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post #7441 of 7455 Old 01-21-2015, 04:18 AM
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Dave,
By your own admission, the improvement from SD to HD is far greater than going from 1080 to 2160 in more aspects than just video. People had analog equipment far longer than what they have HD equipment. The obsolescence had no were near the financial impact that this 'new & improved' version with the very slight improvement providing your set happens to be large enough.
The other point, just how does ATSC 3 fit in for MSO's QAM systems??

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.

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post #7442 of 7455 Old 01-21-2015, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
The other point, just how does ATSC 3 fit in for MSO's QAM systems??

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It doesn't. As you know, ATSC is a OTA broadcast standard. QAM is the modulation method used on cable. IF 4k gained popularity the MSOs could easily offer 4k over their systems by using new STBs with 4K capabilities for those customers desiring (and willing to pay more for) it. Doing this would reduce the number of QAM channels available for conventional HD (&SD) chanels - but there are other methods for recovering some of those channels (such as using MPEG4, instead of MPEG2).

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post #7443 of 7455 Old 01-21-2015, 12:19 PM
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new hose need antenna recommendation

This past November moved into new house in Amherst, NY. Looking for antenna opinion for reception of Canadian stations. Here is my tvfool output:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2c1572fd77f325

I would like to know if the following will work as the house already has(to be removed) a satellite dish +cables on the front of the roof with good exposure to the North not blocked by any trees:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=4545184

Thoughts?
would I get too much interference from the Grand Island stations?
Thanks for your input in advance
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post #7444 of 7455 Old 01-21-2015, 01:54 PM
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It doesn't. As you know, ATSC is a OTA broadcast standard. QAM is the modulation method used on cable.
Then that change is only of limited value by itself and does more harm than good forcing another round of upgrading by the consumer, with most not being interested in 4k.

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #7445 of 7455 Old 01-22-2015, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
Then that change is only of limited value by itself and does more harm than good forcing another round of upgrading by the consumer, with most not being interested in 4k.
Everything I have read on ATSC, is that it is a more robust broadcast standard. Broadcasters want the standard to broadcast to mobile devices. I am not sure 4 K is necessarily the reason they want the standard, but ATSC lets them fit more into a smaller bandwidth. I am with you, I don't want to upgrade my equipment and could care less about 4 K, but if ATSC helps OTA survive into the future and gives a more robust signal, I am all for it. But I am not sure it will happen, or that all broadcasters are on the same page, so it may not happen.
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post #7446 of 7455 Old 01-22-2015, 03:29 PM
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ATSC has been in operation since day one of the digital transition. This V3 is the issue and backwards compatibility or lack of.
They can't even give us true (full) 1080 due bandwidth restriction in the delivery chain. All one has to do is watch a Blu Ray disc and it's obvious even OTA network material isn't on par in comparison. The possible exception is sports. What gets me is just how bad the video falls apart during high degrees of motion. You freeze an action scene and it's all pixelated. How are they suppose to do 4k when even 720 material is a mess? The best examples are scenes with strobe lighting (nightclubs), lightning, fireworks etc. The video really breaks up terribly.

Is ATSC 3 some magic solution?

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #7447 of 7455 Old 01-22-2015, 04:01 PM
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How are they suppose to do 4k when even 720 material is a mess?
Different (better & more efficient) compression algorithms.

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post #7448 of 7455 Old 01-23-2015, 06:39 AM
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And that is going to solve the pixelation problems with fast motion that plagues ATSC (and more so QAM)?

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #7449 of 7455 Old 01-23-2015, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jt1001001 View Post
This past November moved into new house in Amherst, NY. Looking for antenna opinion for reception of Canadian stations. Here is my tvfool output:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2c1572fd77f325

I would like to know if the following will work as the house already has(to be removed) a satellite dish +cables on the front of the roof with good exposure to the North not blocked by any trees:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=4545184

Thoughts?
would I get too much interference from the Grand Island stations?
Thanks for your input in advance
I own the RCA ANT751, and I wouldn't recommend it for your situation. This antenna manufacturer doesn't even publish this antenna's gain specifications. I would say that the AntennaCraft HBU33 is a much better option. UHF reception on the RCA is very marginal, but it is pretty good for high-VHF channels. It doesn't always pick up everything it should, even when the noise margins are even 30-40, it still has issues with UHF. One thing good about this antenna is that it is small.

Don't use a preamplifier or an amplifer!! I have signal levels similar to yours where I live, and the preamp worsens distant signals due to overload. Use RG-6 cable, minimize the length of coax between the antenna and TV, and if possible, don't split the signal... that will reduce weak signals significantly below the noise margin threshold.

