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Old 12-20-2002, 04:43 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by gmanhdtv
Watched NBC 3-1 tonight at full strength, but notice that FOX tunes in at 24-2 but call letters without picture also appear as 24-1??? Anyone else picking up Fox as 24-2 ?? Picture and sound is fine but a hassle to "skip" past 24-1 to receive 24-2!

I have a Samsung TS-160 and get Fox on 24-1 also. No signal on 24-2. I'm not sure why your getting them on 24-2. Can you remove 24-1 from the program guide using some sort of custom channel guide?

Also, in regards to the TS-160, a firmware upgrade is now being transmitted by DirecTV. This upgrade fixes a lot of the problems people have been seeing. I had stated before the TS-160 has some problems, but with the upgrade, I'd say it's a good choice if someone is shopping for a HD receiver.

Dave G.
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Old 12-20-2002, 04:55 AM
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The simultaneous output of HD and SD is the biggest draw to the TS-160. This allows you to watch programs in High Definition and record them on a Tivo or ReplayTV, albeit in Standard Definition. With most other HD tuners you have to manually switch the output, which is not only a pain, but if you forget, you record a blue screen.

David
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Old 12-20-2002, 08:03 AM
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David,
I exchanged email with a fellow from Cox Kansas and I asked for an update on HDTV through Cox. The reason I ask is because where I live, I do not get either of the topeka stations OTA. He said that they were waiting on a cheaper Motorola box to come out. He said they have no reason to not want to offer this service, but they could not recoop the cost of the tuner box yet. He sounded like they really want to do it, but cannot justify the tuner cost.

tim


BTW: If there are any Royals fans in Wichita, please call Cox and tell them you want them to pickup the Royals Television Network or we will get NO games on TV this year!!!
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Old 12-22-2002, 12:05 PM
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Although FOX has no programming in HDTV, they do offer 1 or 2 NFL games each week in 480p widescreen. I have yet to see one of these games passed through in this format by KSAS. Today's NYG vs. IND game is an example. In another forum, there are comments that it is in 16:9 format. Not the case here in Wichita.

Are they incapable or simply choosing not to do so?
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Old 12-22-2002, 12:54 PM
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I suspect they just don't know any better, like the issue they had with including the wrong channel number in their broakcast signal, so that it showed up as their Salina affiliate's number 18-1. I will send an email to my contact there and I suggest you do too, along with anyone else who watches football games on KSAS-DT. There is no reason I can think of to broadcast a DTV signal in 4:3.

David
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Old 12-22-2002, 04:13 PM
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David,

Thanks for the info. I'll send KSAS an e-mail. Maybe they can figure it out in time for the playoffs...

Mike
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Old 01-01-2003, 11:49 AM
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I got a reply from KSAS's engineer, and they are waiting on some additional equipment which will allow them to pass on FOX's widescreen broadcast. Sounds like it might be a corporate budgeting decision. Anyway, it probably won't be until after the NFL playoffs...

While I'm on this topic, does anyone else get a lot of pixelization during NFL games on KSAS's digital channel? Their signal strength is excellent at my location, almost topping out the meter. But these games are unwatchable in their current state. I haven't noticed pixelization on other FOX programming--just NFL. Since I don't really watch any FOX programs, I can only comment on what I've seen when surfing through the channels on my HDTV tuner. Upconvert issue? Perhaps this is related to the equipment they are waiting on??

Oh well, thankfully CBS is doing the AFL divisional and championship games in HD...then ABC has the superbowl!

Mike
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Old 01-01-2003, 04:00 PM
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I setup a guy yesterday and was getting the KAAS channel 17 out of Salina and there was a pulsing line that moved up the picture. Very odd. I only watched The Caroline Rhea show, so I cant comment on football.

Anyone else notice the lines??
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Old 01-02-2003, 01:03 PM
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Tom Gateway, station manager of UPN-KANSAS says KSCC-DT could be on the air as soon as today. I'm not going to "hold him to it" since UPN has no HD material at this time, but it will still be nice to have the digital broadcast. Even NTSC looks at least a little better in digital due to the lack of noise, ghosts, etc.

KSCC-DT will be found at first on physical channel 35. After that, if they have things configured correctly, you should be able to tune to either 35 or 36-1.

David
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Old 01-09-2003, 06:17 PM
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I live in El Dorado and have been getting drop outs from Wichita channel 19. They only last 1-2 seconds, at the most 4-6 seconds. I have a good signal and the 19 icon in the corner stays on, just lose picture and sound. Is anyone else haveing this happen?

