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post #451 of 6617 Old 09-11-2003, 04:37 PM
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FYI, WDTN-DT 50 is currently off air.

Jeff
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post #452 of 6617 Old 09-12-2003, 12:04 PM
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I called WDTN, no one could give me an ETA on how long the digital Channels would be out of service.
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post #453 of 6617 Old 09-12-2003, 05:11 PM
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WDTN-DT's Chief Engineer Just sent me a note concerning their current "off air" status -- What's really neat is, I haven't even asked him yet --

Jeff,

Just wanted to let you know that we have experienced a catastrophic
tube failure. We ordered a new tube and it will hopefully be here next
Thursday. I regret the delay and inconvenience.
Also, will you post a note on the AVS so others will know.

Thanks,

Jim Atkinson
WDTN-2
WDTN-DT-50

--------------------

Jeff
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post #454 of 6617 Old 09-15-2003, 12:02 PM
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thanks for the info Jeff!!

Buckeye1010
Dayton, OH
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post #455 of 6617 Old 09-20-2003, 06:07 AM
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Just an update, I spoke with Jim @ WDTN on Thurs. All the replacement parts had arrived & he expected to be back up that day.... Hopefully before MNF.
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post #456 of 6617 Old 09-20-2003, 09:28 AM
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Thanks, parrot1. I've missed WDTN-HD since I don't get the Cincinnati stations with my attic antenna.

Kevin
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post #457 of 6617 Old 09-20-2003, 12:17 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by parrot1
Just an update, I spoke with Jim @ WDTN on Thurs. All the replacement parts had arrived & he expected to be back up that day.... Hopefully before MNF.

Saturday 2pm, back up.

jim
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post #458 of 6617 Old 09-20-2003, 04:41 PM
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WDTN-DT seems to be back off air at 6:40pm, also, I'm seeing a problem we've seen before from WRGT-DT AND WKEF-DT. They are on the air, but they aren't putting out a signal neither of my receivers can recognize. On a non-screen muting analog TV, I'm hearing a ~110HZ audio buzz on both Ch 30 and Ch 51. Last time this happened, it was a problem with their exciter(s), but, last time(about a year ago) it didn't happen with both stations at the same time ....

Jeff

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post #459 of 6617 Old 09-20-2003, 04:57 PM
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Similar problem here, Jeff. No signal detected from these three stations.

Kevin
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post #460 of 6617 Old 09-20-2003, 05:12 PM
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Kevin,

When it rains it pours I guess! I have 4 stations "missing". WXIX-DT (Fox Widescreen Cincinnati) Has been in "Blank screen mode" for 2 days now. Plenty of signal from them as normal(meter "pegged" on the receivers), but noone can see it as they have something wrong. Last time this happened with them(Late July 2003), they had to reboot The computer that controls their Encoder to fix the problem. Sent WXIX-DT a note last night, but I guess they don't mind paying the transmiiter bills and sending out a blank screen, instead of properly monitoring their off-air signal.

Anyhow, I Just Sent WKEF-DT/WRGT-DT engineering a note, hopefully they'll "remember" what went wrong when this happened last year, as you wouldn't BELEIEVE what I had to go through on this issue the first time(Sept. 2002).

It's a long explanation, but via other means besides my DTV receivers I can tell WRGT-DT/WKEF-DT are currently putting out a strong signal as normal, but it's not a "proper" signal that our DTV receiver's can detect. Although it's possible someone may still be receiving them -- Last time, the only receiver I know that was working for them was WKEF/WRGT's receiver in their "basement" for some, odd reason ....


8PM Update:

WDTN-DT 50 - On air -- Seems fine
WKEF-DT 51 - Off air - REally off air now
WRGT-DT 30 - Off air - Really off air now
WXIX-DT 29(Cincy) - STill in "blank Screen Mode.

So, as far as the Dayton stations go, looks like they've got it "figured out", or are working on it.

UPDATE #2 - 8:30pm

All seems well now with all 6 Dayton Digital Stations. At ~8:20pm WKEF-DT and WRGT-DT came back on air with a "good" signal. Only problem is, 8:30pm "Whoopi" is not HD on WKEF-DT, it is in HD on WLWT-DT, NBC Cincinnati.

Jeff
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post #461 of 6617 Old 09-21-2003, 09:36 AM
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Thanks for the info, Jeff. As per your last update, all the Dayton stations are still back up as of 11:15 AM.

I'm using MyHD MDP-100 and MDP-120 tuner/decoder cards in separate computers to receive and record HDTV as well as a stand-alone Samsung SIR-TS151 receiver, which is currently loaned out to a friend. I generally get good reception on two different attic antennas, though one has multipath problems with WDTN-HD.

