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Old 06-07-2004, 05:17 PM
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I'm seeing the audio lag, too. Rebooted the STB and it got a whole lot closer, but still not synched perfectly. Noticed it was off a little bit on Cincinnati, too. But the reboot fixed that one.

Doc

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Old 06-07-2004, 06:04 PM
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buckeye1010 I used to live in Centerville, on the 45458 zip code. For what ever reason Direct TV's database thinks that is part of the Cincy DMA. Dish Network's thinks it is part of Dayton's.
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Old 06-07-2004, 07:42 PM
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Buckeye1010,

That seems odd about the 16-6 remapping issue you're having, since it looks to me like they're sending PSIP info OTA correctly ... It's been fine here anyway -- wonder if maybe D*'s EPG isn't getting it right+matching up with the PSIP for some reason. When I looked last night though, they did have a blank screen on 16-6, but with audio, and 3 SD services running on 16-2~4. Seems fine tonight, though.

Also noticed they had made some changes to their SD programming services. 16again that was on 16-4 is now on 16-3, PBS kids on 16-4, Simulcast of WPTO 14 Analog is now gone off 16-5, replaced by Ohio related programming(they've had some Ohio supreme court cases on in the afternoons/etc) as well as some PBSYou on 16-5. I think they may have been working on some things over the past 3 weeks+ or so as well, as I did see some "new" bugs popping up from time to time, and missing audio and such occasionally here and there among other things(which has mostly seem to have cleared up in the past week+ or so) and that some of the new promos for thinkDTV/etc have run as 16x9 video "squeezed" into a 4x3 frame on their various programming services(just like "weirdscreen" from WXIX-DT, pretty much).

Anyway -- on their website, They've announed their new lineup of programming services for WPTD-DT(ThinkDTV16) and WPTO-DT 28(ThinkDTV14), although WPTO-DT not yet on the air from WXIX tower in Cincinnati, it doesn't look like. Here is info on it from their website :

http://www.thinktv.org/about/future.html

Jeff
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Old 06-08-2004, 03:12 AM
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er824 - yep, 45458. Hope we can convince them we Do live in Dayton. I use the locals through DirectTV for SD Tivo.

Jeff - the problem with Dayton PBS and the HD Tivo, I think, stems from the lack of a 16-1. The problem actually exists for the whole set of 16-.x channels. The program data for 16-6 is listed under 16-5, the program data for 16-5 is listed under 16-4, etc. I have read of similar problems in other cities, where the .1 channel doesn't exist.

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Old 06-08-2004, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
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You're not going to have much luck about getting Dayton locals. DirecTv uses the Nielsen breakdowns by zip code.
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Old 06-08-2004, 05:47 AM
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THE NEW MASTER CONTROL ARE ON LINE FOR WPTD AND WPTO. WPTO WILL BE BROADCAST FROM THE TRANSMITTER SITE THIS COMING WEEK-END. LOOK OUT FOR MORE BUGS.
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:53 AM
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I picked up TWC HD service about a year ago just in time for football season only to find out they only carried NBC and FOX the neither of which were doing HD football at the time. I prompty cancelled because they told me I would be able to see ABC, NBC, FOX, and CBS in HD.

You guys have been talking about all the local stations. Has TWC updated there service to get ABC's and CBS's HD over the cable lines yet? Or are you guys doing OTA local pickup? Can TWC box do OTA channels? I could get this answered from TWC but I have learned to distrust what minimum wage CNSRs say.

Thanks for your time!
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:06 PM
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TWC cable carries CBS-HD(WHIO), FOX Widescreen(WRGT) upconverted to 720p and will be HD when FOXHD launches, NBC-HD(WKEF), PBS-HD, TNT-HD, and Discovery-HD. So currently only ABC-HD(WDTN) is the only local not offered by TWC. If you subscribe to the HD Tier, you also get INHD1, INHD2, HDNet, HDMovies, and if you get HBO or Showtime, HBO-HD, and SHO-HD are included. The box doesn't offer OTA reception. I have the Digipic2000 package which includes all the channels above including HBO and SHO On Demand for 60 bucks a month.
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Old 06-14-2004, 07:02 AM
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I see WHIO was splitting their feeds last night, with 41-1 running CBS HD from network while 41-2 was airing the ohmygoshwe'reallgonnadie Super Dooper Doppler wall-to-wall weather thunderstorm panic report.