John
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Old 01-09-2003, 09:35 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by tworow
I live in El Dorado and have been getting drop outs from Wichita channel 19. They only last 1-2 seconds, at the most 4-6 seconds. I have a good signal and the 19 icon in the corner stays on, just lose picture and sound. Is anyone else haveing this happen?

John

I was getting the same thing on Monday--haven't watched anything since then to know if it's still happening. I also can confirm that the 19 icon was still on the screen. My signal for KWCH is very good, as well.

I hope this doesn't occur during the AFC playoff games...I have people coming over to see this wonderful new technology!

Mike
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Old 01-09-2003, 11:02 PM
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KWCV-DT (WB) is back up.

I'm still not finding KSCC-DT (UPN) but maybe I'm looking for it in the wrong place too. They had told me they might be up as soon as last Friday. Guess I'll send another email and see if I can get an update on their status.

David
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Old 01-10-2003, 11:17 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by gmanhdtv
Watched NBC 3-1 tonight at full strength, but notice that FOX tunes in at 24-2 but call letters without picture also appear as 24-1??? Anyone else picking up Fox as 24-2 ?? Picture and sound is fine but a hassle to "skip" past 24-1 to receive 24-2!

I am picking up FOX today as 26-1 and 26-2. They seem to be messing around with their PSIP.

David
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Old 01-10-2003, 11:26 AM
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I watched Mayberry RFD this morning. :-)

I pointed out to Tom Gateway, station manager of KSCC that KSCC-DT is showing up as 35-1 rather than 36-1
Quote:


I hesitate to say anything on this momentous occasion, but KSCC-DT is showing up as 35-1, which is the physical channel, rather than 36-1 which is where it "logically" should be showing up. No big deal, just mentioning it.

Tom replied
Quote:


it should be 35...we will drop 36 when 80% of country has digital.

Here is my reply:
Quote:


Tom,

KSNW is digital channel 45, analog channel 3, and shows up on my HD receiver as 3-1
KAKE is digital channel 21, analog channel 10, and shows up on my HD receiver as 10-1
KWCH is digital channel 19, analog channel 12, and shows up on my HD receiver as 12-1
KWCV is digital channel 31, analog channel 33, and shows up on my HD receiver as 33-1

The physical digital channels are being "mapped" to the analog channel number. Note, the DTV channels can be tuned as EITHER their analog number with a "-1" OR as their physical channel. The digital channels show up next to the analog channels in my channel guide.

KSAS is digital channel 26, analog channel 24, and shows up on my HD receiver as 26-1
KSCC is digital channel 35, analog channel 36, and shows up on my HD receiver as 35-1

FOX and UPN are not mapping the digital channels to the analog channel numbers.

Mapping the physical digital channel to the analog channel is a convenience to consumers. Stations also tend to be known as much or more by their channel number than by their network affiliation or station call letters, so it helps them retain their "identity". Are you going to change your signature line to "UPN Kansas (KSCC) Ch. 6/35/36"? :-)

David

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Old 01-11-2003, 05:32 AM
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At the moment, I'm getting all 6 digital stations on their appropiate re-mapped channels including KSAS (24-1) and KSCC (36-1). Either they've fixed the PSIP data or it's a difference between HD receivers.

Just as a data point. As I've stated before in this thread, I'm using a Samsung TS-160 and a simple Radio Shack indoor double bowtie antenna on the east side of Wichita to get all 6 channels. I do have some trouble tuning NBC and CBS due to weaker signals from those stations. I can get either of them reliably, but sometimes I can't get them both with the same antenna position.

Also, there was some discussion about the TS-160's problems. Since the firmware upgrade a few weeks ago, it has been much more reliable. It still has a couple of little quirks, but I do recommend it now.

Dave G.
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Old 01-11-2003, 05:53 AM
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I received the following email yesterday from John Cyphers, station engineer for KSAS and KSCC, after telling them about the incorrect channel numbers. It confirms and explains the issues we have observed. The reference in the first paragraph to Salina is in regard to at one time KSAS-DT showing up in my channel guide as 18-1, which is the channel number for the Salina station. One yet unanswered question is why KSAS is showing up with TWO subchannels, but I haven't gotten an answer to that yet.
Quote:


This was one of several things under debate, and we had researched it with one of our equipment manufacturers, who incorrectly said it should be our digital channel designation. The Salina channel being involved was because the manufacturer sent the equipment preprogrammed, but had our call letters backwards thinking KAAS was our main channel. So the first part of learning the equipment was changing the call letters.

