Buffalo, NY - HDTV - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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Local HDTV Info and Reception > Buffalo, NY - HDTV
rwantennasat's Avatar rwantennasat 09:00 PM 02-19-2004
yup,
almost forgot about tbn on ch 15. they are on the island with a fairly strong
signal. that might be blocking it .but im more prone to believe that fox on 14 would give me more problems. running a parabolic dish does offer the tightest beamwidth of all,so im thinking that 15 in hamilton is pretty weak or they arent running 24/7?? can anybody over that way verify this? inversion will start soon on uhf so alot of you guys will think "hey my antenna isnt that bad" But now is the true test (when conditions are bland)with this nice weather we had today it started me thinkin of all the antenna work i wanna get done too.i have a place cottage on lake ontario,cant wait to get up some good stuff there this summer.
remember if anyone on here needs antenna help,amps,rotors,super low loss cable etc. let me know. i got tons of it.
take care Rich Lockport n.y.
P.S. please put your locationson your posts im interested in knowing where you are when your seeing or not seeing things.

rwantennasat's Avatar rwantennasat 09:08 PM 02-19-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by pmb1010
I tried to get 66-1 using my current temporary setup (Radio Shack yagi on push up pole approx 20 ft high, & CM UHF Preamp)

i think you would do better with a winegrd preamp. i just bought out a warehouse full of 4700's and 4800's 19-30 db gain. these are much better for uhf than any of the c.m. models I've tried em all and winegards simply better built amps when it comes to their transistor use. they use super hot transistors with low noise and high outputs.c.m. is still usin stuff from the 70's inside em.????


but it's just blinking the digital light on my T-165.

I checked CH15 but get some analog station there, no digital.

No can find 53, and yes that is CityTV on CN tower at 600 watts...

I'm in NT 14120.


pmb1010's Avatar pmb1010 06:35 AM 02-20-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by rwantennasat

"a better amp"???

I know I need more antenna gain, not just more amplification of a low signal (and the accompanying noise).

My new setup for spring install:

- VU937SR VHF/UHF antenna, with the optional UHF extension unit.
- Winegard VHF/UHF preamp AP8275
- 150 ft of RG-11 which I'll cut as needed.
- installed on roof tower (hopefully) above ham triband beam about 45 ft off gound. I'll need to tip the roof tower over to install above beam (a hassle) but I can go about 35 ft (install below the beam) and not tip the tower...
daredevil23's Avatar daredevil23 07:16 AM 02-20-2004
Thanks for the heads up fellas, just received my first Canadian station in HD and it's bringing a tear to my eye.

Getting Toronto 1 at a solid 11.7 dB signal strength. Woohoo!!!
New Cable Guy's Avatar New Cable Guy 08:31 AM 02-20-2004
Where approx. are you located Daredevil?
daredevil23's Avatar daredevil23 09:01 AM 02-20-2004
You tell me yours and I'll tell you mine.

So you can't translate GPS coordinates into something useful? How about Niagara Falls, Ontario.
rubblerubble's Avatar rubblerubble 09:28 AM 02-20-2004
Play nice, daredevil.

What kind of setup do you have? I'm 23 miles due SE from you, 60 miles as the crow flies to Toronto and I doubt I'll even get a blip on 66, even when I put the pre-amp up later today.
daredevil23's Avatar daredevil23 10:11 AM 02-20-2004
I am located at 43 miles from the CN Tower transmitter, and my setup is an aerial on a 30 foot tower that my neighbor donated to me (thanks neighbor).

The antenna is similar to a Channelmaster and to this aerial I've added a Radio Shack 20/25 dB amplifier (mostly to overcome the 150 foot cable lead length and the splitter I have).
Daniel Tonks's Avatar Daniel Tonks 03:59 PM 02-20-2004
Odd that CityTV @ 0.6kw comes in so much better for me than T1 @ 2.81kw.

Anyone seen any blips on WKBW?
dsspredator's Avatar dsspredator 06:10 PM 02-20-2004
Quote:


Odd that CityTV @ 0.6kw comes in so much better for me than T1 @ 2.81kw

Maybe because CITY is directional
And CKXT is non-direction.

People on the southern shore of Lake Ontario
are receiving CKXT (Tor 1) without problems.
CITY is very difficult to receive in our location and
not where you live.

