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post #1 of 6613 Old 04-27-2002, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Anybody know the status of the stations other than WHIO? I didn't see any requests for extensions on the FCC site, although I talked to a tech for WDTN (ABC) in a Subway the other day, he thought they had received an extension.
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post #2 of 6613 Old 04-27-2002, 03:40 PM
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WDTN did indeed file for a CP extension in the last couple of weeks. WBDT has had a extension granted.

WRGT(Fox) has had a app filed with FCC for DTV operation on Channel 30 since late 1999, but have yet to be granted a Construction Permit. WPTD is PBS and therefore doesn't have to be on air until May 2003.

WRCX-LP 51 has had a STA to move and operate on Channel 40 since late January, and although they did go off air while WKEF-DT 51(NBC) broadcast the HD Olympics, they have been back on air on 51 since then.

Also, WRCX-LP was granted a Construction Permit to move to Channel 40 just last week. Hopefully, WKEF-DT 51 will be back on the air shortly.

Also, most Dayton folks should have good luck picking up the Cincinnati area DTV stations with the use of a outdoor antenna. I know of a fellow North of I-70 who pulls in most of the Cincy DTV's, and a fellow in Kettering who was able to pull them all in, most with 95~100 readings while using a roof mounted Radio Shack VU190, no preamp.

You can go to the below link to find the CP Extension filing information, WDTN and WBDT's exhibit's explaining their reason for needing more time are attached to their CP extension apps. Specify "Digital TV", "CP Extension", and "OH" for State to narrow down the search results.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs...d/app_sear.htm

I also find the following link handy for searching for station info:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html

Jeff
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post #3 of 6613 Old 09-19-2002, 12:33 PM
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I recently moved from the Cincinnati area to Centerville. Just when I finally got my old setup working well, I had had to start over. (All of my HD equipment stayed in a dedicated HT.) So anyway, I've been playing with several different antennas (getting ready for the Fall season) and I noticed WKEF 51-1 lost audio a few days ago, and over the last couple of days has been off all together.

I called WKEF/WRGT and talked to one of the engineers. He didn't know the transmitter was off. He told me its probably because they just significantly reduced their power on both stations. I told him I'm pulling WRGT at 100%, then he agreed to have someone check KEF.

When I asked why the power was reduced, he said that Sinclair corporate ordered them to cut power to reduce costs. He said, "they don't want to spend $7000 per month when they can spend $1000 on a station nobody is watching." What a bunch of sh*t! Sinclair just doesn't get it!



P.S. is anyone else in the dayton area? send me a message and maybe we can get a count....

Evan
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post #4 of 6613 Old 09-19-2002, 02:11 PM
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Sinclair. Sigh.

I'm located between Middletown and Germantown, 13 Miles from the Dayton towers. I'm having no problem with WRGT-DT, although I'm now getting 81~82 readings from the SNR meter on my digital receiver with my lo-gain antenna instead of the 92~94 I was getting before their power drop.

WKEF-DT though is a strange story, the audio came back about a week+ ago for me, then I lost them completely Saturday afternoon. Unless they are running at 10 watts or off an antenna on the ground instead of their tower, I should at least be able to get a digital sniff from them with my hi-gain antenna.

I also have a "non-digital" indication that WKEF-DT is still putting a strong signal into here -- but it seems to have a problem. It could be something on my end, although I never had a problem pulling in WKEF-DT, WRCX-LP which used to be on 51, or Dx'ing on 51, or for seeing "clean snow" on 51 when not receiving any station there.

I tried a little trick involving the AFT(automatc fine tuning) on an analog non-screen blanking TV that allows its analog tuner to "wander" up a little onto 51 when tuned to blank channel 50. This has the result of producing "big noisy digital snow" on 50 when WKEF-DT is on air -- I'm seeing the "big noisy digital snow" just as intensely as usual when WKEF-DT is on air, and I'm also getting a continuous 173 HZ(more or less) audio tone when the analog TV is tuned to 51. Normally, of course, all I would see or hear on 51 with an analog TV, whether or not WKEF-DT were on air would be nothing but snow. I've investigated about everything I can think of at my location that might cause interference with no luck ... Weird!

