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post #11701 of 11726 Old 01-30-2016, 09:09 AM
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Do you mean ATSC tuners? They better keep those or grabbing OTA will then require a "box" that I don't want to have to get.
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post #11702 of 11726 Old 01-30-2016, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Steven in NC View Post
Do you mean ATSC tuners? They better keep those or grabbing OTA will then require a "box" that I don't want to have to get.
By federal law (or FCC regulation), all TV sets sold in the U.S. must have built-in ATSC tuners.

He probably meant an analog tuner for analog cable TV signals. He may also have meant a QAM tuner for digital cable signals. If I understand digital cable TV transmissions correctly, all of those transmissions require a QAM tuner. If the signals are transmitted "in the clear", then any set with a built-in QAM tuner can display the programming. But most cable TV systems are moving toward full encryption of digital signals. This means that an external box decrypts the signal and also contains a QAM tuner to tune the decrypted signal.
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post #11703 of 11726 Old 01-31-2016, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Steven in NC View Post
Do you mean ATSC tuners? They better keep those or grabbing OTA will then require a "box" that I don't want to have to get.

He means QAM tuners as most cable systems have encrypted.

As to your other statement, ATSC 3.0 when adopted will make your current ATSC 1.0 tuner not to work.

You will need either an external ATSC 3.0 tuner or a new TV.
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post #11704 of 11726 Old 01-31-2016, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by veedon View Post
By federal law (or FCC regulation), all TV sets sold in the U.S. must have built-in ATSC tuners.

He probably meant an analog tuner for analog cable TV signals. He may also have meant a QAM tuner for digital cable signals. If I understand digital cable TV transmissions correctly, all of those transmissions require a QAM tuner. If the signals are transmitted "in the clear", then any set with a built-in QAM tuner can display the programming. But most cable TV systems are moving toward full encryption of digital signals. This means that an external box decrypts the signal and also contains a QAM tuner to tune the decrypted signal.

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Originally Posted by GCAVS View Post
He means QAM tuners as most cable systems have encrypted.

As to your other statement, ATSC 3.0 when adopted will make your current ATSC 1.0 tuner not to work.

You will need either an external ATSC 3.0 tuner or a new TV.
Thanks to both of you...great info. Makes perfect sense now.

As for ATSC 3.0 I wasn't aware of that pending change. As an early adopter of HD and then OTA I have purposely took a break from chasing technology...particularly on the resolution side (ultra, etc).

A quick read just now on 3.0 promises "more efficient use of broadcast spectrum, greater interactivity, ultra–high-definition video and better compatibility with mobile devices."

Who is pushing this? Fcc? Broadcast stations? TV manufacturers? It sure seems a big disruption for consumers along with an avalanche of electronic waste when existing (perfectly fine TV's) are made obsolete. The box/dongle route just adds another box to (wastefully) power up. I don't see any part of this that appeals to me.

Last edited by Steven in NC; 01-31-2016 at 07:35 PM.
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post #11705 of 11726 Old 01-31-2016, 09:48 AM
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It will be quite a long time before ATSC 3.0 is an implemented reality. And when it does happen, the government will step in to smooth the transition and to ensure that costs are not forced on consumers.
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post #11706 of 11726 Old 01-31-2016, 11:20 PM
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It will be quite a long time before ATSC 3.0 is an implemented reality. And when it does happen, the government will step in to smooth the transition and to ensure that costs are not forced on consumers.
The NTSC to ATSC 1.0 convertor box was a giant boondoggle failure and will not be repeated in the future (beyond the point that there is no money to pay for it anyway).

A USB ATSC 3.0 to MPEG converter, similar to the Google Chromecast, will most likely be available for between $50 to $100 for current HDTVs, with no subsidy.

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Originally Posted by Steven in NC View Post

Who is pushing this? Fcc? Broadcast stations? TV manufacturers? It sure seems a big disruption for consumers along with an avalanche of electronic waste when existing (perfectly fine TV's) are made obsolete. The box/dongle route just adds another box to (wastefully) power up. I don't see any part of this that appeals to me.
I guess you do not want 4K or the ability to receive TV in an mobile (and even make it very easy to receive with a small antenna, compared what is listed on the past several pages of going out of the way to pick up even the local stations.

Who is for it?

FCC is neutral.

TV Manufacturers and Station Groups want it.

Networks do not want it (A small antenna/tuner could be put in the Cable Box STB and Cable would not have to pay Retrans fees).

Last edited by GCAVS; 01-31-2016 at 11:24 PM.
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post #11707 of 11726 Old 02-01-2016, 05:58 PM
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Would TV stations have to buy whole new transmitters for ATSC 3.0?
If so, they might not be too keen on ponying up the money, especially if they were not 100% guaranteed that almost all of their viewers would already have the equipment needed to receive the transmissions.

The conversion from analog OTA to digital OTA was a big enough deal to make it worth the inconvenience, but in the future any disruptions will be frowned on by almost everyone, and the powers that be will have to obey the users, not the other way around.
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post #11708 of 11726 Old 02-01-2016, 06:12 PM
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Most would need a software update in the modulators if there is no channel change.