Since I'm stuck with an attic antennas, I get no Cincinnati or Columbus stations. Fortunately, I'm only 10 miles from the Dayton broadcast towers and do OK if I use preamplifiers.

I appreciate the efforts you have made to keep the HDTV broadcasts going in Dayton. It seems like a struggle since the local stations know their bread and butter is still cable and analog. Gradually, as more of us let them know that there is a growing HDTV audience, they will hopefully put more resources into their HDTV broadcasts.

I occasionally try contact the stations if I notice a problem, since they amazingly sometimes do not seem to realize that there is no decodable HDTV signal. If you need another voice to let them know when the signal goes awry, feel free to PM me with your Dayton contact points you have found to be useful.

Kevin
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post #462 of 6617 Old 09-21-2003, 02:06 PM
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Kevin,

Thanks. I generally use the contact info which is shown on the stations' websites. There is a list of the Dayton stations with links to their websites here :

http://100kwatts.tmi.net/tv/DAY.html

Haven't had much luck finding good contact info for WHIO, however.

I think anyone can help by contacting the stations and letting them know they are watching, what we think of their PQ/etc. and that we want HD. I think, for the most part(jinx alert!) The local stations do a good job sending us a good signal, and that at this stage of the game, it's understandable, that it might take longer to get some problems fixed with the digital stations.

Also, sometimes there are certian PSIP/etc. related issues which depend upon how different models of receivers handle PSIP -- Since stations can't test every function on every model of receiver, input from viewers can be very benefical to them. Also, Although we haven't ran into this in Dayton yet(and I think the work is "over" in Dayton at least for now), there can also be issues with Tower work/etc. necessary for DTV transistion+other issues. For instance, Last fall, WLWT-DT, NBC Cincinnati was off air for much of the Fall season while they completed their tower work to install "permanent" antennas for WLWT-DT and WCET-DT.

Certianly however, I think they should be properly monitoring their digital station's off-air signal at the station. It does get frustrating and tiring to continue to contact the stations every time something goes wrong so they know we "are watching", when I can, of course just switch the channel.

Concerning the Dayton stations, I think the main DTV issues currently for which it may be of benefit for as many people as possible to contact the stations and request the following issues be addressed are :

1.) No WB HD from WBDT-DT
2.) No Fox Widescreen from WRGT-DT
3.) "occasional" missing NBC HD from WKEF-DT
4.) Compression artifact problems on WHIO-DT during demanding HD source material from CBS(HD football for example).
------------------------------------

Concerning your problem with WDTN-DT reception on one of your antennas, keep in mind, It may be something other than Multipath, or a combination of issues causing the difficulty. Certianly, Multipath could be an issue(or contributing factor) for you but I suspect that many problems that you will see which are often attributed to Multipath(due to fluctuating meter readings) are actually due to other issues such as various interference and receiver selectivity/sensitivity issues. Unfortunetly, unless your receiver has better diagnostic tools for the RF signal than is the case with most all receivers nowadays, usually the only way to know for sure multipath is the "culprit" is with the use of expensive equipment(Spectrum analzyer.)

Getting your antenna outdoors would probably be the best thing to do, as basically, not only are you reducing signal by probably 15-20dbu or more(that is a lot), anything near your antenna indoors becomes part of your antenna. In case it helps, Loads of great info on antennas and reception can be found here:

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/antennadex.html

http://www.projectorexpert.com/

Jeff
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post #463 of 6617 Old 09-21-2003, 02:22 PM
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Cleveland Vs. 49er's is HD on WKRC-DT Cincy(They were a little late in flipping the Switch though -- 4:19pm - Someone probably called them).

WHIO-DT is showing the Cleveland game, but as of 4:21pm it is NOT HD. Don't know who/how to try to contact them and ask them to switch to HD.

Update : Called WHIO Newsroom and asked for HD at 4:28pm --- They wouldn't transfer me to Control room, but in the middle of my next sentence, "Could you ask them to provide ...." -- The fellow said "HD?" ..

At 4:30pm, Cleveland game is in HD from WHIO-DT ....

Jeff
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post #464 of 6617 Old 09-22-2003, 07:45 PM
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Noticed at 9:15pm that HD is missing from WDTN-DT for MNF. It's fine from WCPO-DT Cincinnati. WDTN-DT/WCPO-DT and WSYX-DT 13 Columbus were missing ABC HD last night, it may have been related to a friday morning failure of the Sat which was used by ABC for their Primary SD+HD Feed, But, the feeds were switched to another satellite, I believe on Friday.

More details available here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=304664

Since WDTN-DT switching/etc is controlled from Indy I'm not sure whom to contact to ask them to provide HD, but I sent a note to WDTN's CE last night on the Telstar 4 failure, as well as tonight as well asking him whom we should try to contact to ask for HD.

