in Jax, I could lose my Dish CBS access, even though I seriously doubt I could get a decent signal OTA. It's a crazy "system" we have.
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post #11 of 114 Old 04-05-2002, 04:41 AM
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I'm not getting anything on 42 right now. Can anyone verify they are still testing? I will keep checking throughout the day.

Paul
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post #12 of 114 Old 04-05-2002, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rcibera
Ouch! That hurts!

Where the heck did this come from? I didn't even know this was on the table.


Thanks... Ralph
WJXT owner Post-Newsweek is sore over CBS's refusal to continue paying affliates compensation for carrying the network's programming. As CBS re-negotiates affiliate contracts when they expire, they're starting to exclude compensation agreements, even for very strong-performing stations like WJXT. The station began buying-up a load of syndicated programming rights last year in anticipation that this might happen, to fill the void left by the loss of their CBS affiliation.

The WJXT General Manager recently called a staff meeting to announce that the station would become an independent and do some 50 hours (!) of local news per week. There is some risk in this approach, but it worked very well for some stations that have lost network affiliations, like WSVN in Miami, which lost its NBC afiliation several years ago.

WSVN eventually picked up a Fox affiliation. Don't be surprised if, as other Jacksonville network affiliates' contracts come up for renewal, their networks try to enter negotiations with Post-Newsweek over possibly switching to WJXT. This sort of thing happens all the time.

If the current FCC rules that limit station ownership are raised significantly or even lifted as a result of a recent Federal Appeals Court ruling that instructed the FCC to evaluate the rules on the grounds that the court found them to be "arbitrary", many stations in big- and medium-sized markets will probably be "in play"...subject to possible purchase by the networks or by other very large TV broadcast groups.

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post #13 of 114 Old 04-05-2002, 06:00 AM
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Dave- The next few years in broadcast TV will be very interesting. The whol;e face of it may change. A likely possibility is that Local stations are no longer Network affiliated. Networks make up the loss by going the full DBS route, and are just like all "cable" networks. In the long haul is this good? IMO, this will only further dilute the audience pull during prime time and reduce the revenue for the Networks to produce "quality????" programming. Was that an oxymoron? Only if you don't believe the networks produce quality programming now.
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post #14 of 114 Old 04-05-2002, 06:25 AM
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Don,

That's right. And if you want to try and predict how thing will change, just "follow the dollar". Whatever is most profitable for a company is what it will do.

If you're losing you network carriage compensation, you might as well explore the business model of buying rights to syndicated programming and producing more local programing on your own. You pick up a lot more available commercial time that you can sell on your own that was previously held by the network, which adds considerably to potential profit.

As an employee of a network affiliate, I hate to admit this, but the network/affiliate business relationship makes less and less since as the television distribution landscape changes (the proliferation of cable and DBS). One thing is certain and that is that our business WILL evolve considerably. I have to maintain my skills and learn new ones to make myself valuable to my current employer and to anyone else who might oneday become a preeminent local/regional producer and/or distributor of television programming in my area in the future. We are about to enter very "fluid" times in our industry and there will be forces at work that are beyond our control, as employees, other than being the best we can be at what we do. Because history has shown that technology will allow television producers and broadcasters to "do more with less".

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post #15 of 114 Old 04-05-2002, 10:47 AM
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Did you have to move your antenna to get a signal for 42.1?
Can you get 13.1 & 13.2 pointed in this same direction?

I scanned yesterday and got no channels but 13.1 & 13.2.
Although, I did not move my antenna.

Thanks for the heads up.

I wish there were some way for us little people to know
ahead of time when these guys are putting out signals
for us to catch.

We should get the Masters in HD now in Jax via 42.1, right?

Happy HD hunting.


Quote:
Originally posted by sysdoc
Right now CBS is broadcasting CSI in HD. 42.1 on my dish6000.
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post #16 of 114 Old 04-05-2002, 01:48 PM
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Just spoke to a DT engineer at WJXT-

They will be in testing phase of the HDTV at 42.1 and 42.2 for SD digital signals each evening, soon to be 24-7 at full power when they check out all interferrence issues and can call the testing phase complete.

