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post #661 of 6617 Old 02-01-2004, 07:34 AM
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I don't recall any of those being in HD on WKEF. I'm pretty sure I saw ER, ED, TMS, and L&O in standard def. Not sure about th eother two.

WKEF seems to be VERY sloppy with HD.
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post #662 of 6617 Old 02-01-2004, 08:55 PM
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Well, it was the usual poor PQ (macroblocking due to low bandwidth) from WHIO-DT for the Super Bowl tonight.

Some of the comments in the Super Bowl threads from others who were getting the game via Time Warner (instead of off-air pickup of Ch. 41 like I do) seemed to indicate they weren't getting the macroblocking.

Was the Time Warner feed for Western Ohio a direct pickup from CBS, or from WHIO, and if so, are they are getting some sort of feed not affected by the bandwidth bottleneck that is found in the Ch. 41 OTA signal?
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post #663 of 6617 Old 02-02-2004, 05:28 AM
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It would have been nice if someone at WHIO could have responded to our emails. I get the impression they don't really care. I would like to know what their logic is on 41-2 and if they really feel it's a necessity.

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post #664 of 6617 Old 02-02-2004, 06:49 AM
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This was WHIO's chance to impress us with CBS's HDTV... and they failed miserably. Even my wife, who is decidedly NOT a videophile, commented that she was not impressed at the picture. I'm sure the horrendous shots from the SD cameras, as well as the low bandwith, were to blame.

Way to go, WHIO. I bet a fair number of TWC HD subscribers now care less about carriage of your HD signal than before the Superbowl.

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post #665 of 6617 Old 02-02-2004, 08:48 AM
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Yep. There was a slight bit of enhanced "tropo scatter" in air to the E/NE from my location last night, Much of the time I had Solid reception of WSYX-DT 13 Columbus, but WBNS-DT was so close to a lock(PSIP lock/Channel remapping did occur) much of the time it wasn't funny ... I Also had the first indication of signal I've seen here from what was likely WOSU-DT 38 getting through WOTH-LP Cincy -- About 25% of the way to a lock ...

Anyhow, I was hoping conditions would have improved enough by gametime that I could scrub the limited-bandwidth HD locals and watch on WBNS-DT, but alas, it just didn't quite happen.

For the most part compression artifact wise, I thought it DID look quite a bit better on WKRC-DT(moreso than usual even) than was the case on WHIO-DT, though.

I guess all we can do is keep trying. Maybe when 5,000 viewers or more tell them how disappointed they were with the artifacts during superbowl/etc, or when someone "higher up" on staff, or at Cox gets a HDTV and notices the problem+realizes it could look much better than that, they'll figure it out and do something about it ... At least, I hope so.

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post #666 of 6617 Old 02-02-2004, 09:36 AM
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I watched WHIO HD on TWC, and i was very impressed with the quality. Some artifacting, but not enough to make me not care about CBS HD carriage on TW...

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post #667 of 6617 Old 02-02-2004, 01:04 PM
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I watched the Super Bowl on WHIO through TWC and was disapointed with the PQ. It was nowhere near the quality that I see on Discovery HD Theater, for example (or even NBC).

Some shots looked better than others. It seems like some of the video from the cameras on the field were no better than SD. Very, Very poor. Some of the overhead shots were probably of the best quality. But again, even those weren't what I was expecting.

It was great to see the game in widescreen, and also with a somewhat higher PQ than regular cable, but it should have been MUCH, MUCH better.
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post #668 of 6617 Old 02-02-2004, 04:12 PM
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Don't mean to change the subject but ...

I've noticed the last 3 days(including tonight starting at 6) WPTD-DT has been running all 4 SD services in addition to The PBS HD channel between 6pm-6am ...

I'm hoping it's just a temporary problem at the station with scheduling/switching the programming services/bandwidth around/etc .... Although, I do notice the program schedule on their website shows programming on ALL the subchannels, when usually it takes account for #2+4 being down when in HD mode ...

