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post #1 of 17 Old 04-22-2002, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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The hope here is to consolidate the CBS, WOIO, Cleveland threads. There is a general agreement that CBS is the least reliable and poorest performing Digital broadcast in the Cleveland area. I will let Harry Wilkens the Chief Engineer know about this thread and we can use it as a general forum for suggestions and complaints.

We all know that the signal is weak and their performance is inconsistent. Particularly annoying is the inability to maintain a HD broadcast for the entire show.

I hope this is helpful. And if there any other suggestions please fell free to post them.

Thanks and maybe we can get CBS to upgrade there equipment and performance.
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post #2 of 17 Old 04-22-2002, 10:53 AM
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And the fact is, it would not take a whole lot for WOIO to move ahead of the marginally more reliable WKYC. They have a long way to go to catch up to WEWS but its all about baby steps. Speaking of baby steps, What About Bob was a great flick that I haven't seen for quite a while. I think I'll remedy that.
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post #3 of 17 Old 04-22-2002, 01:31 PM
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I believe Mr. Wilkins has left WOIO. Jim Kopanski is now the chief engineer. Also, I am just SE of Akron about 30 miles from the transmitter and have been getting a stable signal since they fixed their hardware problem just before the Masters. I think the problem started sometime around the NCAA tournament. Before that I had no problems. As for increasing the strength of their signal, I don't think they can do it without permission from the FCC. I believe the problem is related to the fact that there is a channel 10 in Detroit that would be affected if the Cleveland channel 10 was any stronger. This is the impression I got from reading the posts in this forum. If this is not the case, someone will hopefully post here with more info.

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post #4 of 17 Old 04-22-2002, 08:17 PM
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This came from a reliable source who spoke to someone at WOIO. Part of the problem is the type of antenna that WOIO purchased. It turns out not to be good for this geographic area & now they are stuck with it. I don't know the specific details, but in short, the antenna puts out a spherical shaped signal instead of flat which the other stations use. The antenna just doesn't put the signal where it needs to be. I've heard it goes more up than across where it needs to go. The strength of the antenna is just fine, but it just doesn't get to us properly. So, the end result is that they don't actually have a weaker signal (thus some reports of them saying just that) than any of the other stations, but the signal is wasted because we don't get the direct hit from it. That's why we get anywhere from 50-65 only. They figured out that they could fix the situation by upping the signal strength, but that's where the Detroit station comes into play. Because it is on channel 10 as well, if WOIO increases their signal, it will cause a problem with the Detroit station. Because of this, there is no way to increase the output (the FCC won't let them).

There are only two ways to cure this problem & both are difficult & unlikely any time soon. One would be for the FCC to change WOIO's digital station to another channel which they don't want to do. The other would be for the station to purchase a new antenna which would be cost prohibitive. It seems as far as signal strength, this is it for a long time.

At any rate, I have not verified any of this myself, but it came from reliable sources. Keep in mind, this is my wording & interpretation of what I was told so just take the general idea of it. I think I got it fairly right though. Signal strength aside, there are plenty more things that WOIO needs to get better at such as programming choices (ie Masters) and most importantly, FLIPPING THE SWITCH 99% of the time at the very least.

-Todd
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post #5 of 17 Old 04-23-2002, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the updates. I know I have talked to Jim a couple of times and while he seems very open he has given unreliable information. An example is the Masters broadcast. He stated that they could not broadcast 2 different signals at the same time and therefore we were left with USA and Judge Judy. Clearly they could broadcast 2 signals for that is exactly what they did on Sat and Sun.


Todd, your right on about the flipping of the switch. They can't get even get it right during a broadcast, yet they always get it for the commercials. I get the impression of some geek in the control room surfing the net and eating junk food. It almost makes me want to laugh, but....

Any other suggestions or comments on how we can get some improvement would be great.
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post #6 of 17 Old 04-23-2002, 11:19 AM
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CBS is the best!
I get 100 signal readings on CBS, and I get 50 signal readings for every other station. You guys are nuts when you say they forget to flip the switch. I have never seen a program where they have forgotten.
The antenna is broke you say, I dont believe this. As I said before, I am getting a 100 signal reading, and I dont even use an antenna! I live in Florida, but WOIOs signal is sooooo strong, I can enjoy Clevelands CBS over here. Keep up the good work WOIO. You are really reaching everyone.

OK, well I am not really in Florida, and I am only getting a 38 signal reading as of yesterday evening, and I do have an antenna on the roof, and I only live about 9 miles from the tower, and they are awful at the switch.

CBS, you've got to love them:D

Fred

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post #7 of 17 Old 04-23-2002, 11:40 AM
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Fred I think WOIO went with that spherical digital antenna just so that the signal would curve right around your antenna missing it entirely. The good news is that people on Mars get the direct hit from it so we have that option. At least that's what Jim K. at WOIO told me. ;)

-Todd
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post #8 of 17 Old 04-23-2002, 11:42 AM
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:D

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post #9 of 17 Old 04-24-2002, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay Fred, you got me! I thought you were serious at first. I was reading your post while drinking my morning coffee :) and fell for it.

I haven't been home the last couple of evenings but I am guessing there is no change. Maybe if we get enough people on this thread and they all send emails and voicemails we can make a difference. Do you happen to have an email address for engineering?

