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post #2821 of 3101 Old 06-10-2009, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by vblyth View Post

Unbelievable!!! Cox runs their damn emergency broadcast test during the last 5 seconds of the nba finals game. Does anyone give a damn about the viewer?

It is a required test. So when should they run it?

I'm sure some tech was sitting at his computer watching various channels and decided to mess up your game on purpose.

The test is always going to mess up someone's show.
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post #2822 of 3101 Old 06-11-2009, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jctiii View Post

There's no Analogue channel anymore. There most certainly is a Standard Definition channel.

KAKE-TV has one digital signal. Currently, with one channel.

It's always 720p, period.

When there is ABC HD programming...it's native 720p, passed directly from the ABC network to the transmitter. When there is SD programming (or ABC HD programming that must be down-converted to be passed through the SD Master Control plant to insert legal ID, crawls, etc.) it is SD that is then up-converted back to 720p with pillar bars and passed to the transmitter.

If the definition kept changing from SD to HD your digital TVs would briefly go to black, or lose sync and jump, with each format change.

Cable and sat providers take this and usually "center-punch" 4x3 and down-convert it, for their SD/analog customers.
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post #2823 of 3101 Old 06-11-2009, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klemsaba View Post

It is a required test. So when should they run it?

I'm sure some tech was sitting at his computer watching various channels and decided to mess up your game on purpose.

The test is always going to mess up someone's show.

They shouldn't have these tests anyway. Anyone knows, no matter how many times they test it, when they actually need it, it isn't going to work!

And using if for stuff like t-storm / tornado warnings is ridiculous. There are plenty of outlets for that type of information already in place.

Jeff
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post #2824 of 3101 Old 06-12-2009, 01:54 PM
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Have never really been able to receive KWCH-HD over the air in Wichita. Now (June 12) I lost channel 33 as well. At antennaweb.org, KWCH is not listed as an available station for zips 67202 or 67203. Have a rooftop antenna...would appreciate any suggestions.
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post #2825 of 3101 Old 06-12-2009, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bry4321 View Post

Have never really been able to receive KWCH-HD over the air in Wichita. Now (June 12) I lost channel 33 as well. At antennaweb.org, KWCH is not listed as an available station for zips 67202 or 67203. Have a rooftop antenna...would appreciate any suggestions.

KSCW is now on RF channel 19 (was KWCH-DT), broadcasting from near Buhler, close to Hutch.

They were on RF channel 31, broadcasting from near Colwich, close to Wichita.


KWCH moved from RF channel 19 (now occupied by KSCW-DT) back to VHF RF Channel 12 with 19.1kW ERP. Both locations near Buhler.

KWCH's parent company purchased KSCW, so the consolidation of their transmitters near Hutch has been in the works for a while.

It will take a higher gain antenna, and possibly a quality mast-mounted preamp, aimed at Hutch to get them, maybe.

Good luck!

Getting the "new" KWCH-DT will be the biggest challenge. If you received the "old" KWCH-DT...then you'll get the "new" KSCW-DT with no problems, since that transmitter/channel is being "recycled".
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post #2826 of 3101 Old 06-15-2009, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vblyth View Post

The bottom line is that KAKE should be embarrassed with the quality of the product they provide. As a consumer, we spend the money to upgrade to digital TVs and spend the money to obtain HD programming for them. As a network provider, KAKE should spend the money required to allow them to broadcast a major sporting event in HD while showing a weather crawl.

No wonder they no longer claim that "KAKE is on your side".

I will second that. It is absolutely embarrassing. KAKE has very quickly fallen behind here in Wichita, and their ratings are reflecting that.

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Originally Posted by jeffdb27 View Post

They shouldn't have these tests anyway. Anyone knows, no matter how many times they test it, when they actually need it, it isn't going to work!

And using if for stuff like t-storm / tornado warnings is ridiculous. There are plenty of outlets for that type of information already in place.

Jeff

The fact that in my lifetime I see the test every week, but I probably have seen an actual "WARNING" maybe two to three times. It becomes one of those things that when you see and hear it, you just ignore it. Boy who cried wolf if you will. Back in the Analog cable days, at least you could still see the programing, now your TV is taken over. I think the point here is that it is required, Cox can do nothing about that. I think once a week is overkill, but its an FCC thing, and we all know how easily things change with government agencies. The thing that Cox CAN do though is not run the test during late night programing. I can not tell you how many times The Daily Show or Colbert Report has been interrupted by that damn test. At the LEAST it should not be before 11 PM, the ideal time would be early morning, like 1-3 AM. That is something Cox CAN do.