Obviously, compression artifacts are even more of a problem now than they ever have been before, so much so that as I'm checking 16-5 presently during Tracks ahead, and it's hard to tell whether or not they are sending 480p or HD ...

Quote:


Originally posted by 1450kHz
Some of the comments in the Super Bowl threads from others who were getting the game via Time Warner (instead of off-air pickup of Ch. 41 like I do) seemed to indicate they weren't getting the macroblocking.

Of course, keep in mind, there is a whole slew of issues involved concerning how much of an issue this is with any given person and the display/display settings/decoding/encoding issues involved. As one example, although it's difficult for me to imagine, someone who is used to MPEG II artifacts, from say DBS or digital SD cable+hasn't seen 1080i HD video from CBS via MPEG II at 18mb/s might not realize it can and should look a lot better than what WHIO-DT is putting out. It's just a guess, but I'm guessing they are giving CBS HD something like 14~15Mb/s or so. Not enough for 1080i, when demanding source material(fast action, lots of detail/etc) is involved.


Quote:


Originally posted by 1450kHz
Was the Time Warner feed for Western Ohio a direct pickup from CBS, or from WHIO, and if so, are they are getting some sort of feed not affected by the bandwidth bottleneck that is found in the Ch. 41 OTA signal?

Well, hopefully we'll get more PQ reports from Dayton/Western Ohio TW Subscribers, but so far, it seems like the TW folks are saying they were getting WHIO-DT --- I can only guess, since we probably won't find out from WHIO-DT or TW. It's probably a safe bet though that if local ad inserts/programming/promos/etc. were present at any time, then the CBS HD was from WHIO-DT facilities. Also, WHIO-DT has a "WHIO-DT 41 - Dayton/Springfield" ID bug that I've seen on 41-1 occasionally(not very often though, but I don't watch them very often) If viewers saw that during CBS HD there would be no doubt whatsoever ...

IF the CBS HD feed was coming from WHIO-DT, although I suppose it's possible, I highly doubt that TW viewers were getting any more bandwidth/bitrate for HD than what OTA viewers get - It SHOULD BE the same.

PRobably a lot more to it than the below, but the way I understand it is, CBS sends the HD feed to it's affiliates at much higher bitrate+using basically, a "propriatary" system. If WHIO-DT was sending the cableco something different, some seperate equipment(such as HD encoder - expensive) for OTA transmission and Cable, respectively would need to be used. I also believe There would also have to be a way to send the datastream/different programming sources(local/syndicated/Network SD/Network HD/etc) to the sepereate encoders which would be needed, which I believe is more complex than it might sound.

My understanding is, Usually what happens is, the affilate will send the close in Cableco(s) their DTV feed via Fiber(which comes just AFTER the encoder+before the necessary equipment for RF transmission), and Cable headends in outlying communties would receive the signal OTA just like we do -- I still wouldn't be surprised if the SD subchannel is used for this for "SD cable" instead of the analog, as especially when cableco headends are using OTA for the signal, improved quality would likely often result for SD cable viewers. I don't know how TW's "distribution" system works however, it might be a bit different than that with them.

Anyhow, Then, At the cableco, basically all/any of the necessary PSIP/ECC/etc(anything needed for OTA 8VSB transmission but not needed for cable transmission info is "stripped", then the signal is remodulated to QAM and sent over their system to their customers. With OTA DTV/HD, 19.34Mb/s is available for "use", and I don't recall the exact numbers, but it's something like approx. 18~19Mb/s or so is used for ECC/etc. for the harsher "envoirnment of OTA ATSC transmission/reception -- That is not needed for cable and would just be wasted bandwdith. There is actually, also a "High data rate mode" for ATSC that also works with cable -- It's called 16VSB, and supports 38mb/s - 8VSB can also be sent over cable "as is", but with a couple of exceptions, cablecos are currently using QAM modulation for HD. Now, while it's possible the cableco could process the MPEGII video further, They can't really change what's already been lost during encoding at the station ...


