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post #811 of 6613 Old 02-20-2004, 10:22 AM
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The only one that I have gotten guide information from is WPTD-DT.
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post #812 of 6613 Old 02-20-2004, 10:48 AM
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1450khz,

That's the way to do it! Any luck at all/indication of signal from the Columbus stations?

I'd think it is a good sign you are getting some indication of signal from WSTR-DT. Unless something has changed(I can't tell here) they are running a 17.1 KW ERP STA. The rest of the Cinci digitals(except WCPO-DT 10 VHF) are at 229~800KW ERP.

Hopefully all it will take is finding a little better "sweet spot" for the antenna or something else fairly simple to improve your reception of Cincy stations. The good thing with DTV is, you don't really need much signal for good reception(15.3db of S/N is the "theoretical" threshold), so you're probably just a few db or so from getting better results from Cincinnati.

I'm assuming you have the antenna outdoors, if not then getting it outdoors should greatly improve things. Also, especially if you have the RS U-75R model instead of the U-120R -- getting an antenna with a bit more gain might be be benifical as well. Also, Unfortunetly, those RS preamps aren't usually that great. While they can have high gain figures, they also have high noise figures and can probably also easily overload+create intermod, and that might be an issue you could be dealing with as well.

browerjs,

Just as 1450khz reported, WPTD-DT 58 (16-x) is the only Dayton station I've seen which sends Program guide info OTA via PSIP. I currently have the guides turned off on my receiver which supports them(DTC-100), so I don't know what the present situation is. Sounds like it isn't the case presently, but IF I recall correctly, I had thought that at least the last time I checked, all the Dayton stations except perhaps WHIO sent Station ID via PSIP info -- For instance, 51-1 was labeled as WKEF-HD, and 51-2 labeled as WKEF-SD.

Channel remapping info, programming guides, station ID can all be sent by stations via something called PSIP, which is basically a protocol which allows the stations to send this sort of "extra" information. Different receivers sometimes implement PSIP a bit differently. Most stations these days don't send programming guides(That would probably cost them about $25K) but we'll probably see more of it in the future. WKEF-DT, WHIO-DT and WKEF-DT also don't currently send Channel remapping info via PSIP, which is why for instance, WKEF-DT shows up on their actual channel their broadcasting on (51) instead of being remapped to 22 ....

I'd guess(let's hope anyway) the Silver sensor will probably improve things quite a bit for you. The advantages it has in comparision to the antenna you are using would be that Silver sensor is a directional antenna(see previous posts/info on directional antennas) and also provides some signal gain on UHF(something like 4.5db or so If I remember right).

Your current antenna is not a directional antenna, and judging by its design, probably provides little, if any gain on any given TV channel over a simple "reference" dipole, the latter which is basically a center fed wire cut to 1/2 wavelength on a specific frequency. From the Pic, it looks like your current antenna is just pretty much, a center fed dipole on VHF(rabbit ears - Which is usually plenty of antenna for VHF/FM in many circumstances), and it looks like it's probably a full wave loop antenna on UHF(provides very little, if any add'l gain over a "reference" dipole - but usually works a tad better on UHF than a 1/2 wave dipole would). I know it says in the info that the amplifier "boosts" the signal by 15db, but amplifiers don't really amplify the signal you're getting at the antenna. What is there, is there, only an antenna with more gain can actually "collect" more of the signal. Not that you really need more signal from the Dayton stations, sounds like for the most part you're getting enough, probably more than enough.

The only disadvantage is that it won't work quite as well as "rabbit ears" on VHF, but if you need VHF reception someday(which you don't for the dayton digitals presently), you should be able to easily add a VHF antenna to the setup.

