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post #3061 of 4345 Old 10-16-2007, 09:11 PM
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Thanks Jerry,
That's exactly the info I was looking for. It look like KENS will have a jump on the other stations being in the vhf range as the lower frequency should penetrate buildings better than the uhf ones do.
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post #3062 of 4345 Old 10-17-2007, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realthogue View Post

KABB 30 same uhf 30
KWEX 39 uhf 41
KENS 55 uhf 39
KLRN 8 vhf 9
KSAT 48 uhf drops to vhf 12
WOAI 58 uhf 48

If I read this correctly/literally I will stop receiving ABC when the switch is made. Somebody tell me I'm wrong. I didn't go thru 4 UHF antennas just to see all go by by in 2009.
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post #3063 of 4345 Old 10-17-2007, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenDB View Post

If I read this correctly/literally I will stop receiving ABC when the switch is made. Somebody tell me I'm wrong. I didn't go thru 4 UHF antennas just to see all go by by in 2009.

I now believe these changes have been confirmed (Thanks Realthogue & Petegon). Time for you to start looking at VHF anttennas
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post #3064 of 4345 Old 10-17-2007, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobplittleman View Post

HI all,
First post, I'm a newbe but have been in the electronics industry for over 30
years but am confused when I look at the antenna suggestions on antennaWeb.

This is what I see on AntennaWeb after giving my street address in universal city.
DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live Date Compass Orientation Miles From Frequenc Assignment
* yellow - uhf KABB-DT 29.1 FOX SAN ANTONIO TX 168° 18.4 30
* yellow - uhf KSAT-DT 12.1 ABC SAN ANTONIO TX 166° 19.9 48
* yellow - uhf KWEX-DT 41.1 UNI SAN ANTONIO TX 165° 18.3 39
* yellow - uhf KVDA-DT 38.1 TEL SAN ANTONIO TX 165° 18.3 38
* yellow - uhf WOAI-DT 4.1 NBC SAN ANTONIO TX 167° 19.9 58
* green - vhf KLRN-DT 9.1 PBS SAN ANTONIO TX 185° 16.1 8
* red - uhf KHCE-DT 16.1 TBN SAN ANTONIO TX 165° 18.6 16
* red - vhf KCWX-DT 2.1 CW FREDERICKSBURG TX 01-09 330° 44.1 5
* red - uhf KENS-DT 5.1 CBS SAN ANTONIO TX 167° 19.9 55
* violet - uhf KMYS-DT 35.1 MNT KERRVILLE TX 270° 35.5 32

ABC, NBC and FOX are all about 19 miles away and the antenna suggestion is "yellow", a small multi-directional unit.

CBS looks to share the same antenna location with ABC and NBC (all are 19.9 miles away at 166/167 degrees) but the recommendation for CBS is red, medium directional unit which is 3 steps up
from the Yellow?
What am I missing? I'm assuming that the stations are transmitting at the same power and they appear to be at the same location.

Anybody have any ideas why the "red" recommendation for CBS but "yellow'
antenna for the rest?

Just about the only tv we watch is on CBS and I would like to break the TW
connection. I don't want to put up a lot more antenna than I need to get the job done but also don't want to buy one that is not up to getting CBS.

I'm interested in the digital HDTV signal only, we don't watch any Std Def tv anymore so analog is not a concern.

Second question:
Is the channel mapping for SA finalized yet? From what I've read, I think
that only PBS may still be on a VHF with everything else on UHF.

Thanks in advance.

I am above you in New Braunfels (approx 30 miles from towers) and was surprised to pick up all stations steadily with a small loop/rabbit ears antenna (except PBS which is at a lower power for now). I suggest you stop by RadioShack and pick it up for 12 bucks and see what you think ABC will change to VHF #12, but you and I should be able to pick it up with the rabbit ears when this happens and PBS when they increase power
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post #3065 of 4345 Old 10-17-2007, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenDB View Post

If I read this correctly/literally I will stop receiving ABC when the switch is made. Somebody tell me I'm wrong. I didn't go thru 4 UHF antennas just to see all go by by in 2009.