Quote:


Originally posted by browerjs
Some artifacting, but not enough to make me not care about CBS HD carriage on TW...

Of course you would still want CBS HD ... That's not the issue here. It's quite a "complicated" issue actually that I'll barely touch on with the below(sorry for the length) ...

For much of the time(say during MOST CBS HD programming), compression artifacts aren't going to be all an issue if say, you're getting 15mb/s for CBS HD. However --- Some programming - specifically, only short periods when there is a lot of fast action detail is especially bandwidth demanding with 1080iHD, it requires(IMO anyway) the entire bandwidth possible -- as noted above --- 19.34Mb/s ... Although there has been talk of improved encoders that can do the same job with less ... I certianly haven't seen it yet .. Although I certianly hope it's true someday -- Seeing is believing. And I don't think it's really possible to squeeze much more out of MPEGII(which is what we are using as a standard -- our Receiver's/cable HD STB's won't work with anything else). In fact, ATSC(the organization that developed+Tested(thoroughly) the "standard" we are using for DTV/HD made some recommendations concerning HD/DTV bandwidth usage for HD. Where HD is concerned, this recommendation said a station could achieve good results PQ wise by sending ONE 1080i HD service or one 720p+ ONE 480i SD service.

Now, it's also true that 1080i HD doesn't need the entire 19.34Mb/s(actually it's something like a little over 18Mb/s available after Audio/PSIP data) MOST of the time -- and, when not needed, the "extra" bandwidth(often reffered to as "oppurtunistic bandwidth) can be allocated for other uses(such as datacasting or a weather radar subchannel that wouldn't allways need "real time" updating/etc). However, of course, IMO, since there ARE times when 1080i HD will Need the full 18mb/s(otherwise, very noticable compression artifacts will result) -- Anything else(besides audio/PSIP/CC data/etc) using "oppurtunistic bandwidth" should drop to "0" bandwidth usage during those times.

Uncompressed, keep in mind, HD is a bit over 1 Gigabit per second -- HD is being compressed using a lossy compression scheme for ATSC DTV usage with ratios at about 50:1, and just changing that a bit to say 51:1 or 52:1(or whatever) makes a BIG difference - Just as with JPG, there's a certian "point" where too much comression makes compression artifacts become very noticable and problematic -- That point varies depending upon the amount of detail/objects/etc, pretty much on a per frame basis ... From what I've seen(and evidently ATSC has seen as well), that point, given the most demanding of source material, for 1080i this point is just AT the amount of bandwidth Stations can send out. Which of course, makes sense, since they optimized the transmission system to both provide the most robustness of coverage service area(where FEC/ECC comes into play) while, at the same time supporting 1080i HD ...

Of course, equipment the station is using+how encoders are set up/etc. is also a big issue involved here. One method that can be used to allocate bandwidth on the fly is called "statistical multiplexing",(the DBS services use this for SD/HD extensively) ... So, on a per frame basis, bandwidth that isn't used by say, a cartoon on one subchannel can be used by another subchannel(such as the HD service. However, Given a "real time" programming service, I don't think this would work all that well for 1080i HD+1 subchannel(not 100% of the time, although it would likely be quite a improvement MUCH of the time), as the HD is occasionally going to need "everything", when the SD subchannel is also going to need at LEAST 2mb/s or so ...

Certianly however, as long as they don't try to squeeze even MORE subchannels in, in the future, as stations pay more attention to these things, they'll probably be able to tweak things a bit and produce better quality/less compression artifacts even given 1080i+1SD subchannnel .... UNTIL that happens though, IMO, although I'd rather see 1080i from, say CBS/WHIO-DT at 18mb/s(for HD video) -- I think, IF stations just absolutely HAVE to "squeeze the bandwidth" more than it should be, they NEED to be sending the ATSC format that best suits the bandwidth usage. For those that get OTA in this area, most would probably agree for example, that with ABC HD at 720p(probably needs about 15-16mb/s or so) from WDTN-DT -- There's enough room for ONE SD subchannel(which is what they are doing) without degrading HD PQ during demanding source material ... In fact, it still looks very good.

