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post #1621 of 2151 Old 01-12-2010, 09:51 AM
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No, I have seen the framerate problem also. I don't find it that bad, especially compared to the analog hell of a few years ago. I think it's strange, though, that it shows up on DirecTV but not OTA. I would blame bandwidth, but with DirecTV dropping WPGA altogether, there shouldn't be any change there.
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post #1622 of 2151 Old 01-12-2010, 11:16 AM
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Hmmmm, might be time to contact someone over at DirecTV and see if they can help.

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post #1623 of 2151 Old 01-12-2010, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddUGA View Post

So am I the only one getting the weird framerate issues on both stations via DirecTV? Does it manifest itself via OTA whenever film based material is shown? I no longer have my antenna installed so I can't test the OTA signal.

No frame rate issues seen here, at least OTA. And as a Dish subscriber, I can't say whether there are any issues with Dish Network, as they only provide SD Macon locals, so I only watch OTA.
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post #1624 of 2151 Old 01-13-2010, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ToddUGA View Post

So am I the only one getting the weird framerate issues on both stations via DirecTV? Does it manifest itself via OTA whenever film based material is shown? I no longer have my antenna installed so I can't test the OTA signal.

You're not the only one. I am a Directv customer and I recently hooked up a Directv HR-20 DVR to my primary tv, a Sony that I bought last year. In the HR-20 are two OTA tuners and two Directv tuners. The Sony, of course, has its own tuner. I have an antenna that feeds both the Directv OTA tuners and the Sony tuner. When I watch WGXA programming (FOX or ABC) via the HR-20 Directv tuners (the signal beamed down from the satellite in the sky), the video has the frame-rate problem that we've been discussing. To me, it looks as if the video is too slow. Also, the audio drops out pretty regularly. It used to have a brapping sound associated with it, but it doesn't any more. It just drops out completely and then comes back on with a second or two.

Via the OTA tuners in the HR-20, the frame-rate problem for FOX and ABC does not occur. The "speed" of the video is natural looking. However, from time to time, the video will break up a little, but quickly recovers. The audio drops out, though, just as badly as via the Directv tuners. On channels 24.1 and 24.2, both OTA tuners in the HR-20 show a signal strength of between 95 and 100.

Via the tuner in the Sony tv, FOX and ABC video seem very good - no frame-rate problems that I can perceive, and no breaking up (at least not in the last couple of days). The audio dropouts, however, are as bad as those via the Directv OTA tuners and the Directv tuners. They're frequent enough to be very annoying. Signal strength for 24.1 and 24.2 is usually between 95 and 100 on this tuner, as well. Why the Sony tuner does better on the video portion than the Directv OTA tuners, I don't know. All tuners are fed by the same antenna. Go figure.

By the way, I think Ralph and Richard do a terrific job. I know from personal experience that Ralph will bend over backwards to help a viewer with problems, and not just pass it off as the viewer's error. But I do think they need to know the nature and description of the problems that various viewers are experiencing so that they can properly analyze, troubleshoot, and fix the problems. How will they know, if someone doesn't tell them?
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post #1625 of 2151 Old 01-13-2010, 04:07 PM
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Hey Y'all:
I just read your account of the problems y'all have been experiencing, and I will forward this info to my chief. We have already discussed the frame rate problem, and we will be looking into it. We just got our test gear, and we will have a Grass Valley rep here tomorrow, And you can bet I will bring it up. Thanks for your patience, guys, we have the Dolby encoders, but they are complicated, and we needed to get the test gear set up to make sure we assigned the channels properly. But that may be put off while more important things are dealt with. Thanks for the info, keep it coming.

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post #1626 of 2151 Old 01-13-2010, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ralph Carson View Post

Hey Y'all:
I just read your account of the problems y'all have been experiencing, and I will forward this info to my chief. We have already discussed the frame rate problem, and we will be looking into it. We just got our test gear, and we will have a Grass Valley rep here tomorrow, And you can bet I will bring it up. Thanks for your patience, guys, we have the Dolby encoders, but they are complicated, and we needed to get the test gear set up to make sure we assigned the channels properly. But that may be put off while more important things are dealt with. Thanks for the info, keep it coming.

Ralph Carson
A.C.E.
WGXA TV24/16

Just an update... things have been better... but still not where I know you want them to be....

The Dish Network 722k with OTA receiver is now pretty rock solid decoding either 24.1 or 24.2... I can join the chorus on the audio dropouts getting to the point of annoying. Signal "quality" meter shows 84-85 all the time, and we are rarely getting the dreaded "Signal has been lost" yellow screen (though we did get it during the first 30 seconds of Idol tonight).

The Insignia DTV is still having trouble believing there's a signal there. It occasionally relents and decodes for a few minutes. When it does, the meter in this set shows 60-65.

For comparison, WRBL is on channel 15... and probably 120 degrees off from where the antenna's pointed (directly at the Macon towers... beamwidth should be enough to have no trouble with the little bit of spread)... and apparently in a minor lobe of this particular antenna...

The meters in both receivers show similar results for WRBL, but I don't see any issues at all on 3.1 or 3.2 (granted, they're only doing SD on 3.2).

