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post #11431 of 11460 Old 01-03-2015, 03:36 PM
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Just noticed that Grit TV is on WXLV 45.3.
It is in an odd picture ratio, at least the older material is.. It is different from that on WBTV, which is fine as I have the picture set for the other stations. I'm not complaining, as there is no reason I should ever tune in WXLV..
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post #11432 of 11460 Old 01-04-2015, 08:51 PM
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It is in an odd picture ratio, at least the older material is.. It is different from that on WBTV, which is fine as I have the picture set for the other stations. I'm not complaining, as there is no reason I should ever tune in WXLV..
Do you ever watch ABC or can you get WSOC?
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post #11433 of 11460 Old 01-05-2015, 11:46 AM
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Do you ever watch ABC or can you get WSOC?
No, and, yes.
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post #11434 of 11460 Old 01-07-2015, 05:20 PM
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Noticed that Thistv was added to WGHP 8.3 today and also now have WFMY 2.3, wonder if Justicetv will be added to WFMY. Alot of sister channels to Wfmy will be getting Justicetv this month. Was hoping for Cozi. Anyone else notice the changes? Guess I am glad for more channels all the same..
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post #11435 of 11460 Old 01-07-2015, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Rodwalls View Post
Noticed that Thistv was added to WGHP 8.3 today and also now have WFMY 2.3, wonder if Justicetv will be added to WFMY. Alot of sister channels to Wfmy will be getting Justicetv this month. Was hoping for Cozi. Anyone else notice the changes? Guess I am glad for more channels all the same..
Yes. I am very pleased to see This TV return to our area on WGHP 8.3.
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post #11436 of 11460 Old 01-09-2015, 09:23 AM
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Yes, we added This TV on Tuesday afternoon at 2:30pm (it is co-owned by our parent company). This has been in the works for almost a year. I don't know when or if This8.3 is to be added to the local cable companies. I do know that it is on Windstream in Lexington now (I don't know the channel number). I would assume (not involved with that part of it so I don't know who or where we are in this) TWC and others would add it sometime in the future. And to answer the question before it is asked, we hardly took any bandwidth from the HD at all. That was a requirement from local management. We did cut the AntennaTV bandwidth some (about 10%) and used up the remainder of null bandwidth and are using the stat mux of the FOX splicer instead in the encoders to keep the HD PQ. We also installed new encoders with the latest encoding technologies. Those have been on line for over a month and we reconfigured the bandwidth at that time so all we had to do was turn on the stream Tuesday. Some of you spotted our setup and testing a month a go and commented here. As you also noted, the stream went away after the testing but the bandwidth carve out remained so you have been seeing the results of it even though there was no stream on air, just null packets. Equipment began to arrive in September with the This TV receiver and the last piece arrived on Dec 30. At this point we are not airing local commercials, but that will start sometime in the not too distant future. As you can see, it is in 16:9 AR with black bars on the side (same as TV8.2/Antenna TV) since This TV is sent 4:3 SD. There is no 16:9 feed of it. Not sure when the EPG data is to start. I know Gracenote has been notified so it is in the works.

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Last edited by foxeng; 01-09-2015 at 09:32 AM.
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post #11437 of 11460 Old 01-09-2015, 12:09 PM
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Yes, we added This TV on Tuesday afternoon at 2:30pm (it is co-owned by our parent company). This has been in the works for almost a year. I don't know when or if This8.3 is to be added to the local cable companies. I do know that it is on Windstream in Lexington now (I don't know the channel number). I would assume (not involved with that part of it so I don't know who or where we are in this) TWC and others would add it sometime in the future. And to answer the question before it is asked, we hardly took any bandwidth from the HD at all. That was a requirement from local management. We did cut the AntennaTV bandwidth some (about 10%) and used up the remainder of null bandwidth and are using the stat mux of the FOX splicer instead in the encoders to keep the HD PQ. We also installed new encoders with the latest encoding technologies. Those have been on line for over a month and we reconfigured the bandwidth at that time so all we had to do was turn on the stream Tuesday. Some of you spotted our setup and testing a month a go and commented here. As you also noted, the stream went away after the testing but the bandwidth carve out remained so you have been seeing the results of it even though there was no stream on air, just null packets. Equipment began to arrive in September with the This TV receiver and the last piece arrived on Dec 30. At this point we are not airing local commercials, but that will start sometime in the not too distant future. As you can see, it is in 16:9 AR with black bars on the side (same as TV8.2/Antenna TV) since This TV is sent 4:3 SD. There is no 16:9 feed of it. Not sure when the EPG data is to start. I know Gracenote has been notified so it is in the works.
Thanks for the update.
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post #11438 of 11460 Old 01-09-2015, 06:26 PM
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... We did cut the AntennaTV bandwidth some ...
Uh-oh. I hope that doesn't mean that Larry will have to lose one of the two Darryls.
Great new lineup for AntennaTV, by the way.
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post #11439 of 11460 Old 01-09-2015, 06:48 PM
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Uh-oh. I hope that doesn't mean that Larry will have to lose one of the two Darryls.
Great new lineup for AntennaTV, by the way.
The way we are doing it, I can't really tell any difference. The new encoders helped a lot. We weren't running that much bandwidth on Antenna TV to start with so that left more than enough buffer for the HD stream. Between the null packets and taking about 1/4 mips from Antenna TV, it seems to all be working. Didn't even take that much for the HD.