With my antenna north, CKXT shows 5-6 bars and CITY zero.
jurassicjockey's Avatar jurassicjockey 08:05 AM 02-21-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by rubblerubble
I'm 23 miles due SE from you, 60 miles as the crow flies to Toronto and I doubt I'll even get a blip on 66, even when I put the pre-amp up later today. [/b]

I've got a vertical stack of Televes with a channel master preamp on top of a 64' tower and I can barely receive CITY at 55 miles. They really need to boost their power
New Cable Guy's Avatar New Cable Guy 09:40 AM 02-21-2004
Regarding City-DT from a CRTC decision:

As proposed, the undertaking would operate from the CN Tower on channel 53C with a directional antenna and maximum ERP of 980 watts (average ERP of 600 watts), and with an effective antenna height above average terrain (EHAAT) of 515 metres. These proposed technical parameters would result in an ERP of less than half the maximum permitted by the Department of Industry (the Department). As a consequence, the digital service area would be significantly smaller than the current analog service area of CITY-TV. Moreover, at the proposed ERP level, the digital service area would be further reduced by interference from other stations.

14.
In the transitional digital TV policy, the Commission encouraged broadcasters to construct their digital facilities in a manner that would produce coverage that matches their current analog coverage, within the constraints of the Department's allotment plan. The fact that the digital service area proposed by CHUM would fall short of that produced by CITY-TV's existing analog transmitter is at odds with the Commission's policy.

15.
In response to questions as to why CHUM had applied for a channel that would be subject to interference, CHUM advised that it had requested the Department to change the channel designated for the proposed undertaking under the DTV allotment plan from channel 66C to 53C because of its concern that channels 60 to 69 might be reallocated to other services. Moreover, CHUM submitted that its existing antenna could accommodate channel 53, but not channel 66.

16.
The Commission notes that, during the analog-to-digital transition period, the Department would allow a maximum ERP for this channel of 2,200 watts at the EHAAT of 515 metres. These parameters would mitigate some of the interference limitations and provide a service that more closely approximates the existing analog service of CITY-TV Toronto. The Commission further notes, based on CHUM's own estimates, that there would be a cost of $92,400 associated with increasing the ERP to the maximum level allowed by the Department during the transition period.

17.
This is the first licence application for a transitional digital television undertaking to be considered by the Commission. It involves a prominent service in the largest market in the country. In the Commission's view, it is important that this undertaking provide signal coverage that approximates, as closely as possible, that of the existing analog service and that it offer the best possible signal quality, in keeping with the transitional digital TV policy.

18.
At the same time, the Commission does not wish to discourage CHUM's early adoption and transition to digital over-the-air transmission by imposing an immediate requirement on this applicant to achieve the optimum ERP level. For all of these reasons, by condition of licence, the Commission requires the licensee, within one year of the date that its new digital television undertaking commences operations, to file an application to increase the undertaking's ERP to the maximum level permitted by the Department.
BLT's Avatar BLT 12:36 PM 02-21-2004
I noticed on Antenna Web that channel 7 has an FCC extension again. I e-mailed the station manager to see if he could tell me what was going on again. Will they ever get on the air or what
rwantennasat's Avatar rwantennasat 08:45 PM 02-21-2004
[quote]Originally posted by pmb1010
[b]"a better amp"???

I know I need more antenna gain, not just more amplification of a low signal (and the accompanying noise).

My new setup for spring install:

- VU937SR VHF/UHF antenna, with the optional UHF extension unit.
- Winegard VHF/UHF preamp AP8275
- 150 ft of RG-11 which I'll cut as needed.
- installed on roof tower (hopefully) above ham triband beam about 45 ft off gound. I'll need to tip the roof tower over to install above beam (a hassle) but I can go about 35 ft (install below the beam) and not tip the tower...

Well the old saying is the higher the better. especially with uhf. of course if your a ham you allready know that.the triband beam may cause a little interaction on the vhf side. I would put it at the top. keep the beam belowa good 10 ft. the delhi antenna your looking at is a good choice and the powr zoom extender for uhf does actually help. Im a big believer in running seperate antennas for vhf/uhf but if your in a limited space situation the thats a good choice. I install alot of delhi stuff ,have for years. B.T.W. i have apx 10,000 ft of commscope and belden rg-11u foiland heavy shield to 2 ghz cable and i sell it very cheap. if ya need some for the project let me know.
do you have the antenna yet? I by directly from delhi/wade antenna and can get real good prices on them. Good luck Let me know
Rich In Rapids(s.Lockport)
New Cable Guy's Avatar New Cable Guy 05:23 AM 02-22-2004
The info at antenna web is inaccurate. First of all WKBW should be up soon. It also says WNYB is awaiting a permit, well they have a permit already according to the FCC website, and WNYO also has an STA to operate.
BLT's Avatar BLT 07:04 AM 02-22-2004
New Cable Guy:

Thanks for the info. I thought it was strange for them to have a FCC extension again as their station manager said they would begin testing the week of the 22nd of Feb.
Daniel Tonks's Avatar Daniel Tonks 03:33 AM 02-24-2004
Well, it's the 24th... any news on WKBW, or when WUTV will switch from color bars to a more entertaining form of testing? :-)
rubblerubble's Avatar rubblerubble 06:58 AM 02-24-2004
Here's a post I made on www.rochesterhdtv.com regarding WKBW...

"Also, I have heard from a semi-reputable source that WKBW is going to drag this out until the actual extension deadline because of the costs of running OTA DTV. Yeah, my already negative attitude towards them has gotten worse."

So essentially, they would rather save some cash than embrace the new technology. Amazing. Even freakin' WUTV, A FOX AFFILIATE, has their signal up before WKBW.
dsspredator's Avatar dsspredator 08:14 AM 02-24-2004
Quote:


WUTV, A FOX AFFILIATE, has their signal up before WKBW

And an excellent signal too! Even at low power.
I know the signal is not HD yet, but their signal
is very reliable.
rubblerubble's Avatar rubblerubble 09:40 AM 02-24-2004
I really need some help here. I guess I could've posted a separate thread for this, but since you Buffalo people are familiar with the stations and conditions, I thought I should try here first. I still consider myself to be somewhat of a newbie, so bear with me, and thank you in advance.

Okay, so this house I'm in had an antenna on the roof, chimney mount. I'm 1 mile NW of the airport in the Maryvale area. Here are some pics of the antenna.

antenna1
antenna2

Based on the pics, it looks like a Radio Shack VU-120 XR, although it certainly is not 120 in boom length (at least not from the naked eye, more like 70-90). It's mounted about 4 feet from the top of the chimney, a total of 25-30 feet off the ground. It does have a single coax connection (RG6) running down into the house, then to the TV/STB (approx. 100ft). No rotor yet.

I'm trying to get good, solid signals for both analog and DTV. I'm 60 miles as-the-crow-flies to Rochester, Toronto, and Hamilton. 87 miles to Erie. Prior to playing around with a new pre-amp, I was able to get most of my locals in DTV, when I was pointed towards Colden. However, PBS and FOX were always breaking up unless I went on the roof and pointed the antenna towards Grand Island. Of course, then I'd lose CBS and NBC to breakups. I've noticed the UHF analogs suffered from general interference, which alarms me.

So, while the snow fell, I bought a Winegard 8780 pre-amp (17db VHF, 28 db UHF). I also had a cheap RCA set-top antenna. Just to experiment, I put the RCA antenna on the second floor, connected the pre-amp, ran a 100ft RG6 connection, and tried it out. I was able to get
2,4,7, 17, 29, 49, and 51 analog almost perfect! I also got 55 (Global55, Niagara Falls), 56 (MTV2, the old BOX), 12 (WICU, Erie), amongst others, with watchable clarity.

So now I'm thinking, GREAT! Just wait until I get that pre-amp on the roof! Well, last Friday, installed the pre-amp on the mast. Checked out the signals and to my dismay, it's terrible. I turned the antenna towards Toronto with the hopes of getting better analog reception, plus a shot at Toronto 1, 66. 2, 4, and 7 analog come in perfect no matter where pointed. However, DTV signals must be suffering from amplified interference because they break-up despite a strong signal. Even pointed towards the Toronto, Grand Island way, PBS DTV breaks up. Here is a breakdown and pics of what I'm seeing (keep in mind, antenna pointed towards Toronto)

5 analog - strong picture, but diagonal lines fade in and out. Quite watchable. CBC 5
9 analog - strong picture, but more diagonal lines. Somewhat watchable. CTV 9
11 analog - picture there, but look at that interference. CHCH 11
17 analog - strong picture, interference from channel 23. PBS 17
23 analog - strong picture, but strong interference from 17. UPN 23
29 analog - same as above, but stronger interference from 17. FOX 29
41 and 47 - seems like a picture could be there, but way too much interference from somewhere, probably 17 and/or 23. GLOBAL 41 OMNI 47

In fact, channel 17 seems to interfere with just about everything in the UHF band. It even presents itself all distorted on analog frequencies such as 32 and 34, which, will be DTV here soon.