As an additional data point, I just watched most of a break during Idol via the Dish Network satellite delivered channel (SD) and didn't notice any frame rate issues... and as I typed that, the Butler Toyota commercial had an odd moment with the motion of Leven Holliman's head... it wasn't pixelization, but made me think he was having a Max Headroom moment.
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post #1627 of 2151 Old 01-13-2010, 06:39 PM
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And now the video's lagging the audio a bit

On edit... though it might be Fox, as local was spot-on.
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post #1628 of 2151 Old 01-14-2010, 05:17 AM
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Last night, I watched American Idol via the Sony tuner and recorded the 9:00 p.m. showing of Modern Family via Directv sat tuner and Directv OTA tuner. Here is what I observed:
American Idol via the Sony tuner was very good. No perceived video problems, and only a couple of audio drop-outs that I recall happened during commercials. Via the Directv OTA tuners, I wasn't able to achieve any video or audio at all on channel 24.1 (FOX). This morning, it's back on. The Modern Family recording experiment yielded bad results. I thought if I recorded via both sources, I would get at least one good recording. Not so. The Directv SAT recording resulted in the frame-rate problem with some audio drop-outs. After switching to the Directv OTA recording, which I thought would be better, I was sorely disappointed. That recording had what I think is a PSIP problem with video breakup/pixelation issues every 30 seconds or so. Audio drop-outs were persistent throughout. It was so bad, I switched back to the SAT recording with the frame-rate problem to finish the program. I have read that the OTA tuners in the Directv HR-20 DVR are more sensitive to PSIP issues than the newer generation of tuners, but I don't know. I'm not an engineer.
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post #1629 of 2151 Old 01-14-2010, 07:39 AM
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Thanks for the analysis cbhpi. I wish I still had my antenna setup but I donated it to my grandfather who can no longer afford cable since my grandmother died. Glad to know Ralph is aware of the frame rate issues with DirecTV. Crossing my fingers that everything will be fixed by the time Lost comes back.

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post #1630 of 2151 Old 01-14-2010, 08:08 AM
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Me, too.
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post #1631 of 2151 Old 01-14-2010, 04:38 PM
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I'm hoping that Ralph Carson from WGXA in Macon still checks this forum. I apologize in advance that this is not an HDTV question, but it might be related to the switchover in channels.

I'm at my wits' end trying to help my parents, who live in Macon, by phone with a problem they're having since the ABC switch. They have a Tivo DVR and the online guide that it brings up does not match what is currently on.

ABC now airs on Cox Communications channel 15. However, Tivo's online guide does not reflect ABC programs. My dad, who's technologically challenged, has been calling Cox and Tivo for 2 weeks with no resolution. Is there anything that you can recommend for him to do to resolve this?
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post #1632 of 2151 Old 01-15-2010, 09:22 AM
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Just noticed that on my Directv box OTA tuner channel list I now have 58-2 I wonder if this is going to be what has been channel 50?

It is not finding a signal at this time but it is in the list of OTA channels and when I looked on the zap2it website they are listing 58-2 now also.
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post #1633 of 2151 Old 01-15-2010, 09:38 AM
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No, looks like they're adding This TV.

- Trip

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #1634 of 2151 Old 01-15-2010, 09:46 AM
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Looks like we won't have to worry about NFL on Fox and NASCAR on ABC slugging it out for bandwidth in the stat mux... ABC will only carry 3 races this year, all on Saturday nights.
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post #1635 of 2151 Old 01-15-2010, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavrick240 View Post

Just noticed that on my Directv box OTA tuner channel list I now have 58-2 I wonder if this is going to be what has been channel 50?

It is not finding a signal at this time but it is in the list of OTA channels and when I looked on the zap2it website they are listing 58-2 now also.

So now all the full-power stations in the Macon market have multiple channels... with only WMAZ not providing video on one of their secondary channels except during March Madness... and by not providing video, I'm not counting WMAZ's radar on 13.3.
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post #1636 of 2151 Old 01-16-2010, 05:25 AM
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Hey, Mavrick240. Just wondering if you have a Directv HR-20 DVR, with the built-in OTA tuners, and if so,whether you experience similar problems to the ones I described in my posts of January 13 at 4:47 p.m. and January 14th at 7:17 a.m?
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post #1637 of 2151 Old 01-16-2010, 11:24 AM
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In the past (in the days of JP/LFS) 24 carried the Saturday SEC games, and they Wed games were on one Fox Sports Net-South. 24 carried the football games, but I'm wondering about basketball. I noticed while at the gym that WPGA had the UGA game on Wed, but I have DirecTV at home, thus not WPGA. Are they the new Wed affiliate? Also, I've noticed that WGXA isn't listing the Sat games this week. Any idea where (or if) they'll be shown?

Thanks!