Re CBS- (Keep in mind that WJXT employees) are as much in the dark as where this will all end up as we in the public are at this time but He did tell me that until such time as the CBS affiliation is gone they will be doing the full CBS HDTV broadcast and the balance of SD in upconvert to 1080i. After the transition to independent status it's anyones guess right now whether they will have any true HDTV programming. They don't even know what they will be doing yet in SD. So we just have to sit by on that question for now while they work on it.

One thing I was reassured is that WJXT are very pro HDTV and want to do everything [possible to bring us 1080i, even if it is just upconvert on most of it because, his words, 1080i upconvert is a big improvement over SD 480i and they know this.

Re the CBS equipment for HDTV- It is CBS now but they plan to have their own when they figure out where it is all headed but for now not enough is known to spec it for the specific transponder on something they don't have a clue yet what bird they will be using.

1645PM 04/05/02
They just turned it on for a test of 42.1 at 1080i and 42.2 480P. That's right they are doing a 480P secondary channel.
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post #17 of 114 Old 04-05-2002, 02:04 PM
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I tuned in to 42 at about 3:50 and it is up now!! 42.1 is upcoverted 1080i and looks great (better upcovert than 13.1 had before Olympics). 42.2 is SD of the same programming. As sysdoc said, the signal is higher than 13 so as long as your antenna is close to where you have it for 13, you should be seeing something (keep in mind, 13 is VHF and 42 is UHF).

Although the American Fighter show isn't the best show, it should look pretty good in HD tonight.

Hopefully WTLV gets their HD signal back up soon. And then ABC HD!?!

Glad to see WJXT is still supporting HD despite the CBS situation.

Paul

Don, how can you tell 42.2 is 480p?
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post #18 of 114 Old 04-05-2002, 03:26 PM
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Paul-

The DST50 will give you the scan and interlace info with the selection of a button. Also, the use of a 480P with 1080i is a better choice than the way WTLV was doing it but they didn't have the right equipment mix at the time. Using a 480P allows the approximate same scan frequency in the monitor as 1080i so the switch between the two is more seamless than with 480i. With auto select tuners like the DTC-100 it isn't so important since it upconverts the 480i to 540p, an exact match to 1080i but the DST50 will give you 480i output with no conversiuon so this is not good.

FWIW- Signal strength I reported to engineer at WJXT this afternoon was-

WTLV 13-1 53 on DTC-100
WJXT 42-1 89 on DTC-100

Antenna is a terk 55 on the DirecTV dish at 12 ft above ground level.

The signal ported to my DST 50 is weaker and appears with some breakup. I will be soon looking for a better antenna and/or a preamp for the DST50.
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post #19 of 114 Old 04-05-2002, 06:10 PM
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Thanks, Don. Didn't know there were STB's that could tell you that.

Well, the CBS HD tonight looks pretty damn good. It will be really enjoyable until WJXT drops CBS. We should be okay for a few months. And, I can't wait till the Masters next week. It should be gorgeous.

Paul
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post #20 of 114 Old 04-05-2002, 07:12 PM
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Enjoy the Masters, Paul. I'll be in LV for NAB all next week.

How was the compression artifacts at your end. Especially on AFP?

I think jxt is pushing the bandwidth envelope with a 1080i and a 480p within the 6 Mhz band. I recall when WTLV was doing the Olympics at 13.5 Mb and HDNet was at the full 19.4, you could really notice the difference in the faster motion scenes.
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post #21 of 114 Old 04-06-2002, 04:25 AM
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Watched AFP on my Mits 46". I didn't notice too many artifacts except for the crappy editing on AFP. The stuff in the sim was especially grainy. But the cameras they put in there are those little security camera looking things. They use those in our sims as well. The in-plane shots looked better than I expected though.

