Des Moines, IA - HDTV - Page 145 - AVS Forum
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post #4321 of 4329 Old 12-14-2014, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tanglecord View Post
Three and half years later you get your wish! Just saw a promo saying The Jeffersons is supposed to begin airing on Antenna TV in January (2015). Other series coming to that network in 2015 (according to internet scuttlebutt) include Newhart, Mork & Mindy, One Day at a Time, Family Ties, Evening Shade, Leave it to Beaver, Doogie Howser, MD, Mr. Belvedere, Dear John, and Small Wonder.
I think we are fortunate to have such a fine variety of OTA networks in DSM, especially MeTV, Antenna TV, This TV, CW and the big 4 networks, ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX. I'm looking forward to The Jeffersons coming back on the air again, and altho I did not appreciate it in the first run, I really want to check out Newhart (his second series) when it returns, also think I might enjoy seeing One Day at a Time once thru just because it's been so long. Some other classics that have been lurking on hallmark and other obscure cable networks need to get cycled into OTA TV, such as Alice and Little House on the Prairie.

I think ABC 5.1 should get sold off to Pax/Ion 39.1 so they can step up coverage to the whole DSM metro area and not just the east side of town. Another poster mentioned how 2.1 from Cedar Rapids can have such a wide coverage area, why can't WOI 5.1 crank out some more power and do the same? If that is not possible, perhaps its time to introduce a new transmitter frequency for WOI, without taking one away from another network like CW 23, but introducing a whole new channel.
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post #4322 of 4329 Old 12-15-2014, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mofford View Post

I think ABC 5.1 should get sold off to Pax/Ion 39.1 so they can step up coverage to the whole DSM metro area and not just the east side of town. Another poster mentioned how 2.1 from Cedar Rapids can have such a wide coverage area, why can't WOI 5.1 crank out some more power and do the same? If that is not possible, perhaps its time to introduce a new transmitter frequency for WOI, without taking one away from another network like CW 23, but introducing a whole new channel.
In case you missed it, Nexstar, the new owners of channel 5 have applied to buy KCWI 23. If that goes through, I could see WOI and ABC programming moving to 23.1 in HD, KCWI to 23.2 in SD, then on 5, KCWI on 5.1 in HD and perhaps WOI on 5.2 in SD, or other sub-nets.

Doubt seriously than WOI will ever get a totally new replacement channel for RF 5. Maybe the FCC will have it in their hearts to give the VHF's in DM more power, especially channel 5. What concerns me is that Nexstar might offer channel 23 as auction bait in the upcoming TV repack. If that happens, they'll cram everything onto channel 5. At this point, it's just my speculation

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post #4323 of 4329 Old 12-16-2014, 09:21 PM
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Well, I hope Nextar's application to buy 23 is denied. I like the CW network and enjoy watching movies in HD, they have the best morning program on the air, Jason Parkin and crew have worked hard making "Great Day" a fun to watch morning show that oozes with local flavor. That station will get hurt bad without HD, and WOI will still be the same steamy pile of crap they are now, just like the parent network, ABC. If this deal goes thru it will be a real slap down for OTA TV in Des Moines, I hope they shoot this deal down and make WOI work with what they've got or give them license for a new station frequency/transmitter.

Yeah, we really need WOI to get the better HD transmitter so they can run some more informercial crap while KCWI works it's ass off entertaining the public with good news, sit coms and movie programming. WOI should become KCWI's subchannel bitch and get knocked down to standard if that's the way it has to go to get more range out of WOI.
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post #4324 of 4329 Old 12-17-2014, 09:36 AM
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I can't think of the least time I watched either channel, but I get what you're saying
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post #4325 of 4329 Old 12-17-2014, 03:48 PM
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you do know that stations can run 2 HD signals on the same RF frequency?
So there is no reason why they couldnt put CW as a 720p subchannel
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post #4326 of 4329 Old 12-17-2014, 07:10 PM
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you do know that stations can run 2 HD signals on the same RF frequency?
So there is no reason why they couldnt put CW as a 720p subchannel
Well, that's why I come to this forum, to get some good info like you posted here. I was under the impression that a sub channel had to be standard 4:3 because that's the way ALL the sub channels are in our local area. There must be a reason for that, is it more expensive to upgrade the equipment for that ? For example we have 2 sub channels that show movies, 17.2 and 19.1, both would look great in wide screen HD but are broadcast in standard. Thus, why would I not expect KCWI to get clipped down if it became a sub channel of WOI ?
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post #4327 of 4329 Old 12-17-2014, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mofford View Post
Well, that's why I come to this forum, to get some good info like you posted here. I was under the impression that a sub channel had to be standard 4:3 because that's the way ALL the sub channels are in our local area. There must be a reason for that, is it more expensive to upgrade the equipment for that ? For example we have 2 sub channels that show movies, 17.2 and 19.1, both would look great in wide screen HD but are broadcast in standard. Thus, why would I not expect KCWI to get clipped down if it became a sub channel of WOI ?
The subchannels like Me, This, Antenna, Movies, bounce, etc are only broadcast in 480i to begin with. That is from the master feed. So that is why they are in SD. Now some markets make it 480i widescreen. Minneapolis does that with Me, This and Antenna. The reason being so they can show commercials in "HD" for ABC and the co-owned Independent station. (all 3 are subchannels on the independent)