Also, is there really a way to use an OTA on the DirecTV HR21?
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post #1638 of 2151 Old 01-16-2010, 03:55 PM
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The Directv HR-21 does not have any OTA tuners in the box. However, Directv offers a separate box (AM-21) with two OTA tuners in it for use with the HR-21, HR-22, HR-23, and HR-21 Pro. Connects via USB. The HR-20 actually has two OTA tuners built in.
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post #1639 of 2151 Old 01-16-2010, 05:01 PM
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I've got an unused AM-21 just laying around macon_volfan if you're interested. I don't need it any longer since I took down my antenna.

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post #1640 of 2151 Old 01-17-2010, 05:47 AM
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Are the tuners any better in the AM-21 than in the HR-20? The OTA tuners in my HR-20 are just not as good as the tuners in my tv's. I think they have issues with handling multipath or something.
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post #1641 of 2151 Old 01-17-2010, 07:37 AM
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I never had an HR-20 so I can't say. But the AM21 didn't seem as good as the tuner in my television. Channels that the AM21 had trouble with were no problem for the Sony tuner.

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post #1642 of 2151 Old 01-18-2010, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbhpi View Post

Hey, Mavrick240. Just wondering if you have a Directv HR-20 DVR, with the built-in OTA tuners, and if so,whether you experience similar problems to the ones I described in my posts of January 13 at 4:47 p.m. and January 14th at 7:17 a.m?

I currently have an HR-21 with the OTA tuner add on which replaced my HR-20 a couple of years ago and I can tell you that the OTA tuners in the AM-21 addon are better than the ones in the HR-20 and I have not noticed the problems that you have described by in your posts through these tuners.
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post #1643 of 2151 Old 01-18-2010, 11:20 AM
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Thanks, Todd and Mavrick. Looks as if it's time to upgrade some Directv equipment.
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post #1644 of 2151 Old 01-19-2010, 06:37 AM
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Add me to the list of those having the frame rate problem. I just purchased my first HD tv a couple of weeks ago. I was a Dish Network customer, but after finding out that they only carry the locals in SD, I switched to DirecTV. I immediately noticed the frame rate problem on WGXA and FOX24. I thought the problem was with DirecTV and have talked with them several times with no solution. I wondered if maybe the problem was with my tv, but then noticed that the problem occurred on my SD tv in the bedroom. After much research, I stumbled onto this forum.

It's good to know that the problem is not on my end. The frame rate problem seems to come and go. It is always there during prime time. However, I was watching Good Morning America yesterday (Monday) morning and it looked perfect. During prime time, the shows are almost impossible to watch. I live in Forsyth, so OTA is not a possibility for me. Also, the covenants in my subdivision don't allow antennas.

I hope that they are able to get this fixed soon. Watching 24 last night was painful. If it was any other show I would have just changed to a different channel.
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post #1645 of 2151 Old 01-19-2010, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoupard View Post

I live in Forsyth, so OTA is not a possibility for me. Also, the covenants in my subdivision don't allow antennas.

Everybody in Macon is making enough power that OTA actually is an option in Forsyth.

As for covenants... http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Since 1996, Federal law has trumped such covenants, and if you want to put up an antenna, you go right and ahead. If the homeowner's association complains, you can tell 'em to go pound sand... unless they'd like to fight with the FCC.

Quote:
I hope that they are able to get this fixed soon. Watching 24 last night was painful. If it was any other show I would have just changed to a different channel.

We weren't able to watch Desperate Housewives on Sunday, but that was due to pretty consistent loss of lock by both the Dish Network OTA receiver and the receiver in the Insignia DTV... neither could stay synced for more than a few minutes.

Dish's OTA receiver is over at channel 41 in downtown, and it didn't seem to have as many problems, but there was still some pixelization/blocking.

The gang at WGXA are pretty sharp, and they've done a bang up job even getting things to work at all, with two channels in high def. There are a few problems, but they tend to be the ones that're harder to find and fix. Given time, they'll iron 'em out, I'm sure.
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post #1646 of 2151 Old 01-19-2010, 02:20 PM
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Hey Y'all:
As of Monday, the 18th, we have made adjustments to our encoders designed to alleviate the frame rate problems. I didn't get a chance to watch last night, but I will tonight. Please send any feedback you have. Thanks to all,

Ralph carson
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post #1647 of 2151 Old 01-19-2010, 06:07 PM
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Frame rate problems appear to be gone via DirecTV. Woo hoo! Thanks again Ralph.

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post #1648 of 2151 Old 01-19-2010, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddUGA View Post

Frame rate problems appear to be gone via DirecTV. Woo hoo! Thanks again Ralph.

Heh... now if we can get a reliable signal down here in Perry... there should be plenty of RF, so something else has to be happening.
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post #1649 of 2151 Old 01-20-2010, 05:29 AM
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Everything looked great on Fox24 and WGXA. Thanks!
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post #1650 of 2151 Old 01-20-2010, 12:48 PM
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I didn't watch last night but Monday I had no problems with "Castle" (using OTA). And Sunday night I don't recall any problems with "Desperate Housewives" or "Brothers & Sisters", or from the other side with "Hard Target" of which I recorded and watched later.

And I'll add to that by saying I liked "Hard Target". I will probably actually start watching a regular show from Fox.... unbelievable!

Charter Voomer
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