I guess WDTN doesn't have this capability, as both 2-1 and 2-2 were doing the ohmygoshwe'reallgonnadie Super Dooper Doppler 2x wall-to-wall weather thunderstorm panic report (with 2-1 in SD). I wound up having to go to analog pickup of channel 9 in Cincy to see the start of the finals game last night. Eventually DTN did go over to HD with no weather bugs on 2-1 while keeping the bugs on 2-2.

I thought about calling DTN to ask for HD on 2-1, but figured that no one would pick up while they were in thunderstorm panic report mode. I can do without weather bugs as I have a perfectly good NOAA radio that will light up if there is a warning for my county.
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Old 06-14-2004, 07:06 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by 1450kHz


I thought about calling DTN to ask for HD on 2-1, but figured that no one would pick up while they were in thunderstorm panic report mode.

You should have called them and told them you had a weather report, and that they should put you on the air.... then, when they put you on...... hmmm

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Old 06-14-2004, 07:47 AM
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WDTN-DT DOES NOT drop from HD because of "weather bugs". I've noticed that Neither has any of the other Dayton Stations with HD/SD subchannels(Cincinnati stations w/o SD subchannels are another story).

If you have ever noticed, they will run HD on 2-1, with the weather bugs up on 2-2, occasionally putting the bugs up during commercials on 2-1. As for "live reports", that is understandably(IMO) another story. Stations are on the air to serve the PUBLIC INTEREST -- This interest (at least for some) includes emergency weather info.

But yeah, I would agree that IMO WDTN(and WHIO too) has, on certian occasions been overdoing the radar reports a bit as of late ... My guess is, up until this year, It's probably because we really haven't had a lot of rough weather the past few years. For WX info(Including local radar), personally I use WCPO-DT's Weather subchannel (9-2) quite often.

Anyhow, I didn't watch the entire game, but, except between 8-9pm, when I was looking, they had HD on 2-1 for the BB game. So, evidently it happened at other times as well, but the only time I saw the radar break in on 2-1 was between 8+9pm, and they noted during that time they would break in during the BB game if they thought it necessary.

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Old 06-14-2004, 08:19 AM
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Hey, it was SD with weather bugs when I started watching it. Not sure when they switched because I went to 2-2 instead so it wasn't squished (due to the lightning I was watching it on a 4x3 computer monitor via RGB instead of my DLP projector....don't want to risk damaging a $500 bulb).

At first I was getting wall to wall weather on 2-1 and 2-2 pre-empting the NBA game, so I went to WCPO 9 analog just to get the game instead of weather panic. I can't get WCPO digital at all.

Quote:


But yeah, I would agree that IMO WDTN(and WHIO too) has, on certian occasions been overdoing the radar reports a bit as of late ...

WDTN is trying to show off their new toy I think.
That, and desperately trying to increase news ratings.

Quote:


You should have called them and told them you had a weather report, and that they should put you on the air.... then, when they put you on...... hmmm

Naaaah, I don't do that kinda thing.
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Old 06-14-2004, 08:58 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by 1450kHz
Hey, it was SD with weather bugs when I started watching it. Not sure when they switched because I went to 2-2

Well, of course anytime they have SD Video(Same as from analog+2-2) running on 2-1 for whatever reason, if there's a WX bug there it will show up. But so far anyway -- my point was, they haven't done it JUST because the WX bugs/etc. are there(except during commercials, even commercials from the Net feed). Also, Remember, HD switching WDTN switching is normally controlled from LIN facilities in Indianapolis -- so my guess is, they might have kept the SD up on 2-1 during certian times last night if they were expecting a WX break in, or they might have just "messed up".

I had noticed the Live weather reports between 8-9, which was when they said they wouldn't break in during the game unless it was absolutely necessary ... Next time I checked (not sure what time it was -- I think maybe around 10 or just a bit after or so), it was HD on 2-1, and a WX Bug on 2-2.