I see the point, I mean, if there is a Tornado headed for my house, the heads up might be appreciated. And the key word being heads up. If they could run a crawler on ALL channels like what is run on the Broadcast network channels, I think we would all be much happier. Again, like back in the day when there was just a crawler over the programming. With these powerful STB's, they could even use the built in messages ability. Imagine this, Tornado Warning is issued, a little Opaque box pops up over your program telling you about it. You are free to dismiss it when you have read it. The key to having these alerts work well is for them not to be too obtrusive, but also not so common you just ignore them. Currently, they are ignored. I think the complain here is about the Tests, few people would actually complain about a Tornado Warning alert given there is actually a tornado on the ground headed toward you.

Its like the age old question, they test the Tornado Sirens, but if the siren doesn't work, how do you know it isn't? The one ended tests are so useless.
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post #2827 of 3101 Old 06-16-2009, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Squid7085 View Post

I will second that. It is absolutely embarrassing. KAKE has very quickly fallen behind here in Wichita, and their ratings are reflecting that.

No they don't. I've been shown copies from the Nielsen data.

They've had no fall-off, and are still #2 in news. They win the morning news, some weekend newscasts, and some of the key demographics in other newscasts.

They were #3 five years ago. KSNW has been #3 since then.
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post #2828 of 3101 Old 06-16-2009, 12:12 AM
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Update:

KWCH-DT has been approved by the FCC for a temporary (for now?) increase to 33.2kW ERP on channel 12.

Word is they are using the higher power level, as of this posting.
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post #2829 of 3101 Old 06-16-2009, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Zephyr View Post

Update:

KWCH-DT has been approved by the FCC for a temporary (for now?) increase to 33.2kW ERP on channel 12.

Word is they are using the higher power level, as of this posting.

Well that's good, maybe that will help some, although IMO the switch over from UHF to VHF is still a complete FAIL. Last night all of the UHF channels were rock solid during the storms, but KWCH in particular was a pixelated mess. It was rock solid when on UHF 19 during bad weather, but no more.

Admittedly I'm using a simple indoor VHF/UHF antenna, but all of the channels were rock solid when on UHF previously, so I didn't need anything else. I imagine even a rooftop antenna would not prevent the breakup from lightning though. VHF seems to simply be a lot more susceptible to noise/interference.
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post #2830 of 3101 Old 06-16-2009, 04:55 PM
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Since Friday I have only a black screen on the FOX translator up here in Salina. At that time, the channel started displaying at 18.1 whereas it used to be 24.1 even though it is still on channel 17.

I have three seperate tuners, all get plenty of signal, but no picture or sound. Just a black screen.

Anyone else having problems with this since Friday?

Thanks,
Jeff
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post #2831 of 3101 Old 06-17-2009, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffdb27 View Post

Since Friday I have only a black screen on the FOX translator up here in Salina. At that time, the channel started displaying at 18.1 whereas it used to be 24.1 even though it is still on channel 17.

I have three seperate tuners, all get plenty of signal, but no picture or sound. Just a black screen.

Well, one of my tuners now has picture and sound on KAAS. But my DISH Network vip622 reciver and another STB still only have a black screen and now sound.

Someone at KAAS suggested I rescan twice, once with the antenna connected and then again with it plugged back in. This did no good. Neither did a hard reset or resetting to factory settings then scanning again.

Is no one else having problems tuning into KAAS 18.1 (17) in the Salina area?

Thanks,
Jeff
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post #2832 of 3101 Old 06-18-2009, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffdb27 View Post

Well, one of my tuners now has picture and sound on KAAS. But my DISH Network vip622 reciver and another STB still only have a black screen and now sound.

On a DTVpal (made by Echostar/Dish), I had to manually delete the "old" channel first, before the STB would properly scan and acquire the same PSIP on a different RF channel.
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post #2833 of 3101 Old 06-18-2009, 01:28 PM
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I don't know if anyone here saw it, but Schurz has applied to swap KWCH-DT 12 and KSCW-DT 19 effective June 22. This would make KWCH's signal the same as it was prior to June 12.

