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post #11311 of 11364 Old 08-28-2014, 06:19 AM
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One thing I am REALLY looking forward to is uncompressed HD with OTA. For a short while at my old house, I had unhooked from satellite and was using an antenna out in my front yard. I couldn't pick up very many stations, but what I could pick up....oh man...the picture quality was brilliant! The colors were so bright and the detail just seemed to put the compressed HD picture on satellite to shame! Unfortunately, that house was kind of built on a piece of land that was on the side of a gigantic hill, surround by thick woods on one side. So, there was only one direction that I could point the antenna to. I could pick up FOX, WFMY (that would go off and on), and WSLS - that was about it. Hopefully my cord cutting adventures with my new house in Oak Ridge will be a little more successful than that, but I'm looking forward to a much better picture on my TV.
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post #11312 of 11364 Old 08-28-2014, 07:29 AM
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Exactly! I do remember seeing most of those Roanoke channels in the yellow, which according to TVfool's legend, means those stations are doable with an attic antenna. If I thought I could pick those up just fine installing in the attic, I would do. Only thing is, if I install in the attic and then reception is not as good as I had hoped, then I'd hate to invest in more time to take the antenna down and to install on the roof. So, I'm definitely thinking outdoor installation all the way.

Unless I'm getting this report mixed up with one of the other ones from the other sites I've visited, the stations that I probably wouldn't be able to pick up would be those in Charlotte or a bit further south. I'd have to look at the report again to see which stations it said I pretty much had no chance to reach.

So, stupid question, but when you guys say to post my report, are you talking about posting the report on the TVFool's website or posting it here? Sorry to ask. I haven't had coffee yet this morning, lol!
Certainly you could post the URL of your report here. think it would help.The report does not included any address, so you will not be revealing where exactly you live.
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post #11313 of 11364 Old 08-28-2014, 08:05 AM
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Ah, so it's the opposite of what I was thinking. The dish seems to be pointing directly through the trees.
DirecTV and Dish use what is called "offset" dishes, meaning the focal point is not straight on but at an angle. I don't remember exactly, but I somehow remember I heard the DirecTV dishes are around 45 degrees so you would need to point the center of the dish about 45 degrees lower than it actually is because of the angle that the dish reflects the signal to hit the LNBs on the arm of the dish.

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post #11314 of 11364 Old 08-28-2014, 08:08 AM
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Not to start anything again, but I hope that the NFL games on WGHP are accurate in the guide unlike the MLB fiasco earlier this year.
Haters just have to hate!

Seriously though, FOX seems to be better with the NFL games than MLB. That isn't to say we don't get switched sometimes because we do, but if we do we find out on Wednesday or Thursday before Sunday at the latest. The EPG services want EPG data 2 weeks ahead of time so sometimes the updates don't make it. And that is just the way it works.

The issue with the EPG companies is if it is something for a network, they seem to NEVER have a problem updating if they have at least 24 hours. For an individual station, we can go fly a kite as far as they are concerned.

