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post #61 of 11355 Old 06-24-2002, 04:15 PM
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I have no doubt that network programming is going to take a long time. My problem with FOX concern sports. Sports is being used by TV makers to help sell HD sets. People are buying sets with the idea that they can watch some sporting events in HD.
FOX's growth of the last few years has not been on the back of its network programming but due to its Sports offerings. Baseball, NFC, NASCAR, etc. Every other network has broadcast at least 1 major sporting event in HD. HDNET is doing several games, other smaller regional sports networks are getting cameras and also broadcasting some on HD capable cable systems. Even ESPN might get in the act! WHY NOT FOX!

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post #62 of 11355 Old 06-24-2002, 04:41 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by zmeister
I have no doubt that network programming is going to take a long time. My problem with FOX concern sports.

I wish I could give you an answer, but I have no information. That is something that is decided in LA. You might want to write a letter to them and state your opinions.

I know that is not the answer you wanted to hear, but if the network doesn't send it to us, we can't transmit it.

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post #63 of 11355 Old 06-24-2002, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by talosman

WXII (NBC) - unable to get their signal

WXII NOT is transmitting PSIP. That causes my RCA DTC-100 not to recognize the signal at all. It may be that way with other receivers. I receive WUNL-DT great when I spin my antenna.

I spoke with the owners of a HUGHES HD DirecTV Receiver, his receiver reads the channels differently than my RCA - yet it's the same data.

As Charlie has mentioned - TOO MANY things, Closed Captioning, PSIP, Program Guide, Audio and so forth - no standards.
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post #64 of 11355 Old 06-24-2002, 07:36 PM
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Foxeng: You didn't say if a pre-amp was installed or not. If not, that would be the next step to go to. If not, then outside is your only hope.
============

I ask them this evening when Carolina Communications called me. They told it has a "power invertor". There was a power adapter, it plug into the cable near the TV. And it suppose to boost the power at the antenna.

- Talos
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post #65 of 11355 Old 06-24-2002, 07:44 PM
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dubbadon, if my decoder support all 18 standards, shouldn't that work? I think it may have to do with my antenna set up.... or locations? too many variables right now.....
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post #66 of 11355 Old 06-25-2002, 04:57 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by talosman
dubbadon, if my decoder support all 18 standards, shouldn't that work? I think it may have to do with my antenna set up.... or locations? too many variables right now.....

Unfortunately that is not how DTV works. Not only do you have to have a signal to decode, you need to have the the PSIP data configured correctly for the receiver to reassemble the different pieces into a usable signal.

Trust me, to go into all the of nuances of PSIP is WAY beyond this thread! If you really want to tackle this, the Sarnoff website has about the best technical explanation of how PSIP works of any I have seen. It is still very technical, but if you understand streaming, you might glean some stuff from it.

Now having said that, some first generation DTV receivers, the DTC-100 and its variants are 1st generation receivers, work on a slightly different PSIP protocol that was in use at that time of manufacture. The PSIP protocol has been updated twice since then and the DTC-100's require PSIP data to decode a station correctly. If a station is not transmitting any PSIP data, then the receiver doesn't know how to reassemble the signal so it ignores it. Later versions of the PSIP protocol have other ways of determining the correct sequence and so they will decode stations with no PSIP data (like WXII). But if the PSIP data is misconfigured, you will have all kinds of funny things happen, like video from one stream with audio from another stream, or if you have two stations and they have the TSID incorrectly configured (the TSID is a unique ID number for each station in the country that the MSTV organization has assigned and is trying to get the FCC to recognize it) and if it is set to 1 or 0 or the same as another station your area, when you go to station WXXX, your receiver will go to station WYYY instead because it looks to see how the PSIPs match the TSID. For instance, WGHP's TSID for channel 8 is 1832 and for channel 35 is 1833. This tells the receiver that TSID 1833 is the digital channel for High Point, NC. TSID 1 is for a station in Alaska! It gets confusing!