Jeff
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post #465 of 6617 Old 09-22-2003, 08:23 PM
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JEff,

I just sent you an e-mail, asking about this same thing.

Disregard that...

Rich

Rich Taylor
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post #466 of 6617 Old 09-22-2003, 10:26 PM
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Just heard from Jim Atkinson at WDTN -- Because of an issue with the Telstar 4 failure, their Computer(in Dayton, Not Indy) Didn't properly switch to the correct transponder for the HD feed tonight. He also said they'll have it straightened out by tomorrow night.

Might be a good idea for us to thank WDTN for HD when we get it back and let them know we are watching as they've really been hit hard with "murphy's law" in the past couple of weeks.

Jeff
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post #467 of 6617 Old 09-23-2003, 08:04 PM
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Hi, I'm new to the forum and to DTV. In fact I have yet to purchase a receiver or monitor, but I am thinking ahead and planning an antenna installation--thought it might help with the analog channels in the meantime as well.

What will I need to pull in Cincinnati stations from Beavercreek (zip 45430)? I'm thinking about a chimney mount--if I point a directional antenna toward Cincinnati (Southwest) will I be able to pick up the nearby Dayton stations (West) without moving the antenna, or will I need a rotor? I've got a Spaun 5x8 amplified multiswitch (SMS5802NF) in the attic and I could crank up the gain on the terrestrial input, but I don't know how much good that will do.

Thanks for the advice.
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post #468 of 6617 Old 09-23-2003, 08:18 PM
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Dirac,

I live in Xenia and have a channel master 8 bay UHF antenna permanently mounted in the attic pointed at Cincinnati and I receive all the Cincinnati stations except channel 9 (ABC) and all the Dayton stations. I receive all the Dayton stations at 100% signal strength.

John
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post #469 of 6617 Old 09-24-2003, 04:24 AM
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Dirac,

Your mileage may vary. I have two separate attic antennas, a ChannelMaster 4 bay and Radio Shack double bow tie. I can get all the Dayton stations when pointed toward them except the ChannelMaster doesn't get WDTN-DT. I get no Cincinnati stations at all. I use attic pre-amplifiers with both antennas.

As Nitewatchman points out above, you'll have a big advantage just by putting your antenna outside. Directional antennas have forward gain and attempt to reject signal from the rear and especially from the sides of the array, so I suspect you'll need a rotor. You could try pointing the array toward the Cincinnati stations and see if the Dayton signals are strong enough to overcome the loss of antenna gain.

Nitewatchman,

Thanks for the antenna info. Unfortunately, I can't put up an outside antenna in my neighborhood unless I can conceal it. If I put one outside, I would want to use a rotor to get Cincinnati and Columbus stations, so I'm stuck with the attic problems for now until I think of something clever.

Kevin
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post #470 of 6617 Old 09-24-2003, 09:57 AM
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Kevin,

HOA's, Neighborhood assocaitions, basically noone can prevent you from putting an antenna outdoors -- If you live on base at Wright-Patt, there may be some add'l concerns, however. Also, I don't believe it has to be "concealed" either --

FCC has a ruling(it's the law) on this, you can go up to 12' above your roofline. I'm not sure, but I do think HOA's etc. can have control over mounting issues where safety/etc. issues are concerned. Info avaialble in the OTARD document at FCC site(link provided in below threads), as well as all over AVSforum. Here are a couple of recent, useful threads on this issue:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=249023

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=280276

-------------------------------------------

Dirac,

Welcome to AVS!

Kevin is right on the money. Every situation is different, there are many factors involved. It's difficult to predict what you may need in your circumstance, and as you can see from Jon's report, getting good reception can often be quite easy. I probably tend to overestimate what may be needed, as I assume(perhaps incorrectly) that folks will want to receive as many stations as is reasonably possible, as well as to have the best reception possible.

Concerning Dayton/Cincy antenna aiming for your location, I checked, and Cincy towers would be 215~218 deg. heading, most at 46~48 miles from "center" of Beavercreek, and Dayton Towers are ~10 miles on a bearing of 278~283 degrees -- That's over a 60 degree difference, and you'll definitely want to use a good, Hi-gain directional antenna for Cincy(aimed right at Cincy towers), so it's probably going to be too much of a spread, and you'll probably want a rotor -- Especially, also since Columbus(77~79 deg. ENE)/Chillocothe(104 deg -ESE) stations also may be within your reach at 50~57 Miles. The Chillocothe station, WWHO-DT(~50 miles from you) has WB HD, and probably will have UPN HD too when it becomes available, none of the Dayton/Cincy stations currently offer WB HD.

Probably a good idea though to try it and see how it works via "manual rotation by hand"(if necessary) first, before getting a rotor. Also, another possibility is to use seperate antennas on seperate feedlines for the stations in different markets selecting between them with a a/b switch placed near your receiver. They even have a/b switches with remotes, BTW.

