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post #781 of 6613 Old 02-15-2004, 04:31 PM
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Doc,

Just guessing via my ability to do so on this end ... I think it would perfectly explain exactly what I was seeing, But as you say, could be another bug, and could be one that's very difficult for them to track down+iron out ...

Anyhow, That's the first time I've ever seen the problem occur from WLWT-DT too, but for a much shorter period of time ...

Just had a couple more non-reception dropouts at 19:19~19:22 on 51-1. 51-2 and the signal was fine here throughout the dropouts, as allways ...

Jeff
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post #782 of 6613 Old 02-15-2004, 05:36 PM
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The dropouts on WKEF seem to happen once every 15 minutes or so. Sometimes less. The screen goes black then comes back after a second. WKEF is the ONLY HD station I've had the problem with.

I noticed it when watching some of Shrek tonight too. It's really annoying. Especially when someone is here and I'm trying to show them how nice HD is.

It has happened ever since I started receiving HD a few months ago. FWIW, I get HD through TWC (Sidney area).
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post #783 of 6613 Old 02-16-2004, 02:46 AM
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Jeff might be onto something. My newsguy was listening to the race off of XM radio (MRN coverage) and reports a lot of dropouts around the same time we were seeing dropouts.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #784 of 6613 Old 02-16-2004, 10:55 AM
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Newbie OTA questions,

I am in Fairfield Twp, about in the middle of Cincinnati and dayton. I had some satellite people out yesterday to upgrade my Directv to HD. They mounted an antenna in my attic. I can get all my analog stations, but not the digital. Does it take a clearer signal to get the hd ota signals?

I am not sure if my attic antenna is directional or not. I don't even know how to tell. Is there an advantage to a directional antenna?

Do I need to move the antenna to the roof? or what else can I do to get all of the HD channels?

Thanks

Don
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post #785 of 6613 Old 02-16-2004, 01:08 PM
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Don,

Welcome to Dayton thread..

Generally speaking, if you can get decent reception of analog stations(via your attic antenna - not via locals from direcTV dish), reasonably clear of ghosting+snow or "signs of interference", then chances are very good you'll get good digital(HD) reception as well. This is especially true in our area, where digital stations are running from nice, high transmitting antenna heights, on the same towers as the analogs, and for the most part with a good amount of power. From what I and many others have seen, getting good DTV reception is actually easier than getting good analog reception, but of course, YMMV as there are many variables involved ...

Yes, there are great advantages to using a directional antenna ... A directional antenna will provide much more signal gain than a "omni-directional" or multidirectional antenna in the direction it is aimed, while rejecting signals(and rejecting interference+mulltipath - which creates ghosting on analog signals+can cause digital reception problems too - more info in previous posts here) in the directions it isn't aimed towards.

A directional antenna, mounted outdoors, away from any nearby obstructions and as high as is reasonably possible(and aimed at the towers - Dayton+Cincinnati towers would be in different directions of course from your location, so if you wanted to receive stations from both cities, the best thing to do is use either seperate directional antennas on seperate feedlines(with an A/B switch near receiver to select antennas), or a single antenna w/rotor so you can turn the antenna) Is usually the way to go to get the best reception possible ... Now, this doesn't mean you can't get good reception from indoors, just that its the "way to go" if you want best results ... Many have had excellent results with reception from indoors, and it may work out well for you too, although you might need to do a little work at it ... See previous posts and links to outside sources on antenna/reception info for more details/information on indoor reception ...

Also, Most stations in our area broadcast on UHF presently, but WCPO-DT Cincinnati is on VHF 10 - So, you'll likely need VHF/UHF antenna for best reception ... Once analog shut off occurs, many stations will move their digital stations from UHF back to their current VHF analog channel assignment.

Probably the biggest "problem issue" for good reception in our area is if you live in a low spot, with terrain(Hills) blocking the signal path. Especially problematical can be a high hill very near your location.

Also, you might find the AVSforum Cincinnati thread ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=1 ) useful+informative for info on the Cincinnati Stations/etc.

-------------------------------

Now -- some questions to help us, so we can try to help you more, and hopefully some comments that may be of use to you :

Are you sure you are getting the analogs via the antenna in your attic, and not from the dish?(direcTV sends local SD stations via sat, but they don't send HD from stations via the satellite) ?

