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post #6661 of 6687 Old 07-13-2015, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul210 View Post
Yeah, I know, somewhat off topic...
I think it's right on topic myself

Know we've discussed it before, but not sure if we did it here or via PM ...

anyway, good to hear for you paul ...

Jeff
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post #6662 of 6687 Old 07-13-2015, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post
I suppose There could be potentially another possibility as well, I'd think, and it's a very complicated one regarding spurious signals created by a combination of signals on certian channel relationships, and also involves receiver performance, and/or possibly receiver overload/etc(particuarly if you are using a preamp which is overloading the receiver's front end with strong nearby signals) .....
I don't use a preamp. I'm too close to the main Cincinnati antenna farm downtown.

I guess that 89 foot difference in height is truly making the difference!
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post #6663 of 6687 Old 07-13-2015, 06:21 PM
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ThoraX695,

What does TV Fool predict for signal levels for WKEF(51)/WDTN for your exact receive antenna location?

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post #6664 of 6687 Old 07-14-2015, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post
ThoraX695,

What does TV Fool predict for signal levels for WKEF(51)/WDTN for your exact receive antenna location?
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8e03641f2c87d6

The noise margins for WHIO, WDTN, WPTD, and WKEF (on RF 51) respectively: -7.6, -8.7, -9.1, and -11.4 dB.

P.S. I have a 91XG antenna for UHF, so I'm cheatin' a bit.

P.P.S. Wait a minute... TV Fool isn't reporting WKEF on RF 18 on its pending applications!
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post #6665 of 6687 Old 07-15-2015, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ThoraX695 View Post
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8e03641f2c87d6

The noise margins for WHIO, WDTN, WPTD, and WKEF (on RF 51) respectively: -7.6, -8.7, -9.1, and -11.4 dB.
Don't see anything there which would indicate 1st adjacent channel interference issue (~3db difference in predicted signal levels for WDTN/WKEF) ....

Of course, with the current situation(WKEF running on 51 with much lesser facilities), it's very possible indeed 1st adjacent channel interference from WDTN could be an issue for WKEF reception(we'd know more if we knew what, exactly WKEF is doing power wise+ TX antenna location wise) ....

But, I can say I just aimed my hi-gain antenna that way (XG91/CM7778 preamp), and in order to lock/decode WKEF, I'm having to aim 30 degrees off target, likely because WDTN remains at "blow torch levels" while WKEF is obviously far from that .... Interesting I'm not seeing that with my low gain antenna(mounted at a lower height) .. the preamp might have something to do with that .....

Quote:
P.P.S. Wait a minute... TV Fool isn't reporting WKEF on RF 18 on its pending applications!
I'd speculate it's possible that may have something to do with FCC revamping their databases ... they're moving away from using CDBS, and if you notice, the WKEF 18 CP/etc. are using new "LM" prefix filenames ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, it's 8PM July 15, (0000Z July 16) WKEF is still on 51 with their reduced facilities, WRGT appears to be running low power as well) - No sign of WKEF on 18 yet even though as of 8pm this says "We've moved, rescan today" :

http://www.abc22now.com/news/feature...hannel_change/

I'm sure it's likely all the recent rains/storms have played havoc with the tower crew schedule, + safety should definitely be the priority ...

Per recent filings/letters to/from FCC, I do know they want to get it done very soon/by end of july, as the way I understand it(currently anyway), they need to get it built and up and running on 18(probably at least under program test authority/not sure if they need to file license to cover by end of july or not) in order to get protection on 18 (rather than 51) for the incentive auction/repacking process ......

Update: I'd better quit messing around, need to get the XG91 aimed back South so DVR can catch "All in The Family" from WOTH-CD ...

Update 2: just checked real quick, at 8:20pm WRGT appears to be back at normal power levels ....

Update 3: 8:23pm - Weak signal on 18 now(no lock) - not sure if it's tropo at this point, or maybe WKEF has their 18 antenna and exciter up ....It does appear to be coming from WKEF's direction ..... 8:35pm But, I'd guess tropo at this point as there are signals elsewhere peaking from that direction for example on 17 - maybe WKYC ....

Jeff

Last edited by Nitewatchman; 07-15-2015 at 05:36 PM. Reason: added some info
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post #6666 of 6687 Old 07-15-2015, 07:02 PM
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OK, Just found this :

http://www.abc22now.com/news/top-sto...y-167383.shtml

Summary :

"ABC 22 Signal Expected At Full Strength on Thursday ....Rescan Thursday Morning(for the change to 18") .....


