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post #1171 of 6621 Old 05-11-2004, 11:54 AM
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I never heard an explanation. Many of us have told them about the lines. They've been there for at least the 15 months that I've been watching HD.

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post #1172 of 6621 Old 05-11-2004, 03:27 PM
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WRGT-DT has been working on the aspect ratio problem on 30-1 today, and I'm pretty sure they have it "fixed" currently to send proper aspect ratio for Fox programming. A bit earier, They put up the test Pattern Fox sends for 16x9/Widescreen as received by them from what Fox calls "RX C" for short periods, and since a little after 4 pm, it has been sent properly.

I've been talking to Thom Fowler, WRGT/WKEF Asst. DOE today, and giving him feedback/comparing notes/etc. Just a few mintues ago while we were on the phone, he put up the Fox WS test pattern so I could double check it, and it looks good on both 30-1 and 30-2. Of course, presently 4x3 local/syndicated programming is stretched to 16x9 on both subchannels.

A few points of info from our discussions:

1.) What he might do(if he can) in the future(at least until Fox starts sending HD, at which time the "anamorphic" issue with the Fox programming should no longer be an issue for them) is keep 30-1 as it is presently, and send 480i 4x3 on 30-2 (just like 30-1 used to be prior to mid april). If that works out, I think that would give us the best of both worlds, as in that case we'll get proper aspect ratio for both the Fox/Fox widescreen programming on 30-1, and proper aspect ratio for WRGT programming on 30-2, without any need to adjust the aspect ratio control modes with our equipment.

2.) The Fox guys are AT WRGT-DT right NOW installing the upgrade that is needed at the affiliate for Fox HD(the Fox HD splicer system). So, they will be ready for FOX HD when Fox starts sending it in a few months. It is because of this work(and the addition of the 30-1 720p service) that currently, Audio is coming out of left Channel only from WRGT-DT. Thom said he thinks he'll be able to get it back to 2 channel audio by sometime tomorrow, and that currently, R+L channel audio are both going into a single channel(L) -- So its all "there", but just coming out of one side, temporarily.

3.) The dropped frames I was seeing last night during seinfeld on 30-1 were there because Thom was working on the Aspect ratio issues/etc at the time.

4.) Thom mentioned that he talked to WXIX's CE Today, concerning the Aspect ratio issues with Fox WS/etc, as well as the Fox HD upgrade and what was needed from the affiliates end. I'm not sure where the guys from Fox are going next, but I'd guess(just guessing) they might visit WXIX soon ...

------------------------

That's everything I can think of -- I can't thank Thom+the other Folks at WKEF/WRGT enough for being so responsive on this issue, I'm sure all of us here appreciate it.

Also, thanks to AVSforum member Foxeng, whom I pestered today via PM with some comments/questions which he quickly responded to.

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post #1173 of 6621 Old 05-11-2004, 03:50 PM
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Jeff - Thanks for ALL you do! And thanks to WRGT. I wish the other stations were as open and friendly about this stuff!

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post #1174 of 6621 Old 05-11-2004, 05:53 PM
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Jeff - I tried calling WRGT last week and was kept on hold and eventually transferred to a voicemail. I just hung up as I was in a hurry. Not that it really matters now. I flipped through 30-1 today and was pleasantly surprised it was broadcasting. I too had the problem with the side bars. Hopefully, they have fixed that by now (I at work presently).

The other thing I noticed was 30-2 now has the problem I had before, which was sound only and no visual.
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post #1175 of 6621 Old 05-11-2004, 06:31 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Nitewatchman

2.) The Fox guys are AT WRGT-DT right NOW installing the upgrade that is needed at the affiliate for Fox HD(the Fox HD splicer system). So, they will be ready for FOX HD when Fox starts sending it in a few months. It is because of this work(and the addition of the 30-1 720p service) that currently, Audio is coming out of left Channel only from WRGT-DT. Thom said he thinks he'll be able to get it back to 2 channel audio by sometime tomorrow, and that currently, R+L channel audio are both going into a single channel(L) -- So its all "there", but just coming out of one side, temporarily.