Quote:


Originally posted by 1450kHz
I can't get WCPO digital at all.

WCPO-DT on the other hand, DOES drop from ABC HD (and did last night as well) FOR weather bugs or any locally inserted graphics -- because the switcher involved is slaved to the analog video whenever they insert local graphics/etc. I did notice that at some point last night(I think it was after WDTN-DT already had ABC HD, but not sure), WCPO-DT did finally switch to HD anyway(They CAN do it, although I don't think it's all that "easy" for them the way they have it set up), even though there was (I think) still a WX bug up on the analog. Must've got a bunch of calls or something ...

For the most part, WKRC-DT didn't drop from HD for their bug last night, except once that I noticed during the movie -- I'm not sure if that was a mistake+they forgot to switch back to HD after a break(they do manual switching, wheras WHIO-DT evidently uses a autoswitcher).

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Old 06-14-2004, 09:44 AM
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Speaking of WHIO, I don't know what they use to do switching on the UPN station (cable only) but there are frequent technical screw-ups on it. Lots of dead air, shows coming back from commercial with video and no audio, or audio and no video, and so on. I wonder if that's why D* is putting WBQC out of Cincy as the UPN station in the Dayton locals package. Bet that frosts them a bit down at Cox.

Anyway, the former UPN44/Miami Valley Channel has apparently moved down to 17 (and the basic cable tier) from 44....with 44 now having a slide up notifying of the change. Anyone know what might take that empty slot on the analog cable now?
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:21 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by 1450kHz
I wonder if that's why D* is putting WBQC out of Cincy as the UPN station in the Dayton locals package.

Don't know .. Seems odd though they are using WBQC -- A class A, LP station -- It's Grade B contour Goes No farther North than Northern Cincinnati -- I'm about 11 miles out from the edge of its Grade B Contour(and I'm still in Cincy DMA, BTW even though I'm only 12 miles from Dayton towers) ... And I get it, but its a little snowy.

You'd think they'd use WWHO, which is viacom O&O -- But, of course they are UPN primary+WB secondary(with HD from both, BTW).

Speaking of WWHO-DT ... They are booming in down here tonight, as are all the other Columbus DT's (except WTTE-DT -- They did move the meter a bit, but noise from WTVQ 36 lexington is "bugging them" a little too much - I've only seen WTTE-DT a couple of times with their LP signal ) Of course, WCMH-DT 14(78 Miles - Az. 70) is just blasting right through WPTO 14(18 miles - Az. 252) signal off the back of the antenna, and WOTH-LP 38 Cincy isn't hurting WOSU-DT either ...... WCMH-DT is also snowing up WPTO 14 a little(but not a lot) with my antenna aimed right at WPTO --- Seen that quite often --- Those two are especially really too close together IMO ...

Anyhow, I see that WBNS-DT is now supporting EIA-708 captions so my Zenith HDV420 can see them(It ONLY does EIA-708 captions) --- They are now only the second station I've seen support EIA-708 captions fully -- the other being WLWT-DT.

Attached is a low quality screenshot of WWHO-DT 46 (53-1 remap) from 10:00pm here (I finally get to see some WB HD!) :
LL

Jeff
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Old 06-17-2004, 07:53 PM
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Well, for PBS HD tonight -- WPTD-DT's HD encoder appears to be sending junk for video tonight, WCVN-DT (KET4 Covington, KY) is in "blank screen mode" most of the time with a occasional frame of video+bits of audio(And it's very rare to see them have problems) ... BUT I can watch HD Soundstage/Fleetwood Mac on WCET-DT Cincinnati (DD 5.1 audio too) ...

And people wonder why it is necessary to have TWO backups with some systems .... If it ever occurs that all 3 are having problems at the same time, then I suppose I should really start worrying Although, of course then I wouldn't be able to tell whether it was a local or network issue!

Update 11:10pm : PBS HD from WCVN-DT currently fixed ....