Actually this comes as quite a shock. As I have known for the last 4 or more years, (I've had HD since 2001) in 2009, analog TV transmission will cease. And somewhere along that way I understood that the VHF frequencies were going to be turned over/used for other purpose. Its been said that hundreds, if not thousands of different industries, want access to those frequencies. That VHF frequencies were never going to be used for digital TV. It was never mentioned.

When I first moved to Texas and I saw many people referring to VHF channel this for HD ABC viewing and VHF that for HD CBS viewing I knew that 2 different languages were being used. There were NO VHF channels that carried HD. The commercial HD transmission were all UHF since late 2000 (maybe a tad earlier) thru today as far as I know.

So now I'm wondering again. Was that a misspeak or VHF really is going to be used for digital HD transmissions? And it really doesn't make sense to force people to have multiple antennas to receive all network TV.
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post #3066 of 4345 Old 10-17-2007, 01:16 PM
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[quote=So now I'm wondering again. Was that a misspeak or VHF really is going to be used for digital HD transmissions? And it really doesn't make sense to force people to have multiple antennas to receive all network TV.[/QUOTE]


I was surprised as well as you, but glad to find out now instead of 2009.

More info here http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-06-1082A2.pdf

Info confirmed for SA stations.
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post #3067 of 4345 Old 10-17-2007, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenDB View Post

...Was that a misspeak or VHF really is going to be used for digital HD transmissions?"

In a word, yes.

The UHF (and some VHF) channels many stations have been using for transitional DTV service are temporary. Only a few stations will actually keep the DTV channels they now occupy; KABB-DT, for example. When DTV construction permits were first issued, stations were granted an essentially arbitrary channel to commence DTV service. Each station had the option to apply for a new permanent channel, keep the transitional assigned channel or return to their NTSC channel in 2009, but operating in Digital service.

Some choices are more obvious than others. In San Antonio KLRN and KSAT opted to return to their NTSC channels in the high band VHF region. KENS and WOAI opted for new UHF channels since low band VHF is rife with impulse noise, vulnerability to variable-e and tropo ducting interference and the requirement for relatively large receiving antennas.

KENS and WOAI both must return their transitional channels, which have been earmarked (auctioned) for other services in the post-transitional universe.

Yours in DTV,
Jerry Paonessa
Retired Video and RF Engineer

 

"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called Research." - Albert Einstein

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post #3068 of 4345 Old 10-18-2007, 06:31 PM
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Anyone know if and when TWC (or any provider) will carry KCWX-CW in HD here in San Antonio? It sucks watching my fav CW show (Supernatural) in a matted letterbox.
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post #3069 of 4345 Old 10-19-2007, 07:45 AM
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3 new HD channels for TWC noticed today. FOOD on 147, LMNHD on 166, and HGTV on 167. So far the only one working is LMNHD, which I assume is Lifetime Movie Network HD - great, another channel I need to delete before the wife sees! Other new channels say not available yet.
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post #3070 of 4345 Old 10-19-2007, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElusivEmu View Post

3 new HD channels for TWC noticed today. FOOD on 147, LMNHD on 166, and HGTV on 167. So far the only one working is LMNHD, which I assume is Lifetime Movie Network HD - great, another channel I need to delete before the wife sees! Other new channels say not available yet.

I didn't noticed the History Channel HD in the lineup. According to an article in the paper a few weeks back, that was one of the primary new channels we were supposed to get.
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post #3071 of 4345 Old 10-19-2007, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakujin View Post

Anyone know if and when TWC (or any provider) will carry KCWX-CW in HD here in San Antonio? It sucks watching my fav CW show (Supernatural) in a matted letterbox.

Sorry, hakujin;
KCWX is not prepared to deliver any programming in HD at present, by any method. This means that until KCWX builds an HD master control and delivery path, SD is what it will be on all providers and over the air. I have no indication as to when the owners will commit to an HD plan.

