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post #721 of 6837 Old 12-17-2003, 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by Frank Zimkas
Dishnetwork 921DVR[/url]

Personally, having had E* products before, I'm awaiting the imminent arrival of the HD-TiVo.

Chance
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post #722 of 6837 Old 12-19-2003, 07:17 AM
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Looks like in addition to the Sunday Night Broncos game on ESPN-HD, the following Sunday's Broncos-Packers game is going to be in CBS HD. Two in a row again! http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=300612

But then the first round of the wildcard playoffs are apparently on ABC, so Colorado Springs is screwed even if ABC does produce them in HD. Merry Christmas, KRDO! P.S. We love you too, KOAA!
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post #723 of 6837 Old 12-19-2003, 03:41 PM
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I was glad to see that too... but was also mad ABC gets the playoff games which will be in HD. O-well maybe next year :-/

Go Broncos!
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post #724 of 6837 Old 12-21-2003, 07:10 AM
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I caught part of the Pats vs. Jets last night on ESPN-HD. The PQ was beyond compare. Hope some of the engineers watch the Broncos game tonight, they might learn a thing or two about what HD should look like. No artifacts, no pixel issues and great 5.1 sound.

The current issue of S&V Magazine has a really great article regarding ESPN's HD efforts. A good read if your interested.

I got some junk scattered around the house...
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post #725 of 6837 Old 12-21-2003, 10:03 AM
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ESPN-HD is broadcast in 720P which is less susceptible to macroblocking
in high motion video, like football. And they are not limited to the 19.4 M/B
stream rate. Our particular MPEG encoder, a Tandburg E5821, will only
allow 17.46 M/B rate. This is to leave room for the sound, PSIP, and other
things. If you set the rate to high, you stand the chance over running
the receive buffer which causes freeze frame in the receiver.

Tim Timora
KKTV
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post #726 of 6837 Old 12-21-2003, 10:52 AM
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Tim,
I knew about the 720p vs. 1080i with regards to PQ during rapid action scenes, but your info is excellant for those of us trying to understand the in's and out's of HD in general. Glad you jumped in, and I think we all could learn alot about KKTV's DTV broadcast if you would be able sift through some questions.

My question is this;

I'm watching KKTV-DT on a Mits 55" set and a Dishnetwork 6000 receiver. I see alot of pixelazation during close up shots of the CBS-HD football games and some of the primetime programming as well. There have been other posts with similar PQ issues. Is this caused by the signal you get from CBS, the available stream rate you mentioned, or something else? It gets a bit frustrating, not mention distracting as well. I'm sure the belly aching from viewers has the same effect on you guys though!

FWIW, I'm glad to see KKTV-DT advertising the fact that they are now on the air in 1080i. Kudos to you folks.

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post #727 of 6837 Old 12-21-2003, 12:42 PM
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"I caught part of the Pats vs. Jets last night on ESPN-HD. The PQ was beyond compare. Hope some of the engineers watch the Broncos game tonight, they might learn a thing or two about what HD should look like. No artifacts, no pixel issues and great 5.1 sound. "

It was a great looking game, the only thing was the wide-shots were definently less detailed than then CBS-HD production on earlier in the day. ESPN-HD may not be limited to 19.3Mb/s.. but I think with any recordings it is shown that D* doesn't give it nearly that much.
Also, the D* version of the Sunday CBS-HD weekly game does pixelate less than KKTVs. I'm also pretty sure this is only getting a max of 19.3Mbps, and probably less. It still does pixelate on those closeup pans, but not as much as KKTV. That partially happens to be a flaw in the 1080i system all-together since it actually needs more then 19.3Mbps to not pixelate on fast moving scenes.

Also, ESPN doesn't have 5.1 surround sound, just their analog Circle Surround.

Tim, thanks for posting here! We really do appreciate an inside look at things that we can't fully understand.