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post #11440 of 11460 Old 01-09-2015, 08:48 PM
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Smile Thanks for THIS.

Thank you foxeng! Appreciate the hard work.
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post #11441 of 11460 Old 01-10-2015, 07:22 PM
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Now you guys will have to get Cozi TV, Movies! Grit TV, and Escape to catch us down east!
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post #11442 of 11460 Old 01-10-2015, 08:04 PM
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We have Grit TV.

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post #11443 of 11460 Old 01-11-2015, 06:48 AM
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We have Grit TV.
Out of Charlotte? I see Movies! is on WJZY also.
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post #11444 of 11460 Old 01-11-2015, 07:20 AM
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It's on WXLV 45-3.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #11445 of 11460 Old 01-11-2015, 08:53 AM
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It's on WXLV 45-3.

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I see now. I went back and read everything. Shows how much I have been paying attention here lately.
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post #11446 of 11460 Old 01-12-2015, 10:01 AM
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Yes, we added This TV on Tuesday afternoon at 2:30pm (it is co-owned by our parent company). This has been in the works for almost a year. I don't know when or if This8.3 is to be added to the local cable companies. I do know that it is on Windstream in Lexington now (I don't know the channel number). I would assume (not involved with that part of it so I don't know who or where we are in this) TWC and others would add it sometime in the future. And to answer the question before it is asked, we hardly took any bandwidth from the HD at all. That was a requirement from local management. We did cut the AntennaTV bandwidth some (about 10%) and used up the remainder of null bandwidth and are using the stat mux of the FOX splicer instead in the encoders to keep the HD PQ. We also installed new encoders with the latest encoding technologies. Those have been on line for over a month and we reconfigured the bandwidth at that time so all we had to do was turn on the stream Tuesday. Some of you spotted our setup and testing a month a go and commented here. As you also noted, the stream went away after the testing but the bandwidth carve out remained so you have been seeing the results of it even though there was no stream on air, just null packets. Equipment began to arrive in September with the This TV receiver and the last piece arrived on Dec 30. At this point we are not airing local commercials, but that will start sometime in the not too distant future. As you can see, it is in 16:9 AR with black bars on the side (same as TV8.2/Antenna TV) since This TV is sent 4:3 SD. There is no 16:9 feed of it. Not sure when the EPG data is to start. I know Gracenote has been notified so it is in the works.
What is required to transmit 8.2 and 8.3 in such a way that a viewer could use their "wide" (or whatever) picture size selector and fill the screen with the picture, like at many other channel's broadcasts, rather than having the large black sidebars? And is this something they'll probably fix?
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post #11447 of 11460 Old 01-12-2015, 10:59 AM
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What is required to transmit 8.2 and 8.3 in such a way that a viewer could use their "wide" (or whatever) picture size selector and fill the screen with the picture, like at many other channel's broadcasts, rather than having the large black sidebars? And is this something they'll probably fix?
You should be able to use the Aspect button or Picture Size to zoom in the image to eliminate the black sidebars.
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post #11448 of 11460 Old 01-12-2015, 12:15 PM
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You should be able to use the Aspect button or Picture Size to zoom in the image to eliminate the black sidebars.
Yep, and, part of the image will be lost.
Transmitting a 4:3 image on a 16:9 stream might not be ideal, but, it solves a lot of other problems. Like how to handle a 16:9 commercial or other material that might be inserted into a 4:3 program. I think we are going to have to accept the side bars on older programming as past of establishing 16:9 screens as standard.
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post #11449 of 11460 Old 01-12-2015, 01:12 PM
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What is required to transmit 8.2 and 8.3 in such a way that a viewer could use their "wide" (or whatever) picture size selector and fill the screen with the picture, like at many other channel's broadcasts, rather than having the large black sidebars? And is this something they'll probably fix?
If you mean receive, then most TV's can "zoom" the picture up, and some can "stretch" the picture. Both have drawbacks. The zoomed picture cuts off the top and bottom of the picture loosing picture information. The stretched makes people look short and fat.