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post #11315 of 11364 Old 08-28-2014, 11:19 AM
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Ah yes!!! Thank you so, very much Foxeng! I think I'm going to be OK where I live. I don't live in a hole, but I do have some tall trees surrounding the house, mainly on the backside. However, I'm thinking where I would have to turn the antenna to pick up Roanoke would be away from the trees anyway, so I should be OK with that. I've been able to pick up quite a few local channels on a broken old pair of rabbit ears, so I'm confident that I shouldn't have any problems with a roof top antenna.
So do you just have yours mounted on a 5 foot mast? How do you ground your antenna?
If you still need a rotor, Solid Signal has a daily deal on Antennacraft rotor for $57, Thursday 8/28 only. Don't know if this is the most durable brand now available, but should be about the same as the Radioshack.
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post #11316 of 11364 Old 08-28-2014, 01:57 PM
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If you still need a rotor, Solid Signal has a daily deal on Antennacraft rotor for $57, Thursday 8/28 only. Don't know if this is the most durable brand now available, but should be about the same as the Radioshack.
I was thinking of going with a Channel Master rotor, but I haven't made my decision yet. Let me check out this rotor you've found for me! Thanks Tyler!
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post #11317 of 11364 Old 08-28-2014, 04:15 PM
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WRAY has added another subchannel, 30-4, that carries some kind of programming from a satellite network called ABN. The shows are call-in shows, but they seem to be taped programs from three years ago. WLXI in Greensboro might be showing the same stuff.
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post #11318 of 11364 Old 08-28-2014, 06:07 PM
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WRAY has added another subchannel, 30-4, that carries some kind of programming from a satellite network called ABN. The shows are call-in shows, but they seem to be taped ped programs from three years ago. WLXI in Greensboro might be showing the same stuff.
Yup
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post #11319 of 11364 Old 08-29-2014, 10:47 AM
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I was thinking of going with a Channel Master rotor, but I haven't made my decision yet. Let me check out this rotor you've found for me! Thanks Tyler!
I have come to no real conclusion as to what you might be able to do.......but I'm sure you will need a rotor to accomplish your stated mission.. That, as you will need a pretty directional high bandVHF/UHF antenna to do it, and pointing such an antenna in one direction will not get you all you want..
You probably need to stop wanting a second PBS station.. I agree with FOXENG that WBRA will have real reception issues for you.. The UNC network will probably have to suffice.
Two CBS affiliates are very possible, WFMY and WDBJ.. And, WXII and WSLS for NBC.
You will need the High Band VHF antenna for a second ABC affiliate. WSET is the most likely candidate, but WTVD on channel 11 might actually be more practical, and neither would be a great prospect. It all depends on how the ground opens away from your location.
I think you should make or acquire an inexpensive antenna, maybe the old rabbit ears, and get it outside and point sort of north, and see what might be there. You'll need some cable, but you will need that anyway. If you mounted the antenna on a length of cheep plastic pipe, you could get a better idea (a calm day project). I'd explore some, before I committed to any plan.
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post #11320 of 11364 Old 08-29-2014, 12:05 PM
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I have come to no real conclusion as to what you might be able to do.......but I'm sure you will need a rotor to accomplish your stated mission.. That, as you will need a pretty directional high bandVHF/UHF antenna to do it, and pointing such an antenna in one direction will not get you all you want..
You probably need to stop wanting a second PBS station.. I agree with FOXENG that WBRA will have real reception issues for you.. The UNC network will probably have to suffice.
Two CBS affiliates are very possible, WFMY and WDBJ.. And, WXII and WSLS for NBC.
You will need the High Band VHF antenna for a second ABC affiliate. WSET is the most likely candidate, but WTVD on channel 11 might actually be more practical, and neither would be a great prospect. It all depends on how the ground opens away from your location.
I think you should make or acquire an inexpensive antenna, maybe the old rabbit ears, and get it outside and point sort of north, and see what might be there. You'll need some cable, but you will need that anyway. If you mounted the antenna on a length of cheep plastic pipe, you could get a better idea (a calm day project). I'd explore some, before I committed to any plan.