Yours in DTV,
Jerry Paonessa
Retired Video and RF Engineer

 

"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called Research." - Albert Einstein

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post #3072 of 4345 Old 10-19-2007, 09:05 AM
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I also notice the HD channels but disappointed I dont care for these channels but im waiting for the the history channel none of the new 3 channels are working
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post #3073 of 4345 Old 10-19-2007, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realthogue View Post

Sorry, hakujin;
KCWX is not prepared to deliver any programming in HD at present...

Thanks anyway for the explanation. I have an unrelated question... well more of a gripe to anyone that feels the same way I do... Why in the heck does WOAI cut off live Conan in HD after Leno for repeats of Scrubs?! This just doesn't make any sense to me. Conan is definitely not a 3rd tier host... heck , he's gonna replace Leno in '09 and much better than Letterman but that's just IMO. I thought I was lucky the other night and things had changed when Leno was concluding and I saw a 2 second glimpse of Conan (1080i), only to be cut off for Scrubs.


Another unrelated... I envy a lot of you that describe how you receive pretty good reception of all UHF channels with merely rabbit ears. I've been pretty unsuccessful at receiving all channels; curently just WOAI and KEN, very little KMYS and KABB; however they all can be a bit sketchy most times. I'm using a unamplified HDTV Wonder Directional Antenna (pointed West in a 2nd story game room) that has given me the best luck among all the amplified ones that I've tried (Terk, RCA, Philips, etc.) from retailers. BTW, I'm 1 mile west on Marbach from 410 (Far West Side).

I think close coordinates are as follows:

-98.66910 Long
29.41671 Lat

Not sure of the height but Marbach does dip down right after Hunt (my location) so that perhaps is a factor. Yellow and green (medium directional) appear to fit the bill on antennaweb so maybe I'll give one of those yet another try... I would really like to drop basic cable; maybe I should install attic antenna? I have the wall prewired so that wouldn't be a problem, but I'm definitely a newbie when it comes to this sort of thing.

Can any of you advise on best course of action to receive all my locals (minus KCWX)?
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post #3074 of 4345 Old 10-19-2007, 10:17 AM
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New HD channel adds to TWC! Taken directly from Time Warner

The following channel ADDITIONS are planned:

10/19/07 - Food Network HD on digital channel 147, Standard Tier
10/19/07 - HGTV HD on digital channel 167, Standard Tier
10/19/07 - LMN HD on digital channel 166, Standard Tier
10/20/07 - The History Channel HD on digital channel 174, Standard Tier
11/16/07 - Disney Channel On Demand on digital channel 915
11/19/07 - Election 08 On Demand on digital channel 1308
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post #3075 of 4345 Old 10-21-2007, 07:02 AM
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I was looking forward to the History channel in HD but it proved to be a disapointment. They are stretching their widescreen content and leaving black bars at top and bottom and the picture is squatty.

Anybody have any idea why channels such as A&E, and TBS, can't transmit 16x9 without squatting?

I think that TNT does a good job of transmitting nonHD content in 16x9 without squatting. They do it a lot with the older Law and Order series. Not sure about other programming.

Maybe time warner should set these stations to transmit in 480I, same as their digital channels, instead of 1080I.

My set locks in full mode with 1080I.
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post #3076 of 4345 Old 10-21-2007, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakujin View Post

Can any of you advise on best course of action to receive all my locals (minus KCWX)?

I'm sure you'll get lots of suggestions from people near you, hakujin, but it might be worthwhile to go to a small rooftop antenna. There are plenty of close fringe yagi's that are very small and won't hurt the look of your rooftop.

Some of your problem might be the materials contained in your house itself or your roofing material if your antenna is on the second floor. Could be (only you could know) you have a metal roof or one that contains a little metal that obstructs the path for some of the stations.

There's a chance that you could just put a short pole at the peak of the house and run the wire down the side (if you are able to get up there).

