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post #451 of 2148 Old 01-21-2006, 08:35 PM
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P.S.- Intercept Report - 2 miles from Byron GA (off Hwy 49 east of Byron)

My previous post measurements were done about 6PM that day.

I repeated the measurements at 11:20PM, low thin fog, patchy clouds, stars visible.
All measurements were within one count of original readings although UPN was occassionally dropping below lock level.

Also, for the first time I am able to get Fox (24-1). I Had the antenna 6 ft off the ground for a few days and could not lock in Fox.
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post #452 of 2148 Old 01-22-2006, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evofxdwg View Post

I did not get time today to swing it around toward ATL to see if i could get anything.

When you get around to it. Try starting with DT-43 (WUPA-69), it is by far the strongest signal coming out of Atlanta. If your antenna is capable of VHF reception, and I assume it is since you're getting DT-4 out of Macon, even though you are only 11 miles from the farm and VHF antenna may not be necessary, try DT-10 (WXIA-11), it's as solid a signal as DT-43.
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Originally Posted by evofxdwg View Post

Does anybody have any idea of the absolute power level and/or dB/step the signal strength values might correspond to?
I could calculate the additional range loss to see if it might be worth trying.

Sorry, but no.

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Originally Posted by evofxdwg View Post

Wonder what the loss is due to bare trees in the way (on my lot and the neighbors)?

I wouldn't call bare trees a loss, it's a blessing, wait till you get leaves on them and you'll see what I mean.

Al

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post #453 of 2148 Old 01-22-2006, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldave View Post

I see where WMAZ finally got the PSIP right for 13-3, and Doppler has returned.

Thanks oldave, I had to rescan my tv to get it. Which turned out to be a blessing, in doing so it cleaned up a lot of duplicate channels as well as unused once locked (or twice-thrice locked) and unable to catch again channels that have been collecting atmospheric dust for a while. I also like the new sound that gives a weather report and not a multicast of the regular channel. Although, I wouldn't mind if they were to put one of the local radio channels on it.

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post #454 of 2148 Old 01-29-2006, 09:47 AM
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Ok... I'm in Haddock, antennaweb says that I am about 26 miles from wmaz. I'm receiving 13.1 and 13.2 doppler radar, and the picture is great, esp the native hd content. I can pick up upn on 64.1, but apparently its only broadcast in 480.
I cant pick up anything else, and I would think that I could. I have the radio shack VU-190 XR with rotor, no amplifier, its aproximately 22' off the ground, and i'm on relatively high ground in jones county. I am considering raising the antenna an additional 10' to see if that helps any. I can get a very clear (as far as analog goes) signal on 24,41,58. I have turned the antenna to maximise analog reception on these stations, and tried to pick up a digital signal, but cannot. I am using the hd tuner that is internal with the tv, a sony kdf-e42a10.
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post #455 of 2148 Old 02-03-2006, 11:50 AM
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Chris, before you raise the antenna, you might need to get an amplifier. I'm at 20 miles out in the opposite direction (half between Lizella and Roberta), I use a deepfringe Winegard antenna w/amplifier and a CM rotor and have no problems, can also get Atlanta at night and somewhat in daylight. If I unplug my amp or disconnect it, I only get the 2 you mention (13 and 64). And, quite possibly with an amp you might be able to pull in Augusta. Note: this is pure speculation on my part. I have no confidence in Rat Shack antenna's or amplifiers. And raising your antenna certainly won't do any harm. Also a Rat Shack amplifier should work fine, if all you want is the Macon mux. Again, raising your antenna can't hurt. But, I think you'll still need the amp.

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post #456 of 2148 Old 02-12-2006, 11:11 AM
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Anybody else notice LOTS of pixellation of the Winter Olympics on WMGT-DT? From what i have read, this is due to not allocating enough bandwidth to the channel. Is ths a WMGT problem or upstream? Note the NASCAR Daytona qualifying (same channel later program) doesnt appear to have as much pixellation.
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post #457 of 2148 Old 02-13-2006, 12:56 PM
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I concur. Also, seems like if the camera is not in the studio, the picture often looks like cox cable standard definition even tho it's wide screen.
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post #458 of 2148 Old 02-14-2006, 08:12 PM
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Effect of TV network merger still unknown

News regarding "The CW" in Macon, and WGNM.