Also, of course, probably the biggest issue involved : While it's certianly understandable that stations want to make the MOST out of DTV(especially understandably so if there is a income generating aspect) -- I don't personally think there is room for "compromise" where Compression artifacts+HD quality are concerned .. And I personally think, since it is quite evident that stations, in some circumstances are not going to allocate enough bandwidth to HD(at least presently and for the forseeable future) -- Then I think Minimum bitrate standards for HD(SD/ED too for that matter), based on ATSC recommendations need to be implemented -- Whether it be implemented by the Networks involved -- Or the Gov't ... Probably won't happen, but I think it NEEDS to happen.

Another issue of course being that more and more, fewer and fewer people(at least in our area) have likely even SEEN what something like the Superbowl Should Look like at 1080i ... For instance, WLWT-DT Cincinnati is currently the ONLY Local station in Dayton/Cincinnati which is doing 1080i HD that gives it the bandwidth it needs ... PBS Wise, the only time we've seen "compression artifact free" 1080i HD in all it's glory was when WCET-DT cincinnati was giving HD everything .. Only during the first couple of months they were on air, and that was when they were running low power 7KW ERP with a 250 Watt solid state transmitter, which probably made it difficult to receive in most of the Dayton area ... And of course, from WLWT-DT we don't get a lot of NBC Programming that demonstrates this to it's "full effect" (2002 Winter Olympics, 2002/2003 Triple Crown is about it in the "most demanding of HD source programming ever shown on NBC catagory" ......

I think it's a very important issue(especially given what many of the local stations are doing), as it seems that in many cases, the stations just do not realize how BAD it looks when they aren't allocating enough bandwidth during HD and say, you can't even recognize Stephen Tyler when he is moving around too much/camera is panning around too much/etc because of the compression artifacts ..... I'm guessing They probably won't figure it out until the GM's(or big clients) +such get HD displays in their home, and actually watch their station -- and then only if they get to see what it "should look like" from some other source ......And then it might be too late in some circumstances as they might be tied into running seperate programming services, or Pay OTA subscription services, or datacasting which uses just more than oppurtunistic bandwidth, or provider to the cableco of services such as "PBS Kids"/etc/etc/etc.

Probably much more than you wanted to hear and hopefully it's clearer than mud ... but again, I think it's a very, very big and important issue ... And I think that it would be better if broadcasters figured it out now, instead of finding out the hard way .... I'd love to be wrong though .. It would certianly be great if HD would look as good with less bandwidth+more quality SD services could be added ....It won't be so great if all I'm left with is a overly compressed HD subchannel, or a 480i SD subchannel full of compression artifacts(with infomericals and such mostly), and my HD display+equipment will become useless unless I am forced to pay some riduculously high monthly fee (which I won't do), probably mostly for programming with a bunch of commericals in it ....

Now for some GOOD news:

"Gladiator" is scheduled for ABC HD tonight ... It's aired in ABC HD twice before, and I do recall that it was an EXCELLENT transfer/HD PQ, I don't quite recall if it aired in OAR previously but I *think* it did, at least the first time ... Of course there are some cuts, probably more than the first time it aired in HD over 2 Nights -- approx. 5 hrs total -- lots of commericals -- Its aired before in the same time slot as tonight, but I didn't catch that one ... Should be well worthwhile to check out on WDTN-DT for the HD PQ/DD 5.1 though, if OAR ...

