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post #6511 of 6837 Old 08-05-2010, 08:48 AM
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KKTV 11 News More bad news. Looks like our signal will be down for awhile longer. The part that the engineers thought would fix the problem didn't totally do the job...they are still working on it around the clock. We apologize again.
24 minutes ago
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post #6512 of 6837 Old 08-05-2010, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by lsilvest View Post

If anyone is interested, I just had the locals added to my Dish account and even though they don't include KBDI through Dish, the program information for 12.1, 12.2 and 12.3 do show up on my OTA connection on the Dish receiver.

For Scott - if you're still using BTV, I asked them to add KBDI to our locals list and they are looking into it - since they use Tribune like Dish they should be availble.

I switched to Windows 7 Media Center. I bought Beyond Media just as they released the last version forever, and it appears I did the same with BeyondTV. So rather than trying to keep it running I decided to jump to something that is actively supported. 7MC has it's pros/cons. There are some things I miss about BTV, and there are some things in 7MC that are really nice.

Scott
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post #6513 of 6837 Old 08-05-2010, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post

I switched to Windows 7 Media Center. I bought Beyond Media just as they released the last version forever, and it appears I did the same with BeyondTV. So rather than trying to keep it running I decided to jump to something that is actively supported. 7MC has it's pros/cons. There are some things I miss about BTV, and there are some things in 7MC that are really nice.

Scott

Since BTV put all of their resources into the enterprise edition I think they've lost some customers that need new features - and with MC free in 7 and more advertising about it they probably did the smart thing. I tried 7 MC but really didn't care for either 7 or the MC. I only record OTA so XP and BTV work perfectly for me. I have Dish with a DVR and such a good deal on it there wasn't any sense in getting an HD-PVR.

What I'm curious about is just how KKTV got their signal to Comcast. I thought Comcast had to use the same OTA signal available to the public. They had to have run cable or fiber to them.
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post #6514 of 6837 Old 08-14-2010, 06:30 AM
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OK, I finally bit the bullet. I have an HD TV now. Got a Panny Plasma G25 42 inch. I'm getting the HD box from Comcast this morning. However, for grins I plugged it in directly to the cable (I have basic cable, not even digital starter) last night and it picked up a few HD channels. I was watching the late night news broadcasts. KOAA led off with "Breaking news" - 2 car crash near my Apt (If it bleeds it leads ). Of the three networks, it appears KOAA had the best PQ. BTW PBS was far and away the poorest quality - A major disappointment. Maybe if they'd use the entire bandwidth of their HD broadcast it would be better - Dump Create. All were in 1080i according to the TV. I still have a long way to go as far as PQ tuning is concerned (at the moment its in THX mode).

However, here is my question: Are there any channels, networks or specialty like Animal Planet or Sports channels, that transmit 1080p PQ? What about over satellite? It seems the only way to get true uncompressed 1080p PQ is from BluRay (got one of those too - an Oppo 83 modified to make it region free). Now I can watch all that great foreign programming that PBS butchers

Thanks in advance for any information.
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post #6515 of 6837 Old 08-14-2010, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Satcom15 View Post

OK, I finally bit the bullet. I have an HD TV now. Got a Panny Plasma G25 42 inch. I'm getting the HD box from Comcast this morning. However, for grins I plugged it in directly to the cable (I have basic cable, not even digital starter) last night and it picked up a few HD channels. I was watching the late night news broadcasts. KOAA led off with "Breaking news" - 2 car crash near my Apt (If it bleeds it leads ). Of the three networks, it appears KOAA had the best PQ. BTW PBS was far and away the poorest quality - A major disappointment. Maybe if they'd use the entire bandwidth of their HD broadcast it would be better - Dump Create. All were in 1080i according to the TV. I still have a long way to go as far as PQ tuning is concerned (at the moment its in THX mode).

However, here is my question: Are there any channels, networks or specialty like Animal Planet or Sports channels, that transmit 1080p PQ? What about over satellite? It seems the only way to get true uncompressed 1080p PQ is from BluRay (got one of those too - an Oppo 83 modified to make it region free). Now I can watch all that great foreign programming that PBS butchers

Thanks in advance for any information.