And yes, it should help your analog reception, and the better you can get the analogs in, the better shot you have at getting good reception from the Cincy/Columbus digitals.

You are "almost" fringe area for Cincinnati though, and most likely definitely fringe area for Columbus -- And keep in mind, issues such as terrain blockage can be an issue, especially if the "hills" are very nearby your location. If you don't have a terrain issue though, with the "Right" antenna setup, you should be able to get reception of Dayton/Cincinnati, and very possibly Columbus stations, too.

It's difficult to say "how much" or, what antenna you will need/will work beest as every situation can be different, but IMO, IF at all possible, in your situation, IF you want more than just the Dayton station it is Probably best to go with the "most directional" highest-gain of antennas, and mount your antenna(s) as high as you reasonably can -- Increased directivity is probably Especially important since, given your location, you might experience some co-channel interference issues with the following stations that are on the same channel(DT at the end of the callsign denotes a digital/HD station):

WBNS 10 CBS Columbus - WCPO-DT 10 ABC Cincinnati
WCMH-DT 14 NBC Columbus - WPTO 14 PBS/ThinkTV Oxford
WTTE 28 Fox Columbus - WPTO-DT 28 PBS/ThinkTV - Not yet on air, will be broadcasting from a tower in Cincy

WOSU 34 Columbus - WCET-DT 34 Cincinnati

Hopefully, your chimney will be in a "sweet spot" for good reception, as sometimes, moving the antenna a little horizontally can make as much, or more difference than up or down. If you can, It's probably a good idea to try a little experimentation with different antenna placement to see what you get before mounting it "permanently". Even on a short mast a bit off the ground may tell you a lot.

For the digitals currently, you'll need an antenna with VHF capabilities for WSYX-DT 13 ABC Columbus, and WCPO-DT 10 Cincinnati, the rest of the area digitals currently are on UHF --- Many analogs in the area are also VHF, and probably after analog shut off more digitals will be on VHF. Seperate VHF/UHF antennas usually offer the best performance, but there are good VHF/Combo antennas out there as well -- Only problem is, the best of VHF/UHF combo antennas are quite large(for TV antennas), and if you use these, you'll want to make sure you have a sturdy mount to account for wind/ice loading.

Concerning your multiswitch/amp, you could try it, but what would likely work better for Cincy/Columbus stations would be to use a completely seperate feedline for your OTA antenna, and a hi-quality, mast mount preamp such as a CM7777. Power supply for these goes inside, and DC power feeds the mast-mount preamp(put it as near the antenna as possible). You might run into some problems with Preamp overload from the Dayton stations though, and either an adjustable attenuator in-line, or even better a seperate Lo-gain antenna for Dayton on a seperate feedline might not be a bad idea if you do experience overload. However, I can tell you I'm 12 Miles from the tower, and Preamp overload isn't a problem here.

Probably best to try it without the preamp first, and see what sort of reception you get.

Finally, If you haven't already done so, you can punch your address/etc. at the following site, and it will give you a good idea of the stations you should be able to receive, as well as make recommendations on what sort of antenna you need, and if you might want to use a preamp.

http://www.antennaweb.org

IMO however, it's probably not a bad idea to go a "step or 2 up" from what antennaweb recommends for the "weakest" station you want to try to receive.

Lots of great antenna and reception info here:

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/antennadex.html

Here:

http://www.projectorexpert.com

And, info on many antennas/preamps/etc available(you can buy them from here too) here:

http://www.starkelectronic.com/allant.htm

I Know that's a lot, but hopefully some of it helps,

Good luck and let us know how it goes,

Jeff
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post #471 of 6617 Old 09-24-2003, 02:12 PM
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Dirac,

I hate to disagree with nightwatchman but he is right every location is unique but my channel master 8 bay UHF attic mounted antenna @224 deg. picks up all Cincy channels except (DT-9(ABC)) and I receive all the Dayton channels at 100% signal strength with NO problems. Static mounted in attic.

John
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post #472 of 6617 Old 09-24-2003, 03:39 PM
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First of all, thanks to everyone for their insight. Since I am just getting started I needed to do quite a bit of reading, and I see there's a lot of info to read up on!

Here's another thing, my chimney and the part of my attic with floorboards are both on the west side of the house, which is good considering that's the direction I want to point. But that's also the side of the house where the power lines come down from the pole. And the more I've been thinking, the idea of me hanging on to a metal rod a couple of feet away from lots of electric current makes me nervous! (Not to mention possible interference.) Are there any reputable installers in the area? I don't know about tackling a chimney installation that close to power.

I could always try the attic install and see how it goes before considering outdoor. I won't have a chance to do this for a couple of weeks but I just wanted to post again to say thanks for all that info and hopefully by the time I'm ready to try this I'll be a lot more knowledgable about everything.