Jeff
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post #669 of 6617 Old 02-02-2004, 06:59 PM
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TWC is still sending through WHIO-HD (i assume it is from WHIO considering it says so in the guide and we are getting the local news in SD on the channel)... I watched 3 shows in HD tonight (Yes Dear, Still Standing, and Raymond) and they were much better PQ then the superbowl. Basically the only problem i noticed during the game were when the switched from one HD camera to another. There would be a blocky picture at first, and then sort of "focus" in and look fine... During full action plays with the same camera, i had no problems with the PQ... and the shots from the top of the stadium down were stunning...

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post #670 of 6617 Old 02-03-2004, 03:59 PM
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Hello to all in the thread again....I poked my head in last summer when I finally purchased our 50XBR800 and decided on one of the coldest days of the year to buy a HD300. Nothing like throwing a ladder up on the side of the house in signal digit weather to install a new dish...

Anyways, I managed to throw a pair of rabbit ears on the TV and was actually able to bring in all of the Dayton locals. I live in the 48 & 70 area North of town and was surprised that I was able to get that type of reception. When it warms up, I plan on actually installing an antennae, but for now, it is quite nice.

As far as the Superbowl, my wife and I were amazed at the picture, but did notice the blocking that took place between shots and during some fast movements. And yes, the SD cameras stuck out like a sore thumb. But overall, it was a great experience.

Thanks to 1450 to pointing out that WHIO doesn't pass 5.1. I sent them an e-mail anyways...

On a side note, does anyone else notice a shimmering effect that sometimes takes place on dark scenes or images on HDNet or Discover HT? Just curious if it was just me or a setting that I may have out of wack.

Thanks for all of the insight...I'm off to increase my TV viewing....

Mike
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post #671 of 6617 Old 02-03-2004, 04:24 PM
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MNLang ... Stop in any time+thanks for sending WHIO a note. If nothing else, the more people they know are watching, the better ...

BTW, WDTN-DT is the only Commerical broadcaster in Cincy/Dayton which has DD 5.1 capability, currently. WPTD-DT has passed DD 5.1 on rare occasions(HD soundstage), WCET-DT(PBS) Cincinnati+WCVN-DT(KET/PBS) does DD 5.1 "when available" as well.

I'm wondering though ...A silly question -- What led you to believe you wouldn't be able to get good OTA reception so easily?

I certianly wish we could "guarentee" such easy reception when someone asks "what sort of antenna do I need", and will I get good reception/etc/etc ... But we can't because there are just so, so many variables involved -- Which leads us to be necessarily cautious about our replies on reception questions, especially those that come BEFORE a receiver/Antenna system is purchased ..

But --- as you can see, the truth is It can often work very, very well and quite easily with simple, indoor antennas if your not in a weak signal area or "signal hole" .. Which is good, since certianly Now is NOT the time to be working on outdoor antennas!

Oftentimes though, with indoor antennas especially it is often very important to find a "sweet spot" to put the antenna in, or it might be necessary to adjust it a bit to get best results from different stations ... One big thing that helps us in Dayton is, that except for WWRD-LP 55 Analog, all the Stations are broadcasting from the same "Antenna farm" ....

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post #672 of 6617 Old 02-03-2004, 04:32 PM
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"And yes, the SD cameras stuck out like a sore thumb."

Were they using SD cameras for some of the handheld shots from the field? I noticed some of those shots looking especially bad. If they were SD cameras, why was it still in 16x9 instead of 4x3? Sorry if a stupid question.
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post #673 of 6617 Old 02-03-2004, 04:45 PM
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Jeff -

Quote:


What led you to believe you wouldn't be able to get good OTA reception so easily?

No reason except for my extreme skepticism...

Heck, I even didn't have to work at aiming my dish over the weekend. I literally set the alignments, aimed it roughly from memory over the horizon and managed to nail it on the first dry. On my original 18 inch dish, I remember having a hell of time aligning it.