PBS broadcasts 3 channels over one channel. If that makes sense. They are highly compressed to do that.

You can pull in more if you do use rabbit ears rather than the cable.

Scott
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post #6516 of 6837 Old 08-14-2010, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satcom15 View Post

OK, I finally bit the bullet. I have an HD TV now. Got a Panny Plasma G25 42 inch. I'm getting the HD box from Comcast this morning. However, for grins I plugged it in directly to the cable (I have basic cable, not even digital starter) last night and it picked up a few HD channels. I was watching the late night news broadcasts. KOAA led off with "Breaking news" - 2 car crash near my Apt (If it bleeds it leads ). Of the three networks, it appears KOAA had the best PQ. BTW PBS was far and away the poorest quality - A major disappointment. Maybe if they'd use the entire bandwidth of their HD broadcast it would be better - Dump Create. All were in 1080i according to the TV. I still have a long way to go as far as PQ tuning is concerned (at the moment its in THX mode).

However, here is my question: Are there any channels, networks or specialty like Animal Planet or Sports channels, that transmit 1080p PQ? What about over satellite? It seems the only way to get true uncompressed 1080p PQ is from BluRay (got one of those too - an Oppo 83 modified to make it region free). Now I can watch all that great foreign programming that PBS butchers

Thanks in advance for any information.

1. You have the poorest source for HD. OTA is best, D* possibly a bit better than E* but debateable but both satellites are very good. If it's analog or SD it'll look like crap on any widescreen. The only HD you'll get now is QAM on your locals.

2. There is a great variation in PQ depending on the source content. Outdoor scenes and sports are always the best. TV shows can vary greatly. Sports on Fox and CBS I think are by far the best. Watch the Masters on CBS and it's spectacular.

3. You're going to get some SD content on virtually any HD channel, but it's gotten a lot better than it was even a year ago.

4. The only 1080p I know of other than BD is some on Dish VOD, but you need a 24fps TV to handle it. Someone with D* may know if they have any yet.

5. 1080p is as much hype as reality. I've seen BD that isn't as good as some OTA. Your expectations were raised possibly too high by the hype. You'll see arguments about this, but I like my 720p plasma better than my son's 1080p Sony LCD (so does he).
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post #6517 of 6837 Old 08-14-2010, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post

PBS broadcasts 3 channels over one channel. If that makes sense. They are highly compressed to do that.

You can pull in more if you do use rabbit ears rather than the cable.

Scott

Hi Scott,
Yeah. I hooked up an antenna this morning (rabbit ears) 7 Analog (all snowy) and 17 digital (quality of course varies - KOAA 5.1 and KKTV 11.1 look the best, at least this morning). All are 1080i. For the most part they looked similar to cable. I wonder, is there any tool or method to tell what the real bit rate is and how its partitioned into the various PIDs?

RMPBS is one of the worst - Like you said, 3 channels on one digital channel. Somewhere down the road, I think I'm going to get a satellite receiver for PBS (like Gatoviejo did). I was looking around, they aren't that expensive (<$500 should do it).

Cheers.
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post #6518 of 6837 Old 08-14-2010, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by lsilvest View Post

5. 1080p is as much hype as reality. I've seen BD that isn't as good as some OTA. Your expectations were raised possibly too high by the hype. You'll see arguments about this, but I like my 720p plasma better than my son's 1080p Sony LCD (so does he).

On a 42" presuming typical sofa distances you won't see a difference between 720 and 1080, but you will see a difference between interlaced and progressive, and of course the source itself.

There was a time a while ago when one of the locals was broadcast in both 720p and 1080i. I did a ton of quick A/B tests and found that I preferred the 720p over the 1080i with my 52" at 12ft viewing distance.

I have seen outstanding BluRay, and I have seen BluRay that's worse than even the mediocre OTA locals. My take away is that as long as it's 720p or greater, it's more about the source compression and studio handling of the material than the mechanism we get it.

