The HD Stacker reception - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By ProjectSHO89
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 Old 07-13-2013, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
vakeroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello everyone!!!

For the past few weeks I decided to cut the outrageous satellite bill off. I've been doing some reading here online and asking a few people in the area about OTA reception. Anyways, I made the initial decision and purchase the RCA ANT751 placed 15ft high. I was very impressed to see there is reception of a few channels from towers almost 50 miles away so I added a Winegard AP-8700 Amplifier and see a little further. The Amplifier added a few more channels which made me happy.

This was all done according to tvfool.com
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46aecd9a0613ec

Now, it was really good to see this reception so I decided to experiment a little more and purchase Denny's HD Stacker and complement it with the Winegard AP-8700 Amplifier and place it 25ft high. Now, to my surprise the reception was worse. I lost a few channels 50, 45, and 29 channels went away, not counting channels I had really good reception went to very weak reception. My intent here is to receive as many channels from 160 to 170 degrees.

I know I'm not an expert, but at the same time I think I know what I'm doing. All my cables and connections are Eagle RG6 quad shield. So I don't see any reason why the HD Stacker is giving me such low performance. The RCA ANT751 does a better job, why?...

I just ordered and received an Kitztech TV Booster KT-200-COAX TV Antenna Booster Remote Power - Coax Fed and see if the lower noise factor makes a difference.

Do you guys think my problem is the HD Stacker antenna? At this point I'm very closed to send the HD Stacker back and continue with trial and error.

Doing some further reading I found the The DAT HD 75 BOSS from Televes. Has anybody had any experiences with this product?

I am seriously considering stacking Xtreme Signal HDB91x and the Antennacraft Y10713. Does it sound like a good idea?

Do you guys think the Channel Master 5020 is a better idea?

If you are reading my post, thank you for your time and I hope some of the more experienced guys can guide me on OTA reception troubleshooting.
vakeroo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 07-14-2013, 04:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,624
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Do you guys think my problem is the HD Stacker antenna? At this point I'm very closed to send the HD Stacker back and continue with trial and error.

Yes, send it back. No, do NOT continue with trial and error. Your situation is not one that needs trial and error, it needs logical analysis.

ALL of your available channels are UHF, you have ZERO VHF channels available to you. Therefore, you would do best with a very directional UHF antenna such as the 91XG, DB8e, or another long UHF Yagi or 8-bay panel UHF antenna. You have no need for an antenna with the longer VHF elements.

The lower noise figure of the KT200 (over the AP8700) is unlikely to make a significant difference. Your most immediate problem is the strong signal from KRWG which will likely send most pre-amps, especially after a high-gain UHF antenna, into compression. This will result in desensitization of blocking of weaker signals. Neither amp you have is likely to do well in this situation without a deep notch filter for channel 23. Quite honestly, your best bet would be to re-purpose a PCT or Channel Master single output drop amp as a pre-amp. Not may other pre-amps can offer such a balance between decent noise figure, medium gain, and overload resistance.

Your location is a difficult one due to the hill or mountain that the desired transmitters are behind and your proximity to that PBS station. Expect significant challenges and be patient in trying multiple mounting locations.
ProjectSHO89 is online now  
post #3 of 21 Old 07-14-2013, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
vakeroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you ProjectSHO89, I appreciate your input on this thread. As you mentioned, I actually have a Channel Master CM-3414 just sitting here and I'm going to try it out as you mentioned since the Kitztech TV Booster KT-200-COAX did not do any better than Wineguard AP-8700.

If this does not have any reasonable changes, I will take the HD Stacker down and send it back today, I could utilize those dollars to purchase the Televes DAT HD 75 BOSS since it has a pre-amp which it has an automatic signal balance mode. Sounds like this company does very well in Europe and South America.
vakeroo is offline  
post #4 of 21 Old 07-14-2013, 02:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tylerSC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mauldin SC, 29607
Posts: 4,105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 92
The HD Stacker is indeed unnecessary if there are no HiVHF stations. A good long range UHF antenna is the Winegard 9095HD, or the Antennas Direct 91XG. But you may also consider the Extreme Signal version from Solid Signal, their 91X model. Priced at $49. As far as the preamps, those Channel Master dist amps can be used as a preamp as long as you have a remote power supply. You could try the remote power supply from the Kitztech before you send it back, just to see if the CM dist amp works. Then order the PCT/Channel Master power supply from PCTstore, Channelmasterstore, or Amazon whichever cheaper. Usually around $599. And the single port amp from Channel Master may work better at 15db if the other version does not. I believe it is CM-3410 model. But those Kitztech preamps are very good amps with a low noise figure. I have a mix of strong and weak signals, and both Winegard versions had overload and pixilation issues for me. The Kitztech 200 and original CM-7777 did not.
tylerSC is offline  
post #5 of 21 Old 07-14-2013, 02:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tylerSC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mauldin SC, 29607
Posts: 4,105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by vakeroo View Post