John, got a picture of your attic install (or know of one similar)?

Is it really a good idea to set up a UHF only antenna when stations may be switching back to their analog VHF frequencies after the switch (and WCPO-DT et al are broadcasting on VHF today)?

Enough for now I suppose!

Thanks again
Dirac
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post #473 of 6617 Old 09-24-2003, 07:10 PM
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Dirac,

Yes, You definitely don't want to put the antenna near utility lines! There are the safety issues involved, but you also don't want to mount the antenna so if disaster occurs pieces of it/etc. can fall on the utility lines, this is true whether you, or an installer installs the antenna.

Also, with an outdoor install, you want to make sure your setup is properly grounded to prevent static discharge from damaging your equipment, as well as to meet NEC. It should help, but it won't necesarily allways save your antenna from a direct lightning strike, which would be very rare for lightning to "choose" your antenna instead of a nearby tree/etc. The Mast, and Outer Conductor on the Coax must be grounded, these grounds must be bonded to your A/C service ground. There are a couple of good threads on AVS concerning proper grounding.

I don't personally know of any installers in the area, but I do know in the past(you'll have to dig thorough the old cincy threads), several Cincinnati area viewers have had good luck with various installers.

Concerning VHF/UHF, personally I think It's best to use an antenna(s) which is(are) designed to perform well on both VHF/UHF, at least in this area as you noted, even presently we have DTV stations operating on VHF(WCPO-DT 10 Cincy, WSYX-DT 13 Columbus). But, it all depends upon what YOU want.

A UHF only antenna is often very convienent, as it is smaller, and the hi-gain "best of" UHF only antenna's out there such as Jon's CM4228(Since it's an 8 bay, I'm guessing that's what he is using) will perform a bit better than UHF sections on a VHF/UHF combo antenna. Also, you can allways add a seperate VHF antenna, but it will need the extra "mast room" for 2 antennas as you'll need to put them far enough apart so they won't interfere with each other.

Personally, In addition to the digital stations that are already on VHF, I also use my antennas for analog TV, and FM reception, as well as for TV/FM Dx'ing.

Using a broadband VHF/UHF combo antenna(s) which works well on VHF ch. 2-13, and UHF 14-69 is a "futureproof" one piece solution, and once it's "on the roof", given proper installation it will likely last for decades .... For instance, my current "main" TV antenna(tower mounted) and rotor is 10 years old, and still looks and works like new, the same is true for Feedline/preamp which is now 22+years old.

Again, it depends upon what you want to do, as there are many possible options(especially if you're willing to do quite a bit of experimenting), but Barring "disaster", and given proper installation, once you get what you need to achieve good reception, you won't have to mess with it again, except for using the rotor, if so desired or necessary.

FCC has ruled, and decided that Channels 2-51 will be used for DTV after analog shut-off, it's also the case that presently, the general feeling at many stations seems to be that there may not be many DTV stations which will be "choosing"(if they have a choice) to use Lo-VHF channels 2-6, because of various interference issues that are especially prevalent on those frequenies.

However, if this turns out to be the case, other stations(such as low power stations/new stations/etc.) will probably end up on Ch 2-6 in our area, but I suppose it is remotely, remotely possible that 2-6 could someday be "removed" for use by TV stations alltogether.

I personally doubt it though, and I also expect that some(or many) DTV stations will end up wanting to use 2-6 once the time comes to "make the decision" as while it is true that various interference issues are more prevalent on 2-6, it is also true that Channel 2-6 provides more coverage area for stations at lesser power, and also is "generally" easier to receive with simple antennas, and also is much more possible to receive when serious terrain issues are a reception issue than is the case on higher VHF, and especially UHF frequencies.

The reason why I'm going into all this concerning ch. 2-6 is, There is a big "gap" between ch. 6(82~88MHZ) and Ch 7(174~180MHZ), in which lies the FM Broadcast Band, 2 Meter Ham band, Frequencies used by Public service agencies/aviation/etc. And, due to the Wavelengths involved, the "biggest parts" of ch 2-13 VHF antennas, and VHF/UHF combo antennas are the section that is used for channels 2-6(and can be used for FM radio reception, too).

So, depending upon what actually happens, If all the DTV stations in the area do "stay off" 2-6 after analog shut off, one option(which would also work perfectly now for DTV reception in our area as well) would be to use a smaller, Hi-band VHF antenna for ch. 7-13 and a seperate UHF antenna. In addition to being "smaller", This sort of setup also generally can provide the best performance, as antennas generally work best if they can be designed to work on the "narrowest" range of frequenies possible. Best way to combine seperate VHF/UHF antennas onto the same feedline are either via an inexpensive VHF/UHF combiner, or a preamp with seperate VHF/UHF inputs.