Scott
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post #6519 of 6837 Old 08-14-2010, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satcom15 View Post

Yeah. I hooked up an antenna this morning (rabbit ears) 7 Analog (all snowy) and 17 digital (quality of course varies - KOAA 5.1 and KKTV 11.1 look the best, at least this morning). All are 1080i. For the most part they looked similar to cable. I wonder, is there any tool or method to tell what the real bit rate is and how its partitioned into the various PIDs

I'm sure there is, but I don't have anything that can do it. One thing I have noticed is the quality jumps way up for prime time shows. Before you draw any conclusions, wait until this Fall line up starts. I think you'll be very pleased.


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RMPBS is one of the worst - Like you said, 3 channels on one digital channel. Somewhere down the road, I think I'm going to get a satellite receiver for PBS (like Gatoviejo did). I was looking around, they aren't that expensive (<$500 should do it).

I gotta ask.. just for PBS? I believe there are multiple reasons RMBPS stations suck. It's broadcast in Denver and there is a relay station on a mountain somewhere near the Palmer Divide and another broadcast on the top of Cheyenne Mountain. When we had troubles with that relay station I got a sense the relay station is clobbering the quality in addition to the compression to fit three digital stations onto one physical channel.

Scott
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post #6520 of 6837 Old 08-14-2010, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post

I'm sure there is, but I don't have anything that can do it. One thing I have noticed is the quality jumps way up for prime time shows. Before you draw any conclusions, wait until this Fall line up starts. I think you'll be very pleased.

Oh, no doubt. I have a feeling the stations/networks devote more bits (less compression and reduction in bits to other PIDs) to primetime programming.



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I gotta ask.. just for PBS? I believe there are multiple reasons RMBPS stations suck. It's broadcast in Denver and there is a relay station on a mountain somewhere near the Palmer Divide and another broadcast on the top of Cheyenne Mountain. When we had troubles with that relay station I got a sense the relay station is clobbering the quality in addition to the compression to fit three digital stations onto one physical channel.

I agree on the Microwave relay introducing noise. However, I had a note from a KTSC station engineer earlier in the year (because of my griping about all the digital error artifacts - frozen frames, blockiness, dropped audio) that they were going to get a fiber studio to cable head end link soon to cure some of those problems. Not sure if that happened yet or not. Still, cramming 3 channels into one HD channel for OTA is the pitts. Back to your question, yes. At least initially, there would be the satellite reciever for PBS only. I don't have the space for a motorized antenna (even a 3 ft Ku-Band) at my apt. Also, a fixed dish won't raise as much suspicion (it looks like a DTV or E-Star dish). Finally, I'm not terribly interested in other channels broadcast by satellite at the moment. That might change, but for now PBS HD is all I'm really want.

Cheers
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post #6521 of 6837 Old 08-14-2010, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Satcom15 View Post

Oh, no doubt. I have a feeling the stations/networks devote more bits (less compression and reduction in bits to other PIDs) to primetime programming.





I agree on the Microwave relay introducing noise. However, I had a note from a KTSC station engineer earlier in the year (because of my griping about all the digital error artifacts - frozen frames, blockiness, dropped audio) that they were going to get a fiber studio to cable head end link soon to cure some of those problems. Not sure if that happened yet or not. Still, cramming 3 channels into one HD channel for OTA is the pitts. Back to your question, yes. At least initially, there would be the satellite reciever for PBS only. I don't have the space for a motorized antenna (even a 3 ft Ku-Band) at my apt. Also, a fixed dish won't raise as much suspicion (it looks like a DTV or E-Star dish). Finally, I'm not terribly interested in other channels broadcast by satellite at the moment. That might change, but for now PBS HD is all I'm really want.

Cheers

I'm not talking about the relay station adding noise. That's more of an analog concern. This is an entirely digital broadcast from Denver, through the relay, to the local broadcast tower on Cheyenne Mountain. What I'm referring to is it isn't just a "relay" and it may be doing more switching type stuff which may be using older analog gear, etc, etc. If you pay attention to some of the locals you'll see what I'm talking about. The broadcast is 1080i, but you can tell they are still using way old crap NTSC standard def gear somewhere in the middle of the stream. You'll see it.