Thank you ProjectSHO89, I appreciate your input on this thread. As you mentioned, I actually have a Channel Master CM-3414 just sitting here and I'm going to try it out as you mentioned since the Kitztech TV Booster KT-200-COAX did not do any better than Wineguard AP-8700.

If this does not have any reasonable changes, I will take the HD Stacker down and send it back today, I could utilize those dollars to purchase the Televes DAT HD 75 BOSS since it has a pre-amp which it has an automatic signal balance mode. Sounds like this company does very well in Europe and South America.
Do they now have a U.S. distributor for Televes antennas? They are reportedly good performing antennas, but a bit pricey and difficult to purchase domestically. Can you provide a source?
tylerSC is offline  
post #6 of 21 Old 07-14-2013, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
vakeroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I found them for very reasonable price at ebay.
Just do a search or call them directly at their site I provided.
They have a store in Englewood, CO.
vakeroo is offline  
post #7 of 21 Old 07-15-2013, 03:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,624
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 69
The Televes DAT-75 with the built-in pre-amp will overload from KRWC. Specifications state a maximum signal input of 75 dBuV (-34 dBm). KRCG's signal is predicted to be more than 15 dB stronger than that.

If you can re-locate that CM3414 to the mast head as a test, you'll know if a distribution amp will work for your situation.

Time to stop looking for magic bullets, there aren't any.
ProjectSHO89 is online now  
post #8 of 21 Old 07-15-2013, 03:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tylerSC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mauldin SC, 29607
Posts: 4,105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 92
MCM has a triple boom yagi similar to the Televes for $39. Stellar Labs. And also a version with a built in amp for a bit more. But I'm not sure if those triple booms actually provide triple the gain
tylerSC is offline  
post #9 of 21 Old 07-16-2013, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
vakeroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sorry guys, I've been getting out late from work and the rain hasn't allowed me to get on the roof yet.

I was reading on Channel Master CM-5020, does anybody has any experience with these antennas?

Do you guys think a very directional yagi UFH antenna with an attenuator could also work?

ProjectSHO89, what do you think? You seem a very knowledgeable guy on this matter.
vakeroo is offline  
post #10 of 21 Old 07-16-2013, 12:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Digital Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,648
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 13
You have NO VHF stations available, so the 5030 is not the antenna for your situation. Any of the suggested UHF antennas would be a good choice. (I personally like the 91-XG)The 3414 amp you already have is also an excellent product & will NOT require attenuation. The 3414 is an amazing performer & difficult to overload.
Digital Rules is offline  
post #11 of 21 Old 07-16-2013, 06:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tylerSC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mauldin SC, 29607
Posts: 4,105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

You have NO VHF stations available, so the 5030 is not the antenna for your situation. Any of the suggested UHF antennas would be a good choice. (I personally like the 91-XG)The 3414 amp you already have is also an excellent product & will NOT require attenuation. The 3414 is an amazing performer & difficult to overload.
I agree here. Get a 91XG UHF antenna or the cheaper Extreme Signal version. No VHF antenna needed. Use your existing CM-3414 as a preamp with a remote power supply. Put terminator caps on any unused ports. Probably the best option.
tylerSC is offline  
post #12 of 21 Old 07-16-2013, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
vakeroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, today I had a chance to get on the roof and I did as ProjectSHO89 suggested. I got rid of the pre-amp and replaced it with the Channel Master CM-3414 and the results were not as expected. Channels NBC and ABC were gone. I guess that route is not the problem. I took down the HD Staker down, enough is enough trying to get some performance out of it. It is packed and ready to be shipped back to Denny.

Now, what is better choice between Antennas Direct 91XG or Solid Signal HDB91x?

Both of them look the same to me besides the price...
vakeroo is offline  
post #13 of 21 Old 07-17-2013, 02:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tylerSC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mauldin SC, 29607
Posts: 4,105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 92
The 91XG is a proven performer, but the Extreme Signal version does appear to be basically the same.
tylerSC is offline  
post #14 of 21 Old 07-17-2013, 04:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,624
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 69
The 91XG has been around for years. Lifetime warranty.