My high power, deep fringe UHF antenna still sells for under $40, so a small one would probably be in the price range you're looking for.

good luck though...

As for KSAT going VHF-HD, most viewers know channels by their original VHF number and identify a station by channel 4, 5 or 12. Also (NOT being a TV transmission type) I'm sure there is a large investment in VHF equipment that can be re-used easily if the station can go back to their native frequency. Channel 12 is one of the very best VHF frequencies to have, so I'm sure those are the thoughts for KSAT. As Jerry said, 2, 4 and 5 are NOT good choices since they have lots of other problems (though they do get better range).

That said, since KSAT is on Dish in HD, I won't be investing in a big ChannelMaster deep fringe VHF antenna and a beefier mast. I feel a little like Allen ... cheated after lots of careful planning and installing... but unlike the WOAI situation, they're available in other ways (for me, not Allen).
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post #3077 of 4345 Old 10-21-2007, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3vino View Post

I was looking forward to the History channel in HD but it proved to be a disapointment. They are stretching their widescreen content and leaving black bars at top and bottom and the picture is squatty.

Anybody have any idea why channels such as A&E, and TBS, can't transmit 16x9 without squatting?

I think that TNT does a good job of transmitting nonHD content in 16x9 without squatting. They do it a lot with the older Law and Order series. Not sure about other programming.

Maybe time warner should set these stations to transmit in 480I, same as their digital channels, instead of 1080I.

My set locks in full mode with 1080I.

I agree. Disappointed but not surprised! TWC will say "we send you what they feed us" And the originators think we are too dumb to care. If it were not for HD, Discovery, ESPN and a few others I would have quit long ago. I can get the locals on the air in HD but what sort of life would that be? I am just about ready to try satelite. I did not mention PBS...love their programs but they are really screwed up over the cable. O well have a nice day.
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post #3078 of 4345 Old 10-21-2007, 09:19 PM
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What's really annoying is when these channels take a 4:3 picture and stretch it, even though there is a widescreen source available. A&E has been doing that with Sopranos episodes that were originally broadcast in HD on HBO. Seems like they're doing this with movies as well. Makes the channels completely worthless and unwatchable.
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post #3079 of 4345 Old 10-22-2007, 09:47 AM
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At this point we still have the option of watching the analog station when an HD station is not transmitting HD and use the TV's own widemodes.

But the problem will be when analog stations go off the air. We will be stuck with HD stations broadcasting non HD programs with unwatchable stretch modes or 4x3 formats with bars on the side. The only wide modes available will be on the settop box remote.

Looks like the only option that sets that lock at full, when receving 1080I or 720P, will have is to set the set top box, assumming you are using one, to send a 480P or 480I signal to the tv. I experimented with the STB and I turned off 1080i. All HD channels were then sending a 480P signal to my set, same as digital non-HD stations. Then I was able to use my tv's own wide modes. It appears to be working but I'll have to experiment some more.

In the meantime, I'll just use the analog station when an HD station is not broadcasting in real HD.
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post #3080 of 4345 Old 10-22-2007, 10:16 PM
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New subject,
I'm trying to find out if the local time warner cable broadcasts the digital content as Unencrypted "Clear" QAM. I just got a AVerMedia AVerTVHD MCE A180 video capture
board for the pc. When I hooked it up to the cable output I use for the cable modem via a splitter and scanned for any unencrypted QAM channels I see nothing.
Since its a brand new board, I don't know if the board works (haven't tried an antenna
yet, the one I picked up at wal-mart was apparently a returned item and was broken) so I'm looking to figure out if I should be getting anything.
1. Does TW in SA send out the digital cable transmissions in the clear? I have digital
cable and hdtv service and can receive on the STB in hdtv fine (or as fine as TC can
be).
2. Since I'm splitting the signal off the line used for the cable modem, does this even
have the tv signal or is it filtered out? I don't have a portable htdv/tuner I can carry
back to the office to check if there is even tv signals on the cable modem line.