Jeff
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Old 06-18-2004, 03:08 AM
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WPTD-DT really hurt me with that! I have no PBS-HD back-up channel with my attic antenna and I was looking forward to that Soundstage Fleetwood Mac concert. Hopefully, they'll get it fixed before the replay scheduled for 10 PM on Saturday.

Kevin
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Old 06-18-2004, 05:32 PM
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WPTD-DT note:

WPTD-DT 16-6/PBS was still broke at 6pm when they first went back into "HD mode" tonight, but it was fixed by 7:30pm -- although there are 3 SD services up -- As "normal" 16-2(Think16), 16-3(Think again), but also 16-5 w/PBS You presently.

------------------
WKEF-DT note:

I have noticed each time I checked over the past week(since about sun or so - I checked L&O on Sun, and a couple tonight show's as well as ER last night), NBC HD was missing from WKEF-DT(During those times NBC HD was Fine from WLWT-DT). I sent them a note about it late last night, and they said they would check it out tonight.

Update 11:35pm : Leno in HD on both WKEF-DT/WLWT-DT tonight

For some reason, "Vegas" was not HD on either WKEF-DT or WLWT-DT tonight(at least when I was looking), although the "HD where available banner" was on screen at beginning of show -- Which, has occured before with a episode of "American Dreams", and "ER" and was a National issue -- Don't see any info anywhere about tonight's Vegas not being in HD elsewhere, however so I don't know if it was a Nat'l issue or local issue with both WLWT/WKEF ....

Jeff
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Old 06-18-2004, 08:53 PM
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As I mentioned in another thread here, I'm planning to look for a closeout or open-box HD receiver from the local electronics stores. According to antennaweb.org, I should be able to use a standard set-top antenna from my location. I'm in the Linden Heights neighborhood, 5.6-5.9 miles from the broadcast towers for all (6) Dayton stations.

Anyone else in the general area or further away, for that matter, who's able to use a regular antenna ?? "Northeast" Kettering or "East" Beavercreek are pretty close to me too.
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Old 06-21-2004, 05:57 AM
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I'm in Beavercreek Township, and I can pick up all dayton locals using a $30 silver sensor antenna purchased at Best Buy.
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Old 06-24-2004, 04:42 PM
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I posted this in Cincy thread as well, but for those who aren't subscribed to Cincy thread:

What I assume is WPTO-DT 28 is apparently on the air at 7-7:30pm 6/24 -- However, can't decode anything on either receiver, can just see a "full bore" 8VSB signal on 28 from the South with a steady 100% on Zenith HDV420 Signal quality meter. Being co-located with WXIX-DT on the same tower seems to be working well, WXIX-DT 29 is a good, strong signal (100% Signal quality on Zenith as usual from them as well.)

Their Transmitter/antenna/Exciter and the 8VSB Channel coding(FEC/etc) seem to be working perfectly, but -- I'm Looking forward to actually being able to see something

Jeff
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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What's the difference between the transmission of 22-1 and 45-1? I thought they are at the same location. I just got my new Zenith Silver Sensor and am pulling in all the locals at 100% strength with no problems except 45-1. It's showing up at 100%, but breaking up like mad.
BTW, I am in Kettering approx. 5.5 miles ESE from the transmitters.
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Old 06-27-2004, 09:23 AM
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Has anyone else noticed the pixelization and general video deterioration of the PBS Soundstage series on WPTD-DT, most recently with the Sheryl Crow concert? I think it's due to reduced bandwidth from several subchannels running at the same time.

When I check the broadcast stream using TSReader Lite, I'm seeing only 6-7 Mb/s for the recent Fleetwood Mac and Sheryl Crow concerts versus 10+ Mbs for last season's Alison Krauss and Union Station concert. I don't receive the Cincinnati stations but does anyone know if they have the same problem? IMHO, it pretty much negates the benefits of HDTV.