Solid Signal just started importing the Chinese antennas and putting their name on them this spring. 6 months warranty.

Who knows? Either will likely perform similarly.
ProjectSHO89 is online now  
post #15 of 21 Old 08-15-2014, 02:40 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Question Clearstream2 vs HD Stacker

Hi all from south of the border.
I'm trying to get the most channels possible thru OTA as many of you do, but my antenna is not performing as I would like to. My current setup is an Clearstream DB2 antenna mounted about 25 feet above ground level with a RG6 coax cable 40 ft long to 1 TV (here's my TV fool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...ec2f6a016dfa93).

I get all green channels since I can see both broadcast antennas located North and West of my house from my rooftop but my main goal is to get CBS and ABC channels (both VHF-Hi to my understanding) and whatever extra channel I can get.
I also got the CP-19 preamp from Antennas Direct and it did not worked as I wanted to since I even lost a few channels with it (overload by close stations maybe??) so I took down the preamp.

So here's my question do you think the HD Stacker will do the job? or any other brand/model of antenna that you can suggest to me?
is there a way I can reach my goal with whatever I have right now or adding something like a VHF antenna? (brand/model).


thanks a lot in advance.
mayoal is offline  
post #16 of 21 Old 08-15-2014, 02:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,624
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by ;
Clearstream DB2 antenna
There's no such model. Please check again.

You cannot use a pre-amp when signals are that strong. Might as well go outside and look into the the sun with a telescope at mid-day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ;
do you think the HD Stacker will do the job?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ;
or any other brand/model of antenna that you can suggest to me?
Add a dedicated AntennaCraft 5-element high-VHF antenna aimed at La Jolla, combined with your UHF antenna using a UVSJ for those two VHF channels. You're 30 miiles away and behind a hill from them, plus you have close-in line of sight to all the FM transmitters on Mt San Miguel. Substantial FM filtering will likely be needed.
mayoal likes this.
ProjectSHO89 is online now  
post #17 of 21 Old 08-15-2014, 04:58 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
There's no such model. Please check again.

You cannot use a pre-amp when signals are that strong. Might as well go outside and look into the the sun with a telescope at mid-day.



No.



Add a dedicated AntennaCraft 5-element high-VHF antenna aimed at La Jolla, combined with your UHF antenna using a UVSJ for those two VHF channels. You're 30 miiles away and behind a hill from them, plus you have close-in line of sight to all the FM transmitters on Mt San Miguel. Substantial FM filtering will likely be needed.
thanks for your reply!

you're right about the model, its a Clearstream 2 antenna the one I have right now. about the preamp that was my thought once I discovered no more channels showed up with that thing connected... my bad

why do you think the HD Stacker won't work for my purpose?

is the AntennaCraft 10 element better than the 5 element for my goal? or the 5 element is more than enough?
mayoal is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old 08-15-2014, 05:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,624
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Ya don't need a Stacker, no low VHF around. Besides, no one really knows how that conjoined beast actually performs.

You could just try the VHF upgrade for the C2, it *might" be enough. Otherwise, the 5-element AC should be plenty.
ProjectSHO89 is online now  
post #19 of 21 Old 08-15-2014, 05:34 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
Ya don't need a Stacker, no low VHF around. Besides, no one really knows how that conjoined beast actually performs.
LOL, just wanted to ask since there's a lot of people in this same thread having really good experiences with it even thou nobody knows how it works and some people are skeptical about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
You could just try the VHF upgrade for the C2, it *might" be enough. Otherwise, the 5-element AC should be plenty.
yes I was thinking about the C2V antenna or the upgrade for mine to get VHF signals since I like how small this antenna is, but I wouldn't like to get it and not to do the job. I think I will go for the 5-7-13 as you suggested and then upgrade my VHF antenna maybe next year.

thanks for your answers.
mayoal is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old 08-15-2014, 06:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tylerSC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mauldin SC, 29607
Posts: 4,105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Winegard 7696 combo antenna would be a good choice, or Antennacraft HBU-33.
tylerSC is offline  
post #21 of 21 Old 08-16-2014, 04:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,624
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
Winegard 7696 combo antenna would be a good choice, or Antennacraft HBU-33.
Both are too narrow of beamwidth on UHF. He needs to be able to receive predictably from a 90 degree spread on UHF, which he already is. Therefore, UHF doesn't need to be changed.
ProjectSHO89 is online now  
Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off