So after checking with the manufacturer again, they agreed with you that the Major channel # goes with the analog transmitter for marketing purposes. Doesn't make sense engineering wise because channels used to match with certain frequencies, and by every station claiming a different frequency matches a different channel, it throws the whole frequency chart out of whack. i.e. - channel 3 used to have a lower frequency related to it than channel 10 (follows common sense 3<10) but now channel 10 (DT 21) has a lower frequency than channel 3 (DT 45). So a channel 10 in Wichita, won't have the same broadcast frequency as a channel 10 in San Antonio.

As soon as I got off the phone, I changed the major numbers in our PSIP, so you should receive Fox on 24-1, and UPN on 36-1. On our equipment we punch in the actual channel #'s 26 and 35, so we never noticed this problem.

I would like to thank Tom Gateway (Gdisis) and Jon Cyphers for their great attitude and responsiveness in getting these issues fixed so quickly.

David
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Old 01-11-2003, 05:58 AM
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That's fantastic! They have been very helpful. It's great to have such good support from our local stations. I think Wichita is ahead of many major metropolitan areas in regards to digital OTA programming.

Dave G.
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Old 01-11-2003, 12:44 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by talon95
I think Wichita is ahead of many major metropolitan areas in regards to digital OTA programming.

Dave G.

Actually Dave, I wonder how many areas in the whole USA can receive SIX networks with a $25 antenna with no exotic placement, rotors, signal amps, or other "trickery". My brother lives in the south Bay, in the foothills, with line-of-site to San Francisco and San Jose, and yet he can't seem to pick up six stations. "Mark's Monday Memo" talks about the problems around New York, where a receiver in a tower with line of sight to the Empire State Building cannot pick up stations broadcasting from there. Now I'm curious. Where to find such information?

The upshot is that although all but one of our local stations missed their initial FCC "deadline" for broadcasting in digital, and although it has seemingly taken forever to get to this point, Wichita is now literally at the forefront in adopting this new technology. Unfortunately I must now ask the rhetorical question: How many homes in Wichita are equiped to RECEIVE this cornucupia of digital wonder? Another rhetorical question: How many retailers are showing an OTA signal on their HD and HD-Ready TV's? How do we now "take this technology to the masses?"

David
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Old 01-11-2003, 02:10 PM
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Relating to my previous post, I sent the following email to Mark Schubin, author of Mark's Monday Memo
Quote:


Mark,

Residents of humble Wichita Kansas are now able receive SIX networks OTA in digital: ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, UPN, WB.

What's more, we can do this with a simple antenna, with no towers, rotors, or other "trickery". Install a $50 Radio Shack antenna in the attic or other easily accessible place, point it for maximum signal, and fugettaboutit. How common is this? I mean, I read all the time about the problems you yourself have with reception, and anecdotal evidence from all around the country, from New York to San Francisco, so might Wichita even be "unique" in this regard?

David Hays

Here is Mark's reply. Note, the bold-face text is mine.
Quote:


Not at all unique. I just got a message from someone 25 miles outside of Chicago who gets 13 stations, which is three more than Linx even attempted (and five more than they reliably received).

I would say a majority of people have little or no trouble receiving DTT. The problem is no one knows whether that majority is 51% or 99%. If 51%, then about 140 million people have problems. If 99%, it's only 3 million.

FYI, I live in Manhattan, in a 16-story building surrounded by other tall buildings. But I'm only two miles from the Empire State Building and get very good analog off-air reception.

TTFN,
Mark

I believe DTT stands for Digital Terrestrial Transmission, but that's just an educated guess.

Linx must be some kind of test that was conducted, maybe by, or on behalf of, the FCC? Again, this is just a guess. I'm too lazy at the moment to do a search. If I did I'd be reading for the rest of the afternoon.

David
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Old 01-11-2003, 02:28 PM
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The following is a link to a press release from the CEA (Consumer Electronics Association) about an agreement reached between consumer electronics companies and the cable industry to provide cable-ready HDTV's:

Cable and Consumer Electronics Companies Reach Key Agreement on Digital TV Transition Issues

DTT stands for Digital Terrestrial Television.


Linx is
Quote:


LINX Electronics Inc. designs, develops, patents, and markets products and services to the digital television (DTV) market. Using proprietary technologies, LINX is designing and developing complex integrated circuits and systems that allow optimal DTV signal reception, highly integrated HDTV video decoding, and efficient datacasting.

David
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Old 01-16-2003, 04:31 PM
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I'm getting occasional pixelization on UPN. I'm showing plenty of signal, 70-80. Is anyone else seeing this problem?