The phone numnber and contact is Jim Kopanski 216-367-7455.
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post #10 of 17 Old 04-24-2002, 11:34 AM
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Maybe they can sell that antenna on Ebay??:D

Okay, well maybe that isn't the best solution. But why couldn't they sell it to one of the thousand other smaller market stations that will need that sort of antenna for their geography at a cost reduction? Do they have a specific HD antenna? Or is this affecting the analog too?

Should the viewers suffer because one of the engineers made a HUGE mistake and somehow forgot that our geography was flat? I guess it's not surprising that WOIO did something half a**.

My solution would be to move the signal to UHF (why aren't they all in the UHF range anyway??) and increase the power. Even with a power increase the signal should reach farther anyway. (at least I would think so, but I am no engineer.)

The worst thing is that the station with the most HD offerings is WOIO.
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post #11 of 17 Old 04-24-2002, 08:17 PM
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Yep it's just their digital antenna that offends, not the analog. If they moved their channel to UHF they might not even need to boost the power as it should be a stronger signal anyway but the problem is the FCC won't let them switch as of now. Maybe they'll keep trying but it isn't looking good for that. It was the FCC who dished out the channels & I really don't know what their reasoning was to give them channel VHF 10. Since Detroit analog 10 is so close, it makes it more puzzling that the FCC did this.

I would agree that if it's possible, they should try to sell the antenna to a market where it will work best geographically & then purchase a new one that would work better here, but I guess that because they'd have to take a big loss on the thing & because a new one would cost even more, it isn't going to happen most likely. I guess the decision to purchase the antenna was a group effort from what I heard, not just one person's error.

The fact that 99% of their market isn't even using the antenna at all makes it fairly low priority budget wise for them is my guess as well. I wish that wasn't the case.
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post #12 of 17 Old 05-01-2002, 07:19 AM
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The purchase decision for an improper antenna wasn't anyone's fault; because it was a group effort!

Now I understand! Sounds like a "group grope--nobody's in charge" kind of place.

This explains why they can't get anyone to flip the switch on time when a high definition program is beginning. I imagine the group is responsible. They probably voted to see if it was important and either voted "no" or couldn't reach a consensus.

Unfortunately, we have a good business school case study for management ineptitude; but we don't have an alternative source for CBS high definition programming.
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post #13 of 17 Old 05-02-2002, 04:23 PM
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I've read all the comments regarding CBS with great interest. I've also talked to Jim and the other stations and received similar comments and advice.

After all is said and done, what I'd really like to know is if I should spend time and money trying to get the CBS signal where I live which is about 25 miles due south of the transmitter location in Parma. Right now I have a roof mounted Terk 55 amplified antenna which gives me a 0 to 12 % reading on the Toshiba DTS-3000 signal strength meter.

Will a larger passive antenna help or is just not possible to get an adequate signal where I am located regardless how large and how high the antenna is located.
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post #14 of 17 Old 05-02-2002, 07:03 PM
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I am in Rocky River, and I have a rooftop antenna.

The last time I checked the signal reading, I was getting a 31 for CBS.

It doesnt come in at all for me:mad:

The sad part is, nothing can be done about it.
Oh yea, for all of the others, I am getting a 100 signal reading.

Fred M. DeGrandis Jr.
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post #15 of 17 Old 05-02-2002, 09:36 PM
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I live in Twinsburg which is a good 25-30 miles from the tower. All I have is a Channel Master HDTV Stealthtenna mounted on a 6 foot poll in my back yard. I usually pull in a 57-65 (it goes up & down) with my Dish 6000, but it usually stablizes after a few seconds & is fine about 75% of the days. The other 30%, once in a while it'll breakup for 5-10 seconds then come back. That happens maybe 2 or 3 times during an hour show. The weather has a great deal to do with that as well. Clear days are much better.

So, compared to the the 95% for Fox & 90% for ABC, CBS is horrible, but, I do get it with a little bit of regularity.

-Todd

PS - I had a terk antenna & in my opinion, they are absolutly horrible. I had more luck with the $15 radioshack bowtie antenna to tell you the truth. Give the Channel Master Stealthtenna a shot. It's only $29 & is about 3 feet by 1 1/2 feet approx. so it's pretty small.
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post #16 of 17 Old 05-03-2002, 08:03 PM
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Hey did you guys notice that NBC split into 2.1, 2.2, 2.3?? They have the DTV/HDTV on .1, Digital version of their analog programming on .2 and they have doppler rader of the greater Cleveland area on .3. Curriously, the data rate must not be enough on .3 to register a picture (signal stength is the same as the others) but the station is pretty strong & comes in at 74. You can see the radar for a second if you change the station or change formatting. Very strange though.

-Todd

UPDATE- the radar comes in perfectly now...they must have done something to fix it.
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post #17 of 17 Old 05-05-2002, 01:06 PM
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Well, it appears that the antenna I first used, a Terk 55 was the problem in no getting decent signals from channels 3 and 5 and no signal at all from channel 19.

Using an ordinary passive antenna is now drawing all digital channels lould and clear.

Todd, it appears you were absolutely correct regarding Terk
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