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post #5 of 6613 Old 09-19-2002, 03:04 PM
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KEF is still giving me a big zero on both receivers. (I've got a hughes E86 and an RCA F38310.)

Now it looks like WHIO-DT is off too. Hmmm.

Looks like Dayton's not ready for prime time. I guess I had better fine tune my VU-190 and get it pointed to 205 degrees!!!

Evan
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post #6 of 6613 Old 09-19-2002, 04:32 PM
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Yes, that's what I get too from KEF on my digital receiver(also a F38310), a big 0 since Saturday afternoon. I hope that when the engineering staff "checks" on it, they actually try a reception test.

WHIO-DT is up at 7pm, the last few days however they've been up and down ... It seems that they'll go off air occasionally for a few minutes(or hours sometimes), then come back up. They do seem to be reasonably good about passing CBS HD, although they had just SD for the game last Saturday. For that matter, overall WKEF-DT was good at passing though NBC HD when I could see them(nice too when I could hear them), but WRGT-DT has never done anything but 4x3 SD that I have seen. The analog actually looks better, and unfortuently the situation with Fox Cincy(WXIX) Isn't much better.

Hopefully, that 205 heading will work well for you .. It should with a outdoor antenna unless you're in a low spot with really bad terrain/building blockage in that direction. A preamp might help you out as well, although the Dayton stations might cause some preamp overload problems for you. "Down that way" is a 188 degree heading for me, With preamp and a VU210 35 feet above ground(although I'm down in a small steep valley) I get all 5 Cincy/N.ky DTV stations currently on air with no dropouts here (33~38 miles), with readings of 70~88. I'm probably about on the edge for the KET/PBS station in N KY though, although if you're in Centerville, you can't be too much farther "crow fly" wise from Cincy than I am.

Good luck!

Jeff
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post #7 of 6613 Old 09-19-2002, 06:45 PM
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The guy at KEF asked me to call back tomorrow if they don't come back up, so we'll see. He also said the audio problem was due to an equipment failure. They had to order a replacement card from Canada, and there was a delay in customs. It sounds like they have had several equipment "problems." He said they lost the ability to upconvert their signal locally, so now all they can do is pass the network feed directly to the transmitter.

The 205 heading works great. I can pull WKRC-DT, WXIX-DT, WLWT-DT, and WCPO-DT all with a signal greater than 50 with my VU190 mounted in the attic. All of the cincy stations are between 204-207 degrees from me. I can't get WCET-DT at all, but it was weak when I lived in Mason. I'm tempted to try a channelmaster 4228. The narrow beamwidth shouldn't hurt me, but I might have problems with WCPO-DT on VHF. The radioshack double bowtie doesn't do any better than the VU190's yagi.

My biggest problem is splitting the signal to the two different receivers. I had (2) 1Ghz-4db gain splitters in line, and each lowered my signal strength by 20 points or so. I tried a preamp, but it made things worse. I need to try it without the spiltters in line to see what it does.

The fun continues! (I guess I'll go watch CSI...)

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post #8 of 6613 Old 09-20-2002, 07:50 AM
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At 10:00am, it looks like WKEF-DT is fixed. I'm seeing(and hearing them) on 51-1+2, with readings from my receiver via my lo-gain Dayton antenna(CM3010) of 70~76. No longer hearing the audio tone on channel 51 with the analog TV. My readings from WKEF-DT before the power decrease were 87~88 with the CM3010.

BUT, I'm now getting a big fat 0 on WRGT-DT 30! And, I'm now hearing the audio tone that was on 51 now on channel 30! I'm also not seeing "big noisy digital snow" with the analog TV on 30, something I do get from WKRC-DT 31 if WRGT-DT were "really" off the air. Can't check the digital snow on 29 since WXIX-DT transmits there. If there is a signal on the frequency the NTSC tuner can't "wonder up" to the edges of the channel above it to see an indication of a digital signal in the form of "big noisy digital snow".

I wonder if they have swapped some piece of evidently "bad" equipment from WKEF-DT to WRGT-DT?

Since the power decrease, although my readings for WRGT-DT(when I could see them) and WKEF-DT have decreased with my lo-gain antenna, when using the high gain VU-210 which is also mounted higher, there is no change in the readings from the signal to noise ratio meter on my receiver for either station.