---------------

Oh - And update per previous post - Tropo from Cleveland/WKYC locked on 17(3-x) at 10pm (Hepburn's tropo forecast hit nail on head tonight) ....As is WEWS 15(5-x) Still no lock on whatever it is on 18 .... If not WKEF (exciter only), I'd guess maybe CICO-DT-18 London, ON the way the duct from cleveland is coming in currently ... WGGN 42(52-x) sandusky just locked a minute ago as well ...

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post #6667 of 6687 Old 07-16-2015, 09:06 AM
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As of 12 PM 7/16/.2015 WKEF has made the move to 18 ...

Have to do a full rescan on some of my receivers in order to clear out the old wkef 51 info, which is kind of a pain ... not to mention some of the "channel lists" on various sotware I use which will have to be changed ...Didn't seem to be too big of a deal for analog shut off and the few stations that moved, but things have gotten more complicated here since then ....

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post #6668 of 6687 Old 07-16-2015, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post
Oh - And update per previous post - Tropo from Cleveland/WKYC locked on 17(3-x) at 10pm (Hepburn's tropo forecast hit nail on head tonight)
I did a rescan for channel 22 at about 1:05pm and picked up WTTV (Indianapolis) too.

I've never seen skip come in here so late in the day. It usually fades out at 11:00am at the latest.
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post #6669 of 6687 Old 07-16-2015, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tim58hsv View Post
I did a rescan for channel 22 at about 1:05pm and picked up WTTV (Indianapolis) too.

I've never seen skip come in here so late in the day. It usually fades out at 11:00am at the latest.
Yeah, I noticed WLJC 7 (beattyville, KY) and WDKY 31(Lexington/danville, KY still in at 12 pm .... it does happen into the afternoon occasionally/doesn't happen all that often(when it does, I've usually seen that happen in the fall), and usually as you say it is pretty much dead by 10~11am or so ....

At 10pm tonight (7/16), Seems to be building from the East/NE again(like last night), and farthest I'm currently seeing is KDKA 25 (2-x) Pittsburg, PA currently in Solid, but weak ...

This sort of setup usually occurs just after a front moves through with high pressure behind it .....
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post #6670 of 6687 Old 07-16-2015, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post
As of 12 PM 7/16/.2015 WKEF has made the move to 18 ...
I can get WKEF on RF 18 now... barely! The predictions from TV Fool now match reality much more closely when it comes to the weaker stations I should be able to occasionally receive.

Oh, now I'm tempted to build an array of 91XGs...
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post #6671 of 6687 Old 07-17-2015, 03:02 PM
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With the Tropo we've been having, I got a lock on WKEF in the Akron area (Wadsworth). And all I was using was just a crappy Mohu Leaf. I also got a lock on WCPO, WSTR, and WLTW.
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post #6672 of 6687 Old 07-21-2015, 06:58 PM
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With the Tropo we've been having, I got a lock on WKEF in the Akron area (Wadsworth). And all I was using was just a crappy Mohu Leaf. I also got a lock on WCPO, WSTR, and WLTW.
Hi Andrew,
Just wondering if your screen cap is of an Insignia or a Zenith converter box? Same box, I know, but just curious. Either way, those are great converter box's.

Also want to add here (since I don't know where else to post it) that Sinclair Broadcasting will be launching the first ever free diginet Sci-Fi channel this fall. Hoping Dayton and Cincinnati gets the channel right out of the starting gate.
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post #6673 of 6687 Old 07-22-2015, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by tim58hsv View Post
Hi Andrew,
Just wondering if your screen cap is of an Insignia or a Zenith converter box? Same box, I know, but just curious. Either way, those are great converter box's.

Also want to add here (since I don't know where else to post it) that Sinclair Broadcasting will be launching the first ever free diginet Sci-Fi channel this fall. Hoping Dayton and Cincinnati gets the channel right out of the starting gate.
The photo is from an Insignia converter box, manufacture date is February 2008. The Insignia and Zenith boxes are the same. There are subtle differences based on the manufacture date. From the information I've gathered from others, the July 2008 manufacture date has the transparent menu, and the February 2008 has the opaque menu. These are good tuners, and recommended by the Worldwide TV and FM DX Association (WTFDA).

Note that I was using the converter box inside my car. I received no signal at my home, so I relocated to a nearby hill with a clear view, and the signal was great.
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post #6674 of 6687 Old 07-26-2015, 04:57 PM
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I finally remembered to re-scan after the changes with WKEF and after doing so, I now pick up WKET (Lexington KY ??) - I've never gotten it before. I also get WSTR with much better reception than before. Previously, it was borderline reliable (signal between 60 and 70) but now indicates a "100" (for what that's worth).

Are these coincidences or are they related to this change?