Thanks for answering my question about the audio before i could ask it Too bad it will most likely be like that for 24 tonight, but in the long run who cares, and the 720p(converted to 1080i on my display) now looks a lot better then the 480i that was coming in before....

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post #1176 of 6621 Old 05-11-2004, 09:55 PM
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WPTD-DT 16-6 "think 16 HD" intermittant problem:

I've noticed on a couple of nights over the past week - week 1/2 or so, that occasionally(like right now) from 16-6 and PBS HD channel I'm occasionally getting from what ranges from a Blank screen to the video cutting in and out, to during the Think16 HD "promo" large, black bands. The first night I had seen it, it was fixed after a bit, so I assumed they know about it, since If I recall correctly, I believe they do off-air monitoring.

I'm getting it on both receivers/displays here, so I assume I'm not the only one who has seen this? Audio is fine and the SD program services (16-2~5) are fine.

WHIO Blue lines:

It's really strange, I certianly know they are there for some(or many) folks given the reports here over the past 2 years or more, but I've personally never seen them here. I thought I had seen them once, but that turned out to be another issue when I think their encoder was on the fritz and needed rebooting or something.

Quote:


Originally posted by namx
The other thing I noticed was 30-2 now has the problem I had before, which was sound only and no visual.

I figured that might be the case for you -- what's on 30-2 presently(16x9 480i ATSC format) was the same thing that was on 30-1 from Mid april to a couple of days ago. Hopefully, as mentioned above(at least until they start doing Fox HD after which time the Aspect ratio formatting/etc shouldn't be an issue, I'd think) - they'll be able to put 480i 4x3 on 30-2, just as it used to be before they started doing Fox Widescreen, with 30-1 Video left as it is presently.

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post #1177 of 6621 Old 05-12-2004, 06:38 AM
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WHIO Blue lines:

It's really strange, I certianly know they are there for some(or many) folks given the reports here over the past 2 years or more, but I've personally never seen them here. I thought I had seen them once, but that turned out to be another issue when I think their encoder was on the fritz and needed rebooting or something.

I think I noticed them once or twice. I'm using front projection with an image slightly larger than 5 ft horizontal.

WHIO only seems to care about the DTV channel for stuff like the NCAA's, when I saw a bunch of ads about HD coverage mainly talking about the Time Warner channel. They don't seem very responsive to the viewers at all, so I generally watch CBS HD via WBNS in Columbus instead.

I have yet to use my DTV box this week so I haven't tried out the "new" WRGT setup.
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post #1178 of 6621 Old 05-12-2004, 06:47 AM
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I always have the blue lines, but it doesn't really bother me that much... WHIO seems to be doing a lot better with HD switching even since i've made the switch (jan-feb). They rarely miss anymore for the programs i watch at least. With the exception of Yes Dear last week, which i think was a national problem, considering i saw something come up saying something about NY HD Feed, and the first week of the Golf in HD.

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post #1179 of 6621 Old 05-12-2004, 02:18 PM
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At around noon today i checked 30-1 and I was getting audio out of the left front and the center channel, (instead of just left front as i was last night)... Anyone else seeing this?

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post #1180 of 6621 Old 05-12-2004, 03:57 PM
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browerjs - yep, same here - left and center only.

What about WHIO-DT? I can't get 41-1 or 41-2.

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post #1181 of 6621 Old 05-12-2004, 05:12 PM
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At 6:55pm, I'm getting "proper audio" from both 30-1+2 here. R+L discrete channels, Pro-logic II decoder here is currently sending audio to all 5 channels.

Also, 30-2 is now sending 480i 4x3.

I like it! Everything seems to be working well from WRGT-DT here at least, presently.

-------------------------------

WHIO-DT was off air when I checked about 15 minutes ago or so, but they are currently on air currently at 6:58-7:15pm. Audio problem is still there on 41-2.