As of today, best I can tell, all stations that I can receiver, all locals anyway, are transmitting some form of PSIP except WXII. I see that WXLV and WUPN have reconfigured PSIP from their actual DTV channels (29, 33) to their remapped analog channels (45, 48) but now all I get is WUPN's HD stream (48-2) which shows nothing but color bars all the time.(48-1 is their regular SD channel which my Samsung is not decoding now) But that is better than before, I used to get nothing at all on 48 (33)! So Gil is working on it! The professional DTV demod at work will decode both WUPN streams, but I have to force it to do that.

NAB has reported that 80% of all DTV problems these days are due to misconfigured PSIP because engineers do not understand it. I know I don't as well as I should. I am trying, but it is a HUGE learning curve. We will get there! (PSIP will be the death of all the engineers! I am positive of it!)

I got more in depth than I intended to, but as you can see, it isn't as straight forward as it looks.

Hope that helps!

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post #67 of 11355 Old 06-25-2002, 04:58 AM
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Talos: You might want to try a find a RS Double-bow tie antenna. They have been discontinued but check around most RS's have one or two somewhere. It is less than $20 and from your location you should be able to pick up all of the local digital stations w/o a preamp. I have used that antenna here in ELon and was able to pick up a number of stations in the Triad and Triangle but with a preamp. My cousin is using it in South Charlotte to pick up all the Charlotte stations which are about as far away and in different directions as in your case. Of course your problem might lie in your reciever but then?

I don't have a problem with any of the digital stations and PSIP right now. The 6000 is able to decode them all at the present time but I have had problems in the past. I check UPN48 and it comes in after a couple of seconds but I'm going to have to resave it because the channel mapping is right now. It was saved as 33 and is not being remapped right now but it does show 48 on the ADD DTV menu.

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post #68 of 11355 Old 06-25-2002, 05:06 AM
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You might want to try a find a RS Double-bow tie antenna. They have been discontinued but check around most RS's have one or two somewhere. It is less than $20 and from your location you should be able to pick up all of the local digital stations w/o a preamp.
==========

I tried three different kind of rabbit ears (lable on it say it has amp. and HDTV ready), from Radio Shack, Best Buy, etc.

And none of them are able to pick up even the VHF boardcast at my locations to my surprise.
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post #69 of 11355 Old 06-25-2002, 05:16 AM
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OK all you Greensboro folks!

I just found this thread. My question concerns TWC. I was on the wait list for months - I finally got the box a few weeks ago. The amazing thing is that only PBS and HBO are broadcasting HD - the local stations haven't signed on to TWC yet for me to receive their signals. I have called WFMY and WXII about this. WFMY says it is in talks with TWC and WXII gave me the runaround. My set is HD ready, so the cable box seemed to be the way to go. All of you seem to have an antenna or dish - am I waiting on something that may never happen (local HD over cable)? Thanks for letting me vent!

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post #70 of 11355 Old 06-25-2002, 05:33 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by PamW
OK all you Greensboro folks!

I just found this thread. My question concerns TWC. I was on the wait list for months - I finally got the box a few weeks ago. The amazing thing is that only PBS and HBO are broadcasting HD - the local stations haven't signed on to TWC yet for me to receive their signals.

Hi Pam and welcome! I wish the news were better.

I am the transmitter supervisor at channel 8 so here is what I know. About a month or so ago I spoke with the head tech at the head-end in Greensboro on a different subject, but DTV came up and I asked him what they were doing for OTA DTV. He said they had not decided yet. Of course, they can't put any signal up without a carriage consent agreement. The DTV signals are considered as a different station to cable so it can be a long process when lawyers get involved!

My best guess and it is a GUESS ONLY, is that it will be awhile before OTA gets on cable because not all locals are on the air yet, channel 2 and channel 12 are not on the air all the time between 6am and 12 midnight (channel 2 from 12:30pm to 1:30pm, 8pm to 11:30pm; channel 12 from 4pm to sometime after midnight) the other stations transmitting SD 24/7 only. It doesn't add any value for TWC since they would have to open up additional channels for these stations and at the moment, you really don't get much more than what you see currently. Now, again, that is a WA GUESS on my part. Remember, there are NO FCC rules at this time requiring cable companies to carry OTA DTV. And as long as the local OTA DTVs offer the limited amount of service/programming, unfortunately I would suggest you consider an outside antenna if you want your DTV.

Sorry for the downbeat tone.