If you are getting the local analogs via antenna, are you seeing much ghosting/snow? If not, you should be receiving the digital stations as well. If you are seeing ghosting/snow on the analog stations, which channels are they on? Do you have any stations showing up with a x.1, or x-1 designation on your screen? (such as say, 12-1 for CBS WKRC-DT - Digital/HD - Cincinnati). You should see other numbers besides x.1 from some stations as well, such as 48.2, 48.3, 48.4, 48.5 from WCET-DT, PBS Cincinnati ... Keep in mind, Digital Stations don't send HD all the time -- Only when HD is "available" .. the rest of the time, they send 4x3 SD, just as is on the analog stations, but oftentimes "upconverted" to HD resolutions (It usually won't look a whole lot different in many cases)

What is the Make/Model of Antenna which DirecTV installed in your attic?

What is the Make/Model of the receiver you are using for DirecTV HD/OTA HD reception? Some receivers have certian necessary "settings" that have to be correct before you'll be able to scan for+see the digital stations -- for example, some receivers need a zip code(s) from the area the stations you want to receive so the APG guide info can be "coordinated" for those stations ... Just about all receivers require you to have the Antenna input set for "off-air" reception, instead of "cable" ... If it is set to "cable", then VHF analog stations (ch 2-13) and MAYBE WCPO-DT Digital(ch 10, remaps to 9-x) Cincinnati .. will be all it will be able to "find", as it won't scan UHF channels for signals unless it is set to "off air" or "antenna"/etc ...

Jeff
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post #786 of 6613 Old 02-16-2004, 08:06 PM
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Anyone else with TWC HD just lose DiscoverHD, INHD, and INHD2? I turned them on today and now it says I can have those channels back...FOR A PRICE! They now seem to be subscription channels. What a bunch of BS.
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post #787 of 6613 Old 02-17-2004, 04:24 AM
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Ouch, just when I was thinking about switching to TWC. Any Idea how much $
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post #788 of 6613 Old 02-17-2004, 04:44 AM
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Just checked TWC in Sidney. DiscoverHD, INHD, and INHD2 all still on w/o subscription, other than digital tier.
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post #789 of 6613 Old 02-17-2004, 05:37 AM
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Thanks for the info Nitewatchman. When I get home tonight I'll try to check the model of the antenna. The receiver is a Samsung ts160.

I'm sure that the signals are analog. The receiver has 2 to 4 of each local on the guide, It also indicates weather it is an analog, digital, or satellite signal.

I'll also check the settings on the receiver to make sure they are set correctly.

Thanks again for the help. I'll keep you upated

Don
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post #790 of 6613 Old 02-17-2004, 08:51 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Vader
Anyone else with TWC HD just lose DiscoverHD, INHD, and INHD2? I turned them on today and now it says I can have those channels back...FOR A PRICE! They now seem to be subscription channels. What a bunch of BS.

Yeah me too Vader.

Called them yesterday and they assured me that the channels
are not subscription now.
Made me reboot the STB ect ect.

They scheduled a service call for Friday, even though I told them it
was nothing on my end.

Glad to see your post that confirms that its on their end.

ps I called them again hoping I would get someone that knew what they were doing and got the same response. They called dispatch and they said there were no problems......

Madb

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post #791 of 6613 Old 02-17-2004, 09:57 AM
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Seems to be the norm. When a system doesn't have enough HD channels to warrant a package, it provides them free. Once they have a few, it becomes a tier. DirecTV and Insight both have nearly identical HD lineups at comparable prices. Originally, HDNet was free on DirecTV, too.

On the plus side, this may mean that TW is ready to add ESPN-HD. As I understand it, ESPN-HD charges a much higher per-subscriber fee than the other HD networks. It's probably easier to provide a package of HD channels for 8 bucks than it is to single out ESPN-HD for $6. And this is also an indication that the number of HDTV owners is becoming large enough to make them worth pursuing. The added income might prompt TW (and other carriers) to add more HD, wheras incurring the expense of additional HD channels for no additional revenue isn't quite as appealing.

This also isn't new. Think of all of the channels that are now part of the digital tier or "extended basic" tier that used to be included with basic.

As tough a pill as it is to swallow, it's better to look at this as a benefit of being an early adopter: you got it when it used to be FREE. All the newcomers have to pay from the get-go.

Doc

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post #792 of 6613 Old 02-17-2004, 10:03 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Vader
Anyone else with TWC HD just lose DiscoverHD, INHD, and INHD2? I turned them on today and now it says I can have those channels back...FOR A PRICE! They now seem to be subscription channels. What a bunch of BS.

I'm still receiving them without a problem

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post #793 of 6613 Old 02-17-2004, 11:06 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DJPtron
Thanks for the info Nitewatchman. When I get home tonight I'll try to check the model of the antenna. The receiver is a Samsung ts160.

I'm sure that the signals are analog. The receiver has 2 to 4 of each local on the guide, It also indicates weather it is an analog, digital, or satellite signal.