Kevin
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Old 06-27-2004, 04:34 PM
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Gindie,

Info on WRGT-DT here (The STA+CP listed for digital channel 30 - Not sure if they are at Full power or using the STA (Their CE did tell me a while back they were at full power) - You should be in a favorable spot for their directional antenna pattern -- I'm in their worst null to SW of their tower, but I get them like gangbusters, here. Easiest station to receive with a simple indoor antenna here :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state...&mlon2=&slon2=

Info on WKEF-DT here : (See The STA + CP listed for Digital channel 51 - I do know they told me they were using the STA some time back because of a issue with their current transmitter -- Their STA isn't much less power than their full power allocation -- I'm thinking most probably wouldn't notice if they up the power a bit to full power ...

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state...&mlon2=&slon2=


I'd guess finding a "sweet spot" for best reception with the Silver Sensor might be your best bet. If you find out its something other than a reception issue on your end, ou could try contacting them + asking what they're currently running with if you like as well (FWIW, I haven't noticed any problems with their signal), or just ask them anyway if you want to know for sure(FCC site is usually quite accurate but not allways).

BTW, All the Dayton digital stations are on the same tower farm. WRGT-DT, WBDT-DT, and if I remember right WKEF-DT (along with analogs 26+45) broadcast from the same tower It's The one with the crossmember+3 masts on top, which used to be just WRGT 45 tower. WKEF analog(maybe the Digital too, not sure) is on a different tower a stone's throw away. - All the Dayton DTV trasmitting antennas are nice and high, and perhaps with a little moving the antenna around to find a good spot for all of them, I'd think you should have a good shot of being able to pull them all in fairly easily from your location.

------------------------------------
-----------------------------------

Quote:


Originally posted by kVp
Has anyone else noticed the pixelization and general video deterioration of the PBS Soundstage series on WPTD-DT, most recently with the Sheryl Crow concert? I think it's due to reduced bandwidth from several subchannels running at the same time.

When I check the broadcast stream using TSReader Lite, I'm seeing only 6-7 Mb/s for the recent Fleetwood Mac and Sheryl Crow concerts versus 10+ Mbs for last season's Alison Krauss and Union Station concert. I don't receive the Cincinnati stations but does anyone know if they have the same problem? IMHO, it pretty much negates the benefits of HDTV.

Kevin

6-7Mps is the Maximum reading from the transport stream analyer? I believe it -- No WONDER it looks so bad lately ... yikes. I thought it looked bad before, and can believe it was at 10mb/s max as well ... For a short time when they first came on air last summer they were doing just 1 SD channel+HD, and it looked quite a bit better during that time ..(more later on why they HAVE to have at least 1 SD subchannel up) ....

Anyhow --- I noticed that the compression artifacts during PBS HD have been especially bad the past couple weeks or so. I mentioned it earlier, either in this thread or Cincy thread. Lately, anytime just about anything moves it's a blur of compression artifacts -- Sometimes now it looks really odd as you see the colors sort of "breaking up" in the little blocks.(not the best way to describe it, but I can't think of anything better). My OTA ANALOG looks better than that when things, people or animals in the forest move or the whitewater runs/etc ....

This is going to get a little loong --- as it's a complicated issue to address -- hope I don't repeat too much that you already know but here goes ---Really, I don't care how many bits it takes as long as it looks AS good as it CAN look(100% of the time) if given everything possible(for 1080i), and as long as it "works" with my current receivers ...(meaning MPEG2 Video)

I think the SD subchannels are part of the problem -- however -- They've been doing it all along with the same number of services(supposed to be 2SD+1HD I think, but sometimes its 3SD+ 1HD), but it has gotten much worse in last couple of weeks or so.

As reported by DTV insider earlier in this thread -- They've been working out bugs and such lately, so maybe that's the reason for the change. Lets hope so anyway, as they could be allocating bandwidth beyond just the oppurtunistic sort to other stuff besides the SD/HD services(datacasting/etc) .HD/SE Encoders don't need to use ALL of the bandwidth all the time -- just usually in relatively short periods(which can crop up at any time) does 1080i HD need everything, hence much of the time there is oppurtunistic bandwidth available for other uses ..... Sending programming/etc. to schools for instance ....