Vader -

Quote:


Were they using SD cameras for some of the handheld shots from the field? I noticed some of those shots looking especially bad. If they were SD cameras, why was it still in 16x9 instead of 4x3? Sorry if a stupid question.

I honestly don't have a clue...I imagine that they still framed everything in 16x9 because even the HD 16x9 was cropped to 4x3 for the standard signal.

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post #674 of 6617 Old 02-03-2004, 04:47 PM
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No such thing as a stupid question here ...

Yes, they were using SD cameras for the handheld shots -- So far the norm for any Live sports in HD when handheld "roving cameras" are used/needed ... as Until very,very recently, there was no such thing as a wireless HD camera(The ONE CBS had for the superbowl this year is the only one I know of - Bob Ross of CBS posted about it on one of the pre-superbowl threads in programming area ... Lots of other great info like that can be found "scattered" about on AVSforum) ......

SD can be 16x9, too. some examples:

Many SD cams have a 16x9 setting. 16x9 "anamoprhic" DVD's are SD, Fox Widescreen(or "ED") is distributed to it's affiliates as 480i 16x9 NTSC video(another way of saying "anamoprhic" SD), which is usually deinterlaced at the station and sent out using the 480p 16x9 ATSC format. WXIX-DT Cincinnati, and some other Fox stations do something a little different, as they upconvert the Widescreen Fox programming to 1080i for broadcast. Some Fox stations upconvert to 720p for broadcast. Of course, WRGT-DT Fox Dayton doesn't even send us Fox widescreen ...

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post #675 of 6617 Old 02-03-2004, 06:21 PM
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About WKEF NBC, I'm still not seeing any HD on it. Tonight's Frasier is in SD. It's been over a week since I've noticed any HD on WKEF. Is someone asleep at the switch or what?!
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post #676 of 6617 Old 02-03-2004, 07:01 PM
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Since it has been so long with no NBC HD, I'm wondering if maybe they are having some sort of problem/issue other than just flipping the switch. Hopefully, we can find out. I just sent a note concerning the missing HD as of late to the "Technical Questions" email address on their website, I've had good results using this method in the past :

engineering@wrgt45.com

You can also call them, contact info for them here:

http://www.nbc22.com/feedback/index.htm

Calling the newsroom+asking to be transferred to engineering/control room(or ask them to pass the message along to (ask nicely) - "please send us NBC HD" is usually the most benifical thing for "on demand" service ... Of course, if something else is wrong that they're probably working on, "flipping the switch" ain't going to fix the problem ...

I'll post if I find out anything, I'll post .... if anyone else finds out anything, please post ...

-----------------------

On another issue, I came across a excellent article (here: http://www.tvtechnology.com/dlrf/one.php?id=313 ) concerning Cable Carriage of DTV/HD signals from local broadcasters .... It also contains some excellent comments/info on bandwidth allocation .... IF I had seen this yesterday, I wouldn't have needed to post such a loonng post on the issue farther above .... for example, here's a quote from the article:

"Most broadcasters will want to use the majority of their 19.3 Mbps data bandwidth for critical HDTV programming such as the Super Bowl or Olympics. The TV engineers reading this report already know this, but for some reason many non-technical reports on the debate miss this point."
:end quote

I wish there was a way to get the information contained in above quote to whomever is necessary at WHIO-DT in a manner which would do some good(If there is anyone like that) -- and for that matter, all the local stations in the area which are "squeezing HD bandwidth" too much ... I do think though that for the most part, 720p such as WDTN-DT is doing is fine alongside 1 SD subchannel -- probably around 15-16mp/s or so, although certianly even in 720p's case, I certianly wouldn't mind 19mb/s ....

Jeff
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post #677 of 6617 Old 02-03-2004, 07:04 PM
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I did send an email to engineering@wrgt45.com Monday but got no response. So earlier tonight I sent another one to programming@wrgt45.com.