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post #11709 of 11726 Old 02-02-2016, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GCAVS View Post


I guess you do not want 4K or the ability to receive TV in an mobile (and even make it very easy to receive with a small antenna, compared what is listed on the past several pages of going out of the way to pick up even the local stations.
I really have no use for 4K. I quit chasing the resolution rabbit a long time ago. Mobile has very little to no appeal to me either. If picking up the OTA signal becomes easier that would appeal to me.

It seems it is a ways out so likely won't be a big nuisance to me either way thankfully.
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post #11710 of 11726 Old 02-02-2016, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GCAVS View Post
Who is for it?

FCC is neutral.

TV Manufacturers and Station Groups want it.

Networks do not want it (A small antenna/tuner could be put in the Cable Box STB and Cable would not have to pay Retrans fees).
What about cable/satellite providers?

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post #11711 of 11726 Old 02-02-2016, 11:39 PM
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What about cable/satellite providers?
They have nite weighed in, but if they see being able to put ATSC 3.0 tuner in home and not worry about paying Broadcasters, well, one could see why they might be keeping quite at this time.
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post #11712 of 11726 Old 02-02-2016, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Steven in NC View Post
I really have no use for 4K. I quit chasing the resolution rabbit a long time ago. Mobile has very little to no appeal to me either. If picking up the OTA signal becomes easier that would appeal to me.

It seems it is a ways out so likely won't be a big nuisance to me either way thankfully.
Define a long way out. I suspect 2020 is a good bet by which time 4K will be very common, just in time for 8K in Japan from the Olympics.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/000...nsition/277850

Note this from Sinclair, which owns TV stations serving over 50% of the US Population....they have tested ATSC 3.0 and moving forward as fast as possible:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/000...ntation/277853

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post #11713 of 11726 Old 02-03-2016, 01:21 PM
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The UNC network has devolved back to 4 services on its OTA. Its new one is the North Carolina Channel.
I have no idea what cable is doing
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post #11714 of 11726 Old 02-04-2016, 08:30 AM
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With the departure of open channels on TWC, I have been inundated with calls from people getting antennas for the first time and wanting to know how to install them and make them work. I have created a very rudimentary diagram on what the basic parts are for a simple system that will get all the local stations if you live in the three metro areas.

Feel free to distribute as you see fit.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Antenna Installtions Model.pdf (234.0 KB, 25 views)
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post #11715 of 11726 Old 02-04-2016, 01:05 PM
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Hey Guys! Been awhile!

Foxeng,

Have you been impressed with Denny's antenna? I had wanted to get the HD stacker from him, but alas, I'm still using a homemade antenna that is sitting on the ledge of my back deck. I'm getting about 30 channels right now, most all VA channels, Triad channels, but no Raleigh or Charlotte channels. I've got the antenna connected to a DirecTV splitter outside. The cable line that is coming into the house from that splitter is running into a DirectTV amp (I guess it's an amp) and then from the amp to my TV. I don't know if that DirecTV amp/box thing is even helping or hurting my reception in anyway, but I've been able to get everything I thought and wanted with the homemade deal.
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post #11716 of 11726 Old 02-04-2016, 02:22 PM
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Hey Guys! Been awhile!

Foxeng,

Have you been impressed with Denny's antenna? I had wanted to get the HD stacker from him, but alas, I'm still using a homemade antenna that is sitting on the ledge of my back deck. I'm getting about 30 channels right now, most all VA channels, Triad channels, but no Raleigh or Charlotte channels. I've got the antenna connected to a DirecTV splitter outside. The cable line that is coming into the house from that splitter is running into a DirectTV amp (I guess it's an amp) and then from the amp to my TV. I don't know if that DirecTV amp/box thing is even helping or hurting my reception in anyway, but I've been able to get everything I thought and wanted with the homemade deal.

I am very happy with it. It is really just for the locals, and it does that very well. I have it setup in the worst case scenario with it very low to the ground, 10 feet off of a fence post, 180 feet of coax and several splitters. Setup correctly, I suspect it will work even better. Living in Greensboro, I have one pointed towards Sauratown Mt, and the other down US 220. Off the back, I am picking up WGPX as well with this setup. On band openings I have seen some of the Roanoke stations with it, off the back. For what it is, I am satisfied with it.

As for the DirecTV amps and splitters, I would get the right stuff. The amps and splitters are not completely OTA compatible and you could be losing signal or channels.

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post #11717 of 11726 Old 02-04-2016, 08:21 PM
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No rotors? Is that just because antenna rotors are not DVR friendly?
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post #11718 of 11726 Old 02-05-2016, 07:40 AM
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No rotors? Is that just because antenna rotors are not DVR friendly?
Since with digital there is no "ghosting" in the image, more times than not, two antennas hooked together will work. If you have an issue with large trees, or buildings, then you may have to use a rotor to aim for the most gain to cancel out the problem of signal drops as the wind blows or signal fades etc.
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post #11719 of 11726 Old 02-05-2016, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by foxeng View Post
I am very happy with it. It is really just for the locals, and it does that very well. I have it setup in the worst case scenario with it very low to the ground, 10 feet off of a fence post, 180 feet of coax and several splitters. Setup correctly, I suspect it will work even better. Living in Greensboro, I have one pointed towards Sauratown Mt, and the other down US 220. Off the back, I am picking up WGPX as well with this setup. On band openings I have seen some of the Roanoke stations with it, off the back. For what it is, I am satisfied with it.