~Alan

DirecTV SUBSCRIBER since 1995!
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views
of Alan Gordon, Alan Gordon Enterprises, Alan Gordon, Inc., or Alan Gordon Amalgamated.
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post #459 of 2148 Old 02-16-2006, 09:05 PM
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Alan, I don't know what will happen in Macon. But, I do know it won't be on WGNM. There contract with UPN expires around September 2nd or 3rd and they will at that point become an exclusive Christian channel. WMAZ knows this and was interested in a subchannel for UPN, but now, with the new CW network they don't seem to be interested as Cox cable had rights to the WB network for the Macon market. If Cox cable gets the CW it should most likely be on cable only, as I seriously doubt they would put up an antenna for OTA reception.

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post #460 of 2148 Old 02-17-2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voomvoom View Post

Alan, I don't know what will happen in Macon. But, I do know it won't be on WGNM. There contract with UPN expires around September 2nd or 3rd and they will at that point become an exclusive Christian channel. WMAZ knows this and was interested in a subchannel for UPN, but now, with the new CW network they don't seem to be interested as Cox cable had rights to the WB network for the Macon market. If Cox cable gets the CW it should most likely be on cable only, as I seriously doubt they would put up an antenna for OTA reception.

If you read the link I posted above, you'd see that it said the same thing.

I've picked up WGNM a few times, and was looking for information regarding stations (UPN) that I can pick up, to see the chances of me picking up a CW affiliate, and thought I'd post it here for those of you who didn't know (I don't remember seeing it on this message board).

BTW, also for those of you who don't know, Dish Network will be converting the SD locals on the 105 SuperDISH to the DISH500 dish in the next few months...

~Alan

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post #461 of 2148 Old 02-17-2006, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gordon View Post

If you read the link I posted above, you'd see that it said the same thing.

The link above doesn't work!
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post #462 of 2148 Old 02-17-2006, 01:07 PM
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Any full power info?
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post #463 of 2148 Old 02-17-2006, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcwalters View Post

The link above doesn't work!

Sorry, it did when I posted it. Here's a link to a post on a message board where the article is posted.

Effect of TV network merger still unknown (Macon, GA)

~Alan

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post #464 of 2148 Old 02-19-2006, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gordon View Post

If you read the link I posted above, you'd see that it said the same thing.


~Alan

Alan, I'm sorry, but it didn't work for me, so I couldn't read it. But, the new one does and that's where I got my info over at the Sat Guys web site.

Al

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post #465 of 2148 Old 03-09-2006, 12:34 PM
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i am 8.4 miles from the towers in Macon of hwy 57 and cannot pick up the fox station or nbc station in digital format, i pick up the other stations at roughly 85 signal, gut get 22 on fox and 36 on nbc. i am using a channel master 3020 antenna at 25 feet off ground. are fox and nbc not putting out enough power for me to receive them or do i need to try something else.
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post #466 of 2148 Old 03-12-2006, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaspurser View Post

i am 8.4 miles from the towers in Macon of hwy 57 and cannot pick up the fox station or nbc station in digital format, i pick up the other stations at roughly 85 signal, gut get 22 on fox and 36 on nbc. i am using a channel master 3020 antenna at 25 feet off ground. are fox and nbc not putting out enough power for me to receive them or do i need to try something else.

Im 11 miles from the farm. See my other posts in this thread for my setup. I get all the local DTV stations but fox drops occasionally some nights. However most nights it is good.

There may be a number of reasons you cant get the others:
1. Antenna not high enough.
2. You may be in a depression or a hill or structures are between you and the towers (again, antenna not high enough) My ground elevation is 460 ft, which probably helps me a lot. (One way to get your elevation is load Google Earth and enter your address).
3. Cable/accessory loss - do you have a good quality low loss coax and connectors, minimal runs to the TV receiver, no splitters, etc? Check out Belden 1694A loss characteristics.
4. Trees? Is the antenna "looking" through a bunch them? Mine has a few hardwoods in the way but since we are coming out of winter, I guess its not much effect. I may loose signal in a few weeks due to leafing.
5. Is the antenna pointed correctly? (long shot) Check antennaweb.org for pointing angles for your address. Have somone watch the strength meter while you rotate the antenna to optimize it for one of the other channels within a degree or two of Fox/NBC. (i took a cell phone up on the roof while my wife watched the meter). Lock the antenna down at optimum strength. Then scan and see if you can get Fox/NBC.
6. Is your DTV receiver sensitive enough (probably OK since you pick up two).