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post #71 of 11355 Old 06-25-2002, 08:30 AM
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PamW, I just found this board myself, and these people are full of info. I have an HD box from TWC also. I was on waiting list since last July, and finally got it this past January. And it turn out the cable box has dead connectors in the back, and have it replace a month later.

I have admire Channel 501 (demo loop) from time to time. So nice. Now I get to catch a glimse of CBS via a semi working antenna. I have to say, I can't wait! Only few more years I hope.
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post #72 of 11355 Old 06-25-2002, 01:26 PM
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The RS double-bowtie does not look at all like rabbit ears. They are usually not even on display. Ask the salesman to look in the catalog for UHF antennas. It is a copper screen with 2 bowtie elements attached. It is actually quite ugly but works extremely well. Last I checked the RS at Colonial Mall had one in stock. The salesman didn't even know it existed! If I can pull in Raleigh stations here in Elon, you should have no problem with the triad stations.

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post #73 of 11355 Old 06-26-2002, 04:45 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by foxeng

Now, on a more happy note, is there any interest in starting a DTV users group in the Triad? I would be up for such a thing. I do not have a space to host it, but maybe start out at a restaurant? [/b]

Yes, I would.
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post #74 of 11355 Old 06-26-2002, 05:31 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Jim Hewett


Yes, I would.

This is a bit premature, but I will let dubbadon give the full announcement.

There is a triad group being formed with webpage and mail lists. When this is all setup, Don will announce all the particulars.

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post #75 of 11355 Old 06-26-2002, 05:49 PM
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Hey guys,

Just screwing around and noticed that WDRL-UPN24(41DT) is broadcasting. I'm having some trouble locking on consistently, since I believe they are at low power. I also have a problem with this storm because I have a 6000 which is a fine unit save one weakness, reliance on a sat signal for it to work!!!!!!!! You might want to check it out! Danville VA.

I would have some interest in a group depending on the schedule.

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post #76 of 11355 Old 06-26-2002, 07:27 PM
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Count me in, too!

Thanks for the info on the TWC foxeng. Do I also need a box to go with the bow tie antenna for my cable ready HDTV? Or can I somehow transmorgrify the TWC box as a decoder???

Mind you, I am female, and only somewhat technically competent - however, I can design a room with perfect colors in a snap! ; )

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post #77 of 11355 Old 06-26-2002, 07:30 PM
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OOOH, that sounded sexist - from me! Anyhow, I can follow directions with great efficiency - I cannot, however, always figure out a technical situation when one arises. Is that better?

Pam
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post #78 of 11355 Old 06-27-2002, 04:41 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by PamW
Count me in, too!

Thanks for the info on the TWC foxeng. Do I also need a box to go with the bow tie antenna for my cable ready HDTV? Or can I somehow transmorgrify the TWC box as a decoder???

It depends on the type of box TWC is using. I am not familiar with their boxes. If they are using 8VSB then you should be able to connect an antenna to it, providing you can tell it to use off air channels and not cable channels (they are not the same). If they are using a QAM protocol, then either use it to view HBO, Showtime, HDNet, whatever they offer and that is about all or give it back and/or get either a OTA only box or a combo OTA sat box and cut cable loose all together and get you HDTV OTA and sat. Or live with what you have.

Quote:


Mind you, I am female, and only somewhat technically competent - however, I can design a room with perfect colors in a snap! ; )

HHHMM Our technical expertise and your decorating expertise, I see someone with THE ULTIMATE home theater!

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post #79 of 11355 Old 06-27-2002, 05:35 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by zmeister
Hey guys,

Just screwing around and noticed that WDRL-UPN24(41DT) is broadcasting. I'm having some trouble locking on consistently, since I believe they are at low power. I also have a problem with this storm because I have a 6000 which is a fine unit save one weakness, reliance on a sat signal for it to work!!!!!!!! You might want to check it out! Danville VA.

You may be one of the few people who can tell it is there. I just checked the FCC data base and they are at low power 7000 watts at 275 ft. They are authorized 50,000 watts around 320 feet. (are they on a mountain with such low antenna heights?) They also appear to be directional to the North, so I suspect those of us in Greensboro would not be able to pick them up at reduced power unless you are on the north side with some height yourself. I will try them later today and see if I can see them, but I doubt it.