Scott
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post #6522 of 6837 Old 08-15-2010, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Satcom15 View Post

OK, I finally bit the bullet. I have an HD TV now. Got a Panny Plasma G25 42 inch. I'm getting the HD box from Comcast this morning. However, for grins I plugged it in directly to the cable (I have basic cable, not even digital starter) last night and it picked up a few HD channels. I was watching the late night news broadcasts. KOAA led off with "Breaking news" - 2 car crash near my Apt (If it bleeds it leads ). Of the three networks, it appears KOAA had the best PQ. BTW PBS was far and away the poorest quality - A major disappointment. Maybe if they'd use the entire bandwidth of their HD broadcast it would be better - Dump Create. All were in 1080i according to the TV. I still have a long way to go as far as PQ tuning is concerned (at the moment its in THX mode).

However, here is my question: Are there any channels, networks or specialty like Animal Planet or Sports channels, that transmit 1080p PQ? What about over satellite? It seems the only way to get true uncompressed 1080p PQ is from BluRay (got one of those too - an Oppo 83 modified to make it region free). Now I can watch all that great foreign programming that PBS butchers

Thanks in advance for any information.

Yeah!

D* has a lot of 1080p (VOD) & it looks awesome! PQ is 2nd only to BRD in my opinion.

I thought KRDO was broadcast in 720p.
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post #6523 of 6837 Old 08-21-2010, 12:58 PM
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Does anyone have any inside info on KRDO/Directv conflict? Looks like it could be another long,drawn out contract deal. Can't understand why when it was just a year ago or so the agreement was signed to carry the HD signal.KRDO sure seems to have a conflict with DTV as there on-air message mentions DISH by name as being an alternative to Directv!?? If anyone knows more about this please post.
Thanks
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post #6524 of 6837 Old 08-21-2010, 04:03 PM
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I thought KRDO was broadcast in 720p.

It is and so is Fox.
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post #6525 of 6837 Old 08-21-2010, 05:19 PM
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It is and so is Fox.

But, but my TV says 1080i when I check it. It must be true, it must.
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post #6526 of 6837 Old 08-21-2010, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Satcom15 View Post

But, but my TV says 1080i when I check it. It must be true, it must.

If the set says it's 1080i, I would believe it's 1080i.

BTW... was in the park next to your apartments today with my son. I was surprised no one was there on a Saturday. Anything going on that you know of?
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post #6527 of 6837 Old 08-22-2010, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post

If the set says it's 1080i, I would believe it's 1080i.

It's only 1080i if it's upconverted by your provider or the source shows it as 1080. I have Dish and my DVR is set to 1080i output, so the TV shows it as 1080i. For OTA, it shows 720p which is what both ABC and Fox use. In either case, you couldn't tell the difference. The fact is it's almost irrelevant since most of us can't tell the difference between 720 and 1080 anyway (unless you have a very large screen).
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post #6528 of 6837 Old 08-22-2010, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by lsilvest View Post

It's only 1080i if it's upconverted by your provider or the source shows it as 1080. I have Dish and my DVR is set to 1080i output, so the TV shows it as 1080i. For OTA, it shows 720p which is what both ABC and Fox use. In either case, you couldn't tell the difference. The fact is it's almost irrelevant since most of us can't tell the difference between 720 and 1080 anyway (unless you have a very large screen).

I gotcha. I guess the important point here is the signal to your TV is one thing, but that doesn't mean anything about all of the clobbering that goes on from original recording/broadcast until it hits the final device before your set.

I've seen 1080p that's worse than NTSC.

Scott
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post #6529 of 6837 Old 08-22-2010, 11:02 AM
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I gotcha. I guess the important point here is the signal to your TV is one thing, but that doesn't mean anything about all of the clobbering that goes on from original recording/broadcast until it hits the final device before your set.

I've seen 1080p that's worse than NTSC.

Scott

Hi Scott,
Nothing went on in the park as far as I know. It would seem the scan rate and the data rate could be different to the point where a 1080p (or 1080i, or 720p), thus your comment. Incidentally, it seems the KOAA news broadcast (OTA and cable) is the best quality of the three networks here. And in general KTSC is just plain poor most of the time. I wish they would dump those secondary channels (at least one) as well as remove some of the bit filling during primetime. That PBS satellite feed keeps looking better all the time.