Someday, who knows, perhaps they will make also combo Hi-VHF(ch 7-13)+UHF antennas, I don't know of any presently, however.

Jeff
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post #474 of 6617 Old 09-24-2003, 08:23 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Jon_E_R
Dirac,

I hate to disagree with nightwatchman but he is right every location is unique but my channel master 8 bay UHF attic mounted antenna @224 deg. picks up all Cincy channels except (DT-9(ABC)) and I receive all the Dayton channels at 100% signal strength with NO problems. Static mounted in attic.

John

Jon,

I don't see that you are disagreeing with me, I didn't say it absolutely couldn't/wouldn't work for Dirac from his location with one heading. What I said was, given the 60 degree+ difference(Which is true in your location as well) it would probably work best, and be most likely to prevent reception problems/dropouts/etc to use a rotor, or seperate antennas. If it were me, as I also think I mentioned, I'd try it first via "manual aiming" first to see what happens.

Also, although the type of antenna you are using(CM4228 UHF only 8-bay bowtie) is quite directional(a 4 bay would have a little less directivity), it's also the case that "bowtie" type antennas are probably the best to use when you have quite a "spread" of stations you are trying to receive. I think expecting to get good reception(100% of the time, no dropouts) from a station when aimed 60 degrees off target is usually going to be a little much, even for the CM 4bay or 8bay bowtie.

I do think your antenna/attic must be a pretty special spot for the Cincy TV signals(~50 miles from Xenia). Given your results with Cincy, I'd think you should be able to get the Columbus stations as well as the WB HD/UPN digital station in Chillocothe as well, perhaps with a little antenna aiming.

BTW, These are all the Cincy area Digital stations currently on the air:

WCPO-DT 10 (remap to 9-x) ABC HD
WCVN-DT 24 (remap to 54-x) KET/PBS HD(sometimes)
WXIX-DT 29 (remap to 19-1) - Fox Widescreen(currently off air)
WKRC-DT 31 (remap to 12-1) CBS HD
WSTR-DT 33 (Remap to 64-1) WB (No HD)
WCET-DT 34 (remap to 48-x) PBS HD(sometimes)
WLWT-DT 35 (remap to 5-1) NBC HD
WKOI-DT 39 - TBN - Tower near Oxford, Ohio

Jeff
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post #475 of 6617 Old 09-24-2003, 08:36 PM
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Sorry for all the posts, but thought you all might want to know that I talked to a couple of folks at WBDT-DT(WB Dayton) Today, and the Good news is, they ARE planning on doing WB HD in the future, and that they are currently working on the timetable. Also, the good news is, at least one of the WBDT guys is one of us with a HD display, DTV receiver and antenna on his roof :-)

The bad news is, they couldn't give me a definite date for HD yet. Still, It might be useful if anyone would like to drop them a short note and let them know you+your family are watching their digital station, and that you'd like to see WB HD soon --- I used the "ask us/comments" email address shown on their website : questions@daytonswb.com

Also, In case you didn't know, WB currently offers the Following programs in HD :

Everwood
Smallville
Reba
Gilmore Girls
Angel
One Tree Hill
Run Of The House
Like Family
All About the Andersons
Tarzan
What I Like About You

Jeff
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post #476 of 6617 Old 09-25-2003, 06:39 AM
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I noticed WHIO-DT had another sub last night--41-2. I bet that will help with the artifacts!

Panny Plasma Junkie: TC-P50VT20, TC-P50G15, TH-42PX60U
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post #477 of 6617 Old 09-25-2003, 09:25 AM
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Aargh! It's back, and It's still there too today :-((((

Just a SD simulcast of WHIO programming presently .... If they absolutely MUST have the SD sub, why can't they actually make it useful and put UPN on it ... I DID read recently that UPN had put together an agreement with "Top 4 affilaites" in small market stations to run UPN on DTV subchannels, which Would make sense in Dayton since we don't have a UPN OTA station ... I guess That would make too much sense though, and still, I'd take CBS HD in all it's Full, 19.39mb/s glory over anything else!

I honestly wonder also if they just didn't realize it has been gone since earlier this year, and they've still been allocating too little bandwidth to HD .. My guess, about 14mb/s ... During SEC football and the Cleveland Game last week, Noticed that Compression artifcats looked a tad worse than on WKRC-DT .... Of course, WBNS-DT(when I can see them), CBS Columbus' HD allways looks great and artifact free --- No surprise since they allocate all the available bandwidth to HD!

Jeff
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post #478 of 6617 Old 09-25-2003, 03:04 PM
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Finally! After Being on air since 5/1/02, (According to FCC info, their CP was granted on 11/2/02), and myself repeatedly asking for info from their engineering staff, I FINALLY have an indication of the facilities they may be operating with, other than the CP info(Full power CP is for 425KW ERP, same height/pattern antenna pattern as below).