Frank, do you really notice pixelation on the primetime shows? I haven't seen any with them in awhile on the shows, at least since KKTV fixed whatever they were doing in the beginning of the football season which left any semi-fast scene pixelated. Also, people in other cities aren't seeing this, so I have a feeling it has something to do with KKTV somehow. I agree though, I'm glad to see them advertising the fact that they are the first, and currently the only local station in HD.

BTW: I am basing all my ESPN-HD comments on watching it on D* through my E86 which upconverts it to 1080i for my Mitsu 65809 which doesn't handle 720p. I still haven't seen it on a 720p display.

Go Broncos!
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post #728 of 6837 Old 12-21-2003, 12:57 PM
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I found this on the ESPN-HD site.

*In order to make the most of ESPN HD, look for a receiver with the SRS Circle Surround logo on the faceplate. ESPN HD uses this encoding system for their 5.1 surround sound track! Dolby Pro-Logic and Dolby Pro-Logic II decoders will also be able to produce a surround sound effect with the ESPN HD audio track.

Regarding the pixel issue, yes I do notice it during some of the primetime shows. It gennarally happens during close-up rapid action scenes, not as bad as watching a sporting event, but it is visible. Maybe it's because I'm watching on a bigger TV that makes it more obvious.

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post #729 of 6837 Old 12-21-2003, 01:44 PM
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I see... I didn't think they actually claimed it was 5.1... I guess DPII is 5.1 then too, but I still consider DD5.1 to be on a level above CS or DPII.

I'm on a large TV too, 65". I will assume I haven't seen the pixelation because I just don't watch much of their primetime programming.

Go Broncos!
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post #730 of 6837 Old 12-21-2003, 03:41 PM
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Something new I just noticed... KXRM-DT has guide data on 21-1... anyone else seeing this too?

Go Broncos!
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post #731 of 6837 Old 12-21-2003, 07:43 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Frank Zimkas
I found this on the ESPN-HD site.

*In order to make the most of ESPN HD, look for a receiver with the SRS Circle Surround logo on the faceplate. ESPN HD uses this encoding system for their 5.1 surround sound track! Dolby Pro-Logic and Dolby Pro-Logic II decoders will also be able to produce a surround sound effect with the ESPN HD audio track.

I wonder why they use this. There's no 5.1 for the Broncos on my system. I hadn't watched enough Sunday Night Football before to notice that our "regular" receivers can't get ESPN's 5.1 surround sound. When they say "surround sound effect" above, I guess they're just talking about the AV receiver's ability to send 2 channels to all speakers. It doesn't seem like surround to me.
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post #732 of 6837 Old 12-21-2003, 07:58 PM
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Kinda strange, I'm only getting the "L" & "R" speakers indicated on mine tonight as well.

I got some junk scattered around the house...
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post #733 of 6837 Old 12-21-2003, 10:46 PM
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It was in surround for me, it's really VERY similar to Dolby Prologic II. I think a blind test was done and DPII was picked over Circle Surround.

What a game though! How about a rematch in two weeks with Clinton Portis and Griffin :-)
So now we have outplayed the 3 top teams of the AFC everytime we've played them this season. Two against the Chiefs, one against NE, and now one against Indy. We even shoulda won the NE game with Kanell.

Go Broncos!
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post #734 of 6837 Old 12-22-2003, 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by chanceG
Personally, having had E* products before, I'm awaiting the imminent arrival of the HD-TiVo.

You too? I am just warning you, don't get in between me and the store on the first day of availability! :-)

--Ron
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post #735 of 6837 Old 12-22-2003, 09:15 AM
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FYI - DirecTV announced on Thursday that the HD-DirecTiVo will be available in the first quarter of 2004. http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/aboutu...id=12_18_2003A
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post #736 of 6837 Old 12-22-2003, 09:40 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Vaggeto
Something new I just noticed... KXRM-DT has guide data on 21-1... anyone else seeing this too?