Jeff
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post #813 of 6613 Old 02-20-2004, 11:00 AM
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Thanks for the info... Best Buy has those silver sensor's in stock so i'm looking forward to grabbing one after work and seeing the results... Based on a search over all forums on AVS it looks like the silver sensor has had some great results and in some cases can even pull in digital from stations 45-50 miles away... For 10 bucks more i think it will be worth it... My wife is probably just hoping there isn't a nice weekend day within the next 30 days so i can get up on the roof and try an outdoor antenna

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post #814 of 6613 Old 02-20-2004, 12:42 PM
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Unfortunately, I have to put the antenna in my attic. I'm in a townhouse (rental) so I can't go putting it on top of the building. It's a shame, too, because getting it above the roofline would give me a very nice and clear shot to Cincy. I don't think going outside onto the patio would work, because I'd likely be pointing right at another building instead of over it.

I haven't tried pointing at Columbus yet, although my channel scan did grab a barely perceptible WWHO 53 analog so I *might* get 46.

The Rat Shack pre-amp does suck. I'm getting lots of IM distortion between channels. I was mainly wanting to get something to play with until Warren Electronics can fill my order. I have a CM7777 preamp and a 4221 4-bay UHF antenna on order but I've had them hold it up till the 7777 comes off backorder, though I'm about to see if they can send a 7778 or Winegard amp instead.

Any local dealers for Channel Master gear? I might try that route instead.

I have the U75R. Didn't see any U120R's on the Web, I guess I could have asked in the store. What's the gain like on each?
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post #815 of 6613 Old 02-20-2004, 01:02 PM
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Dayton Wintronic is where I bought my Channel Master. They have the upper line Crossfire series which may not be carried at Loews, etc.

http://winzone.dapsco.com/includes/s...&TemplatePkg=1

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post #816 of 6613 Old 02-20-2004, 01:31 PM
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Thanks, who did you contact there? (I saw several names listed on the contact info.)

I take it they will sell to individuals then, even though they seem to be more of a contractor supply place.
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post #817 of 6613 Old 02-20-2004, 01:41 PM
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Also ... Lowes seems to just carry the CM advantage series VHF/UHF combo antennas+the stealthtenna ... They do have the CM9521 Rotor though, and the CM3041 preamp which might work well for you, if you can't get hold of a CM777X or one of the good Blonder-tongue or Winegaurd preamps. Here's the link to lowes info on the CM3041,(hopefully this link will work for you, as I had to put in my zip code for local store to get to it) :

http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=prod...000693-3041DSB

On the RS U120R -- Unfortunetly, I believe it's been discontinued, although there might be a store or 2 that still has one. I think I had heard some time back(last summer I think) they had them on clearance for something like $3. There was a gain chart for U120R on RS site at one time, but I just checked and can no longer find it ... I'd guess probably something like a 3db improvement over the U75R. Since your indoors and probably need everything you can get, it would Probably be better for you to step up to something like a CM4228 or CM4248 though, if they will "fit" ...

It might also be worthwhile to try what you've got on the balcony too ... Hard to say what is worse, pointing into a building, or having it in your attic -- The thing about the attic is, anything within 10 wavelenths or so "in front" of your antenna becomes especially sort of "connected" to the antenna(which ain't great), so even though there may be obstructions, if the obstruction is farther away than roof of your attic, it still might work better outdoors.

Update: Oh ... I haven't heard anyone talk about this place in a while+I've never ordered from them(but I do recall many used to get stuff from them, and they at least used to sell retail/ship UPS - their site seems to indicate they still do), but here's another place which carries all sorts of antenna/preamp stuff -- Channel Master, Winegaurd, Delhi/Jerrhold, Blonder-Tongue - The works .. this is their Blonder Tongue Preamp page, but you can get to the rest of their antenna stuff off links at bottom of page as well:

http://www.starkelectronic.com/btk1-1.htm

I use the B-T Suburban II here and I've been happy with it, it's "just right" for my location. Since it's been pretty much constantly in use for the last 23 years, I keep meaning to order a new one for when it does kick the bucket, maybe I'd better do that soon given that folks seem to be having a hard time finding amps in stock such as the CM7777! Was sort of hoping the current 10 year old antenna and such would hold out to analog shut off time though, as I might want to do something different once I have a better idea of what the "RF Environment" will be like then .... Of course, I"m too lazy to climb the tower very often too ...