--------------------------------

PBS HD from WPTD-DT seems fine tonight, not seeing the problem I was seeing last night. Update 8:10pm -- Well, it was fine earlier, but I'm getting the video "glitches" from 16-6 again currently. I'll send them a note.

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post #1182 of 6621 Old 05-12-2004, 06:50 PM
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Yep, audio OK on 30-1. However, I noticed some macroblocking and artifacting on 30-1 during "That 70's show."
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post #1183 of 6621 Old 05-14-2004, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nitewatchman
At 6:55pm, I'm getting "proper audio" from both 30-1+2 here. R+L discrete channels, Pro-logic II decoder here is currently sending audio to all 5 channels.

Also, 30-2 is now sending 480i 4x3.

I like it! Everything seems to be working well from WRGT-DT here at least, presently.


30-2 is sending 480i 4x3 for me also. But guess what? No picture. Just audio. Only reason I know it 480i 4x3 is that I can change my aspect to 4x3 standard, zoom, etc. Maybe it is just my brand of TV. Not really matter though, as long as 30-1 is working. I have WS TV anyway.

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post #1184 of 6621 Old 05-14-2004, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1450kHz
Yep, audio OK on 30-1. However, I noticed some macroblocking and artifacting on 30-1 during "That 70's show."

Yes, I watched American Idol on Tuesday (11 May), and the AI Results Show on Wednesday (12 May) - there was *definitely* more macroblocking on Wednesday. Both shows were "live" (probably some sort of delay) so it should have been a good comparison.

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post #1185 of 6621 Old 05-14-2004, 12:06 PM
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I've been saying, "Goodbye to the future of Rock and Roll", and I haven't paid much attention to TV/HD the last few days. I've been listening to 97x off air for over 20 years, therefore last night just after 12am hearing the above quoted words as the last sounds emanating from 97x before 40+ minutes of silence(the carrier was still up until programming under new ownership began around 12:45am) made for a sad time here ... It was a very classy way to sign off, as well as a bit of broadcasting history which I doubt I'll forget. I, and I know many others will miss them.

A bit OT, let's hope we never see any of our local DTV/HD broadcasters "signing off" the airwaves in any sort of permanant fashion.

Anyhow, back on topic --- from the limited DTV/HD monitoring I've done the past few days, follows are the issues I've noticed :

WRGT-DT :

Frequent Video "freezes" on 30-1 during ST:Voyager ONLY with my Zenith HDV420+display(s) I'm using with it - The other display/receiver here is fine. I haven't noticed it with any other programming from WRGT-DT besides ST:Voyager, but then again, I haven't checked much other programming. The local ad inserts/station promos/etc during ST:Voyager last couple of nights were fine as well, but the freezes were occuring with the other commercials.

Best way I could explain it would be, it's like what you get if you're watching streaming Video over a dialup connection and the video freezes occasionally. Pretty much the same thing I described seeing from 30-1 in a preceding post on last page during "seinfeld" one day last week, and also similar to what I've seen from WSYX-DT when I've seen them over the past year or so during ABC HD, except instead of dropping frames, it looks more just like short freezes.

Not seeing the problem at all from 30-2, and again, it isn't occuring at all on 30-1 (as is the case with this similiar problem with WSYX-DT) on my other setup here (RCA F38310 w/internal DTC-100). It happens with the Zenith box no matter how I output video, Via component, RGB(VGA), Svideo/Composite, 1080i/720p/480p/480i/etc -- to Samsung TXN2668WHF HD display, or to a PC monitor via RGB/VGA out, or a POTV(plain old TV) via composite out. Besides the decoder/receiver being different on the two setups, only other thing I can think of that is different is the F38310 does 3:2 pulldown, the displays I'm using with the Zenith Box do not. I've never seen this, or anything similar happen anywhere else (besides WSYX-DT).