My questions are

1) Is this multipath or interference? I don't have any tall buildings, or trees within 50 feet. Some trees scattered after that 50 feet, but all of the houses are the same height.

2) Is this the antenna? Could it be too old and run down? Is it letting in interference? The connections seem okay, but I may take it down to examine them when it gets warmer.

3) Is the pre-amp OVER-amplifying the signals? If so, then how would I be able to pull in Toronto, Rochester, or Hamilton while reducing the locals so they won't conflict?

4) Would a new Winegard or Channel Master (near fringe - fringe) accomplish my goals, eliminate the interference if it's not the current antenna's problem?

I know, there's a lot to read here, but any help is critical right now. Obviously, pulling in the DTV is paramount to analog, so I'd be satisfied at eliminating VHF entirely and getting a good yagi for UHF.

Once again, thank you in advance.
New Cable Guy's Avatar New Cable Guy 05:43 PM 02-24-2004
It sounds to me like an over amplification problem. Try setting up the antenna without the pre-amp for now. It could also be a flaky or noisy pre-amp causing you trouble. Try aiming at Toronto without the pre-amp and the shortest lead possible and see if you receive 66. As you know, others on this thread in Lockport can receive it.
sprocto4's Avatar sprocto4 06:16 AM 02-25-2004
I added a variable attenuator (RS- 15-678) inline and it has helped me dial in signal strength from time to time.
rubblerubble's Avatar rubblerubble 09:23 AM 02-25-2004
sprocto4, does it reduce overall signal strength for all channels (as opposed to being frequency specific) based on your setting, or does it simply implement a cut-off point for maximum DB across the board? Pardon my ignorance, I've just never used equipment like this before. Also, where should you put it on the line; after the pre-amp or between the pre-amp and power supply?
sprocto4's Avatar sprocto4 10:32 AM 02-25-2004
I believe it reduces over the entire TV band but I am no expert. Some stations seem to be more stable with less signal. On some of the Rochester stations for example, the peak signal level on the receiver is somewhere between 0% and 100% of the dial on the attenuation. I think it has something to do with the negative affect of raising the noise floor to a point of reducing to effective signal to noise ratio, but that's a guess. I have it installed between the pre-amp power supply and the HD receiver.
rubblerubble's Avatar rubblerubble 11:01 AM 02-25-2004
Thanks sprocto4. I will look into trying one out. At least if it doesn't help the problem, I can return it.

Can anyone else shed some light upon my dilemma? Oh, and still no WKBW!
Mr. Biggles's Avatar Mr. Biggles 03:56 PM 02-25-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by rubblerubble
Can anyone else shed some light upon my dilemma? Oh, and still no WKBW!

Possibly the fact that the Buffalo Airport is practically a next door neighbor? (I'm speculating)


Bill
rubblerubble's Avatar rubblerubble 08:25 PM 02-25-2004
When the flight patterns are a certain way, some of the distortion caused by the planes is only temporary. The interference you see in those pics is constant. So, unless there are constant transmissions/disturbances coming from the airport, I'm not sure it plays a huge role. I'm just speculating too.
jurassicjockey's Avatar jurassicjockey 08:35 PM 02-25-2004
I don't think multipath from the planes would be an issue. More likely interference from the antenna farm, or radar, or possibly the nav aids if they're located close to you. I agree with NCG, sounds like you should reduce the amplification, possibly look at a more directional antenna so that you can try and isolate where the problem is coming from.
rubblerubble's Avatar rubblerubble 08:56 PM 02-25-2004
JJ, that's what I'm going to focus on. I'll try a variable attenuator so I can slowly bring down the signal strength to hopefully a point where all the stations can be happy. I don't think it would hurt to get a new antenna too. If this doesn't help, perhaps I'll look at a pre-amp under 20 db, perhaps the Winegard 8700.

Thankfully it will be warm this weekend. I don't think my neighbors even look twice anymore when they see me on the roof!
jurassicjockey's Avatar jurassicjockey 05:18 AM 02-26-2004
Quote:


Thankfully it will be warm this weekend. I don't think my neighbors even look twice anymore when they see me on the roof!


Isn't it fun being the neighbourhood eccentric. I know I've given my neighbours lots of entertainment over the last 10 years.
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