He should probably consider a Winegard 7698 HiVHF/UHF Fringe Combo Antenna, and a Kitztech 100 preamp with adjustable gain. And an FM Trap. Or an Antennacraft HBU-55 similar antenna, but the Winegard has the direct coax input connection.
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post #11321 of 11364 Old 08-29-2014, 01:14 PM
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He should probably consider a Winegard 7698 HiVHF/UHF Fringe Combo Antenna, and a Kitztech 100 preamp with adjustable gain. And an FM Trap. Or an Antennacraft HBU-55 similar antenna, but the Winegard has the direct coax input connection.
May be. I Think some reasonable expectations should be formed first, if possible. You may have written a good prescription, or, maybe another approach might develop..
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post #11322 of 11364 Old 09-03-2014, 12:40 PM
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I have come to no real conclusion as to what you might be able to do.......but I'm sure you will need a rotor to accomplish your stated mission.. That, as you will need a pretty directional high bandVHF/UHF antenna to do it, and pointing such an antenna in one direction will not get you all you want..
You probably need to stop wanting a second PBS station.. I agree with FOXENG that WBRA will have real reception issues for you.. The UNC network will probably have to suffice.
Two CBS affiliates are very possible, WFMY and WDBJ.. And, WXII and WSLS for NBC.
You will need the High Band VHF antenna for a second ABC affiliate. WSET is the most likely candidate, but WTVD on channel 11 might actually be more practical, and neither would be a great prospect. It all depends on how the ground opens away from your location.
I think you should make or acquire an inexpensive antenna, maybe the old rabbit ears, and get it outside and point sort of north, and see what might be there. You'll need some cable, but you will need that anyway. If you mounted the antenna on a length of cheep plastic pipe, you could get a better idea (a calm day project). I'd explore some, before I committed to any plan.
Honestly, the only VA channels I'm really concerned about is the FOX channel (for the Redskins games) and possibly WSLS (because I really enjoyed their news while living in VA.) Other than that, the rest of the channels can be NC channels. Not looking for two different PBS channels. Whatever is local will suffice.
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post #11323 of 11364 Old 09-03-2014, 12:44 PM
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He should probably consider a Winegard 7698 HiVHF/UHF Fringe Combo Antenna, and a Kitztech 100 preamp with adjustable gain. And an FM Trap. Or an Antennacraft HBU-55 similar antenna, but the Winegard has the direct coax input connection.
This is what I was looking for. I was already considering a directional antenna that can do both VHF and UHF. I was really trying to see what type of "testimonials" people would post so I'd have an idea as to the quality of the product and the setups. I don't want to put in $150 for the wrong antenna. I already know I'd need the most powerful, fringe antenna I can possibly get. At the same time, I also wanted to make sure I didn't buy more than I needed to have.
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post #11324 of 11364 Old 09-03-2014, 12:46 PM
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May be. I Think some reasonable expectations should be formed first, if possible. You may have written a good prescription, or, maybe another approach might develop..
This is why I came here, Difuse. So I can better understand what would be a reasonable expectation and what is asking too much. The only thing I'm really asking for is to be able to reach the VA Fox station from Oak Ridge.
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post #11325 of 11364 Old 09-03-2014, 03:13 PM
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This is why I came here, Difuse. So I can better understand what would be a reasonable expectation and what is asking too much. The only thing I'm really asking for is to be able to reach the VA Fox station from Oak Ridge.
I suppose, in that case, there would be no reason for involving VHF, as the only such stations you MIGHT receive would be a second ABC and PBS service. The Roanoke Fox (WFXR) affiliate is on channel 17, and WSLS is on channel 30. There would be a need for a very directional UHF antenna, as WXII is on channel 31, and could cause a little problem if too much of its signal comes in with channel 30. . WNCN in the Raleigh market is on channel 17, as is WUNE in Linville. Either could cause problems at odd times during darkness. So.... a very directional antenna would be required to accomplish what you want.. That is where I would look . .
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post #11326 of 11364 Old 09-03-2014, 06:05 PM