I watched a little of First Monday afterwards as well but on my new RCA 32" Direct view. And it looked really nice, especially the sharp graphics. I didn't notice any real artifacts. So if they were there, they weren't as noticable as WTLV during the Olympics. But that was fast moving sports and the contrasts between white snow/ice and those bright colored uniforms reveal everything. Plus, WJXT didn't add in their own graphic to clutter the screen. I found that real annoying. And without the logo, it makes me wonder if they are messing with the bandwidth much at all. I've seen WCBS-DT recently and it looked identical to what we were watching last night.

Are you able to measure the bandwidth somehow or are those just numbers passed to you by the engineers? Does 480p take up twice the bandwidth of 480i or is it vitually the same?

Have fun in Las Vegas. Tell those NAB guys how it should be.

Paul
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post #22 of 114 Old 04-06-2002, 01:15 PM
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Does anyone else find it ironic that we wait so long for CBS-HD ,now to have it for 2-3months and then lose it ?At least we get a tasteof it.
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post #23 of 114 Old 04-06-2002, 06:06 PM
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Does anybody see this as a tactic by Post Newsweek to have WJXT out right acquired by CBS in order to keep CBS on the air in Jax? Then of course CBS could install their own management at WJXT and kill the stupid all news protest model. CBS O & O in Jax could be a possibility!
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post #24 of 114 Old 04-06-2002, 06:18 PM
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Satpro;It could be,but how long would negotiations take?Would this be an embarassment to CBS or Post Newsweek? By the way,how does WJXT look?How is the upconversion compared to Wkmg?
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post #25 of 114 Old 04-07-2002, 08:35 AM
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How's the signal for everyone? With the RCA rabbit ears I've been using, the signal fades out periodically. I switched to the RS double bow-tie and it's nice and strong and steady.

I watched a little of "Touched by an Angel" and both episodes of "The District." Very nice.

Hope they go to 24/7, or at least daytime coverage, by the time the Masters gets started.

Thanks... Ralph
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post #26 of 114 Old 04-07-2002, 12:24 PM
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WJXT's CBS contract expires Wednesday 7/10/2002. Plenty of time for CBS to try and buy out the station.
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post #27 of 114 Old 04-08-2002, 06:56 PM
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Got a reply from Mary Hatfield of WJXT today. She said they will continue to offer CBS HDTV until they are no longer CBS. She did not know what will happen after that as far as HDTV is concerned but the station will be HDTV capable. If I were to guess, they may be doing 1080i upconvert until they locate some programming and then they would need a complete head end to play the tapes. Not easy, nor cheap. I'm afraid that WJXT may not see much HDTV after July.

Paul- The bandwidth info I have comes from the station engineer, my friend at DirecTv who is in charge of regulating it; as I have no way to determine it here. And, yes, 480P is a broader bandwidth signal than 480i. It is 60 frames per second as opposed to 30 frames per second.

I think the only way to put a 480P and a 1080i on the same D channel is to compress the bandwidth of one or both.
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post #28 of 114 Old 04-08-2002, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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It's 1145pm and I'm not getting 42.1. I tried directly inputing it and got "weak signal" from my RCA-DTC100, which can actually mean "no signal". Anyone get 42.1 this late at night ever?

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post #29 of 114 Old 04-08-2002, 09:21 PM
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Tim-

I received a memo from Jim Biggers, CE and he said the normal test schedule for 42 is 5PM to 11:30 PM EDT for now.
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post #30 of 114 Old 04-09-2002, 06:44 AM
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Yeah, Tim, what Don said.

But they were a little late switching over to the HD feed for "Yes, Dear" (about 1/3 was SD). It was interesting when "Baby Bob" came on. You could see the test pattern from WCBS New York since that show is in SD. They then threw the switch back over to the upconvert. (Obviously they noticed the big screen with colored stripes but couldn't know that "Yes Dear was 16:9 HD as opposed to 4:3 SD) I flipped over to HBO to watch BoB after that so I can't tell you if they made the switch back in time for the rest of the prime time line up.

Don, any word as to if the test schedule will be modified for the Masters?

Paul
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