As soon as I can get to radio shack, I will get a small antenna to try. At this point I'm
just trying to figure out if the new board is working or not.

Does anyone have a similar setup that's working?
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post #3081 of 4345 Old 10-23-2007, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobplittleman View Post

New subject,
I'm trying to find out if the local time warner cable broadcasts the digital content as Unencrypted "Clear" QAM. I just got a AVerMedia AVerTVHD MCE A180 video capture
board for the pc. When I hooked it up to the cable output I use for the cable modem via a splitter and scanned for any unencrypted QAM channels I see nothing.
Since its a brand new board, I don't know if the board works (haven't tried an antenna
yet, the one I picked up at wal-mart was apparently a returned item and was broken) so I'm looking to figure out if I should be getting anything.
1. Does TW in SA send out the digital cable transmissions in the clear? I have digital
cable and hdtv service and can receive on the STB in hdtv fine (or as fine as TC can
be).
2. Since I'm splitting the signal off the line used for the cable modem, does this even
have the tv signal or is it filtered out? I don't have a portable htdv/tuner I can carry
back to the office to check if there is even tv signals on the cable modem line.

As soon as I can get to radio shack, I will get a small antenna to try. At this point I'm
just trying to figure out if the new board is working or not.

Does anyone have a similar setup that's working?

1 Yes, Last discussion of channels is at page 96 post 2873 to bottom of page.

2 I think so, split before the box, I recall some people were able to get digital channels in the clear when they were only signed up for internet cable (no TV service ).
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post #3082 of 4345 Old 10-24-2007, 10:31 AM
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Yes, Scan on Cable IRC. I thought clear was a no-go as I scanned both HRC and IRC to no avail. But my TV's tuner can be finnicky sometimes. Now all is well. Interesting that QAM clear may not get filtered after shutting off cable. I may try that. I've downgraded to the basic $15.40 service and was already thinking of dropping it totally for OTA, but since I'm still receiving standard service, I've been putting it off.
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post #3083 of 4345 Old 10-24-2007, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakujin View Post

Yes, Scan on Cable IRC. I thought clear was a no-go as I scanned both HRC and IRC to no avail. But my TV's tuner can be finnicky sometimes. Now all is well. Interesting that QAM clear may not get filtered after shutting off cable. I may try that. I've downgraded to the basic $15.40 service and was already thinking of dropping it totally for OTA, but since I'm still receiving standard service, I've been putting it off.

Glad you were able to get it to work.

I thought TW recommended to scan in ''STD'', but if IRC works, I guess that is all that matters
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post #3084 of 4345 Old 10-24-2007, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COOLRIVER View Post

Glad you were able to get it to work.

I thought TW recommended to scan in ''STD'', but if IRC works, I guess that is all that matters

Thanks.

I know you had some mixed experience with them, but it is my impression that the majority of TWC that I'm able to interface with (CSR or Installer techs) wouldn't know clear QAM from a hole in the ground. One CSR even went as far as to say, 'it is most certainly encrypted, there is no question about it'. Heheh, 2nd scan on IRC did the trick.

That being said, I see myself installing an antenna sooner then later, so I can say bye-bye to the overpriced mediocrity of cable channels that I don't even watch.

Though, I miss CW/WGN and IMO better PBS content in high def.
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post #3085 of 4345 Old 10-24-2007, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3vino View Post

RE: KSAT HD problems.

Just received a reply from KSAT and they said that they are experiencing technical glitches from the new digital feed from ABC and that they are trying to correct the problem ASAP.