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^^If Roanoke VHF is not needed, then a good directional UHF antenna would be the 91XG from Antennas Direct, or the Solid Signal version. Probably the best choice for distant UHF.
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post #11327 of 11364 Old 09-04-2014, 03:03 AM
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^^If Roanoke VHF is not needed, then a good directional UHF antenna would be the 91XG from Antennas Direct, or the Solid Signal version. Probably the best choice for distant UHF.
Or a Channel Master 3023, which might be a bit better on channel 17
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post #11328 of 11364 Old 09-04-2014, 10:28 AM
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Or a Channel Master 3023, which might be a bit better on channel 17
Yes indeed, as long as you refer to the original American made version, not the newer Chinese version which is smaller. The original CM-3023 is still available through Summit Source and eBay, I believe. I use an alternate model, the CM-4248 UHF antenna with the diamond shaped elements, and it performs very well. Unfortunately, Channel Master was bought out by PCT and moved to Arizona. They used to make very good antennas at their factory in Smithfield, NC east of Raleigh. Now they are subcontracted to China. But PCT does make very good distribution amps for the current Channel Master company. But just not a fan of most of their newer antennas.
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post #11329 of 11364 Old 09-04-2014, 10:46 AM
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Yes indeed, as long as you refer to the original American made version, not the newer Chinese version which is smaller. The original CM-3023 is still available through Summit Source and eBay, I believe. I use an alternate model, the CM-4248 UHF antenna with the diamond shaped elements, and it performs very well. Unfortunately, Channel Master was bought out by PCT and moved to Arizona. They used to make very good antennas at their factory in Smithfield, NC east of Raleigh. Now they are subcontracted to China. But PCT does make very good distribution amps for the current Channel Master company. But just not a fan of most of their newer antennas.
I understand.
As you mentioned amplifiers, I'm about convinced that a preamp may not be the best idea in the situation we're discussing. Co-channel and adjacent channel problems might be exaggerated by one.
Maybe a final distribution amp would be good, though.
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post #11330 of 11364 Old 09-04-2014, 02:21 PM
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I understand.
As you mentioned amplifiers, I'm about convinced that a preamp may not be the best idea in the situation we're discussing. Co-channel and adjacent channel problems might be exaggerated by one.
Maybe a final distribution amp would be good, though.
Well for those amplifier concerns, those Channel Master distribution amps by PCT that I mentioned above are a very good choice if an amp is needed. They are designed to be resistant to overload and tolerant of a mix of strong and weak signals.
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post #11331 of 11364 Old 09-05-2014, 05:00 AM
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Understood on the pre-amps. Wouldn't a directional antenna help to combat the issue with one channel overloading another? Reason why I ask is that I'm going on the premise that you can pinpoint the exact degrees/location you'd want the antenna to face. I guess it all depends upon how much of an issue it would really be.
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post #11332 of 11364 Old 09-05-2014, 05:57 PM
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Understood on the pre-amps. Wouldn't a directional antenna help to combat the issue with one channel overloading another? Reason why I ask is that I'm going on the premise that you can pinpoint the exact degrees/location you'd want the antenna to face. I guess it all depends upon how much of an issue it would really be.
For UHF fringe, look at 91XG from Antennas Direct, or the Solid Signal version. Or 9095HD from Winegard, or MXU-59 from Antennacraft. The original Channel Master 3023 may still be available from Summit Source or eBay, but I am not sure about that. And you would want the original, larger version, not the new smaller model.
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post #11333 of 11364 Old 09-05-2014, 05:59 PM
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One thing I am REALLY looking forward to is uncompressed HD with OTA..
Hate to pop yer bubble there gman...but OTA is compressed HD..Just not "modified" "changed" "re-encoded" etc like
most other sources (cable, satellite) that consumers see. In general, the only place (in general) you will see "uncompressed HD" is in a remote truck or production studio where a HD camera is being viewed on a professional monitor..something the broadcasters here see daily.