If you mean transmitted, we live in a 16:9 world now. We are a 16:9 house. We format all video for 16:9 meaning we use the entire picture with usable content. Subchannels have now just started to format for 16:9. Antenna TV and This TV has not done so yet. They transmit a 4:3 image and those programs that are 16:9 are "center cut" meaning the information beyond the 4:3 borders are just "chopped off" and discarded. In order to maintain the proper aspect ratio of the content coming to us, we add the black bars on the 4:3 image for 16:9 displays. This is becoming the normal practice with material that is 4:3 in nature within the industry.

Stations that do stretch the picture or zoom the picture usually hear about it from their views. There are more viewers who prefer to have the black bars than a distorted or cut pictures. So we choose to add the back bars. We ask those MVPD providers who carry our signals to respect the aspect ratio we broadcast.

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post #11450 of 11460 Old 01-14-2015, 07:42 AM
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If you mean receive, then most TV's can "zoom" the picture up, and some can "stretch" the picture. Both have drawbacks. The zoomed picture cuts off the top and bottom of the picture loosing picture information. The stretched makes people look short and fat.

If you mean transmitted, we live in a 16:9 world now. We are a 16:9 house. We format all video for 16:9 meaning we use the entire picture with usable content. Subchannels have now just started to format for 16:9. Antenna TV and This TV has not done so yet. They transmit a 4:3 image and those programs that are 16:9 are "center cut" meaning the information beyond the 4:3 borders are just "chopped off" and discarded. In order to maintain the proper aspect ratio of the content coming to us, we add the black bars on the 4:3 image for 16:9 displays. This is becoming the normal practice with material that is 4:3 in nature within the industry.

Stations that do stretch the picture or zoom the picture usually hear about it from their views. There are more viewers who prefer to have the black bars than a distorted or cut pictures. So we choose to add the back bars. We ask those MVPD providers who carry our signals to respect the aspect ratio we broadcast.
Yes, indeed I meant "transmit" as being on the TV station end... and I of course am familiar with the typical "zoom" and "stretch" (etc.) controls. What I'm seeing is a sometimes huge disparity from one show (or movie or "whatever") to another in what zooming/stretching options are shown on the selection screen - they vary not so much "tv to tv", but more "movie to movie". You'll have one movie that you can't get but within an inch or two of the top and lower borders of filling the screen w/out distortion, and another that fills the screen completely - without "short/fat" or "tall/slim" distortion, with no adjustment required on TV whatsoever. In other words, "the stuff is all over the map" these days, it seems, with little consistency, even on, say, Netflix streaming. Now, on regular antenna-based TV programming, most of the programs fill the screen perfectly w/no home adjustments needed. Despite former problems with "too fat" or "too tall" images, many folks don't want an itty-bitty picture ("postage stamp" picture, I call it) surrounded with big black borders that effectively turns their nice big TV screen into a variation of a 1960-TV-sized image. Additionally, many TV sets today, including some LCD and especially high quality plasma screens, which I know are still sold, though less frequently than LCD or whatever - suggest not running partial-screen (black borders) shows/movies more than 15% of "on" time, to keep from slightly damaging screens. (Not actually talking about "burn", but more about misbalanced usage due to partial screen images vs. black space.) These are some of the things I find disheartening about the "postage stamp" sized screen images, when you have an otherwise "huge" screen not fully utilized. Surely I'm not alone, here!...lol!... (BTW, thanks for your, and the other folks', replies to my queries, here.)
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post #11451 of 11460 Old 01-14-2015, 12:33 PM
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Yes, indeed I meant "transmit" as being on the TV station end... and I of course am familiar with the typical "zoom" and "stretch" (etc.) controls. What I'm seeing is a sometimes huge disparity from one show (or movie or "whatever") to another in what zooming/stretching options are shown on the selection screen - they vary not so much "tv to tv", but more "movie to movie". You'll have one movie that you can't get but within an inch or two of the top and lower borders of filling the screen w/out distortion, and another that fills the screen completely - without "short/fat" or "tall/slim" distortion, with no adjustment required on TV whatsoever. In other words, "the stuff is all over the map" these days, it seems, with little consistency, even on, say, Netflix streaming. Now, on regular antenna-based TV programming, most of the programs fill the screen perfectly w/no home adjustments needed. Despite former problems with "too fat" or "too tall" images, many folks don't want an itty-bitty picture ("postage stamp" picture, I call it) surrounded with big black borders that effectively turns their nice big TV screen into a variation of a 1960-TV-sized image. Additionally, many TV sets today, including some LCD and especially high quality plasma screens, which I know are still sold, though less frequently than LCD or whatever - suggest not running partial-screen (black borders) shows/movies more than 15% of "on" time, to keep from slightly damaging screens. (Not actually talking about "burn", but more about misbalanced usage due to partial screen images vs. black space.) These are some of the things I find disheartening about the "postage stamp" sized screen images, when you have an otherwise "huge" screen not fully utilized. Surely I'm not alone, here!...lol!... (BTW, thanks for your, and the other folks', replies to my queries, here.)
From this response, it sounds like you may be talking about the letterbox within the 4:3 area displayed on a 16:9 screen where you have black bars all around. In that case there is not much we can do. It is being transmitted to us as a letterbox image meaning it is formatted for a 4:3 screen with the bars on top and bottom to show the full horizontal image. We have no way to change that. Then when you add our black bars on the side to protect the 4:3 aspect on a 16:9 display, you will get the "black box" around the image. For whatever reason, AFD was only developed as an afterthought and only for HD programming, not SD programming so there is no way to change aspect ratio with an SD picture as you can with an HD one. I think the hope is 4:3 transmission will go completely away in 5 to 10 years and that will not be an issue anymore.