Evan, I've PM'ed you with some "antenna stuff" that might help you out. Also, that PBS station you are talking about that's on air is WCVN-DT, KET/PBS, Covington, KY -- According to their website it looks like they are planning on having PBS HD by November. Spoke with WCET-DT as well as Dayton's Think TV people recently, and they plan to have their stations on the air (all with PBS HD) "on or around" May 1,2003. WCET-DT's antenna is going to be on WLWT-DT's tower, So you should have a good shot at it too. WLWT/WCET have had their analogs at Low power since June, while they are working on the tower to support permanant WCET-DT/WLWT-DT antennas. WLWT-DT's current antenna is a temporary side mount job, the new one is going to be higher, and should improve reception.

Jeff
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post #9 of 6613 Old 09-20-2002, 09:21 AM
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From Mike DeWeese at WDTN:

The digital transmitter and antenna have been installed.

Their engineers are performing tests on the new equipment this week.

We are waiting on some equipment to enhance the ABC signal before going on air.

We should be transmitting around November 1, 2002.

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post #10 of 6613 Old 09-20-2002, 09:25 AM
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I guess the folks at WDTN must have seen me in the garage last night assembling my new CM3671 so I can pick up WCPO all the time. God knows how I'm going to hoist that big monster up on the roof.

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post #11 of 6613 Old 09-20-2002, 10:24 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Paul210
I guess the folks at WDTN must have seen me in the garage last night assembling my new CM3671 so I can pick up WCPO all the time.

LOL

Paul,

Thanks for the WDTN info.

A rope should work to pull up the antenna, just be careful it doesn't bang into anything on the way up ... doing the job when it's not windy is also a good idea. Keep in mind, it seems to defy the laws of nature, but in practice those antennas do get heavier the higher up you are.

Jeff
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post #12 of 6613 Old 09-20-2002, 09:26 PM
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Hey guys,

Just wanted to let you know that there is someone else in the area. About 6 months ago I was on the board a lot doing research but in the end decided to wait for the new sets with dvi. My wait finally ended on wednesday when my sony 51ws500 was delivered, I was like a little kid on christmas. I am using a borrowed DTC-100 until the next generation stbs are out. I have two unamplified antennas, a VU-190 on the roof pointed at cincy and a RS double bowtie for dayton. I am able to receive all 5 cincy digital channels (most in the 75-85% range, except pbs24 that is at 35-65% so it is watchable sometimes) and the RS double bowtie works great (85-90%) for dayton, although they have been on and off since i first set up my antennas and the DTC-100 two weeks ago.

I am really looking forward to the Florida/Tennesse HD game tomorrow. I have a screenshot of the florida/miami that someone posted here and can't wait to see some football with that kind of PQ in my living room.

I knew that Nitewatchman was here since he helped me quite a bit 6 months ago, but I am glad to see that there are others even located even closer on the board.

Justin
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post #13 of 6613 Old 09-21-2002, 11:10 AM
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Justin,
Congrats on the new toy. I'm just wondering being south of town how well you receive WCPO. I just put up a monster Channel Master UHF/VHF antenna with hopes I could pick it up more than just late at night. No luck, though. I'm north of Dayton, just south of I70, and pretty high up. I thought it would be a piece of cake considering our elevation up here and CM's best antenna that I chimney-mounted about 10 feet above the house. I can't wait for WDTN to go live so I'll have an ABC affiliate I can receive all the time.
Paul

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post #14 of 6613 Old 09-21-2002, 12:16 PM
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Paul, just wondering, if you can easily point that thing towards Columbus, can you pick up a good signal from WBNS 10?

Hopefully, your antenna would reject its signal enough off the side lobe, but I know interference from them has been an issue for some folks that are roughly between Cincy and Columbus. Here, I can usually point my hi-gain antenna towards Columbus and get enough of a signal from WBNS to get an analog lock, and often a analog pic, yet it's very, very rare that it causes problems for my WCPO-DT reception if I have antenna headed South towards WCPO.