Yes, I have the guide data for 21-1, and the interesting thing is -- it must not be coming from the signal itself because I haven't received that channel for at least 2 weeks. (Aforementioned antenna problems, hopefully to be solved Friday with a big honkin' antenna.) So my guide data must be coming in via DirecTV, either phone line or on the satellite feed, I'm not sure which. The guide data is exactly like what it picks up for the DirecTV SD channel 21, except that it shows "SIGN OFF" for midnight through noon each day on 21-1.

Speaking of guide data I don't totally understand, in the last week or so there is real guide data on the receiver (Samsung SIR-TS160) for KKTV-DT, but it's showing on channel 10 listed as KKTVDT (with no dash). Of course there's no picture on channel 10 but it has good guide data. I'm getting KKTV's HD picture on 11-1 listed as KKTV-DT (with a dash), with no guide data. I don't think the Samsung has any options to combine or map these together. The guide data showing now as channel 10 would be very nice to have on the right channel for when you change the channel to 11-1 -- besides the program info, the HD icon does show up correctly for the CBS shows that are HD. This must be coming via DirecTV but someone's set it up with the actual VHF frequency instead of the digital equivalent. Does anyone else have anything like this? I can't tell if it's specific to DirecTV's guide or to the Samsung receiver. Or if this guide data is a public common database, maybe it's the same on E*.

Of course, for 13-1 KRDO, there's no guide data at all.
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post #737 of 6837 Old 12-22-2003, 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by rvaniwaa
You too? I am just warning you, don't get in between me and the store on the first day of availability! :-)

Me first, me first!

Having had a large DLP (HLN-567) since last summer, I'm chompin' at the bit to get HD content on it. I borrowed a buddy's OTA HD Rcvr last month and it looked fantastic. Too bad it won't be here for the Super Bowl. Can't wait!

Chance
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post #738 of 6837 Old 12-22-2003, 12:13 PM
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Tallguy, I think it must be coming through the phone line. I've got the Sammy 160 (not plugged into the phone) and I don't show guide data for any of the 3 digital stations.

HD-TiVo would be sweet, but it looks like they're going to be costly. Can't remember where I saw it, but I think they were easily over $500 each. But to have a library of Bikini Destinations and all the new Sopranos in HD...
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post #739 of 6837 Old 12-22-2003, 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by chanceG
Me first, me first!

Having had a large DLP (HLN-567) since last summer, I'm chompin' at the bit to get HD content on it. I borrowed a buddy's OTA HD Rcvr last month and it looked fantastic. Too bad it won't be here for the Super Bowl. Can't wait!

You sound just like me. I have an HLM-617 that I bought in April and my buddy brings by his DirecTV HD receiver every once in a while when we watch a game at my house. Boy is it beautiful!

--Ron
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post #740 of 6837 Old 12-22-2003, 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by rvaniwaa
You sound just like me. I have an HLM-617 that I bought in April and my buddy brings by his DirecTV HD receiver every once in a while when we watch a game at my house. Boy is it beautiful!

Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. Ooooh, the big dog. SoundTrack gave me 617 as a loaner for two months until my 567 came in. It sure was nice.

Chance
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post #741 of 6837 Old 12-22-2003, 12:52 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Jeremy Tebo
HD-TiVo would be sweet, but it looks like they're going to be costly.

Rumors from another thread are $899 for a Samsung and $699 for a Hughes with smaller recording capacity. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...99#post3061906 Wonder how much I'll get for my Samsung 160 on eBay?

There are other threads with lots more HD-TiVo information.
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post #742 of 6837 Old 12-22-2003, 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by chanceG
Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. Ooooh, the big dog. SoundTrack gave me 617 as a loaner for two months until my 567 came in. It sure was nice.

You guys need to get a real screen.

Try 106" front projection for size. Watching the Broncos in High Def on this screen is just like being there without freezing my toes off. Can't wait until Sunday!!