The following STA was just "accepted for filing" By FCC yesterday for WRGT-DT 30 -- IF this is what they are/have been operating with, I can tell you it puts a very good signal into here from 12 miles out -- Under following STA power/antenna pattern(optimized towards Springfield), given the relative field value shown in my direction(222deg), that would be about 1KW ERP being sent in my direction, which isn't much! I'll have to check after the STA is granted, and see if anything changes with their signal here... :

WRGT-TV OH DAYTON USA (Digital)

Licensee: WRGT LICENSEE, LLC
Service Designation: DS Special Temporary Authority (STA) (digital)

Channel 30 (566-572 MHz) Special Tem
File No.: BDSTA -20030911ACD Facility ID No: 411
CDBS Application ID No.: 687931


39 ° 43' 28.00" Latitude Zone:
84 ° 15' 18.00" Longitude (NAD27) Frequency Offset: None
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 15.3 kW ERP
Ant. Height Above Average Terrain (HAAT): 351.0 meters HAAT
Ant. Radiation Center Above Mean Sea Level: 616.1 meters RCAMSL
Ant. Radiation Center Above Ground Level: meters RCAGL

Directional Antenna ID: 64344 Pattern Rotation: °
Ant. Make: Dielectric Ant. Model:
Not in a Border Zone
.
20.7 km distant from 39 35 1.00 Lat 84 24 46.00 Lon, at a
bearing of 40.73° using the distance method in 47 CFR Section 73.611.
.
Relative Field Values for the Directional Antenna:
Directional antenna relative field values do not include clockwise rotation, if shown above.

0° 0.987 90° 0.614 180° 0.362 270° 0.495
10° 1.000 100° 0.560 190° 0.379 280° 0.559
20° 0.987 110° 0.496 200° 0.362 290° 0.613
30° 0.950 120° 0.420 210° 0.317 300° 0.662
40° 0.896 130° 0.338 220° 0.263 310° 0.713
50° 0.833 140° 0.267 230° 0.236 320° 0.770
60° 0.771 150° 0.237 240° 0.267 330° 0.833
70° 0.714 160° 0.264 250° 0.338 340° 0.895
80° 0.663 170° 0.317 260° 0.420 350° 0.950

Relative Field Polar Plot includes any rotation listed above


39 ° 43' 28.00" Latitude Zone:
84 ° 15' 18.00" Longitude (NAD27) Frequency Offset: None


update: You know, the more I think about this, the more I suspect(just speculating of course) that WRGT-DT Has been operating at Fairly high power so far, and, perhaps is planning on Turning down the juice to the 15.3KW ERP STA shown above(less, and in some cases much less will be sent in directions showing less than 1.000 in the relative field values above) .... Which would certianly be fine by me(for now) if perhaps they want to cut the power bills,etc, and instead spend that money on equipment for HD or Fox Widescreen passthrough ....

Given what I've seen here with their signal so far,(When I've checked it, I can get it with ".99 cent Bowtie/Folded dipole UHF" through 4 walls with a settop antenna), I certianly find it hard to believe they're only sending 1KW ERP my way presently, whearas with Their Full Power CP, they'd be sending 30KW ERP my way(425KW to the NNE), and that would be much more "conducive" to what I've seen with their signal. Although, I'm in WHIO-DT's antennas greatest null for their current 275KW ERP STA, and they should be sending only 9KW this way, but I get them fine with outdoor antenna -- and can get them from indoors --- Barely, with "the .99 cent bowtie near a window facing NE -- but Not from the settop though.

Jeff
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post #479 of 6617 Old 09-25-2003, 03:42 PM
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Jeff,

I'm new to this thread but a long time HD fanatic. I'm curious about channel 45's digital signal. Have they ever broadcast in Fox Widescreen? Do you know when if ever they will broadcast a HD signal?

Thanks for your knowledge!
John
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post #480 of 6617 Old 09-25-2003, 06:08 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Jon
I'm curious about channel 45's digital signal. Have they ever broadcast in Fox Widescreen?

Jon,

No, they have never broadcast Fox Widescreen since first coming on the air on 5/1/02.

Also, like WHIO-DT 41 and WKEF-DT 51, their digital channel 30 does not remap on receivers via PSIP to 45-x. Some receivers which use EPG from D* for digital channel remapping may make it "look like" they remap, but they don't.

I keep asking them for Fox Widescreen though! Right after they came on the air, when I asked them about it If I recall correctly I believe they said something like "There is no reason to do it."

I of course, disagree, since I certianly have been enjoying Fox Widescreen(when they do it right!) from WXIX-DT Cincinnati.