That does not explain why does the KSAT HD on TW Channel 112 look like a 128k feed in windows media player over the internet? Where is all their bandwidth going? The picture quality is terrible. It's the worst SD I've seen on an HD channel
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post #3086 of 4345 Old 10-25-2007, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobplittleman View Post

New subject,
I'm trying to find out if the local time warner cable broadcasts the digital content as Unencrypted "Clear" QAM. I just got a AVerMedia AVerTVHD MCE A180 video capture
board for the pc. When I hooked it up to the cable output I use for the cable modem via a splitter and scanned for any unencrypted QAM channels I see nothing.
Since its a brand new board, I don't know if the board works (haven't tried an antenna
yet, the one I picked up at wal-mart was apparently a returned item and was broken) so I'm looking to figure out if I should be getting anything.
1. Does TW in SA send out the digital cable transmissions in the clear? I have digital
cable and hdtv service and can receive on the STB in hdtv fine (or as fine as TC can
be).
2. Since I'm splitting the signal off the line used for the cable modem, does this even
have the tv signal or is it filtered out? I don't have a portable htdv/tuner I can carry
back to the office to check if there is even tv signals on the cable modem line.

As soon as I can get to radio shack, I will get a small antenna to try. At this point I'm
just trying to figure out if the new board is working or not.

Does anyone have a similar setup that's working?

I share the modem and a TV off the same outlet. According to TWC, this is not the preferred setup. They recommend that the modem have a completely separate line from the outside box to the modem. At my prior home, they ran a cable through the attic. In my new home, they wanted to run a cable along the eave all the way around the far side of the house to the room where I wanted to install the router. That room already had a cable connection, so I told them I would live with sharing the line. By and large, it seems to do OK this way. I did have difficulty in finding channels with the scan, although I do know whether this is because of a weakened (split) signal or a weak tuner.

These are the channels I am currently receiving on:

110-81 LATV
110-104 WOAI (NBC HD)
110-112 KSAT (ABC HD)
111-91 KLRN (PBS)
111-94 KLRN (PBS)
111-111 KABB (FOX HD)
112-107 KRRT (WB HD) (well sort of HD)
112-108 KLRN (PBS)
112-155 KENS (CBS HD)
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post #3087 of 4345 Old 10-27-2007, 07:39 AM
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KRRT is WB? Isn't that KCWX (the CW)?

I don't know what TWC is smoking about not running HSI and Cable off same line. I did it for more than a year with Comcast; it's the only choice you have sometimes in an apartment and the way they in fact set it up. Both worked great off a splitter, minus the abysmal upload speed they gave me (kind of like TWC but worse) but that was entirely another problem.
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post #3088 of 4345 Old 10-29-2007, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakujin View Post

KRRT is WB? Isn't that KCWX (the CW)?

hakujin,

KRRT was the WB until last year, I believe, when WB and UPN folded into the CW. KRRT then became a member of "My Network," whatever that is, and changed its call sign to KMYS. Now they are "MY35" TV with "My Network" programs.

KCWX is the CW station in San Antonio, although the transmitter (analog ch 2) is licensed to Fredericksburg but covers San Antonio. The station is available on cable and via satellite in the San Antonio DMA and on some services in Austin. Unfortunately KCWX is not yet HD-capable. The owners continue to negotiate for a different channel than DTV 5, which is what was assigned in the final round of DTV allocations. They would rather have DTV 8, the same as WFAA in Dallas. I am certain there are discussions about co-channel interference, even though spacing should not be an issue.

Yours in DTV,
Jerry Paonessa
Retired Video and RF Engineer

 

"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called Research." - Albert Einstein

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post #3089 of 4345 Old 10-31-2007, 03:33 PM
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So what are the latest HD boxes Time Warner has in their lineup?

I'm using a SA 8300HD DVR, anything newer out ?

What about the menu system. Does Time Warner have any intentions of upgrading it? it seems it's been the same for the last 10yrs at least.
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post #3090 of 4345 Old 11-03-2007, 07:35 AM
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And it starts again. The SA CBS affiliate tossed Moonlight and Numb3rs last night because of a basketball game. Last season I vaguely remember that they would be shown at some time in the wee hours of the morning like at 2am or something. I didn't see anything in the DirecTV schedule so I didn't know how to set up a recording.

Does anybody know what Ch 5 did with those two programs and how does one set up to record them (for a later showing) when this happens?
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