WRGT-DT 30-1 Compression artifacts(what you guys are calling "macroblocking") :

I did do a quick check Wed of 30-1 just after 9pm after I had seen 1450khz's post, and I didn't see any difference in compression artifacts at the time between 30-1, and WXIX-DT 19.1 -- I was seeing some compression artifacts from both stations however -- Which seemed odd to see from WXIX, as they run a single program service, upconverted to 1080i. I just looked at it for a few seconds though, and not really under the best circumstances to do a good comparision.

I didn't check the analog stations or 30-2 at the time, but I do recall there have been occasions over the past couple of years, such as during a couple of NFL games and NASCAR races when compression artifacts(what you guys are calling "macroblocking") were an issue concerning the nat'l Fox feed which affected both analog and digital stations, on a national level.

Again, however I haven't had the chance to look at it closely enough yet to comment much where compression artifacts are concerned on 30-1.

-----------------------------------------

WHIO-DT 41-2 Audio - Still broke - I sent a note to the 7online email BTW, for all the good it would do. I started off by asking them to forward the note to enginnering, and also asked if they could tell me what the best way is to contact their engineering staff. I also sent the link to this thread+invited them to join us or monitor us. I haven't heard anything back yet, not that I was expecting to.


-------------------------

WPTD-DT - PBS HD from 16.6 was fine last night when I checked. I wasn't seeing the video "glitches" I mentioned earlier which I've seen occasiionally over the past week or two.

However -- the past couple of nights(and presently even though they are in 4 channel SD mode) I noticed audio was missing from 16.4 when they were in HD mode. OF course, I first noticed the missing audio from 16.4 just after I'd sent their CE a note concerning the video glitches I was seeing on 16-6 occasionally, as I'd also said in the note that A/V from 16.2~16.5 were fine ... I suppose I'll have to send them a follow up "updated" note concerning the 16.4 audio.

I also asked for an update on when they currently expect WPTO-DT 28 (ThinkTV14 analog, Oxford) On air. WPTO-DT will be broadcasting from WXIX tower in Cincy. Last we had heard from them in Cincy thread, they were planning on a mid-may on air date, if Weather/etc. cooperated for the necessary tower work. I'll post if/when I hear anything back - They are probably busy with WPTO buildout/etc.

------------------------------

IMO ... These sorts of issues I think are to be expected at this stage of the game ... I think if we were to draw an analogy between DTV/HD broadcasting and NTSC TV broadcasting, It would probably be about 1953 right now. I expect it will get "smoother" as time goes on .... especially when the DTV station becomes as important(or more important) than the analog .....

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post #1186 of 6621 Old 05-14-2004, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
I've been saying, "Goodbye to the future of Rock and Roll", and I haven't paid much attention to TV/HD the last few days. I've been listening to 97x off air for over 20 years, therefore last night just after 12am hearing the above quoted words as the last sounds emanating from 97x before 40+ minutes of silence(the carrier was still up until programming under new ownership began around 12:45am) made for a sad time here ... It was a very classy way to sign off, as well as a bit of broadcasting history which I doubt I'll forget. I, and I know many others will miss them.

Truly a sad night last night. I recorded the last two hours to my mp3 player, but I doubt I will want to listen to those tearful and sorrowful goodbyes again. What a shame to wake up and hear a station that sounds just like all the others, and also that it and two local stations serving Brown County will soon be no more, all in the name of a move-in and a buck.
Thank God I changed my mind and didn't go into radio, as I am disgusted with what's happened to that industry. Actually, make that with the music industry in general....

Back on topic, I haven't checked out WRGT-DT since Wednesday, so I'm not sure what the situation is there....I haven't seen any dropped frames on my T165 box, just the macroblocking or MPEG-type artifacts. I didn't try to compare to WXIX to see if it was a bandwidth issue for the network or not. Audio levels are still really low, I wish they would crank them up and level things a little better as I get blown away during the local breaks if I crank up my receiver to hear the network sound.

Are we due for 5.1 via WCPO soon? I think I saw on their website that they are moving to their new building this weekend....
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post #1187 of 6621 Old 05-14-2004, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1450kHz
Are we due for 5.1 via WCPO soon? I think I saw on their website that they are moving to their new building this weekend....