Dave G.
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Old 01-20-2003, 07:01 PM
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Whenever I try to watch a HD movie on KAKE, lip synch is a problem. Sound of Music was slightly off, for example, but tonight's The Rock is far enough out of synch that it is not worth watching. KAKE is the only digital station on which I have this problem. CBS's HD shows are perfectly synched, as are NBC's. Anyone else seeing this?

I'll have to check out some of ABC's other HD programming to see if the lip synch problem is there, too. Fortunately, the few HD shows I do like to watch are on CBS and NBC.

I am using a Zenith HDV420 tuner, with component connection to a Pioneer RPTV. My Pioneer is not capable of showing 720p, so I have my tuner set to output at 1080i (the tuner upconverts the 720p). Audio is optical out to a Kenwood receiver. Anyway, could be an upconvert issue with the Zenith, I suppose.
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Old 01-20-2003, 07:16 PM
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It's fine right now for me. I've had problems like that though. Usually changing channels fixes it or maybe rebooting the receiver. I don't think it's KAKE, at least not this time.

Dave G.
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Old 01-20-2003, 09:26 PM
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I watched The Rock tonight on KAKE-DT and didn't notice any lip-sync problem. That's weird.

David
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Old 01-20-2003, 09:37 PM
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Is anyone getting sound on KWCV-DT (WB 33-1)? I sent an email to station engineer Marty Heffner and he said he's not showing any problem on his equipment. I get a very low level of sound on my Hughes E86 STB. I can get sound, but I have to turn the volume way up, and then remember to back it down before changing channels or I get blasted. Like the lip sync problem with The Rock reported above, this may be some issue with my setup (although it's odd that it effects both of my HD receivers), so I'd like to know if anyone is experiencing this problem, or NOT experiencing this problem.

UPN (36-1) is having a problem with "vertical interval", which shows as a band of black-and-white "hyroglyphics" at the top of the screen. Station engineer Jon Cyphers is "working on it".

OT, I watched the AFC championship game in HD on Sunday. Now THAT'S the way football is supposed to be watched. Not all of the cameras were HD, so some shots had black bars on the side, and the view from the blimp looked AWFUL, but all-in-all, I'm not complaining. They did a very nice job, and I look forward to watching the Super Bowl in HD.

David
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Old 01-21-2003, 04:06 AM
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I've been able to get sound for WB, but a couple of times I had to flip back and forth between channels before the sound would sync. So, I'd say I've had problems, just not as severe. Right now as I type this it's working fine though.

UPN is pretty screwed up for me. I get the black bars with moving dots and I also get a lot of break up/pixelization most of the time.

The AFC game was great. OTOH, the NFC game on Fox was terrible. In high motion scenes I was getting severe pixelization. It looked like a low bitrate video clip on my PC. A friend of mine was having the same problem. He has a Mits receiver.

Dave G.
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Old 01-21-2003, 06:44 AM
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Oops, I partly mis-read your post Dave. I should have stated that yes I do get full volume sound on WB, although sometimes I have trouble getting it to sync. I did notice my receiver was showing DD2.1 instead of PCM. I'm not sure if they've always broadcasted DD2.1. If not, then that could have something to do with it not working for you now.

Dave G.
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Old 01-21-2003, 08:05 AM
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I really envy you guys down there in Wichita. It's not that far, but far enough for me to not be able to get any signals from there. Up here, there are three digitals, CBS, NBC, and FOX, but I cannot get any because of the hills. O well.


Good work!
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Old 01-21-2003, 12:22 PM
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I got an email this morning from Jon Cyphers, engineer at Fox and UPN. This is a portion of it:
Quote:


My equipment wasn't showing the wrap around yesterday, so I went through a rebooting process, and it showed up. I was then able to adjust the Vertical interval out of the image. I also emailed my contact about your subchannel problem, and you are the only one with that problem that I have heard of.

I can confirm that this "wrapparound" problem I was seeing on FOX this weekend is gone.
I told Jon to forget I ever mentioned the subchannel thing...UNLESS and until someone else reports it with a different HD receiver. The issue is that I am seeing TWO subchannels on FOX, 24-1 and 24-2. This is not a problem, it's merely something I have observed. If anyone else sees a second subchannel on 24 (DTT physical channel 26), please report in, along with the make and model of your HD receiver.

David
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Old 01-21-2003, 06:26 PM
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The "vertical interval" problem is gone, although I'm still seeing pixelization on FOX and UPN. On FOX, it's a general effect over the entire image in high bit rate scenes (motion or transitions). UPN is a little more random and occurs locally around moving objects, but also in scene transitions.

Dave G.
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