- Trip

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post #2834 of 3101 Old 06-18-2009, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I don't know if anyone here saw it, but Schurz has applied to swap KWCH-DT 12 and KSCW-DT 19 effective June 22. This would make KWCH's signal the same as it was prior to June 12

Wow!

A very shrewd move.

If approved, then KSCW would have the "bad" signal into Wichita.

FWIW...the application for KSCW on channel 12 is 29.8kW ERP.
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post #2835 of 3101 Old 06-18-2009, 08:37 PM
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Yeah, there's apparently an interference concern with currently-silent KSQA in Topeka, so they can't keep it at the 33-ish kW they have on the air now once KSQA goes on the air (if it goes on the air).

- Trip

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post #2836 of 3101 Old 06-21-2009, 09:09 AM
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Anyone know when KSNW will get their HD signal back on? Sux to watch the Open in analog.
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post #2837 of 3101 Old 06-21-2009, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Double Eagle View Post

Anyone know when KSNW will get their HD signal back on? Sux to watch the Open in analog.

Funny I was about to post the same thing. If the Open was on KAKE we could just pretend there was severe weather! Speaking of which KAKE needs to gain the ability to insert warnings onto HD feeds quickly, or at least do what KWCH used to do and have a message to check the non-HD channel until their own system was up and running. So damned annoying to watch the crappy picture on that station during weather events.

I dunno but if I was over at KSN I'd be on the phone finding a charter plane to fly the part in NOW, or rather yesterday. :/
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post #2838 of 3101 Old 06-21-2009, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Hippster View Post

or at least do what KWCH used to do and have a message to check the non-HD channel until their own system was up and running.

See post #2822

There is no "non-HD channel" anymore. Dual analog/digital over-the-air broadcasts are no more, for full-power stations.

The SINGLE digital channel is down-converted by cable/sat providers for those using analog service. The "HD channel" on the cable/sat is the actual channel only being broadcast OTA.

Only the cable/sat provide must take it, and re-compress it, so they can squeeze it into their bandwidth. Digital TV is best viewed via antenna, for best picture quality.
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post #2839 of 3101 Old 06-21-2009, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Zephyr View Post

See post #2822

There is no "non-HD channel" anymore. Dual analog/digital over-the-air broadcasts are no more, for full-power stations.

The SINGLE digital channel is down-converted by cable/sat providers for those using analog service. The "HD channel" on the cable/sat is the actual channel only being broadcast OTA.

Only the cable/sat provide must take it, and re-compress it, so they can squeeze it into their bandwidth. Digital TV is best viewed via antenna, for best picture quality.

Oh I know I read that post and understand it. I was just ranting there are better means of dealing with HD now than what KAKE is doing-- which is next to nothing.
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post #2840 of 3101 Old 06-22-2009, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Kansas Zephyr View Post

See post #2822

There is no "non-HD channel" anymore. Dual analog/digital over-the-air broadcasts are no more, for full-power stations.

The SINGLE digital channel is down-converted by cable/sat providers for those using analog service. The "HD channel" on the cable/sat is the actual channel only being broadcast OTA.

Only the cable/sat provide must take it, and re-compress it, so they can squeeze it into their bandwidth. Digital TV is best viewed via antenna, for best picture quality.

So what you are saying is.....If Closed captioning works on OTA HD but does NOT when cable sends the signal out...THen COX CABLE is responsible for the Closed Captioning not working??? Is that a fair statement?
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post #2841 of 3101 Old 06-22-2009, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I don't know if anyone here saw it, but Schurz has applied to swap KWCH-DT 12 and KSCW-DT 19 effective June 22. This would make KWCH's signal the same as it was prior to June 12.

- Trip

On Friday night, Roger Cornish admitted that Channel 12 was getting calls about poor reception and they showed a video of how to align your "rabbit ear" antenna to improve your reception. If the above quote is saying that KWCH is moving their signal back to UHF, hooray!

Vern
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post #2842 of 3101 Old 06-22-2009, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by drcwks View Post

So what you are saying is.....If Closed captioning works on OTA HD but does NOT when cable sends the signal out...THen COX CABLE is responsible for the Closed Captioning not working??? Is that a fair statement?