I'll also check the settings on the receiver to make sure they are set correctly.

Thanks again for the help. I'll keep you updated

Don

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I have a TS160, Let me know if I can help. You'll need to get the firmware update, make sure you have the phone line plugged in.
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post #794 of 6613 Old 02-17-2004, 11:07 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DJPtron
I'll keep you upated
Don

Thanks .. We allways like to hear about how problems are solved, as it helps others ...

What I'm trying to get an idea about is whether the problem you are having with the digital stations may be a reception related problem, or if it's something else ...

Such as perhaps, a problem with the "settings" on your receiver, or even perhaps if everything is hooked up correctly, OR it could be a problem with the integration of Channel tuning/channel remapping info being sent by the station + Guide info/channel remapping info being downloaded from satellite/etc for the Local digital stations in our area --- or something along those lines ...

If it isn't a reception problem, if the manual doesn't tell you enough, perhaps also searching for info in hardware area on the Samsung 160, or even one of the members here with a Samsung 160 could probably help you more ...(update: such as parrot1! I didn't see his post until after I posted this, since we posted at the same time) ....

On the reception side :

1. Assuming your receiver has some sort of "signal meter" for digital stations, Are you getting any sort of indication(to any degree) of signal from the Local Digital stations? Including on the channels the digital stations are actually transmitting on instead of their remapped channels? (remapped channels are likely what you're seeing in the "guide" for digital stations, not the actual channels the station is transmitting on). If you're getting any sort of reception from the analogs off the antenna, you should at least be getting some sort of indication of signal from the digital ...

2. How is your reception of the analog stations(as received off the antenna) in the list I've provided below ? Any(or much) snow/Ghosting on these and if so, which channels are you seeing snow/ghosting on? Are you not receiving some of these channels?

Dayton Analogs:

2,7,16,22,26,40(LP), 45, 47(LP), 55(LP)

Cincinnati Analogs:

5,9,12,19,25(LP), 38(LP), 48, 54, 61(LP), 64

Oxford Analogs:
14, 43

If you aren't receiving the Dayton stations with "LP"(low power) next to them, don't worry ... I wouldn't expect you'd be able to get them all, and even some listed as LP under Cincinnati(probably 54 too) I'd expect to be at least a bit snowy given your location+ that an indoor antenna is being used ...

The reason I'm asking this is, If you can give us an idea concerning what you are/aren't getting with the analog stations, and if you're getting snow/ghosting on certian channels and to what degree, it will tell us something about how well your antenna/reception is working+should be working for reception of digital station, and if your antenna is a directional model, this info might also tell us a little about how it might be aimed...

And again, if you're getting good analog reception(little or no snow ghosting) from most of the stations listed above(excluding perhaps some of the LP's+54), unless something quite odd is going on, you really should be getting good reception from the digital stations as well, and at the very least some sort of indication of signal from at least some of the digital stations involved ...

Jeff
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post #795 of 6613 Old 02-17-2004, 01:42 PM
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Quote:


Called them yesterday and they assured me that the channels
are not subscription now.
Made me reboot the STB ect ect.

Yeah, I finally got a hold of someone in customer service and they assured me too that they haven't become pay channels. So something must be causing a glitch. I need to call customer service again. I called from work today and they said they'd try to send a signal to fix it, but it didn't work.
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post #796 of 6613 Old 02-17-2004, 02:01 PM
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Update on TWC DiscoveryHD, INHD, INHD:

Finally talked to a customer service rep. The channels are NOT pay channels even though the screen currently says they are. They are having problems on their end and engineering is currently working on resolving it. She said there is nothing to do on the consumer end and the channels will come back on as soon as it is fixed. She didn't give me a timetable.

I feel much better now knowing that I won't have to pay extra for these channels.
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post #797 of 6613 Old 02-18-2004, 07:33 AM
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Vader

Thanks for the update.

I had a service tech call last night and he asked about the snow I was getting on some channels

after explaining the problem again his reply was "hmmm"

Still have a service call scheduled for friday, guess I'll keep it
unless the channels come back before then.


"I feel much better now knowing that I won't have to pay extra for these channels."

Me too, but I suspect what DrDon said will come true. Possibly after they add HDmovies and HDnet or ESPN HD, whenever that might be.


Madb

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post #798 of 6613 Old 02-18-2004, 08:15 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Madb

Me too, but I suspect what DrDon said will come true. Possibly after they add HDmovies and HDnet or ESPN HD, whenever that might be.
Madb

If you check back a few pages in the thread I posted that HDNet and HDMovies are supposed to be added within the next 30 days... That was according to my conversation with TWC Western Ohio's marketing manager... Hopefully it will happen, but i'm not holding my breath...