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post #15 of 6613 Old 09-21-2002, 01:45 PM
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Jeff,

I can't receive 10 or 4 in Columbus except occasionally at night, and only when I aim the antenna directly at Columbus. I'm wondering if the lack of WCPO reception has something to do with the way VHS signals travel vs. UHF. I don't have a problem with any other Cincinnati stations, but they're all UHF. It's kinda funny that I get a stronger signal from WCPO when I can receive it than from any other Cinci station, but it fades during the day. Signals from all other stations are rock-solid and never fluctuate at all.

Paul

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post #16 of 6613 Old 09-21-2002, 03:01 PM
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Paul,

That's very odd. That's the sort of situation one might expect if using a UHF only antenna to pick up VHF signals from out beyond a few miles. I'm pretty much at a loss to guess what is happening in your situation. The CM3671 should work very, very well for VHF and UHF signals within 50-60 miles or so from you, possibly more for VHF. Even though WLWT 5 is currently operating at low power while they work on their antenna, WCPO 9, WCPO-DT and WKRC 12 Cincy should be blasting in there 24 hours a day.

Back when I went to WSU many years ago, I used rabbit ears in an apartment from near I-675 on 444/broad street in Fairborn, and through brick walls could pick up 5/9/12 Cincy (although not all that great) as well as 4 Columbus, but I couldn't get a hint of the Cincy UHF signals.

My guess is that maybe there is something you have happening with your setup that is blocking signals at VHF frequencies. Can't really think of what it could be though. Are you using a preamp, if so, what is the manufactruer's model#, and do you have something else in between your antenna and receiver besides the matching transformer(balun), splitters and coax?

VHF Signals generally travel a little farther than UHF becuase the wavelengths are longer they can bend more easily around hills, and the curvature of the earth. Especially so with the Lo-band VHF channels 2-6. WCPO-DT's coverage map indicates their signal should be receivable from almost as far North as Troy. You can see the map on their website, at a link off the equipment page here:

http://www.wcpodt.com/equipment.html#

Jeff
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post #17 of 6613 Old 09-21-2002, 03:15 PM
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Also, Paul, what do the Analog VHF stations in the area look like? Do you see a lot of noise on those channels? Impulse noise interference is generally more of an issue with VHF than UHF, perhaps there is some man made noise that's happening during the day close by in your area that is gone at night.

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post #18 of 6613 Old 09-21-2002, 08:04 PM
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Jeff,

Thanks for all your insight and suggestions.

My setup on the antenna is pretty standard. Regular RG6 coax into one splitter, then into the STB-only about a 25' run. I took the splitter out of the equation just to see if signal increased but it didn't. The install is a standard chimney mount with a new CM rotator, two 5' sections of mast, single story ranch, good elevation in this plat. The only thing I'm not really happy with on the antenna setup is the ground. The mast is painted so I think I need to drill into it and screw down the ground wire just to be sure it's really making a good electrical connection.

My analog reception seems pretty interference free. No video noise. And the analog channel 9 is my strongest station from Cinci. Usually it rivals the locals. 5, 12 and 19 have some snow on the analogs but the digital versions come in just fine. Some nights I can pick up analog WAVE (channel 3) out of Louisville on a little 19" set in the bedroom.

I'm not using an amp. I tried one a couple weeks ago and didn't have good results. Although it really boosted the signal strength, it killed all the distant channels so I took it back.

Paul

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post #19 of 6613 Old 09-21-2002, 09:09 PM
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Sorry for the length of these, Paul, it's amazing how long something can get with this kind of stuff.

Boy, that's a bummer you can't pull in WCPO-DT consistantly. It certianly sounds like your VHF reception is working very well. Since you are so close to Dayton Towers and probably have to point right through them from your location to aim at Cincy, just about any preamp would probably cause more problems interference wise than it solves gain wise, because Dayton analogs 2,7,16,26,45 are probably causing intermod and overloading the amp which is probably scattering noise and everything else onto channels which should be clean.

There are "usually fairly expensive" ways of trapping out those strong signals so you can get good results with a preamp(although you wouldn't be able to see them then with the specific antenna being used), but it's probably not worth all the fuss, especially since in the future we don't really know yet which channels the local DTV's will end up using.