A mast-mounted amp may help but no gaurantees. You have a high gain antenna already.

I think Fox power is way down so any improvement will bring in NBC before Fox.
Good luck.
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post #467 of 2148 Old 03-12-2006, 10:48 PM
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Boy this thread is dead.

Hey Ralph Carson: Do you have any theories on why I seem to have more dropouts (especially on Fox) when the wind is gusting?

Is it my antenna bouncing around or yours? My antenna seems to have a fairly wide beamwidth, and is only on a single 10ft mast secured to the chimney. Hard to believe it could move that much. Cable is secured and has no breaks outside that could exhibit loose connection...........Hmmm .......i guess the oak tree it is looking thru the crown of DOES move in the wind. Could that be the cause? Even with no leaves yet?
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post #468 of 2148 Old 03-13-2006, 09:48 AM
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Hey Evofxdawg:
I do not know. However, it sounds like the trees would be suspect. While any tower will move in the wind, the movement would be insignifigant to signal strength. However trees will move alot in the wind, and can absorb some signal strength, especially when fully leafed. Your home antenna could be moving some but if the mast is installed properly and the guy wires tensioned correctly, that shouldn't be a problem. Since our signal is very weak, it wouldn't take much if the signal is close to the threshold at your end. By law we have to shut down NTSC in 2009, and I expect that we will be full power at that time. With full power, this shouldn't be a problem. Also, if you are using old fashion twin lead, it should be properly stood off (using commercially availlable standoffs) from the house and should be drawn tight in areas exposed to the wind. This is not an issue with coax, and therefore it is more popular.

Ralph Carson
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post #469 of 2148 Old 03-31-2006, 02:34 PM
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I put up an CM 8-bay antenna with preamp and now i get all the uhf stations a whole lot better, but now I have lost cbs and I can no longer get it, can I put a small vhf antenna on top of mast and combine it with my 8-bay or will that detract from what i have now
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post #470 of 2148 Old 03-31-2006, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaspurser View Post

I put up an CM 8-bay antenna with preamp and now i get all the uhf stations a whole lot better, but now I have lost cbs and I can no longer get it, can I put a small vhf antenna on top of mast and combine it with my 8-bay or will that detract from what i have now

I suspect it will work. You'll lose a little more than 3dB thru a 2-way combiner and connectors (assuming you have matching impedance cable/combiner, and good connectors, etc.). If CBS is pretty strong relative to other stations (like Fox 24) I suggest placing combiner after the amp so you wont increase the noise level much for UHF. If it doesnt work well, move the combiner before the amp and try. Be sure and use mast-mount rated (weatherproof) combiner.

(Im assuming the VHF antenna you get will NOT have an amp)

Another approach is to get a mast-mount amp with two inputs (internal combiner). Not sure where or what is available.
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post #471 of 2148 Old 04-01-2006, 07:19 AM
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WGNM-TV and it's sister station in Palm Beach, Florida have filed to drop analog entirely and Flash-cut to DTV (single channel, no multicast).

FCC Public Notices DA 06-6-46 and DA 06-6-47.

Ken English, Sr. Engineer, KSL-TV.
"The postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent the Company positions, strategies or opinions."
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post #472 of 2148 Old 05-01-2006, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaspurser View Post

i am 8.4 miles from the towers in Macon of hwy 57 and cannot pick up the fox station or nbc station in digital format, i pick up the other stations at roughly 85 signal, gut get 22 on fox and 36 on nbc. i am using a channel master 3020 antenna at 25 feet off ground. are fox and nbc not putting out enough power for me to receive them or do i need to try something else.