When you are dealing with a network like CW, My, or the Big 4 they can put it as HD or SD. In smaller markets where there wasnt a full slate of networks pre-digital now they can add those, and in most cases it is in HD. A few examples
Ottumwa, IA the ABC in Kirksville added CBS in HD. Conversely the CBS in Quincy, IL added ABC (both owned by same companies)
In Montana all the ABC stations in the state have Fox as a 720p subchannel. In almost all the markets the CBS has CW in HD too
In Sherman, TX/Ada OK area they run all 4 nets in HD off 2 stations. KXII has CBS -1, My (SD)-2 and Fox HD -3, KTEN has NBC -1, CW (SD)-2 and ABC -3

Using my market of Minneapolis, our Fox and My afffiliates are owned by Fox. Fox is on RF9 and My is on RF29. Ever since the DTV transition folks have had issues with Fox 9 as its on VHF. So for the longest time there was a SD version on RF29. Recently they changed it over so on RF29 is FOX and My in HD (there is another version of Fox HD on RF9)

Also due to the FCC crackdowns on companies owning/running 2 stations in smaller markets the owner gets crafty. In Western North Dakota FOX is a HD subchannel on NBC. In Fargo they recently moved CBS to a subchannel of the NBC.

I don't see if they decide to make it a subchannel why it wouldnt be in HD
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Last edited by unclehonkey; 12-17-2014 at 08:33 PM.
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post #4328 of 4329 Old Today, 04:55 PM
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Good info from unclehonkey on what other markets are doing with sub channels in full HD. I hope he is right about 23 being a full HD subchannel of WOI, if that happens. The problem I see is the expense for the parent/main to upgrade equipment that will allow HD expansion to sub channels.

What makes me a bit skeptical is how our local stations are doing things now. For example, KCCI is broadcasting a special on METV tonight about Tom Harkin, not in wide screen HD but squished widescreen in 4:3, which I must manually select Full mode on my TV to sweep it out to proper aspect ratio, and it is not in HD but 480i.

WHO TV has a good weather channel, 13.2 in SD with the same deal, a squished widescreen into 4'3 format. Why would they not broadcast in wide format, even if it is not in HD, and why not step it up to HD too ? Is it because the costs to upgrade to this capability is prohibitive for stations in our market ? Remember with this WOI / KCWI deal, we are talking about WOI here, the Po' Boy of the big 4 in DSM. if WOI had to spend more than 200 bucks on any upgrades, I'm not sure they could swing it, lol.

Also, if it's not all that expensive to upgrade these subchannels, then why has PaxIon 39.1 been stuck there in the low power zone all this time, and not picked up by some other network as a subchannel, like after RTV tanked on 5.2, why did WOI not pick it up as 5.2. Or perhaps 23 pick it up as 23.2. We can see stations can be affiliated with each other without changing channel numbers, such as 23.1 and 19.1, why won't someone pick up PaxIon, do they have cooties or something?

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post #4329 of 4329 Old Today, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mofford View Post
Good info from unclehonkey on what other markets are doing with sub channels in full HD. I hope he is right about 23 being a full HD subchannel of WOI, if that happens. The problem I see is the expense for the parent/main to upgrade equipment that will allow HD expansion to sub channels.
The thing with Nexstar is they arent "subchannel friendly" as in they usually don't put subchannels on unless they have to. Most Nexstar stations with subchannels were there before Nextar bought them

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WHO TV has a good weather channel, 13.2 in SD with the same deal, a squished widescreen into 4'3 format. Why would they not broadcast in wide format, even if it is not in HD, and why not step it up to HD too ? Is it because the costs to upgrade to this capability is prohibitive for stations in our market ?
The thing is there is only so much bandwidth per RF station to go across the various subchannels. HD takes more bandwidth than SD and usually weather type channels are just "there"....they can be put on with minimal bandwidth used. While that is usually good if they have other programming on it that can cause issues. Again in Minneapolis we have Weather Nation on the NBC subchannel. During high school football season they have "prep sports extra" on Friday's on that station. Watching it OTA is miserable. Think blowing up a youtube video that has fast motion. It looks REAL bad. But thats only like 10 Fridays a year so folks deal with it (cable has a direct feed of the station so it looks much better)


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Also, if it's not all that expensive to upgrade these subchannels, then why has PaxIon 39.1 been stuck there in the low power zone all this time, and not picked up by some other network as a subchannel, like after RTV tanked on 5.2, why did WOI not pick it up as 5.2. Or perhaps 23 pick it up as 23.2. We can see stations can be affiliated with each other without changing channel numbers, such as 23.1 and 19.1, why won't someone pick up PaxIon, do they have cooties or something?
couple notes
Most Ion stations are owned by Ion themselves (as in this case). So its not like another station can say "oh we want the Ion affiliation". As to why they cant upgrade only thing I can see is CBS in Sioux City uses the same RF station (39). So maybe that is why they can't due to possible short spacing. I honestly dont know. I know the Ion in Minneapolis is at 1 million watts (full power)
Subchannel agreements are usually signed by the parent company to go across the board (across the country on their stations). Great example is Sinclair with GetTV and soon Grit.
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