BTW does anyone have a Hauppage (or similar card) that can give us the latest bit vs PID information for the local major channels?
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post #6530 of 6837 Old 08-22-2010, 11:40 AM
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Hi Scott,
Nothing went on in the park as far as I know. It would seem the scan rate and the data rate could be different to the point where a 1080p (or 1080i, or 720p), thus your comment. Incidentally, it seems the KOAA news broadcast (OTA and cable) is the best quality of the three networks here. And in general KTSC is just plain poor most of the time. I wish they would dump those secondary channels (at least one) as well as remove some of the bit filling during primetime. That PBS satellite feed keeps looking better all the time.

BTW does anyone have a Hauppage (or similar card) that can give us the latest bit vs PID information for the local major channels?

I think things change once you hit prime time. They probably drop those other channels to crap. In general, I've noticed any of the important shows are excellent quality.

I have an HD HomeRun. If you know that it can provide the information I'll gladly dig it up. I plan on buying a Hauppauge but haven't done so yet.

Scott
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post #6531 of 6837 Old 08-22-2010, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post

I think things change once you hit prime time. They probably drop those other channels to crap. In general, I've noticed any of the important shows are excellent quality.

I have an HD HomeRun. If you know that it can provide the information I'll gladly dig it up. I plan on buying a Hauppauge but haven't done so yet.

Scott

Could be that they do drop the bit rate on those ancillary channels, except RMPBS. Its the pitts here in CO. Nebraska (NETV) has seperate channels for all the PBS national feed programming - no cramming of three channels into one and using fillers. BTW, I did see that KRDO is 720p during their news broadcast - pathetic. And I noticed the difference between them and KOAA. The KOAA images were just a little sharper and richer in color. I guess that's the price we pay for living in a smaller market - TV stations too cheap to make major investments in system upgrades.

I don't think you can get the data from the HD Homerun, but maybe you can. I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm thinking of getting a hauppage card when I get some bones if nothing else but to monitor transmissions (its the electronics geek in me - LOL ). All in all I really like the panny plasma (P42G25). The blacks are deep and I don't see any digital artifacts even with lots of motion. I'm going to check things out during the football game on NBC this evening. All in all, I think it may be better than an LCD. Regardless, its a quantum leap from my 13 in analog CRT. Image quality is excellent. Even my GF was impressed - always a good thing.
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post #6532 of 6837 Old 08-22-2010, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Satcom15 View Post

Could be that they do drop the bit rate on those ancillary channels, except RMPBS. Its the pitts here in CO. Nebraska (NETV) has seperate channels for all the PBS national feed programming - no cramming of three channels into one and using fillers. BTW, I did see that KRDO is 720p during their news broadcast - pathetic. And I noticed the difference between them and KOAA. The KOAA images were just a little sharper and richer in color. I guess that's the price we pay for living in a smaller market - TV stations too cheap to make major investments in system upgrades.

I don't think you can get the data from the HD Homerun, but maybe you can. I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm thinking of getting a hauppage card when I get some bones if nothing else but to monitor transmissions (its the electronics geek in me - LOL ). All in all I really like the panny plasma (P42G25). The blacks are deep and I don't see any digital artifacts even with lots of motion. I'm going to check things out during the football game on NBC this evening. All in all, I think it may be better than an LCD. Regardless, its a quantum leap from my 13 in analog CRT. Image quality is excellent. Even my GF was impressed - always a good thing.

Plasma should be much better than LCD in practically every PQ measurement there is. People get scared of the plasma pitfalls that the industry has since figured out. So you're in good hands with that plasma. We're gonna get one this Xmas to replace our dying XBR4.

I'm waiting for the Hauppauge that I want to buy to come on sale. Long story why I'm holding out.