Last edited by hall; 07-26-2015 at 05:25 PM.
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post #6675 of 6687 Old 07-26-2015, 07:03 PM
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I appear to have lost WPTO when I re-scanned now too....
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post #6676 of 6687 Old 07-26-2015, 07:39 PM
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I finally remembered to re-scan after the changes with WKEF and after doing so, I now pick up WKET (Lexington KY ??) - I've never gotten it before. I also get WSTR with much better reception than before. Previously, it was borderline reliable (signal between 60 and 70) but now indicates a "100" (for what that's worth).

Are these coincidences or are they related to this change?
There is no licensed TV station with the call letters WKET. What you could be seeing is a Kentucky Educational Television, which is the Bluegrass State's flavor of PBS. The closest transmitter to Dayton would be in Covington, Kentucky (WCVN on RF 24, virtual 54).

WSTR was running at lower power due to issues with transmission lines that were feeding its transmitter and/or transmitting antenna, but that was fixed a few weeks ago.

I don't see any particular pattern. Perhaps it's good UHF tropospheric ducting that's pushing the signals northward better at night?

P.S. Others in the Dayton area have seen the loss of WPTO's signal, so it's not just you.
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post #6677 of 6687 Old 07-26-2015, 08:04 PM
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It is Kentucky Educational Television - it shows up on my TV as simply "KET". I knew it was from Lexington but didn't think I could pick up anything that far away. Covington still surprises me, to be honest.

I missed any comments about WPTO being off-air. We watch WPTD fairly often but not WPTO so it wouldn't have been noticed. I only realized it was missing after that re-scan...
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post #6678 of 6687 Old 07-27-2015, 05:18 AM
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I appear to have lost WPTO when I re-scanned now too....
No problems with WPTO in downtown Dayton . Transmitter has been running with no problems at 100%.
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post #6679 of 6687 Old 07-27-2015, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoraX695
P.S. Others in the Dayton area have seen the loss of WPTO's signal, so it's not just you.
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No problems with WPTO in downtown Dayton . Transmitter has been running with no problems at 100%.
Strange ... WPTO is missing from both my Dish receiver's OTA channels as well as my TV's built-in tuner's OTA channels.
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post #6680 of 6687 Old 07-27-2015, 12:09 PM
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Still the same here too and Windows Media Center shows no signal at all from WPTO.
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post #6681 of 6687 Old 07-27-2015, 04:47 PM
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It is Kentucky Educational Television - it shows up on my TV as simply "KET". I knew it was from Lexington but didn't think I could pick up anything that far away. Covington still surprises me, to be honest.
Here's the list of transmitters with their virtual channel number for the KET network. It's most likely Covington, but perhaps there was some extra tropospheric ducting going on.
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post #6682 of 6687 Old 07-27-2015, 07:02 PM
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Hmmm, with our bedroom TV, using a small, indoor antenna, I get WPTO (14)...
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post #6683 of 6687 Old 07-28-2015, 04:37 PM
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Hmmm, with our bedroom TV, using a small, indoor antenna, I get WPTO (14)...
I called ThinkTV yesterday and the nice lady on the other end said she wasn't aware of any problems with WPTO. With that, I went out back and turned the antenna just a tad and 14 came right back in.
Just seems odd that we both had problems with WPTO at about the same time
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post #6684 of 6687 Old 07-28-2015, 04:48 PM
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I haven't checked my other TV yet. Will do that later today if I remember.
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post #6685 of 6687 Old 07-28-2015, 05:58 PM
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Re-scan didn't get it back. I'm fairly certain my antenna hasn't moved... I'm not too worried.

I did lose that KET station. I just so happened to do the scan that picked it up before a storm came through. Does that help TV signals travel ? I've heard that "tropo" term used related to picking up stations that otherwise can't be received.
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post #6686 of 6687 Old 07-29-2015, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
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I did lose that KET station. I just so happened to do the scan that picked it up before a storm came through. Does that help TV signals travel ? I've heard that "tropo" term used related to picking up stations that otherwise can't be received.
Tropospheric ducting (the term abbreviated as "tropo") is a temperature inversion in the atmosphere that reflects VHF and UHF signals and makes them travel hundreds or sometimes thousands of miles further than they usually would. This phenomenon is common during the summer months.

This site forecasts when tropo will occur.
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post #6687 of 6687 Unread Today, 07:09 PM
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The "WKET" is a pretty common guide related error, as thoraX695 noted, there is no such KET Callsign ...

I'm 4 miles south of Germantown, and allways receive WCVN (as a Local) here, from 39 Miles North of their tower(which is actually near Taylor Mill, KY) ... I'm right near the edge of their predicted 41dBu contour, although with significant terrian blockage involved I have to have a decent antenna setup to get it, but I'm sure they can be received fine in some areas of South Dayton /Miamisburg/etc. (as long as you're on a hill) ....

It takes tropo for me for the other KET transmitters though ....

Jeff

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