Update 2: I forgot the main page is sort of hard to find from the B-T pages, so Here's the Starkelectronics Main antenna page I bookmarked it this time!(you can get to all the preamps from CM/Winegaurd/etc. from here too) ..

http://www.starkelectronic.com/allant.htm

Jeff
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post #818 of 6613 Old 02-20-2004, 09:01 PM
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1450,

Just call the phone number that's listed for Wintronic. They have several sales reps. They've all been helpful and friendly whenever I've called or stopped in.

The store is your typical electronics type supply house. They will sell over the counter and not just to contractors.

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post #819 of 6613 Old 02-20-2004, 10:59 PM
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Paul,

Did you happen to find out if they keep much of the Channel Master or Blonder-tongue stuff in stock?

You know, I think I might have purchased something from Wintronic before, been quite a while back, but something "clicked" and when I looked at the directions/map to their location on their site, and I think I'm pretty sure I've been up there, as well as have seen them with a booth at Dayton Hamvention, perhaps with some Towers on display, and maybe some specials on Coax ... Anyhow, Seems like I also recall them being friendly+helpful.

Sounds like they Could be very useful for TV reception stuff, as it looks like they carry Channel Master/Blonder-tongue/antennacraft, as well as Belden cable/Rohn(towers - very good ones) .... I'd much rather deal with a local business like that when possible and pick the stuff up myself rather than buying stuff on net and having it shipped via UPS or whatever.

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post #820 of 6613 Old 02-21-2004, 05:56 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Nitewatchman
1450khz,

Channel remapping info, programming guides, station ID can all be sent by stations via something called PSIP, which is basically a protocol which allows the stations to send this sort of "extra" information. Different receivers sometimes implement PSIP a bit differently. Most stations these days don't send programming guides(That would probably cost them about $25K) but we'll probably see more of it in the future. WKEF-DT, WHIO-DT and WKEF-DT also don't currently send Channel remapping info via PSIP, which is why for instance, WKEF-DT shows up on their actual channel their broadcasting on (51) instead of being remapped to 22 ....

Jeff -

My STB (HD300) apparently automatically remapps all of the Dayton locals. i.e. 7, 7.1, 22, 22.1... It also provides all of the program guides for them. Is that a hardware function of the box, or is it receiving it from OTA? I was just curious after reading your post.

Mike

BTW, I finally purchased a RS 15-2160 UHF antenna yesterday. I ended up having to mount it on the side of the house, but it has done an impeccable job of picking up all of the Dayton locals...at least much better than the old rabbit ears I original success with. Unfortunately, I have not been able to pick up anything from Cincy, but I am not too surprised because although I have it mounted outside, it is below the roof line and right across the street from a number of high trees.
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post #821 of 6613 Old 02-21-2004, 06:09 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MNLang
Jeff -

My STB (HD300) apparently automatically remapps all of the Dayton locals. i.e. 7, 7.1, 22, 22.1... It also provides all of the program guides for them. Is that a hardware function of the box, or is it receiving it from OTA?

Your box is getting the information from DirecTV's Advanced Program Guide, not the PSIPs of the local stations. My Zenith 1080 gets all of that, too, although it compares the APG with the PSIP. I get a channel marker, banner and program guide for 22-1. But I have to punch in 51-1 to watch because WKEF-DT doesn't place remapping information in the PSIP. This is confirmed by my ATSC-only Samsung T-151, which has only the PSIP to rely on.

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post #822 of 6613 Old 02-21-2004, 07:07 AM
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Jeff,

I'm not sure how much of the stuff Wintronic has in stock. I know they had most of what I needed. That's where I bought my CM 3671, mast, coax and rotator wire. The CM rotator I wanted was on back-order at the time so I had to pay quite a bit more for it at Lowes. I didn't realize they carried the Blonder-tongue line. I would say it's worth a phone call to them anytime you're looking for something. Like I said, I appreciated the fact they were all so helpful and friendly. I was like a kid in a candy store when I walked in and saw all the parts and electronics stuff. It's also pretty handy for me because it's located just down the street from where I work off S. Dixie.