They are saying that there are more advanced MPEGII HD encoders out there now(along with using Stat mux) that can give as good quality HD video at 13mb/s with 1080i as older encoders do at say, 17-18mb/s (there is 19.383 Mb/s total which they can use -- butsome of it has to go to Audio+PSIP. I'll believe it when I see it, and I haven't seen it yet. 720p seems to work just fine at 15mb/s or so, though. I don't know what encoder WKEF-DT is using with their SD subchannel, but I think it looks pretty good at 1080i for whatever reason. I can't say I can't tell the difference between them and WLWT-DT NBC Cincinnati(which gives HD everything)during bandwidth demainding programming, but it's nowhere near as drastic a difference as comparing WHIO-DT to WKRC-DT(now allocating HD everything -- Webhopper is gone), or among the PBS HD affiliates.

As for Cincinnati PBS -- WCET-DT in Dec 2002/Early Jan 03 Gave PBS HD everything -- It was just a single HD service at time -- and it was absolutely beautiful ... There was Nary a hint of Compression artifacts during the most bandwidth demanding source material, even if you press your nose right up to the screen. During those 2 months, they also ran the HD throughout their hours of operation (8am~11pm) -- That was before the Analog simulcast rule went into effect though .. They are required to simulcast 75% of their analog programming on the digital, so they have to have at least 1 SD subchannel, now. Anyhow ... In Spring 03, they began doing something similar to what WPTD-DT does -- 4 SD subchannels during the Day, 1080i HD + 2 SD subchannels in prime time. Compression artifacts are a problem with them -- BUT it does look better as I believe they are using Stat Mux(HD gets "priority bandwidth" it looks like when it needs it -- the SD services suffer at odd times though) ....

WCVN-DT KET Covington, KY, IMO has the best HD PQ from PBS HD currently. They also run 2SD services+ HD in prime time, 4~6 SD services the rest of the time -- However, they send HD at 720p, which works better with Multicasting -- Doesn't quite need as much as 1080i -- I had heard from one of their engineeers who posts on Cincy thread that they also do Stat Mux, although I'm not sure if they've added the HD to the Stat Mux yet -- You can't tell it if they did -- not saying it wouldn't look better at with no multicasting and at 1080i, and you do occasionally see the "little blocks"(We often call it "macroblocking", although that's not really quite "technically" correct) but for the most part nowadays, the vast majority of hd programming, even the demanding portions looks great, but just not quite as much detail as with 1080i.

Jeff
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Old 06-28-2004, 06:02 PM
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Have a couple of questions (though I'm not sure this is the right thread).

First, every once in awhile my HD video will "freeze" while the audio will continue. After 2 - 10 seconds, the video will 'jerk' (as though displaying pictures 3-4-3-4-3-4...) and then catch up with the audio. Is this most likely the transmitter, my STB or my TV? Doesn't seem dependent on station, but I haven't tracked it that close.

Second, I live in Fbn with a tower & VHF/UHF antenna (amplified - two receivers) pointed at Dayton antenna farm. Local stations boom in. Should I be able to pick up Cincy without rotating antenna?

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Old 06-29-2004, 05:31 AM
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WKEF-NBC and WRGT-FOX, both do this every so often.
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Old 06-30-2004, 02:23 PM
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hey guys, I am finally going to go up on the roof to "extract" my old unused antenna. I just wanted everyone here to know that if I fall this just might be my last post on these forums. Take a look at what I have to do, the roof is so steep and boy its a long way down. So hopefully it all goes well......
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Old 06-30-2004, 02:29 PM
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Good luck, but just in case: how long do you feel is an appropriate length of time before your wife starts dating, again?

Seriously, be careful.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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Old 06-30-2004, 02:33 PM
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Funny stuff. I can always count on you guys to "look out" for me.
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Old 07-01-2004, 05:17 AM
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Quote:


Second, I live in Fbn with a tower & VHF/UHF antenna (amplified - two receivers) pointed at Dayton antenna farm. Local stations boom in. Should I be able to pick up Cincy without rotating antenna?

Carl, I'm in Fairborn too. I think there's about a 20-30 degree spread between where I need to point for Cincy and where the Dayton towers are, but I get the Dayton stations fine off the side of the antenna if I point at Cincy. WRGT doesn't quite come in that way, but it works off the back of my second antenna which is pointed at Columbus.
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