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post #11334 of 11364 Old 09-06-2014, 10:06 PM
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Hate to pop yer bubble there gman...but OTA is compressed HD..Just not "modified" "changed" "re-encoded" etc like
most other sources (cable, satellite) that consumers see. In general, the only place (in general) you will see "uncompressed HD" is in a remote truck or production studio where a HD camera is being viewed on a professional monitor..something the broadcasters here see daily.
Yeah. Look at WTVD and WUVC - they both run two HD channels on the same signal. The Directv feeds of Univision and Unimas look better than the HD feeds on WUVC and WTVD really starves the LWN HD channel on 11-2, making it blocky during motion. A station with no or one bandwidth-starved SD subchannel will look great. Those are few and far between. Is the HD quality BAD on any of the locals? Not really. Certainly a soccer game on 40-2 Unimas HD is very watchable, especially if you're OTA only and it's free.

On the other hand - In general, the Sunday Ticket feeds of games look noticeably better than the local feed or local OTA of games, depending on the specific affiliate. Some locals screw up audio, have blocky motion, etc while the Sunday Ticket feeds are crisp and virtually always 5.1 sound. I hate paying for something that forces me to watch something that is inferior quality.
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post #11335 of 11364 Old 09-07-2014, 01:48 AM
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Hate to pop yer bubble there gman...but OTA is compressed HD..Just not "modified" "changed" "re-encoded" etc like
most other sources (cable, satellite) that consumers see. In general, the only place (in general) you will see "uncompressed HD" is in a remote truck or production studio where a HD camera is being viewed on a professional monitor..something the broadcasters here see daily.
I would use the "olive oil" theory.
Load a hundred gallons of olive oil on a ship at Cyprus and begin shipment to the US.
How many changes in containers and how long the trip takes will at least partially determine the quality and quantity of oil on arrival to final destination,
OTA will usually use fewer containers and make a shorter trip than some other delivery means, and produce a more satisfactory end result.
Nothing, though, will beat fresh off the press in Cyprus,
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post #11336 of 11364 Old 09-07-2014, 07:48 AM
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I would use the "olive oil" theory.
Load a hundred gallons of olive oil on a ship at Cyprus and begin shipment to the US.
How many changes in containers and how long the trip takes will at least partially determine the quality and quantity of oil on arrival to final destination,
OTA will usually use fewer containers and make a shorter trip than some other delivery means, and produce a more satisfactory end result.
Nothing, though, will beat fresh off the press in Cyprus,
Hey, California makes some good olive oil now. Buy American!
On a more serious note, though, doesn't the available bandwidth make a difference?
If you have to pass through a channel as narrow as the Straits of Bosporus, you're going to have to be careful about how big the ships are and how many you try to send through at the same time.
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post #11337 of 11364 Old 09-07-2014, 09:37 AM
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Hey, California makes some good olive oil now. Buy American!
On a more serious note, though, doesn't the available bandwidth make a difference?
If you have to pass through a channel as narrow as the Straits of Bosporus, you're going to have to be careful about how big the ships are and how many you try to send through at the same time.
The container is what the program, or oil, is carried in. One of the characteristics of a container is size, somewhat analogous to bandwidth.
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post #11338 of 11364 Old 09-07-2014, 10:23 AM
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The container is what the program, or oil, is carried in. One of the characteristics of a container is size, somewhat analogous to bandwidth.
That's a good analogy. I was thinking of the waterway as being analogous to a RF channel. (Each station has 6MHz to work with, right?) And the ships moving through the waterway would be the various programming feeds carried by the signal. I guess the waterway is divided into shipping lanes (subchannels?).

So, now tell me this. Why are satellite companies so reluctant to carry the subchannels of the local OTA channels? Do the satellite companies have waterways that are just too narrow or too shallow? Are they afraid that something will run aground?
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post #11339 of 11364 Old 09-07-2014, 11:24 AM
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Purely a bandwidth issue. The "channel" isn't wide enough for all those boats!


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post #11340 of 11364 Old 09-07-2014, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post
That's a good analogy. I was thinking of the waterway as being analogous to a RF channel. (Each station has 6MHz to work with, right?) And the ships moving through the waterway would be the various programming feeds carried by the signal. I guess the waterway is divided into shipping lanes (subchannels?).

So, now tell me this. Why are satellite companies so reluctant to carry the subchannels of the local OTA channels? Do the satellite companies have waterways that are just too narrow or too shallow? Are they afraid that something will run aground?
You got me. I've never dealt with them. But I could guess they have a reluctance to add new containers to their delivery routes. Serving the subchannels would require separate containers for each.
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