Russ
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post #743 of 6837 Old 12-22-2003, 08:13 PM
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Hehe... what about when they're in SD?

Go Broncos!
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post #744 of 6837 Old 12-22-2003, 10:19 PM
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Wonder how much I'll get for my Samsung 160 on eBay?

Looks like we could probably get $400 or so for them. Definitely a possibility for me to upgrade, we'll see.
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post #745 of 6837 Old 12-23-2003, 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by Vaggeto
Hehe... what about when they're in SD?

For the most part, CBS is fine because it is digital. FOX too for that matter. I don't watch much other SD on that size screen. It is a theater meant for movies and high def events.
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post #746 of 6837 Old 12-25-2003, 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by rajkej
You guys need to get a real screen.

Try 106" front projection for size. Watching the Broncos in High Def on this screen is just like being there without freezing my toes off. Can't wait until Sunday!!

Russ

Looks like you've got a PLV-70 according to your profile. I had the Studio Experience version (the 20HD) at my last projector shootout. How do you like it?

I finally went from a 92" DaLite High Contrast Cinema Vision to a 110" Firehawk with my demo Screenplay 7200 - great combo. The Firehawk really punches up the blacks and hardly washes out even during the day.

Anyone here check out VOOM? I'm using Adelphia HD and am waiting to go to satellite as soon as the PVRs finally become available. I watch so little TV mainly because I can't stand being ruled by a TV schedule - having to be in front of your TV at precisely 7 pm, etc. I am intrigued by VOOM's programming, even contacted them, but no word as to if and when they will come out with a PVR. Even so, anyone tried it? How is picture quality?

THANKS!!!

JOHN


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post #747 of 6837 Old 12-25-2003, 10:37 PM
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I noticed KKTV-DT now has guide data like Fox now... Unless the stations started sending the guide data out, I'm 100% sure it is coming from D*. What you need to do is set your zipcode and in addition to the analog locals/cable locals having guide data, Fox and CBS now have it too. Kinda nice because I used to leave the one with the guide data there just for that guide, and then after I saw what was on it go up to the Digital OTA version. Now I can remove those.

Go Broncos!
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post #748 of 6837 Old 12-26-2003, 05:39 AM
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John,
FWIW, I just got my Dishnetwork 921DVR the day before Christmas and have been going through all the features (at least trying to!) and am really pleased with it's performance. Being able to pause live TV, skip through commercials, replay, etc, ....I've been want one for a long time!!!!

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post #749 of 6837 Old 12-26-2003, 08:02 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by angilasaurus
Looks like you've got a PLV-70 according to your profile. I had the Studio Experience version (the 20HD) at my last projector shootout. How do you like it?
JOHN

I have loved my PLV-70 ever since I got it just a few weeks into production. I had the standard problem with the filters so I had to install the pre-filter mentioned in the PLV70 thread. Other than that, the PQ is great for my uses (HDTV 1080i and DVD's). I use a Draper Cineperm 106" screen. I haven't really tried anything else to directly compare it with but when I see other theaters nothing has matched the PLV70.

Russ
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post #750 of 6837 Old 12-26-2003, 10:04 AM
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Frank - thanks for the info on the 921DVR! I've been waiting for the HD-PVRs for years! Now may finally be the time to move to satellite.

Russ - Isn't front projection great? I simply love it, for picture quality and unmatched impact.

Do you use DVI with you PLV-70? If not, you might invest in some DVI equipped gear! I think AVS sells the Bravo DVD player, plus you can get the Samsung at places like Circuit City. A home theater PC works great as well, and has other advantages (I love my HTPC). In both of my shootouts involving the PLV-70/20HD, the DVI connection made dramatic improvements in picture quality in dark scenes. I don't know for sure whether or not it was from the superior deinterlacing and processing of the source, or just the fact that it is digital. All I know is it made a much more dramatic improvement on the LCD projectors than the DLP, which looked great on component to begin with.

JOHN


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