I think so -- They said in one of their recent email newsletters they'd have DD 5.1 soon, and they've said it will be after they move into their new building. As I just posted on Cincy thread, during noon news they said they'll be doing the news Monday morning from the new studios.

When they do start doing 5.1, they'll probably also soon update the bit at the bottom about Stereo Surround Sound here:

http://www.wcpodt.com/

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post #1188 of 6621 Old 05-14-2004, 01:28 PM
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I would imagine the first priority is to work the bugs out before turning their attention toward the DT. And, with a whole facility move, there are bound to be more than a few bugs. I'd say a month at the earliest.

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post #1189 of 6621 Old 05-14-2004, 04:05 PM
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Certianly, Doc.

I suppose I might have a little different take than others(especially newer members) concerning the time frame encompassed by the word "soon" where these matters are concerned.... Considering the time frame involved with "soon" on occasion with this sort of thing in the past ..... In this case, I was thinking "soon" could cover the time frame between now, and when WDTN is airing NBC programming ;-)

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post #1190 of 6621 Old 05-15-2004, 02:04 PM
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Both WCPO-DT+WDTN-DT are missing HD for the NHL playoff game today. I'm guessing the move to the new building might have something to do with it for WCPO.

I called WDTN-DT newsroom ( (937) 293-5121 ) around 3:50pm+asked them to ask control room to switch to ABC HD feed. HD switching for WDTN-DT is normally controlled from LIN/WISH facility in Indianapolis, but if I recall correctly, I believe they can do something about it in Dayton as well, but I'm not sure. I don't see(nor am I getting DD 5.1 indication on my receiver, which is allways the case during ABC HD feed/Nat'l commercials) any change yet as of 4:05pm .. Maybe they need more people to call

BTW, I also sent WDTN-DT CE a note.

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post #1191 of 6621 Old 05-15-2004, 02:55 PM
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Called.. got the "our HD is routed through Indianapolis and I think we had a couple other people call.." response from a nice guy named Jason. He said he was looking into it.

NEXT!!

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post #1192 of 6621 Old 05-16-2004, 01:07 PM
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Is WHIO channel 41 down for everyone? I can't get a signal a 3:07

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post #1193 of 6621 Old 05-16-2004, 01:34 PM
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WHIO-DT 41 is currently off air, it has been for at least the past couple of hours. Seems to be happening quite a bit on weekends recently. HD golf fine from WKRC-DT Cincinnati currently.

BTW, WCPO-DT Cincinnati is currently off air as well -- No ABC HD from them either Fri or Sat -- Both probably due to their Studio move.

Also noticed that in addition to Missing HD from the Hockey game yesterday, WDTN-DT was missing ABC HD each time I checked during Harry Potter last night, except for a few minutes of it during the first 30 minutes.

WXIX in Weirdscreen mode last night for Fox Prime+MadTV, and during Fox News Sunday this morning.

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post #1194 of 6621 Old 05-17-2004, 11:07 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by breedingamies
Has a supervisor got back to you yet? This is ********. I've been a Time Warner customer for a few years now have road runner and most of the premium channels. Now they take away my HDTV and want me to pay more. Let them know when they call you are not the only upset customer and give them the link to this forum. They can see for themselves.

Second TWC Update (Short Version):

Well, it took two days, and four phone calls to four different CSRs, but finally I got what I wanted.

Longer Version:

First CSR I mentioned already said only for new customers, I'll have a supervisor call you back within 48 hours.

Wait two days, no call. Call, speak to Second CSR. Nice, cheerful, but new, and after much waiting on hold, says I can get the package at the new price, but she can't figure out how to ala-carte add the HD Tier.

Hang up, start driving home. In the meantime, wife at home discovers that Second CSR disconnected the digital cable entirely. Speaks to Third CSR who restarts service.

I get home, and find that service is back, but minus Showtime. Speak to Fourth CSR, who reconnects Showtime, and adds the HD Tier, so FINALLY, after much grief, I have a lower cable bill *and* the HD Tier.