If you really want to go big, I would recommend the Antennas Direct XG91 UHF antenna combined with a high-VHF antenna like the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13. If you decide to do this, you'll need a VHF/UHF diplexer to combine the antennas into one coaxial cable. This is the setup I use, and it works well for me... picks up signals with negative noise margins. I have these antennas mounted on my roof with a rotator. I would recommend a rotator since the XG91 is very directional, but it works well. The gain is great on this antenna.
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post #7450 of 7455 Old 01-23-2015, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
And that is going to solve the pixelation problems with fast motion that plagues ATSC (and more so QAM)?
Probably not: a "better" compression algorithm can still be abused in the battle of quality vs quantity.

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post #7451 of 7455 Old 01-23-2015, 11:50 AM
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I am with you, I don't want to upgrade my equipment and could care less about 4 K
I don't plan or want to replace any of my HDTV's with a 4K TV because i believe it will have the same fate as 3D. Most tv network probably won't get 4 K equipment & even if they did you're gonna have to pay more for 4k programming which will end up looking like 720 after it gets compressed so there's no point in getting 4k equipment when the picture quality we will be getting is the same as what we have now. If they start making 4k blu-ray players that will be the best way to enjoy 4k programming.
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post #7452 of 7455 Old 01-23-2015, 02:19 PM
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I don't plan or want to replace any of my HDTV's with a 4K TV because i believe it will have the same fate as 3D. Most tv network probably won't get 4 K equipment & even if they did you're gonna have to pay more for 4k programming which will end up looking like 720 after it gets compressed so there's no point in getting 4k equipment when the picture quality we will be getting is the same as what we have now. If they start making 4k blu-ray players that will be the best way to enjoy 4k programming.
Just a couple of "pro-4K" comments:
  • 4K standards call for wider color gamut capabilities (whether anyone distributes 4K that way is another matter)
  • It seems that the world is moving to streaming video (Netflix, Amazon, etc) and doing that in 4K is relatively easy. In fact Netflix and Amazon are doing it now (on limited titles)
    • Note that most movies these days are mastered in 4K!

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post #7453 of 7455 Old 01-24-2015, 10:05 PM
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If you really want to go big, I would recommend the Antennas Direct XG91 UHF antenna combined with a high-VHF antenna like the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13. If you decide to do this, you'll need a VHF/UHF diplexer to combine the antennas into one coaxial cable. This is the setup I use, and it works well for me...
I have the exact same set-up! And yes, it works quite well.


As you can see, I removed the reflector on the 91XG in an attempt to receive my locals from the back...(which are only 10 miles away) since it's pointed to a couple of distant stations in the opposite direction. The Y5-7-13 on top is correctly pointed towards the 4 VHF channels we have here! Including ch. 6!! (yes, RF 6) --- which the Y5 picks up flawlessly.
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post #7454 of 7455 Old 01-25-2015, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
If you really want to go big, I would recommend the Antennas Direct XG91 UHF antenna combined with a high-VHF antenna like the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13. If you decide to do this, you'll need a VHF/UHF diplexer to combine the antennas into one coaxial cable. This is the setup I use, and it works well for me...
I have the exact same set-up! And yes, it works quite well.


As you can see, I removed the reflector on the 91XG in an attempt to receive my locals from the back...(which are only 10 miles away) since it's pointed to a couple of distant stations in the opposite direction. The Y5-7-13 on top is correctly pointed towards the 4 VHF channels we have here! Including ch. 6!! (yes, RF 6) --- which the Y5 picks up flawlessly.
Here is a photo of my two antennas mounted above the rotator. I was reading about the effect of having these two antennas mounted near each other, and the impact is negligible on antenna gains. The F/b ratio is impacted if they're too close, so that's why a have a few feet of separation. It's not that great on the rotator, but I am pretty close to the allowable mast height quoted in the rotator manual. Most antenna rotators under $150 don't last very long anyways. Mine froze up a couple times already this year.
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post #7455 of 7455 Unread Today, 07:59 PM
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Might not want to spend too much effort on that. The Canadian broadcasters (which are for the most point owned by cable and internet providers) want to turn off OTA transmitters. And of course they'll use the freed up spectrum more paid services. There are hearings this week. American are allowed to post comments at the link below too. Deadline is Friday.

http://consultation.crtc.gc.ca/en/co...omment-hearing
Update to my post from a few months ago. Canadian broadcasters will NOT be allowed to turn off OTA transmitters and retain all the privileges they have as broadcasters (at least for the forseeable future).
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