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post #80 of 11355 Old 06-27-2002, 10:16 AM
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hey foweng,

I'll check out the box later today and if it works, I'll let you know!

BTW, I am having a ball designing our HT - to - be. Demolition/construction will begin in the next few weeks!!!

Pam
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post #81 of 11355 Old 06-27-2002, 05:18 PM
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Just to report that I was able to lock it in tonite and watch a little WWF on UPN24(41). Signal strength ranged from 68-73. I'm not sure I will be able to get it on a regular basis but a good sign since they are currently at low power!

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post #82 of 11355 Old 06-27-2002, 05:48 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by zmeister
Just to report that I was able to lock it in tonite and watch a little WWF on UPN24(41). Signal strength ranged from 68-73. I'm not sure I will be able to get it on a regular basis but a good sign since they are currently at low power!

I talked to dubbadon this afternoon and found out that WRDL's tower is located in Caswell County and it isn't very tall (300ft). It does sit on a high spot, but it has no real coverage area because of another station (he and I do not know which station that might be, I suspect a station in VA since the tower is in NC). Being in Elon, you are closer than I am and that may be the reason you are seeing it and I am not. Others mileage may vary.

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post #83 of 11355 Old 06-27-2002, 06:22 PM
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Can any of y'all recommend a good antenna outfit? My preamp got fried in the storm today. I can't get up on my roof, so I have to call in a pro.
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post #84 of 11355 Old 06-27-2002, 07:14 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by roland6465
Can any of y'all recommend a good antenna outfit? My preamp got fried in the storm today. I can't get up on my roof, so I have to call in a pro.

I like the Channel Master 4228 with a CM 7775 pre-amp.

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post #85 of 11355 Old 06-28-2002, 02:21 AM
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Sorry, foxeng.....I meant somebody to get up and replace the preamp. NOW A/V did the first setup, but They kinda forgot to bill me for the now fried amp, and I'm afraid they'll remember if I call them out again.
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post #86 of 11355 Old 06-28-2002, 02:24 PM
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Just a quick note to let you know that on Monday, WGHP is to get a firmware update for our encoder. It doesn't fix the annoying picture freeze that you see once an hour, but it does fix a closed captioning problem that had to get fixed to meet an FCC mandated deadline of Monday for all DTV stations to be passing closed captioning. I hope nothing else breaks when this new firmware is installed. It is to arrive Monday morning FedEx so keep your fingers crossed!

If you see anything, let me know here or give me a call at the station at 821-1144.

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post #87 of 11355 Old 07-01-2002, 09:55 AM
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Just a quick update to let you know that the new encoder firmware update has been made on WGHP-DT and we are passing closed captioning now. So far everything seems to be working as best I can tell. If you see something funny, let me know here or at work at 821-1144 or clayno@wghp.com.

Best I can tell is is EIA-708A CC1 encoding.

Charles Layno
Transmitter Supervisor
FOX8 WGHP/WGHP-DT

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post #88 of 11355 Old 07-02-2002, 03:53 PM
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Of those of you who get WGHP-DT, is your closed captioning form us working? On the Samsung receivers we have at the station and I have here, it is very sporadic, even though my pro DTV receiver at the transmitter is showing closed captioning. I would like to know if the populous is receiving as we try and debug this latest snag on the road we call DTV.

Charles Layno
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post #89 of 11355 Old 07-07-2002, 01:52 PM
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this is for Don (who post his "user report" at www.triad-hdtv.org).....

You menton you get the following stations.....
WDBJ-DT 18, WXLV-DT 29, WUNL-DT 32, WUPN-DT 33

what about the local ones? You have any luck?

- Talos
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post #90 of 11355 Old 07-07-2002, 02:34 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by talosman
this is for Don (who post his "user report" at www.triad-hdtv.org).....

You menton you get the following stations.....
WDBJ-DT 18, WXLV-DT 29, WUNL-DT 32, WUPN-DT 33

what about the local ones? You have any luck?

- Talos

I think that is ALL he gets of the locals, WXLV-DT, WUNL-DT, and WUPN-DT.


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