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post #823 of 6613 Old 02-21-2004, 07:15 AM
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I might take a jaunt over there during lunch break or something, since I have quick access to 4 from my office (near WPAFB area B).
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post #824 of 6613 Old 02-21-2004, 02:49 PM
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hey guys, I'm looking for an avia disk or something similar. Is there anywhere I can go locally to pick it up or should I order it online?
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post #825 of 6613 Old 02-21-2004, 04:02 PM
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jbh, Don't know if they have them in stock at the local stores or not, but this post from the direct-view area indicates bestbuy.com/circutcity.com has them :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...76#post3411776

Jeff
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post #826 of 6613 Old 02-21-2004, 07:05 PM
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thoughts on Shrek? I thought the overal PQ was really nice, but did anyone else get annoyed with the long nbc logo display? What was the deal with that? And another thing, did anyone else notice a crackling noise every so often only on 51-1 not 51-2?
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post #827 of 6613 Old 02-21-2004, 07:22 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jbh613
thoughts on Shrek? I thought the overal PQ was really nice, but did anyone else get annoyed with the long nbc logo display? What was the deal with that? And another thing, did anyone else notice a crackling noise every so often only on 51-1 not 51-2?

I watched Shrek last Sunday when it premiered on NBC and it had that crackling noise... It was a national problem, if you look in the HDTV programming thread there are a lot of people that bitched about it... I do agree Shrek looked great though!!!

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post #828 of 6613 Old 02-21-2004, 07:55 PM
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jbh613,

The reason the NBC logo(peacock+Flag) is there at times on 51-1 is because that is where Local commercials go. The Master Control operator would have to manually keep switching the local ad breaks in and out with their current setup, which would only probably increase the amount of missing HD, and also, he/she is probably already quite busy multasking numerous other tasks. Once they get their new automated switching equipment installed, there should be local commericals there instead of the blank screen+NBC logos.

I've been watching HD "Cast Away" on WDTN-DT/WCPO-DT, but I did tune to WKEF-DT at one point for a few mintues and also noticed the popping sounds. Didn't hear it on WLWT-DT, but again, I didn't tune into HD Shrek for very long ...

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post #829 of 6613 Old 02-22-2004, 01:38 PM
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FYI - WPTD-DT looks to be having their Exciter problem again (Sun 2/22 4:30pm EST) .... At least the last time this happened it was reported by their CE to be an exciter problem .... I just sent their CE a note ...

DTV receiver's can't see it, but they are putting a signal out of sorts on Ch 58, which you should be able detect with a non-screen blanking analog TV ... More info+screenshots of what it looks like on a analog TV in previous post on this thread ...

Just wanted to let anyone here know who is trying to tune them in this afternoon The problem is "not is not in your set or with your antenna" ...

Jeff
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post #830 of 6613 Old 02-22-2004, 04:17 PM
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I noticed the funny signal today while I had a 5" B&W set hooked to my antenna.

Edit: it seems to be fixed now.

I decided to fiddle with the antenna some and do some probing using the Cincy analogs and that portable TV. Tonight I'm actually getting WXIX, but now I can't get WDTN, WKEF, or WRGT digitals.
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post #831 of 6613 Old 02-24-2004, 08:24 AM
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Anyone have an update on when the new equipment will be installed and working over at WRGT? We haven't heard from Roland for awhile

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post #832 of 6613 Old 02-24-2004, 11:40 AM
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I just signed up for TWC Digital Cable (South Dayton, Miami Township) along with an HDTV set-top box and am wondering what brand and model of STB I might be getting. Does anyone know what kind of hardware they're using these days?

I'm hoping that it will have both SVideo and component outputs so I can feed my TiVo with the SVideo signal, and go directly to my Panasonic TH-42PWD6UY with the component signal. Does this sound possible and reasonable?