The only other thing I could guess of besides poor signal strength(which certianly seems to be the problem you're having with WCPO-DT) would be that you are getting some sort of weird interference to 10 -- or even though you can't see or hear it, WBNS signal may be raising the noise level enough most of the time to prevent good reception of WCPO-DT.

I can't imagine that it would be possible to get overload at the tuner from a Dayton local that would "scatter" it's signal onto 10, since the closest frequency used would be ch. 7. Since your getting good reception from 9, this certianly shouldn't be an issue. Luckily, tuner overload onto 1st adjacent channels to Dayton 2,7,16,26,45(12-13 Miles) and WKOI 43 (TBN) Richmond, IN(12 Miles - tower is actually between Trenton and Oxford, OH) is my only real issue here, and it only happens when I have the antenna headed near those stations. For 2,7,16+22, it actually happens to some extent without a preamp, but the preamp makes it worse. This isn't a problem though, as from my location, the preamp does happen to do more good than harm.

Harmonics, or Spurious transmission from a very close by high power FM transmitter shouldn't be an issue either as the 1st harmonic of an FM transmitter that would affect Ch 10 would have to be on 96~98.5 MHZ, and there aren't any on those frequencies in Dayton. 99.1 could really affect only Channel 11, and you would have to be awfully close to their tower, with a very high gain setup.

I'm sure you've thought of this, but if that 19" TV is of the non-screen blanking type, tuning it to 10 and seeing if there is anything there besides normal, clean snow+ "white" noise audio can give you an indication of interference present.

BTW, along with 4+6 Columbus(76 Miles), I get WAVE here all the time to some extent(1/2 the time or so it's watchable, but the audio is fine 99% of the time) if antenna is headed correctly, at 95 Miles out, I'm not actually that far away from the edge of WAVE's predicted coverage area, which reaches out 72 miles "curvature of earth" wise because they have an extremely tall tower that is about 500 feet higher elevation wise than most of the stations in this area. Also, thier low VHF frequency lets it "bend" around the earth farther.

Once WDTN gets on the air(fingers crossed for Nov 1), I hope it doesn't take too long for them to pass all the ABC HD!

Jeff
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post #20 of 6613 Old 09-22-2002, 07:03 AM
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Jeff,

Thanks again for all your input. We probably should have PM'd instead of doing this here. What was the topic of this thread? !

Yes, let's hope WDTN gets it together.

Paul

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post #21 of 6613 Old 09-22-2002, 08:08 AM
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Paul,

I just checked the signal meter on the dtc100 and got this:

10-73
24-88 (Strange - I have never seen anything over 65 on this before)
29-82
31-89
35-63 (Lower than usual)

From some info Jeff gave me a while back I am at 926ft ASL. I don't know 1/10th as much as Jeff on receiving air waves with an antenna but I do have one suggestion based on my brief experience. If it is not hard to do, move the antenna around. When I started I had my antenna mounted on an old mast on the side of the house up maybe 10ft above the roofline and maybe 30 ft from some large pine trees pointed at cincy. I got only flickers on the cincy channels 0%-35% but I got all of the dayton locals at 90% with it pointed at cincy. I lowered it to only 5 feet off of the roofline so that I could start playing with preamps and tweaking its direction easily and I noticed that after I lowered it my signals began to get more reliable. I know that lowering the antenna should not help performance but it did. So I decided to mess around with its position some more. I built a temporary mount out of some wood so that it was mobile. I next moved it to the middle of my roof (another 30ft away from the trees) and all of the cincy digitals went from almost nothing to strong watchable signals. But now the daytons were all very low and unwatchable (an inconvenience that I now need 2 antennas but I figure a small price to pay for getting all of the cincy channels). Unfortunately, the wife was not happy with the antenna growing right out of the middle of our roof so I decied next try the backside of the roof. The signal didn't go down at all - if anything it got a little better. So for now the antenna is in the middle of the backside of the roof on its temporary mount, invisible from the front side of the house. The wife is happy and of course so am I. I will probably move it around some more when I get time before I mount it permanently. So sometimes with this stuff it sort of seems like black art. I hope you have luck with whatever you try next and hopefully they will get WDTV up soon.