FOX and NBC stations in Macon disgust me as far as their digital power output is concerned. It is a total shame that we have to put up huge masts of antennas pointed towards absolutely clear horizons on top of 10000 ft. hills with pre-amps and all that crap just to get digital signal from towers that are only a few miles away. It is an outrage in my opinion.

I have tried almost all options and still can't get local Macon FOX or NBC. BUT I GET some ATLANTA DIGITAL TV STATIONS. CAN YOU ALL FATHOM THAT? My god! wake up Macon FOX and NBC and do something about this low power foolishness. What a disgrace!!!!
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post #473 of 2148 Old 05-07-2006, 12:03 PM
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Anyone at 41 ever look at this forum? If so, I'd like you to know I'm highly teed at you for your idiotic performance yesterday afternoon. I'm a Hockey Fan and was most disappointed when you failed to show the game in HD. Sure it was HD upconvert of the NBC/NHL SD feed. That's not good enough. I know for a fact it was in HD on Atlanta's channel 11. In fact that's the channel I watched. Lucky for me I can get 11 in the daytime, unlike the other Atlanta channels, which have too many dropouts during daylight hours. I did turn it back from time to time to see if anybody at your station had awakened from your nap yet. Every time I checked it was still SD with dark side bars which I don't care for. But, what astonished me was when the Hockey game was finished, someone woke up and flipped the switch for the Kentucky Derby in HD. I'm sure Horse Racing fans appreciated that. It only angered me more. Please do a better job today. I for one would really appreciate it. But, if you don't, I'll be more than happy to watch channel 11 again so I can get the most out of my TV. Thanks for any compassion you can find.

Al

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post #474 of 2148 Old 05-07-2006, 01:06 PM
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Thank you channel 41 for getting it right today. It would be nice if you would boost your power up. Of course all Macon's stations need to boost their power. I hope some time in the near future, you can get 5.1 sound in your system. That would be nice.

Al

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post #475 of 2148 Old 05-07-2006, 07:58 PM
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Hey guys.

I live in Eastman and about to buy a house. Because our cable company sucks (the only high def network Mediacom gives me is NBC), I'm thinking of switching to a dish and trying to pick up the digital channels out of Macon. Eastman is about 60 miles south of Macon. The house is in the city so I'm not sure how big of an antenna I can install. Any recommendations? Thanks.

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post #476 of 2148 Old 05-10-2006, 07:53 AM
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Anyone?

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post #477 of 2148 Old 05-10-2006, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddUGA View Post

Anyone?

A dish????? What kind of dish for Macon stations? Do you mean a parbolic reflector antenna?

Im 8 miles from the Macon transmitters. I have an antenna about 40 ft up that is advertised to have 7.8 dB gain. I am using low loss Belden 1694A coax (no more than 50 ft) without an amp. I get all the macon stations except Fox and I got it till the trees leaved out a few weeks ago. (Fox is transmitting low power and my antenna is actually looking thru some trees in my yard)

You are 60 miles from "the farm." If you need to acheive the same signal level as me to receive the stations, the inverse square law says you need 6dB additional gain for each doubling of the distance. 8 to 16, 16 to 32, and 32 to 64 gets to your range 3 "doubles" then means you need 3x6=18 dB more gain than me. 18+7.8 = 25.8 dB.

My calcs for a parabolic reflector antenna show you would need an 11 meter diameter dish to get this gain at 633 MHz (WMGT-DT carrier) and a 20 meter diameter dish at 211.25 MHz (WMAZ-DT carrier)! Got a source for spare radio astronomy antennas? Suggest you go with available yagi or bowtie reflector antenna types, as most people seem to do.

Commercially available long range antenna gains are not going to be more than 16 or 17 dB. And if you want a combined VHF/UHF antenna (You want to get WMAZ-DT so you can watch The Unit in Hi def dont you?), it is going to be lower.

Here is a good reference: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
Look at the "Net Gain" plot.

heres a UHF only antenna claiming 16.7dB max gain:
http://www.antennasdirect.com/91XG_HDTV_antenna.html
but no VHF (cant get WMAZ-DT with this one)

Highest gain UHF/VHF i see from same place has 12.9 dB gain
http://www.antennasdirect.com/V21_vhf_antenna.html

Here is a good reference i just found tonite. And prices dont seem too bad either.
http://www.solidsignal.com/winegard_antenna_chart.asp
Note the longest UHF range they advertise is 60 miles.