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post #799 of 6613 Old 02-18-2004, 09:17 AM
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Browerjs,

yes I recall your post.
Thats why when I first saw the subscription screen on those 3 channels
I thought, they must be getting ready to add the HDNet and HDmovie channels and go to a teir charge.

I guess a teir charge wouldn't be so hard to swallow if they would add some more channels.

Mad
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post #800 of 6613 Old 02-18-2004, 01:34 PM
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Here's an excerpt from an email I received from Time Warner Western Ohio Marketing Manager regarding CBS and ABC. While nothing definitive, it is encouraging that a resolution could be coming soon:

Quote:


We are negotiating with both ABC and CBS. We too would like to carry both in high def. I would suspect that within the next month or two we should have it wrapped up. CBS gave us permission to carry them in high def not only for the Super Bowl, but through March 3rd. That gives us hope for a speedy resolution.

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post #801 of 6613 Old 02-18-2004, 06:58 PM
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When i watch WHIO-HD I notice 4 or faint vertical blue lines that go up the left side of the television. Does anyone else have this (with TWC or OTA?) I thought it may be convergence settings, but i don't see this on any other HD channel (or SD channel for that matter)

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post #802 of 6613 Old 02-18-2004, 07:04 PM
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Hmm, let me check right now.... brb.

Just checked... I'm watching it through TWC and I can just barely see a couple of faint vertical blue lines on the left side. They are VERY faint though and I had to get my face about a foot from the screen to see them. And even then they were only noticeable depending on what the image pattern on the screen was.

I don't notice it on the SD channel.

Anyway, it's not your TV.
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post #803 of 6613 Old 02-18-2004, 07:19 PM
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It won't find all the references to WHIO-DT + "Blue Lines" in this thread, but try the "Search this thread" function(bottom right of this page) for " Blue Line" and see what you get ....

Jeff
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post #804 of 6613 Old 02-19-2004, 05:16 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by browerjs
When i watch WHIO-HD I notice 4 or faint vertical blue lines that go up the left side of the television. Does anyone else have this (with TWC or OTA?) I thought it may be convergence settings, but i don't see this on any other HD channel (or SD channel for that matter)

It's funny that you should mention the blue lines on WHIO-DT. I was just having a conversation about that last night with the ISF tech that worked on my TV. Those blue lines have been there going on two years now. It's more obvious on a large display during dark scenes.

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post #805 of 6613 Old 02-19-2004, 05:42 AM
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I've noticed the blue lines on occasion.
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post #806 of 6613 Old 02-19-2004, 05:59 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Paul210
It's funny that you should mention the blue lines on WHIO-DT. I was just having a conversation about that last night with the ISF tech that worked on my TV. Those blue lines have been there going on two years now. It's more obvious on a large display during dark scenes.

Paul

Exactly when i notice them... I have a 48" Mits and can notice them pretty easily from 10 feet away especially when i have the lights out and a dark scene... I'll use the search next time nitewatchman, i didn't recall reading anything about it when i read through the entire thread a month or so ago when i found this forum... (I do recall however the annoying line at the bottom of WRGT)

Thanks for the feedback!

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post #807 of 6613 Old 02-19-2004, 06:41 AM
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Vader,

Thats great news about CBS and ABC
BTW The missing HD channels returned yesterday so I canceled the service call.

Browerjs,

I have TWC and a OTA tuner cant say I notice the blue lines with either reciever on my 55" Mits. Will have to look closer when I get home tonight

Mad
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post #808 of 6613 Old 02-19-2004, 09:59 AM
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Can't say I've seen those, (OTA, SAMSUNG DLP), I'll check out CSI tonight.
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post #809 of 6613 Old 02-20-2004, 05:37 AM
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I decided to go to the Rat Shack and get a UHF Yagi and preamp to tinker with.

I now get WKRC, WLWT, and WCET (sometimes) digitals in addition to the Dayton stations. The DTV light blinks for WXIX but won't lock on. Also get some blinking from WSTR but no lock.
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post #810 of 6613 Old 02-20-2004, 10:04 AM
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Well i got my Samsung SIR-T151 delivered today, and it works great... I get all the dayton stations, but i think i'm gonna return my powered radio shack indoor antenna and try one of the zenith silver sensors as they seem to have better indoor results. My channels go in and out a little too much (granted i didn't have much time to try to find a sweet spot, at lunch)... Anyways i already have a question about the OTA receivers... Which stations should be getting guide information? WDTN-DT and WBDT-DT both have their station names passed down but none of the other dayton stations have this? Do any of the dayton stations pass guide information? I'm not really sure how all that works...

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