Hopefully one of us will get an answer.
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post #678 of 6617 Old 02-03-2004, 07:20 PM
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Here's another one I've used before too which has worked -- This one is for DTV "issues" at any sinclair owned/operated station(sinclair owns WKEF-DT+operates WRGT-DT under a Local marketing agreement) :

dtv@sbgi.net

BTW, I've noticed that they have both WKEF-DT+ WRGT-DT listed on their site as "HD-ready" at the following page .... As we know, WRGT-DT doesn't give us Fox widescreen, but With any luck, perhaps they'll have FOX HD next fall:

http://www.sbgi.net/business/markets/dayton.shtml

------------------------------------

Jeff
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post #679 of 6617 Old 02-03-2004, 07:41 PM
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I actually called WKEF and asked to be transferred to engineering earlier tonight when i noticed Whoopie wasn't being broadcast in HD (eventhough i had no intention in watching it or any of the other sitcoms on tonight)... All i got was the guy's voicemail...

On another note, are all the TWC customers still getting channel 707 WHIO-HD? I know I am... they told me it would be turned off on 2/3/04 so we'll see if it's still there tomorrow...

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post #680 of 6617 Old 02-03-2004, 07:44 PM
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NBC/WKEF-DT HD Update: Oops! Looks like it might me a national issue for tonight as noone is reporting getting NBC HD tonight -- I just checked WLWT-DT+sure enough L&O SVU is SD(they pretty much NEVER mess up) :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=361739

Browerjs:

I haven't called them in quite a while, but Did you call the Newsroom number? That's the only place you'll be able to get hold of anyone directly after busniess hours ... If you ask the receptionist/etc. to ask the control room to pass HD -- Hopefully the message will get passed on (It's worked before anyway) ... Of course, it wouldn't help too much tonight, since NBC doesn't appear to be sending HD anyhow .... See how fun this can be ;-)

I know, it's a PITA, but it's a PITA for them too ... Sooner or later they will figure out there are people out here who are watching and CARE about watching HD ... Only way to let them know we're out here watching(presently anyway) is to contact them ...

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WPTD-DT Update: Oh yes --- WPTD-DT is back to "normal" -- HD+2 SD subs now ... On the positive side ... PBS sure looks a lot better now than last few nights with HD+4 SD subs! Thanks thinkTV folks for fixing the problem !

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WKEF-DT update : At 11:45pm, Tonight show HD on WLWT-DT --- SD on WKEF-DT .... (noticed same thing last night as well ...)

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post #681 of 6617 Old 02-04-2004, 08:33 PM
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Yeek. I hope WKEF gets their act together before Daytona, as right now I can't get WLWT as a backup.

Oh, and fie on WHIO-DT for stinking up the Super Bowl with your multicast. Channel 7, you stink.

Time to look for a place on top of a hill with a clear shot to Columbus.....
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post #682 of 6617 Old 02-05-2004, 05:47 AM
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I checked WKEF again last night during West Wing, and again it was not in HD... I called the news room, asked for engineering... they asked me who was calling and i told them that the HD needed to be switched on... She responded with "Those people aren't here right now", so i told her if she could find someone who could look into the problem that I'd appreciate it... During West Wing it never switched over... Did anyone notice if it switched later in the evening?

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post #683 of 6617 Old 02-05-2004, 08:20 AM
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Thanks for trying ... There's not much more you can do than that, although you might want to contact TW too .. I'll send a note to Sinclair concerning the "problem", and see if that does any good ...

No HD for Leno on WKEF-DT last night, HD from WLWT-DT Cincinnati ...

Funny thing, on their 2nd day of operation (2/9/02) I noticed that WLWT-DT had Winter Olympics in HD, SD on WKEF-DT(WKEF-DT did have HD for the opening ceremonies the night before, however) ... So I called them, and also received the same response --- "Those people aren't there" .... Nevertheless, in this case, however --- a few minutes later HD appeared on WKEF-DT ...

