KNTV - PSIP & Dish 6000 - warning geek alert - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 5 Old 04-22-2002, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Since the release of the new Dish 6K 2.54 release, I'm getting some wierd behavior off of KNTV. If I do the "Add DTV Channel" for channel 12, I get PSIP information which creates two sub-channels - 11.1 and 11.2 which show on the add channel channel-list as KNTV-HD and KNTV-SD. When I try to change channels to 11.2, the box freezes for about 10 seconds then unmaps and goes back to having only one subchannel on the unmapped frequency - 12.1.

As long as I stay off of 11.2 the mapping remains intact.

I've got a tool which let's me dump the PSIP data out of the stream (a HTPC with accessdtv card and some carefully modified software) and it seems to be indicating that the PSIP generator is either misconfigured or simply broken. Here's the dump of about a 50 second interval on KNTV tonight - my comments in <<>>

<<Master Guide table - item 1 (type 0) is the pointer to the VCT, item 2 is the pointer to this channels extended text table (ETT) - its plain text descriptor, the remaining items are either Event Information Tables or the EITs associated ETTs>>
MGT table - ver=0x1 items=0x7 descr_len=0x0
0 typ=0x301 pid=0x1ffb ver=0x01 size= 914 descr_len= 0
1 typ=0x000 pid=0x1ffb ver=0x01 size= 114 descr_len= 0
2 typ=0x004 pid=0x0f0a ver=0x01 size= 61 descr_len= 0
3 typ=0x100 pid=0x0e00 ver=0x01 size= 28 descr_len= 0
4 typ=0x101 pid=0x0e01 ver=0x01 size= 28 descr_len= 0
5 typ=0x102 pid=0x0e02 ver=0x01 size= 28 descr_len= 0
6 typ=0x103 pid=0x0e03 ver=0x01 size= 28 descr_len= 0


EIT table (pid 0xe00) - last_sect=0x0 bytes_checked=0xe
1. sect 0. len=0xb src_id=0x002 ver=0x01 proto_ver=0x0 num_events=0

<<The channel's ETT- note that this thin seems to be saying that 11.2 is a traffic camera - as I recall, it used to be back when they were starting up>>
ETT table (pid 0xf0a) - bytes_checked=0x3d
1. sect=0 len=0x16 ID_ext=0x0 ver=0x1 last_sect=0x0 ETM_id=2/0/0
strings = 1
strg 1. ISO_639_code=eng, segments=1
seg 1. comp_type=0x0 mode=0xff num_bytes=0x0
2. sect=0 len=0x21 ID_ext=0x0 ver=0x1 last_sect=0x0 ETM_id=3/0/0
strings = 1
strg 1. ISO_639_code=eng, segments=1
seg 1. comp_type=0x0 mode=0x0 num_bytes=0xb
strg_val=TRAFFIC CAM

<<Virtual Channel Table. This is one of the two most interesting tables. Note the definitions here for two sub channels. This disagrees with the PAT - no wonder the dish box is getting confused.>>
VCT table - ver=0x1 items=0x2 ts_stream_id=0x18d
0. name= KNTV-HD
maj=11 min=1 mod=0x4 freq=204310000 TSid=0x18d prog=1
etm=0x1 acc=0x0 hide=0x0 serv=0x2 s_id=0x2 pcr=0x11 descr_len=0x11
<<This sub channel has two streams - video (type 0x2) on pid 11
and AC3 audio (type 0x81) on pid 14)>>
0. stream=0x2 pid=0x11 lang_code=
1. stream=0x81 pid=0x14 lang_code=en
Tag=0xa1 (serv_location_descr), Len=0xf
e0 11 02 02 e0 11 00 00 00 81 e0 14 65 6e 00

pcr_pid=0x11
0. stream=0x2 (video) pid=0x11 lang_code=null
1. stream=0x81 (AC3-audio) pid=0x14 lang_code=en
<< the second sub channel - 11.2, but note it is expecting streams on pids 21 and 24>>
1. name= KNTV-SD
maj=11 min=2 mod=0x4 freq=204310000 TSid=0x18d prog=2
etm=0x1 acc=0x0 hide=0x0 serv=0x2 s_id=0x3 pcr=0x21 descr_len=0x11
0. stream=0x2 pid=0x21 lang_code=
1. stream=0x81 pid=0x24 lang_code=en
Tag=0xa1 (serv_location_descr), Len=0xf
e0 21 02 02 e0 21 00 00 00 81 e0 24 65 6e 00

pcr_pid=0x21
0. stream=0x2 (video) pid=0x21 lang_code=null
1. stream=0x81 (AC3-audio) pid=0x24 lang_code=en

EIT table (pid 0xe03) - last_sect=0x0 bytes_checked=0xe
1. sect 0. len=0xb src_id=0x003 ver=0x01 proto_ver=0x0 num_events=0

EIT table (pid 0xe01) - last_sect=0x0 bytes_checked=0xe
1. sect 0. len=0xb src_id=0x003 ver=0x01 proto_ver=0x0 num_events=0

<<Program association table - note that this is defining only one program with a Program Master Table on PID 10. Program number 0 is a special escape which is supposed to point to a Network Information Table- on pid 0ffe rather than being a real sub channel which points to a PMT>>
PAT table - ver=0x1 items=2 ts_stream_id=0x18d
0 prog=0x0000 pid=0x0ffe
1 prog=0x0001 pid=0x0010