By the way, everyone was drooling over the Florida/Tennessee game yesterday. It made it painful going back and forth to the OSU/Cinci game. I noticed the feed from 41 out of dayton seemed much less pixilated than the 31 out of cincy feed. On 31 all of white Tennessee jerseys we pixilated horribly while i didn't notice it on 41 at all. Anyone else have a similar experience?

Justin
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post #22 of 6613 Old 09-22-2002, 08:55 AM
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Justin,

Sounds like you are enjoying your new setup

You're probably seeing the 88 reading on 24 this morning because of enhanced atmospheric conditions(Tropo). I'm seeing Lexington, Ky stations(108 Miles) last night and this morning, but they started fading at 11:30am. The reduced numbers on 35 you're getting are probably because of the same, due to WLIO 35 Lima, Ohio, or possibly a KET that transmits on 35 from Hazard, KY adding additional "noise" to 35 via "atmospheric bounce".

WHIO-DT was certianly the station to watch for the game yesterday, WKRC-DT was having all sorts of problems.

Jeff
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post #23 of 6613 Old 09-23-2002, 07:01 AM
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Jeff,

Thanks for the PM. I was out of town over the weekend, so I just saw it this morning. I'm going to try and mess with this stuff again this week. I gotta squeeze every db possible out of this setup!

Justin,

It's good to hear you are seeing 24 at 88. I just checked, and I'm only getting 0-6 on my hughes E86. I think I'm going to try moving my antenna around to see if it helps. (not an easy task with a VU190 wedged through attic rafters!) I've noticed the same thing you have. If I move my RS-DoubleBowTie around I get wildly different readings.

Are you combining the signals from your two antennas? Or do you have then in different antenna inputs?

Evan
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post #24 of 6613 Old 09-23-2002, 03:24 PM
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I am not combining the signal, the dtc100 has 2 antenna inputs, I have experimented with combining them into one input without much luck. this will be a big issue for me as soon as I get my own stb - all of the new generation stbs only have a single antenna in. I will probably end up getting a remote control a/b switch to deal with this.

My signal on 24 is back around 30% where it usually is, at night it will usually go a bit higher and is watchable, but nowhere near 88%.

I noticed some some strange behavior during the browns game yesterday on both digital cbs channels. Cinci 31 would stay pegged at 88% without variation but I was getting audio dropouts. Dayton 41 was 79-84% but every few minutes it will go down to almost zero causing a dropout. All of the other channels both cinci and dayton were fine. Today it seems like the audio dropouts on 31 were gone and but the strange behavior on 41 continues. Wierd since I watched the whole Tennesee/Florida game on 41 without a single problem on saturday. Could the tropo be causing this?

Thanks, Justin
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post #25 of 6613 Old 09-23-2002, 04:50 PM
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Justin,

I think 31 was having a problem with its datastream on Sat&Sun, the radar on 31-2 was fine, and signal was solid as normal. I often notice the signal disappear completely on 41 on occasion, sometimes for seconds, sometimes for minutes and sometimes for hours. Not positive, but I'm Pretty sure the problem is originating at the station.

It'll be very, very rare(if ever) for tropo(Other stations on the same channel from a long distance) to affect strong signals like WKRC-DT and WHIO-DT to any great extent in your location, especially to the point of causing dropouts. Digital receivers see analog stations as just noise, and unless those signals are very strong(which tropo signals usually aren't, especially if your antenna isn't pointed right at them), your receiver can easily see your local station through that noise, although your readings may drop a bit from normal occasinally due to "noise" from long distance stations.

Also, A/B switch and seperate feedlines is probably going to be your best bet w/o 2 inputs, don't think you'd have very good luck combining the 2 antennas for Dayton/Cincy reception.

Jeff
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post #26 of 6613 Old 09-24-2002, 12:48 PM
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Is anyone seeing WRGT-DT? I'm still getting the same thing from them as I was from WKEF-DT last week. Nothing from the Digital receiver, With a analog tuner/receiver, still hearing the strange audio tone on 30 that was on 51 until it was fixed.

Also, with the intention of a short explanation, I don't know if I really said that quite right in the above post concerning interference to local stations from distant stations on the same channel via tropo.(i.e., skip/atmospheric bounce.)