As for the DirecTV amps and splitters, I would get the right stuff. The amps and splitters are not completely OTA compatible and you could be losing signal or channels.
Yeah, it was one of those "I'm lazy and just want to see if what was left from DirecTV worked". I wouldn't expect to get any channels from Charlotte or Raleigh from where I'm at, and honestly, as long as I'm getting the VA channels, I'm great with that. However, there are times where I might lose WDBJ 7 in order to tune in WSLS 10, or the other way around. Sometimes I get both without any pixelation at all, just depends on the weather I guess.
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post #11720 of 11726 Old 02-05-2016, 04:46 PM
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Thanks for the diagram foxeng.
I'm in Winston-Salem. After my cable was scrambled last week, I purchased a Stellar Labs 30-2430, which is an 8-bay antenna with 2 vertical sections that can be independently aimed. I received it today.
It's not installed yet, but to see what kind of signal I would get, I took one side and plugged it in my interior room where I hadn't been able to get reception with my amplified indoor antennas.
Pointed north towards Saurtown Mt, I get the WXII and WUNL with a fairly good signal, and the Greensboro stations (that are east) all have really strong signals anyway. Because of this, I'm thinking I will install with both sections pointed north. I am wondering if its worth it for me to get the preamp? Would I be able to pick up anything else (i.e., Charlotte stations or WGPX)? It's no more than a 15-ft cable run to the TV, so I would be adding the preamp to get more stations.
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post #11721 of 11726 Old 02-06-2016, 06:32 PM
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Classic Doctor Who on unc 26.3

Just noticed unc 26.3 is showing classic Doctor who tonight from 12-5am. 3rd Doctor episodes. On next week also.
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post #11722 of 11726 Old 02-07-2016, 09:32 AM
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Thanks for the diagram foxeng.
I'm in Winston-Salem. After my cable was scrambled last week, I purchased a Stellar Labs 30-2430, which is an 8-bay antenna with 2 vertical sections that can be independently aimed. I received it today.
It's not installed yet, but to see what kind of signal I would get, I took one side and plugged it in my interior room where I hadn't been able to get reception with my amplified indoor antennas.
Pointed north towards Saurtown Mt, I get the WXII and WUNL with a fairly good signal, and the Greensboro stations (that are east) all have really strong signals anyway. Because of this, I'm thinking I will install with both sections pointed north. I am wondering if its worth it for me to get the preamp? Would I be able to pick up anything else (i.e., Charlotte stations or WGPX)? It's no more than a 15-ft cable run to the TV, so I would be adding the preamp to get more stations.
Charlotte stations can be received in parts of Winston-Salem with a good antenna. A preamp may help although sounds like you may not have a long cable run. Attic can work but outside is better.
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post #11723 of 11726 Old 02-07-2016, 12:33 PM
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Thanks for the diagram foxeng.
I'd listen to foxeng..He's local and knows his stuff. Be leary of advice from those who don't actually live in your market.

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post #11724 of 11726 Old 02-07-2016, 08:25 PM
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I'd listen to foxeng..He's local and knows his stuff. Be leary of advice from those who don't actually live in your market.
Yes foxeng is indeed most knowledgeable about the technical issues and the Greensboro market. But I know from friends and posters on this forum who have confirmed that Charlotte signals can be received in parts of Winston-Salem. But I will not speculate on the best antenna or amp. I will leave that up to you experts to decide that.
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post #11725 of 11726 Old Today, 07:19 AM
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Remember antenna signals are relatively weak, so limit connections to as few as possible.

Here I have an 8-bay UHF mounted in the attic, with the cable running through a coax plate in the living room directly to the Tivo (no jack to avoid even that little bit of signal loss).

As for ATSC 3.0, a quick question.

I've seen some claim that there will be regular ATSC 3.0 broadcasts within 18 months, with ATSC 1.0/2.0 downgraded to 480p (at best) in no less than 5 years - do those here in the business agree with that timeline?
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post #11726 of 11726 Old Today, 09:23 AM
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Remember antenna signals are relatively weak, so limit connections to as few as possible.

Here I have an 8-bay UHF mounted in the attic, with the cable running through a coax plate in the living room directly to the Tivo (no jack to avoid even that little bit of signal loss).

As for ATSC 3.0, a quick question.

I've seen some claim that there will be regular ATSC 3.0 broadcasts within 18 months, with ATSC 1.0/2.0 downgraded to 480p (at best) in no less than 5 years - do those here in the business agree with that timeline?
There is still lots of talk on what to do and how to do it. That time line is a doable time line, but will they adopt or come up with something else. That is yet to be decided. The big thing is with ATSC3.0, it cuts the wireless providers out and they don't like that. They want to become the wireless video providers and charge for every bit.

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