Thanks!
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post #833 of 6613 Old 02-24-2004, 11:48 AM
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Though I'm not at home, I do know that my TWC STB is a Pioneer model. I know it has component and DVI outputs (though I have not tried the latter to see if it is active), and *think* it has S-Video, but I'm not sure. FWIW, TWC should be rolling out HD PVR/STBs later in the year, and I will have to look hard at trying that out.

Hang on, let me look for a link...

This should lead you to whatever you need to know:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...105663,00.html

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post #834 of 6613 Old 02-24-2004, 06:12 PM
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The box TWC gave me is a Scientific Atlanta.
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post #835 of 6613 Old 02-25-2004, 05:26 AM
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Blabes12

Welcome!

It should be no problem.
I have the pioneer 3000 or 3500
It has S-video, component and DVI outputs
It also has a digital audio out.


JFYI the DVI output works on mine
until I shut the TV off for the night,
Next day its outputing 480p until I reboot it
It just started doing this so it may be the STB going bad



Mad

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post #836 of 6613 Old 02-25-2004, 10:07 AM
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Thanks Madb, Vader, and, HangEmHi.

Looks like most of the modern HD STB's have both svideo and component outputs always active, which should work just fine for my setup. The product docs for the Pioneer model from HangEmHi's reference even suggest that configuration when connecting with a VCR... which is kind of what the TiVo is. May lightning strike me for equating a TiVo with a VCR. :-)

I guess it's a bit of a crap shoot as to which make and model actually shows up.. I'll repost when it's all in place. According to the phone rep, the technician is supposed to provide cables for the hook-up, too. I'm betting that s/he won't have BNC component cables in the truck!
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post #837 of 6613 Old 02-25-2004, 12:13 PM
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My experience was:

First trip, installer did not have a HD box, only a regular box. (This led to a $30 credit). Second trip, guy was nice, but had no clue about digital audio. He was ready to hook it up with cheap TWC supplied component cable and a stereo cable. On the plus side, he did give me a better quality splitter than I had been using.

HD channels are a lot fussier than the "regular" channels (hence the benefit of a better splitter), and eventually they had to come out on a service call and fix something on the box attached to the house (a filter of some sort related to cable internet, which I do not use) which was affecting some of the HD channels.

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post #838 of 6613 Old 02-25-2004, 12:20 PM
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I noticed that FCC recently granted WDTN-DT a CP MOD to increase power to 1000KW ERP(Which is maximum "DTV ERP" allowed on UHF). Also, heard from Jim Atkinsion, CE at WDTN-DT today, and he said he thinks they will be at 1MW by Mid-may ....

They are currently using a 125KW ERP STA with the same antenna they'll be using at 1000KW(it's higher than the Channel 2 antenna on the tower, if I remember right), which seems to get out very well presently also.

The predicted coverage area for the full power facility, as shown in the detailed tech exhibit they sent FCC along with the CP MOD application reaches from a few miles South of Independance, KY all the Way North to Celina ... Hillsboro, London, OH, and Connersville, IN are also included in the predicted coverage area, which comes quite close to West side of Columbus as well ... ALL of Cincy metro area Within I-275 loop, including a bit more in N. KY is within the predicted City grade contour, as are locations N of Dayton such as Sidney, Ft. Laramie and Minster ...They are using a non-directional antenna, so the predicted coverage area is pretty much "circular" ....

Jeff
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post #839 of 6613 Old 02-27-2004, 10:01 PM
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Finally got good enough conditions to pull in WOSU-DT 38 (34-x remap) Columbus tonight ... DTV Log #47 here - 88 miles screenshot attached:
LL

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post #840 of 6613 Old 02-28-2004, 08:55 AM
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Hepburn's Tropo DX forecast showed that conditions would be good last night and even better tonight. I noticed I could pick up WOSU-DT over a very wide angle (> 20 degrees) last night, whereas I usually only get them over a 5 degree angle. Even WOSU analog came through pretty strong with WCET-DT up, which is quite unusual as that is my worst case of co-channel interference and I never get a decent signal until WCET-DT goes off the air.

I played around a little bit and picked up WNDY-DT and the Ft Wayne and (WIBH) anaogs last night also.

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