Scott
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post #6533 of 6837 Old 08-23-2010, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwrx View Post

Does anyone have any inside info on KRDO/Directv conflict? Looks like it could be another long,drawn out contract deal. Can't understand why when it was just a year ago or so the agreement was signed to carry the HD signal.KRDO sure seems to have a conflict with DTV as there on-air message mentions DISH by name as being an alternative to Directv!?? If anyone knows more about this please post.
Thanks

Not inside info, but the latest from KRDO
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post #6534 of 6837 Old 08-23-2010, 10:15 AM
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I have no insider knowledge on the KRDO/DirecTV dilemma, but since no other stations here in town have had issues like this with DirecTV, I'm gonna side with DirecTV here. No brainer to me!! I watch KOAA for my 10:00 news and certainly will not be switching to KRDO with this crap they have pulled twice in the last year now.

On the bright side with KRDO, I got an email from Tim Larson last week regarding Dolby Digital and this is what he had to say:

We are installing all new servers and audio equipment so that we can broadcast in Dolby 5.1. However, I don't have a completion date, probably a month or two.

Tim


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post #6535 of 6837 Old 08-23-2010, 11:55 AM
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I'm gonna side with DirecTV here.

On the bright side with KRDO, I got an email from Tim Larson last week regarding Dolby Digital and this is what he had to say:

We are installing all new servers and audio equipment so that we can broadcast in Dolby 5.1. However, I don't have a completion date, probably a month or two.

Tim


Great news on the Dolby (except the last I had talked to them the target was last spring). They've ruined a number of concerts in the last couple of years that sounded much better when run later on CMT or Palladia in Dolby.

As to D* - I would have a tendency to side with them except that E* has an agreement and they are much more inclined to balk at high prices than anyone - in fact they dropped Disney, ESPNews and ABC fam HD from their programming because of disputes about rates. Then again, it may not be coincidental that all are part of the Disney family.
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post #6536 of 6837 Old 08-24-2010, 10:17 AM
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my feeling all along has been this is a clash of egos/personalities going on.

Sonny: "You're taking this very personal. Tom, this is business and this man is taking it very personal."

Comcast, E.D.L.
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post #6537 of 6837 Old 08-24-2010, 10:40 AM
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Plasma should be much better than LCD in practically every PQ measurement there is. People get scared of the plasma pitfalls that the industry has since figured out. So you're in good hands with that plasma. We're gonna get one this Xmas to replace our dying XBR4.

I'm waiting for the Hauppauge that I want to buy to come on sale. Long story why I'm holding out.

Scott

What part of Springs are you in. My son is next to Monument and prefers plasma but got an LCD because of the altitude and didn't want to pay more for the few models made for altitude. Curious if regular plasmas work ok in that area.
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post #6538 of 6837 Old 08-24-2010, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by lsilvest View Post

What part of Springs are you in. My son is next to Monument and prefers plasma but got an LCD because of the altitude and didn't want to pay more for the few models made for altitude. Curious if regular plasmas work ok in that area.

I don't own a plasma but I'm about to buy one and just did this research myself a couple of weeks ago. From the research I've been doing the "high altitude plasma" is a thing of the past. All plasmas are rated up to an elevation. Find a model you like and see what it's rated for. Based on my research, most models are good up to about 9,000ft MSL before you get the plasma buzz.

Scott
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post #6539 of 6837 Old 08-24-2010, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post

I don't own a plasma but I'm about to buy one and just did this research myself a couple of weeks ago. From the research I've been doing the "high altitude plasma" is a thing of the past. All plasmas are rated up to an elevation. Find a model you like and see what it's rated for. Based on my research, most models are good up to about 9,000ft MSL before you get the plasma buzz.

Scott

Thanks for the info. I hadn't paid any attention since I bought mine over 4 yrs ago. Too bad my son didn't do his due diligence. Think he was going on the past information and he is up close to 7,000 ft.
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post #6540 of 6837 Old 08-24-2010, 06:52 PM
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Thanks for the info. I hadn't paid any attention since I bought mine over 4 yrs ago. Too bad my son didn't do his due diligence. Think he was going on the past information and he is up close to 7,000 ft.

Well, when I bought the TV over at the Ultra Store, the rep told me that there some people that were returning sets because of hum. Ancedotal evidence suggests hum typically occurs above 7200 to 7400 feet (based on the altitude of the people returning sets). I have no idea what the sample size is though (2? 5? 10?). And, how many people that live above 7200 feet have had no problems? Don't know. I live at 6800 ft in Briargate and everything works great so far.
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