It certianly is possible for tropo to affect local stations to the point of causing dropouts, I've even seen it happen on 10 and 24(but very, very rarely), but not on 31 or 41 because they are so strong here. Although a 41 in Louisville often puts some sort of signal into here when skip is happening, which I thought might be a occasional problem for WHIO-DT, but I haven't seen it be a problem. It will be interesting to see what happens when WBDT-DT 18 gets on the air, as I often see a very strong signal from an 18 in Lexington, KY.

Tropo interference most likely won't cause a rapid flucuation in readings however, from what I've experienced, if interference from a distant station is a cause, I think you'll see lower readings than normal for usually a fairly extended period of time, along with, more rarely, dropouts. Other sources of interference can cause rapidly fluctuating readings and dropouts however, especially if you aren't getting a strong signal from the local station.

Also, keep in mind, AFAIK concerning any receiver out there at this time, the meters and indicators on our recievers don't indicate actual signal strength, even if they are saying that they are. They are giving us an indication of the signal to noise ratio, data errors, and the ability of the receiver to correct for multipath conditions.

Personally, I've never seen multipath be any sort of issue for digital reception from my location, even with antenna way off target to an extent which produces severe multipath(ghosting) on a station's analog counterpart. Even when the antenna is moving, or a plane flies through the signal path and produces ghosting on a digital's analog counterpart(on same tower), I've never seen a problem with multipath for DTV reception.

How far you can point your antenna off target from a local station and still receive a signal can be an indication of actual signal strentgth however, and is the only way I know of to have a chance of seeing how strong a signal actually is with our current crop of DTV receivers.

From what I understand, our receivers only require about 16DB of signal over noise for good reception of DTV signals. If the actual signal strength is at or just over that threshold, it can still produce high readings on our receivers just as a stronger signal would, but, it is also more susectable to interference(an increased noise level) than a real, stronger signal would be.

Hope this helps, getting enough Signal over Noise is a very, very big part of reliable OTA DTV reception.

Jeff
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post #27 of 6613 Old 09-24-2002, 05:41 PM
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Jeff,

I have not seen anything on WGRT-DT in at lest a few days. After I posted last I found out in the cinci thread that everyone was having audio problems on 31 over the weekend as well - this appears to be fixed today or at least substantially better. I think that my problems an 41 are over for now as well with a little bit of antenna adjustment. I watched CSI on 41 last night without any problems. CSI was beautiful, I finally got the jaw drop reaction from my wife

Justin
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post #28 of 6613 Old 09-24-2002, 06:00 PM
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Really wish I had a pic of some of the jaw drop reactions I've seen, I really get a kick out of that

Noticed that 35 Cincy had NBC HD at 8, 51 Dayton didn't at 8, and at 8:30, 35 looked like they were having problems with the HD feed+dropped it switched to SD(right at the "available in HD part), but at 8:30 51 now has HD ... Solid blocks of HD from the "big 3" networks tonight, I could be wrong, but I can't recall that happening since perhaps the Olympics

Jeff
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post #29 of 6613 Old 09-25-2002, 06:10 AM
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Jeff,

It looks like WRGT-DT is off of the air. Maybe Sinclair is further reducing power by only driving 1 transmitter at a time~!

All of this prime time programing is great, but it's a hard adjustment for my wife. She is a time shifting addict! At least once a week, she asks me, "can't Tivo record this?" Looks like I need to start working on a HD-PVR!

She's also moving quickly past jaw dropping, on to becoming a critic. She made me switch over to SD last night during NYPD-Blue. We were getting a lot of video noise on WCPO-DT. Why does this stuff only happen during prime time....

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post #30 of 6613 Old 09-25-2002, 09:07 AM
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I can tell by the audio tone I'm hearing on 30 with an analog TV that they are most likely putting a signal out(the tone switched from 51 to 30 last friday when WKEF-DT majically "appeared".), It's just that our digital receivers can't see it at all. It seems to me that they should find some way to monitor their digital signal.

I did call WKEF/WRGT once during Olympics when WKEF-DT had SD when NBC changed the Schedule(WLWT-DT had HD) though, got the newsroom who wouldn't transfer me to engineering(said they weren't there), so we ended up having a very long+confusing conversation about HD feeds and such. To their credit though, within a few minutes, there was HD on WKEF-DT.

Jeff
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