So for UHF only, you need to make up 25.8 - 16 = 10 dB of antenna gain with a mast-mount Amp. For combined VHF/UHF, you need to make up 25.8 - 12.9 = 12.9 dB amp gain. And you need to make up any cable loss also. So you are going to need more than 13dB of gain out of the Amp. According to online vendor claims, you can get 18 to 28 dB amp gain (watch out for vendor claims). The amp will decrease signal to noise ratio a few dB which is something you cant do anything about. Hopefully, there is enough margin in the starting point (my setup gain and signal to noise ratio) and extra amp gain so your receiver will not have a problem.

All these gains considered, you also need "line of sight" which at 60 miles range, means you need the antenna way up in the air or you live on a mountain (i havent seen any in Eastman). If you are in a depression (elevation wise, not psycologically), forget it.

Bear in mind that all this is "seat of the pants" calculations and some based on vendor claims but you might get lucky. I have no idea what typical signal strengths are in Eastman, nor what minimum sensitivity is for any HDTV receiver. I would bet against you seeing anything (maybe WMAZ-DT at night) unless your land elevation is at least as much as surrounding terrain, you have a high gain antenna, TBD (60 ft, 100 ft? I dont know what is needed for line of sight at your location) or higher above the ground, no blockage by buildings or trees, mast mount preamp of 15dB or greater, and low loss, high shield coverage cable.

Suggest you find someone else out there who successfully did it and assess your situation from their installation. Anybody in Eastman pulling Macon HDTV off the air?????
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post #478 of 2148 Old 05-11-2006, 12:41 PM
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Hey Shahm:
If we hadn't have gone low power it is doubtful we would be broadcasting in HD or even just digital at this point. There is a tremendous cost associated with building and running a high power transmission plant, and at this time little or no return on it. But cheer up, It's still a long time away and there are many things that could stall progress, but initial planning has begun for high power. And that's about all I can say at this time.

Ralph Carson
Assistant Chief Engineer
WGXA TV24, WGXA-DT16
Macon, Georgia
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post #479 of 2148 Old 05-12-2006, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evofxdwg View Post

A dish????? What kind of dish for Macon stations? Do you mean a parbolic reflector antenna?

Oops! Should have been more clear. By dish I mean Dish Network or DirecTV. Since neither offers Macon channels in hi-def (yet?), I was wanting to use an antenna to try and pick up the Macon stations in HDTV. I don't think I'll be able to get a decent line of sight though without putting up a huge freakin' antenna.

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post #480 of 2148 Old 05-12-2006, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ralph Carson View Post

Hey Shahm:
If we hadn't have gone low power it is doubtful we would be broadcasting in HD or even just digital at this point. There is a tremendous cost associated with building and running a high power transmission plant, and at this time little or no return on it.

Ralph,

I can understand what you are saying about the cost of a high-power digital plant-- both the capital and operating costs are large. However, my beef with broadcasters like your station- and the FOX and ABC stations in Savannah- is that as part of the NAB, every broadcaster has in effect wanted to have their cake and eat it, too.

I'm talking about the various laws and regs lobbied for by the broadcasters that prohibit the satellite TV carriers and cable companies from offering folks in the local area HD distant networks. If the local broadcasters don't want to spend the money for HD digital signal coverage that at least equals their analog coverage, then they should not be able to block local folks from acquiring HD distant networks from other providers (satellite or cable). In other words, in your case there in Macon and in the case of the FOX and ABC stations in Savannah, any resident in your DMA should be allowed to get the HD network feeds from the New York affiliates via satellite (DirecTV or Dish Network) as long as the local affiliate's HD DTV coverage is substantially less than their analog coverage.

It sort of appears to me the local stations don't want to spend any money to provide high-power HD coverage, but at the same time they want to use the law and the FCC to keep their dissatisfied viewers from defecting to satellite or cable provided distant network affiliates- hence my "have their cake and eat it, too" remark.
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