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post #11452 of 11460 Old 01-14-2015, 03:40 PM
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From this response, it sounds like you may be talking about the letterbox within the 4:3 area displayed on a 16:9 screen where you have black bars all around. In that case there is not much we can do. It is being transmitted to us as a letterbox image meaning it is formatted for a 4:3 screen with the bars on top and bottom to show the full horizontal image. We have no way to change that. Then when you add our black bars on the side to protect the 4:3 aspect on a 16:9 display, you will get the "black box" around the image. For whatever reason, AFD was only developed as an afterthought and only for HD programming, not SD programming so there is no way to change aspect ratio with an SD picture as you can with an HD one. I think the hope is 4:3 transmission will go completely away in 5 to 10 years and that will not be an issue anymore.
I think the hope is that 4:3 displays (TV's) will disappear., It is unlikely SD material will go away.
It is the users of 4:3 sets that have the biggest problem with the sort of letterboxing that WGHP does, although the posts also deal with 16:9 sets.
Once 4:3 sets are no longer a concern, stations will be able to transmit with only the side bars.
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post #11453 of 11460 Old Yesterday, 10:33 AM
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Yesterday afternoon at 3:00 p.m. I was scrolling through Time Warner's guide and saw that they had added Justice TV on 1255 and moved the WFMY weather sub-channel to 1256. Justice TV did not go on the air until 6:00 p.m. so I thought this was unusual for Timer Warner since they have not yet added 8.3 This TV or 45.3 GritTV to their line-up yet.
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post #11454 of 11460 Old Yesterday, 03:36 PM
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Yesterday afternoon at 3:00 p.m. I was scrolling through Time Warner's guide and saw that they had added Justice TV on 1255 and moved the WFMY weather sub-channel to 1256. Justice TV did not go on the air until 6:00 p.m. so I thought this was unusual for Timer Warner since they have not yet added 8.3 This TV or 45.3 GritTV to their line-up yet.
Makes sense that Justice TV would be numerically lower than Weather Nation, as WFMY moved the weather to 2.3, placing Justice at 2.2. The whole business as to what TW does with sub-channels, though, is not something I get concerned about. I'm quite satisfied not to deal with them.
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post #11455 of 11460 Old Yesterday, 03:42 PM
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Is there anyplace online that keeps an accurate/updated list of the channels and subchannels available in the Triad? With some of the additions in recent months, I've noticed that online TV listings haven't kept up with the changes.