Well...yes.

If the OTA signal has working CC, then the cable or sat provider is on-the-hook if it isn't passing through their systems.
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post #2843 of 3101 Old 06-22-2009, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Hippster View Post

Oh I know I read that post and understand it. I was just ranting there are better means of dealing with HD now than what KAKE is doing-- which is next to nothing.

Yeah...I get it.

But, KAKE hasn't laid-off several people and forced everybody to take a week unpaid furlough like KWCH this past month either.
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post #2844 of 3101 Old 06-22-2009, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I don't know if anyone here saw it, but Schurz has applied to swap KWCH-DT 12 and KSCW-DT 19 effective June 22. This would make KWCH's signal the same as it was prior to June 12.

- Trip

The application asked for 9am today to be the time of the switch.

As of 12 noon, however, KWCH-DT is still on 12...and KSCW-DT is still on 19.
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post #2845 of 3101 Old 06-22-2009, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Zephyr View Post

The application asked for 9am today to be the time of the switch.

As of 12 noon, however, KWCH-DT is still on 12...and KSCW-DT is still on 19.

It doesn't look like the FCC approved it...

- Trip

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post #2846 of 3101 Old 06-22-2009, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Yeah, there's apparently an interference concern with currently-silent KSQA in Topeka, so they can't keep it at the 33-ish kW they have on the air now once KSQA goes on the air (if it goes on the air).

- Trip

According to the STA request:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...911&q_num=5200

...it's because 29.8kW is all their transmitter will push and be stable.
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post #2847 of 3101 Old 06-22-2009, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Zephyr View Post

There is no "non-HD channel" anymore. Dual analog/digital over-the-air broadcasts are no more, for full-power stations.
.

Just to reiterate, with the shutdown of KAKE's analog channel 10 on February 17, 2009, there is only ONE signal being broadcast, an ATSC 720p DIGITAL signal on VHF Channel 10. The old digital broadcasts on UHF Channel 21 are gone forever!!

And, yes, there's only one feed going to Cox cable and AT&T UVerse now, the same thing that's broadcast over the air. Before the transition, the analog side (VHF Ch. 10) could broadcast the ABC SDTV network feed with severe weather tickers, while the digital side (UHF Ch. 21) was being fed with the direct ABC HDTV network feed WITHOUT tickers.

As of June 2, ABC dropped their SD satellite feed, as they're only sending affilates a full time HD feed, with some shows (especially reality programming) being upconverted for broadcast.

If you see a 4x3 picture on ABC and your Dolby Digital 5.1 audio indicator is on, then you're watching an ABC network upconverted show. Non-network local progamming on KAKE is always in Dolby Digital 2.0 audio.

The reason it looks like the old analog signal at times is that in order to put in the severe weather information, the ABC network HDTV feed must be downconverted to standard definition to run through their plant (and compostite analog at that, not even serial digital), as at present there is no way for them to insert anything over HD programming. This includes tickers, maps, crawls and EAS notices.

The resulting SD composite mush is then upconverted back to HD for broadcast.

I've been told they're working on a way to accomplish staying in HD all the time during network programming, but it all boils down to time and especially, the considerable funds to buy the necessary equipment, which is something that should have been done a long time ago, IMO!!
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post #2848 of 3101 Old 06-22-2009, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Zephyr View Post

...it's because 29.8kW is all their transmitter will push and be stable.

Hm, I'd missed that footnote. I had thought this was applicable:

" As reflected in Sunflower's June 12 STA request, that power would only cause predicted interference to an unbuilt and un-applied for allocation in Topeka."

But it isn't.

- Trip

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post #2849 of 3101 Old 06-22-2009, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by schick81 View Post

Just to reiterate...

Yeah...like I said in post #2822.

But they are using SDI...not composite, according to their CE.
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post #2850 of 3101 Old 06-23-2009, 03:06 AM
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"...it's because 29.8kW is all their transmitter will push and be stable."

From what I've understood in the DTV transition status reports filed with the FCC by the station, this is the same transmitter formerly used in 316 kw analog service, and was converted to digital during the March to June period that it was shut down, so it seems like the transmitter should have all of the reserve power capability the FCC may ever permit.

However, maybe the new antenna and transmission line don't have the power handling ability that the old ones did.
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