<<This is the PMT for program 1 above - an audio stream, video stream plus some descriptors>>
PMT table - sect_len=0x54 prog #=0x1 ver=0x0 last_sect=0x0 tbl_len=0x57 PRC_
0x11
len_left=0x29 descr_len=0x1e
Tag=0x5 (registration_descr), Len=0x4
47 41 39 34
GA94
Tag=0x10 (smoothing_buf_descr), Len=0x6
c0 af c8 c0 02 00
Tag=0xa3 (component_name_descr), Len=0x8
01 65 6e 67 01 00 00 00

strings = 1
strg 1. ISO_639_code=eng, segments=1
seg 1. comp_type=0x0 mode=0x0 num_bytes=0x0
Tag=0x9 (CA_descr), Len=0x4
00 00 e0 10
stream_type =0x2 PID =0x11
Tag=0x2 (video_stream_descr), Len=0x3
22 44 5f
Tag=0x6 (data_stream_align_descr), Len=0x1
02
stream_type =0x81 PID =0x14
Tag=0x5 (registration_descr), Len=0x4
41 43 2d 33
AC-3
Tag=0x81 (ac3_audio_stream_descr), Len=0x6
08 38 05 00 00 00
Tag=0xa (ISO_639_lang_descr), Len=0x4
65 6e 67 00
Tag=0x6 (data_stream_align_descr), Len=0x1
01

EIT table (pid 0xe02) - last_sect=0x0 bytes_checked=0xe
1. sect 0. len=0xb src_id=0x002 ver=0x01 proto_ver=0x0 num_events=0

<< Note that this stream didn't include any PID 21 or PID 24 packets as they should have according to the above.>>
Transport Stream empty - terminating, no more pkts in get_next_transport_pkt
*** 101 MBytes processed @ 14 Mb/s***
*** 1581 pes_pkts processed ***
*** 1916 atsc_pkts, w/ distribution:
*** sst=54/54, mgt=1618/1, vct=244/1, rrt=0/0, dcct=0/0, dccsct=0/0
*** Dropped pkts (Continuity Counter Errors) = 30
*** Active PIDs in this stream ***
PID=0x0, ctrl_type=PAT, pkt_cnt=106
PID=0x10, ctrl_type=PMT, pkt_cnt=105
PID=0x11, ctrl_type=VIDEO, pkt_cnt=500868
PID=0x14, ctrl_type=AUDIO_AC3, pkt_cnt=11777
PID=0x59, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=2
PID=0xbc, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0xcb, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x1a6, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=2
PID=0x28d, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x46c, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x574, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x5cb, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x66a, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x672, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=2
PID=0x97e, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0xc53, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0xe00, ctrl_type=EIT, pkt_cnt=301
PID=0xe01, ctrl_type=EIT, pkt_cnt=107
PID=0xe02, ctrl_type=EIT, pkt_cnt=109
PID=0xe03, ctrl_type=EIT, pkt_cnt=107
PID=0xeba, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0xf0a, ctrl_type=ETT, pkt_cnt=244
PID=0xf15, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=2
PID=0xf5f, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=2
PID=0x12bd, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x15eb, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x177f, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=2
PID=0x1861, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x1ae5, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=2
PID=0x1b42, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x1d16, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x1e82, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x1e87, ctrl_type=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=1
PID=0x1ffb, ctrl_type=ATSC, pkt_cnt=1916
PID=0x1fff, ctrl_type=NULL, pkt_cnt=24378

My question - how do I get this in the appropriate hands over at KNTV?

Mike
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post #2 of 5 Old 04-23-2002, 06:25 AM
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Call them and ask for the "Chief Engineer"

Studio Broadcast Engineer
KET
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post #3 of 5 Old 04-23-2002, 07:49 AM
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How do I get a copy of the software you used? I'm always looking for new tools to analyze our DTV stream for just such things as you have found.

BTW, most of it is correct. Within the standard it is not totally improper to 'announce' a stream (the missing 11-2) that is not currently being broadcast though the draft 'recommended practice' suggests transmitting a still image indicating that. The 6000, and other tuners, are supposed to default to the first sub-channel (11-1) if they come upon a missing service rather than puke.

If you are REALLY geeky you can get all of the details on PSIP in:

ATSC Document A/65A and Amendment No. 1 - Program and System Information Protocol for Terrestrial Broadcast and Cable
http://www.atsc.org/standards/A65-A.pdf

And a PSIP Tutorial at http://www.sarnoff.com/government_pr...rial/index.asp
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post #4 of 5 Old 04-23-2002, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually, it is improper for the VCT to include a service_location_descriptor for a channel that's inactive (6.7.2 in the PSIP std). I think that's probably why the DISH box keeps blowing its mapping. And I believe (don't have ref in front of me) that the MPEG2 transport PSI information is supposed to be in sync with the ATSC PSIP info.

There are a bunch of good tools at NIST - see http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/cmr/dase/tools.html

Re: calling them - was hoping for an email address so I could forward the above.
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post #5 of 5 Old 04-23-2002, 10:08 PM
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I've been sending e-mails to KNTV for months complaining about the ssssllllooowww sync-up time when changing channels to KNTV-HD. Along with the complaint about the PSID info being wrong. It seems that the sync-up time has been fixed as of late last week.
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