On another topic, anyone in the market for a good, quality homemade HDTV antenna?
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post #11456 of 11460 Old Today, 07:06 AM
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Is there anyplace online that keeps an accurate/updated list of the channels and subchannels available in the Triad? With some of the additions in recent months, I've noticed that online TV listings haven't kept up with the changes.

On another topic, anyone in the market for a good, quality homemade HDTV antenna?

A buddy and I built a simple one a couple of years ago, utilizing the little V-configured spreaders (two rows of 4, horizontally opposed, w/each leg of every "v" approx. 7" long, I believe it was), and it worked better than anything I ever scrutinized or bought that was mass-produced. What are you offering, here, and at what price... I might be interested...
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post #11457 of 11460 Old Today, 05:46 PM
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There really is no ideal way to handle a mismatch between the aspect ratio of a TV screen and the aspect ratio that a program was designed for. You have to put up with stretching and distortion, or else you have to put up with not filling the screen. And sometimes you get the crummy postage stamp effect.

Back in the old days, before viewers became "sophisticated", theatrical movies were routinely forced to fit and fill a 4:3 TV screen via a pan-and-scan process that deliberately cut off portions of the image.

That's the way it was, and we liked it. (Then movie critics like Roger Ebert started promoting letterboxing and wound up getting people all riled up over nothing!!!)
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post #11458 of 11460 Old Today, 05:59 PM
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There really is no ideal way to handle a mismatch between the aspect ratio of a TV screen and the aspect ratio that a program was designed for. You have to put up with stretching and distortion, or else you have to put up with not filling the screen. And sometimes you get the crummy postage stamp effect.

Back in the old days, before viewers became "sophisticated", theatrical movies were routinely forced to fit and fill a 4:3 TV screen via a pan-and-scan process that deliberately cut off portions of the image.

That's the way it was, and we liked it. (Then movie critics like Roger Ebert started promoting letterboxing and wound up getting people all riled up over nothing!!!)
If memory serves correctly, some NBC shows were 16:9 before HD was even a thing. I remember my dad complaining about the "black bars" and missing some of the image. He still, to this day, doesn't understand. They just got the Comcast X1 system and it's HD-only. I have shown him that the same channel will have bars on the 4:3 TV and not on their HD TV. I have shown him that the channels that fill the screen on the 4:3 TV have bars on the side on the HD TV but still, he doesn't get it. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone could watch a stretched out, distorted program!

I don't live in NC anymore, but always liked that WGHP broadcast Antenna TV properly. I am glad that they do it with This, too. There are 3 subchannels here that do 16:9 SD - CW, Weather, and MHz Worldview. The 4:3 subchannels (Create, PBS World, and MeTV) are always in proper aspect ratio. That list is all of my subchannels. I miss the variety of Triad/Raleigh subchannels.
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Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post
If memory serves correctly, some NBC shows were 16:9 before HD was even a thing. I remember my dad complaining about the "black bars" and missing some of the image. He still, to this day, doesn't understand. They just got the Comcast X1 system and it's HD-only. I have shown him that the same channel will have bars on the 4:3 TV and not on their HD TV. I have shown him that the channels that fill the screen on the 4:3 TV have bars on the side on the HD TV but still, he doesn't get it. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone could watch a stretched out, distorted program!

I don't live in NC anymore, but always liked that WGHP broadcast Antenna TV properly. I am glad that they do it with This, too. There are 3 subchannels here that do 16:9 SD - CW, Weather, and MHz Worldview. The 4:3 subchannels (Create, PBS World, and MeTV) are always in proper aspect ratio. That list is all of my subchannels. I miss the variety of Triad/Raleigh subchannels.
What type of antenna reception can you receive in northwest Vermont? Is OTA a possibility?
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
What type of antenna reception can you receive in northwest Vermont? Is OTA a possibility?
I get all the locals I should, but there just aren't many compared to NC. I had over 50 in Burlington NC and 14-15 here north of Burlington, VT. Very basic US channels and CTV Montreal when the weather is right. They just don't have many subchannels. WCAX (CBS, Weather), WPTZ (NBC, CW, MeTV), CFCF (CTV -when it wants to), WVNY (ABC), WETK (PBS, PBS+, Create, PBS World), WFFF (Fox), WCFE (another PBS, MHz, and PBS World again). Very boring! I "moved" my Directv account to my brother's in Boston to at least get all of the major English and most of the major Spanish networks in HD and CW in HD. The VT locals don't even have DD 5.1, except in primetime. Cozi is a primary in Boston, so I have that, too, in upscaled HD.
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