While it is true that some stations are quite automated, there still would be a tech on duty ....Furthermore, unless something has changed recently(that's not working), WKEF-DT doesn't have automated switching to/from the NBC HD feed .... Someone manually has to "flip a switch" ...

Update: Oh --- also sent WKEF-DT's CE a note concerning the WKEF-DT HD issue ... on previous occasions, either he, or another enginner has been good about replying, so hopefully that will be the case this time as well ... I also sent him a signal report for WRCX-LP 40, as I noticed he is shown on their "license to Cover"app as the consulting engineer, the app just popped up at FCC site today(I'm not sure, but acrobat reader may be required to see this) -- Which is good, because I've been trying to find a way to contact WRCX +let them know that I appreciate their signal being on the air again :

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...&fac_num=69535

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post #684 of 6617 Old 02-05-2004, 12:37 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by browerjs
I checked WKEF again last night during West Wing, and again it was not in HD... I called the news room, asked for engineering... they asked me who was calling and i told them that the HD needed to be switched on... She responded with "Those people aren't here right now", so i told her if she could find someone who could look into the problem that I'd appreciate it... During West Wing it never switched over... Did anyone notice if it switched later in the evening?

NBC network did not send the West Wing down in HD last night. The only thing that was on the HD signal was NBC News. I do not know who you talk to in the Newsroom but we have a Engineer here until 11:30 each night. I will make sure the the Newsroom knows that when a viewer calls in to make sure Master Control is told. As for Jay Leno last night our Master Control operator did not switch it to HD. We are currently switching our HD signal manually, we are working on not only automating the NBC 22 HD but get the FOX 45 HD up and running. We have just received new equipment to make this happen. I will stay on top of our M/C operators to make sure all HD shows are in HD.

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post #685 of 6617 Old 02-05-2004, 12:43 PM
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Roland,

WOW! you don't know what great news it is to hear WRGT-DT is going to do Fox HD!

Thanks for the info and great to see you here! I'm sure everyone is very pleased that you are particpating on AVS. Feel free to join us at any time!

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post #686 of 6617 Old 02-05-2004, 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Roland,

WOW! you don't know what great news it is to hear WRGT-DT is going to do Fox HD!

Thanks for the info and great to see you here! I'm sure everyone is very pleased that you are particpating on AVS. Feel free to join us at any time!

I second that!
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post #687 of 6617 Old 02-05-2004, 01:50 PM
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Welcome to AVS. Thanks for the great news.
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post #688 of 6617 Old 02-05-2004, 02:41 PM
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Roland..
Welcome and thanks for posting. Helps us all. Maybe I could trouble you with a nagging question: Why do you run a subchannel that duplicates the main channel in 480i? (51-2). Noticed all of the Dayton DTs do that, but none of the Cincinnati DTs do.

Ok, two questions: do you ever plan to remap to 22-1?

Thanks
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post #689 of 6617 Old 02-05-2004, 03:02 PM
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So when the new HD equipment is installed for WRGT, will FOX Widescreen EDTV began to be broadcast? Or is this totally different equipment?

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post #690 of 6617 Old 02-05-2004, 04:03 PM
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For those that haven't read it, there's some excellent info on the System/Equipment Fox will be using to send HD to its affiliates at the following thread - A recent post of info from a recent article on the 3rd page of thread is especially interesting :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8&pagenumber=1

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Roland,

Also, if there is anything we can ever help You with, just let us know!

--------------------------

Update 10:30pm -- I could see where Master Control ops at WKEF-DT could be frustrated at times with NBC HD too! (I do hope NBC sends them a memo though) ...

Anyhow -- No HD for ER from WLWT-DT or WKEF-DT as of 10:35 EST ... Obviously a national issue (maybe to prevent another "nipplegate") according to this thread in Programming area:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...42#post3332242

As I noted there in my post there though, seems like NBC could have at least dropped the "available in HD" banner at beginning ...

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