Wa hoo!

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I contacted WHIO today and spoke with engineering about the downtime of digital station 41-1 and 41-2. They said that it was down due to upgrading to full power and should be back up sometime on Tuesday. While I was speaking with them I also asked them if they would be upgrading to DD5.1 anytime soon. I don't recall seeing this posted before, but, they said that they currently have the equipment and it's just a matter of doing the upgrade, but that we should be receiving DD 5.1 from WHIO shortly. Good news from them!


On another note for the TWC subscribers, I called them today concerning the new price of the DigiPic2000 package and was able to get the new deal of 59.95 that includes one box. This cut down my bill 20 bucks. I had no problem getting this deal, and just mentioned it didn't say anything about new subscribers only on the website. The CSR changed a couple of codes, gave me my price, it was still higher then i expected, so i had them tell me all my extras i was paying for, and found the discrepancy's to get the 20 bucks knocked off. If you get a bad CSR (and believe me I've talked to quite a few idiots at TWC) that doesn't know anything, just ask for their supervisor and they will usually get everything straightened out.

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post #1196 of 6621 Old 05-17-2004, 01:03 PM
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Thanks for the info on WHIO-DT browerjs. Good news about the power upgrade+DD 5.1.

Would also be nice if they could also took this oppurtunity to drop 41-2+increase bandwidth available to HD so we don't get the intolerable(IMHO) compression artifacts during bandwidth demanding portions of HD programming. On the other hand, 41-2 has been handy when they put weather bugs/etc up on 41-2, and have left the HD alone -- Not too handy though if the audio is broken, as its been the past 2 weeks+ on 41-2 ....

Full power for them should be 1000KW ERP, with directional antenna that doesn't favor SW (right towards Me+ WDRB 41 Lousiville tower). Nevertheless, Past few years however I've been getting them like gangbusters here with 9 KW ERP(.19 relative field strength)that should be getting sent my way with their current 275 KW ERP STA. They are probably the hardest Dayton Station to pull in with simple antennas from indoors from my location, however. See here for more info on their full power CP(construction permit) :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state...&mlon2=&slon2=

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post #1197 of 6621 Old 05-17-2004, 01:31 PM
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Another TWC-HD update... I contacted the marketing director for TWC-Western Ohio, asking if we would be getting TNT-HD for it's official launch (I guess there was some HD on this weekend for the NBA in the markets that it was already showing up, but i think official launch is 5/19/04). She answered me saying that TWC-WO would be carrying it later this week.

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post #1198 of 6621 Old 05-17-2004, 02:38 PM
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Thanks, browerjs, that's good news. Not as good as ABC-HD or ESPN-HD, but still welcome!

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post #1199 of 6621 Old 05-17-2004, 05:35 PM
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Quote:


Thanks for the info on WHIO-DT browerjs. Good news about the power upgrade+DD 5.1.

Would also be nice if they could also took this oppurtunity to drop 41-2+increase bandwidth available to HD so we don't get the intolerable(IMHO) compression artifacts during bandwidth demanding portions of HD programming. On the other hand, 41-2 has been handy when they put weather bugs/etc up on 41-2, and have left the HD alone --

It almost makes me wonder if the same person set up all the Dayton digitals, because they all are running SD subchannels for no apparent reason.

It's good to hear WHIO will be adding DD 5.1, but until they start giving the HD enough bandwidth I will keep watching WBNS.
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post #1200 of 6621 Old 05-17-2004, 06:25 PM
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The grapevine has said that WKRC-DT Cincinnati *might* start giving CBS HD everything(except that needed by PSIP/audio of course)after Webhopper is discontinued. The vine also said WKRC-DT *might* get DD 5.1 later this summer or fall as well ....

According to their website+ a AVSforum member(who works at 'KRC on Webhopper) on Cincy thread, Webhopper IS being discontinued on WKRC-DT on 5/31/04 at 23:59 EDT.

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