The following programming is broadcast in Fox Widescreen(from stations that do Fox widescreen) :

2003 Nascar(1st 1/2 of season, hopefully next year too)
Selected Sunday NFL Games
2003 World Series
Some Movies
24
Bernie Mac show
Cedric the Entertainer
The O.C.
Boston Public
Oliver Beene
Malcom in the Middle
Fox News Sunday

2003 Emmy's were also in Fox widescreen, but I couldn't see them(or any other Fox Widescreen) as WXIX-DT was "messed up" and non-decodable From last friday until just earlier today ... IT seems to be fixed now, though -- At least presently(8:40pm), although between 8-8:30 the aspect ratio was wrong. WXIX-DT has had frequent, repeated problems with sending correct aspect ratio for Fox Programming, as well as other technical problems .... Which is another reason why it would be nice if WRGT-DT would do Fox widescreen, if they would do it right ....

Anyhow, Might be something else missing from that list too, as Fox doesn't actually have "list" -- Any new non-reality type show this season I'd assume will be in Fox Widescreen.

Furthermore, during all Fox programming(even 4x3 SD stuff such as Simpsons/70's show/etc.), you get a bit better PQ("basically" 480p DVD quality, but 4x3) from stations such as WXIX-DT, something you don't get from WRGT-DT.

Also, WXIX-DT Fox Cincy upconverts the Fox 480p to 1080i for broadcast with a professional upconverter, and I think(again, when they do it right) it looks, very very good, which may not be the case from all Fox affiliates that do Fox widescreen ... Not HD, anyone can see that, but it does look like a very good DVD at 480p. Live Fox Widescreen sports/etc. hasn't "generally" seem to look quite as good as the other stuff, but IMO, there have been some exceptions.

I also know that the Fox affiliate in Columbus(WTTE-DT - Quite Low powered BTW) does Fox Widescreen, and it is owned by the same company that owns WKEF/DT(NBC Dayton), and operates WRGT/DT Fox Dayton. My understanding also is that at first, WTTE-DT didn't do Fox widescreen and I don't believe they planned on doing Fox Widescreen, but after many DTV viewers asked them for Fox Widescreen they started doing it soon afterwards. So, again, if might be helpful for as many digital viewers as possible to contact WRGT and ask them for Fox Widescreen now, and for Fox HD when it becomes available from Fox.

Contact info for WKEF/WRGT is here:

http://www.nbc22.com/feedback/index.htm

You can also send questions/remarks comments to the email address concerning DTV/HD listed on the website of the company which owns/operates WKEF/WRGT :

dtv@sbginet.com

There is another recent twist to this story, too ...

Recently, the Company(Sinclair, or SBG) that operates WRGT(Fox Dayton) added a new section to their website (here: http://www.sbgi.net/business/dtv/ )concerning DTV/HD and their DTV stations(the link above), and which of the 62 stations they own and/or operate do HD/etc.

As you can see by their list, here:

http://www.sbgi.net/business/markets/dayton.shtml

They show BOTH WKEF-DT and WRGT-DT as being "HD ready". I'm not sure whether that's just incorrect info or what at this point.

As we know, WKEF-DT does provide NBC HD, and WSYX-DT Columbus(also on the list) Also provides ABC HD. I/we have also been addressing issues concerning Sinclair DTV stations+HD in the following thread, and one of the Sinclair folks(Mr. DTV) posts info there as well. Comments posted by Mr. DTV recently seem to indicate "positive things" happening DTV/HD wise at Sinclair, so hopefully, that means positive things for us where WRGT Fox Dayton, WSTR-DT WB Cincinnati(also a Sinclair station), and more consistant HD from WKEF-DT are concerned. Concerning the latter, Mr. DTV reports later in the following thread that automation equipment for switching is one of the many HD/DTV issues he/Sinclair is currently working on.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...04#post2707504

Quote:



Do you know when if ever they will broadcast a HD signal?

Unfortunetly, no. I've heard nothing about this either, although I've asked. Another good question for you, and others to ask them! If you or anyone hears anything be sure to tell us about it. Hopefully, the info on Sinclair website that shows WRGT-DT already "HD-ready" is a good sign. I do ASSUME that someday, they will offer Fox HD, and I'm thinking that someday, perhaps fairly soon, we'll be able to get some info on it. I do believe Fox's plan is to be switched to HD by Fall 2004 season --

That doesn't necessarily mean all their affiliates will be doing HD by then. however, I would also assume that WXIX-DT Cincinnati will probably be doing Fox HD as soon(or shortly thereafter) as Fox begins providing HD to its affiliates. I'm pretty sure that WXIX-DT is really pretty much already ready for HD(except for the HD receiving equipment from Fox, and Fox will likely provide that). In fact, WXIX-DT was their owner's(Raycom) "Beta Test site" for HD.

Jeff
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