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Local HDTV Info and Reception

GeorgeLV's Avatar GeorgeLV
04:55 PM Liked: 10
post #811 of 9441
02-14-2004 | Posts: 3,139
Joined: Feb 2004
I just got in on the (H)DTV scene. H is in parentheses because I only have the cheap and crappy WinTV-D as my tuner. Right now I can receive CBS (7), Fox (9),
PBS (11), and ABC (12) on a homemade dipole cut for channel 7 thumbtacked to my ceiling. I've also made contacts with Gold 33 (29) on a silver sensor and WB (22) using a shoddier dipole I tried to cut for channel 2 which I don't use now because it didn't hold the 2 actual HD stations 7 and 12 in.

Anyhow, I wonder who's having success on bringing in channel 2 and OTA and what they're using. Is it even possible with an indoor antenna? Also, to anyone thinking of going the OTA route, don't waste the money on a silver sensor, it just doesn't have enough gain for HDTV.
gworkman's Avatar gworkman
05:23 PM Liked: 10
post #812 of 9441
02-14-2004 | Posts: 372
Joined: Jan 2004
I'm actually getting all 9 digital stations with an old UHF hoop antenna sitting on the top shelf of my closet. Channel 29 gets 70% signal, all others (including KVBC) are 80 and above. It also gives me a clear analog picture for KTUD. I live near DI and Eastern, and can see Black Mountain from my bedroom balcony. I have a Dish Net 6000 rcvr.
GeorgeLV's Avatar GeorgeLV
01:46 AM Liked: 10
post #813 of 9441
02-15-2004 | Posts: 3,139
Joined: Feb 2004
gworkman, unfortunately, I'm on the other side of the strip in the central valley so I have all those pesky hotel towers in my way. From what I've read up on antennas multipath is really killer on low vhf on which KVBC-DT 2 lies. I'm optimistic that I'll be able to pull it with the right gear, so hopefully someone else facing the same topography can guide me in the right direction.
zik's Avatar zik
02:40 AM Liked: 10
post #814 of 9441
02-15-2004 | Posts: 12
Joined: Feb 2004
never mind
Tallen234's Avatar Tallen234
09:38 AM Liked: 10
post #815 of 9441
02-15-2004 | Posts: 1,147
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Hmmm...no HD-NBC on the Cox guide yet.
lionsfan's Avatar lionsfan
12:46 PM Liked: 10
post #816 of 9441
02-15-2004 | Posts: 47
Joined: May 2003
KVBC must be having problems, race is in 4 x 3 format not 16 x 9. Sat box & internal tv tuner indicate HD. Its the same format as CBS when they are not showing an HD program
vegggas's Avatar vegggas
12:53 PM Liked: 10
post #817 of 9441
02-15-2004 | Posts: 2,789
Joined: Apr 2002
Quote:


Originally posted by Tallen234
Hmmm...no HD-NBC on the Cox guide yet.

Probably not until March, assuming that KVBC NBC actually has any HD by that time and provide a retransmit signal to Cox. So far I have not seen any HD from NBC OTA.
The race is not in HD locally, oh well. Didn't think it would happen anyway.

The Nascar In Car Freeview on channels 523 - 529 are great though.
I'm using PIP to watch the main NBC feed in one window and switching from the seven different in car cameras in the other window. That's cool. I think all digital customers get that for free today so enjoy it while you can.

vegggas
edit to above statement: I have not seen any "real" HD content from NBC yet, just the SD signal transmitted at 1080i in 4x3 format.

v
pbykowski's Avatar pbykowski
03:08 PM Liked: 10
post #818 of 9441
02-15-2004 | Posts: 18
Joined: Sep 2003
Looks HD to me. I've been watching KVBC-DT since they started and last nights shows must have been HD. They looked completely different. I could see details in the picture that I couldn't see prior to Friday.
vegggas's Avatar vegggas
03:17 PM Liked: 10
post #819 of 9441
02-15-2004 | Posts: 2,789
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Quote:


Originally posted by pbykowski
Looks HD to me. I've been watching KVBC-DT since they started and last nights shows must have been HD. They looked completely different. I could see details in the picture that I couldn't see prior to Friday.

It's the 1080i signal, but the content is 480i SD. What you are seeing is the SD signal on the HD format. Just like CBS or ABC when they are not broadcasting in HD, they show the 4x3 upconverted. An HD signal will be MUCH cleaner and 16x9.

vegggas
lvthunder's Avatar lvthunder
09:34 PM Liked: 10
post #820 of 9441
02-15-2004 | Posts: 1,462
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I hope KVBC gets the HD going soon. So far it's the first channel I have hopes of getting in HD OTA. The other digital station I can get is Fox and as far as I have heard (which has been a while) is they have no plans to do Fox Widescreen. I see now that they are broadcasting a 1080i signal. This makes one more station for the HD TiVo I pre-ordered to record. Since I get no signal from KLAS I had Directv request a waiver so with the TiVo I'll be able to record NBC, CBS, HDNet, HDNet Movies, HBOHD, ESPNHD (doubt I'll record anything here), and Discovery HD Theatre.

So when NBC actully broadcasts something in HD I'm going to send another email to our Fox station asking when they are going to broadcast thier networks digital signal. They will be the last of the big 4 to do this (and I'm going to let them know that).
vegggas's Avatar vegggas
02:06 AM Liked: 10
post #821 of 9441
02-16-2004 | Posts: 2,789
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NBC info...
The Analog (3) and Digital (123) NBC feeds to COX went out at around 11:40PM Sunday night. The analog feed came back around 12:30 AM, but at the time of this writing, the digital feed on 123 is still out. There is no update on the IPG in the 700's for an HD feed from NBC (733) either, but there is something going on with the retransmit signal tonight.
I see no change in the digital OTA signal and it appears unaffected. Maybe NBC is reconfiguring their feed to Cox for retransmit of the HD signal?

After 1:00AM, I'm going to have to wait until morning to find out.

vegggas
GeorgeLV's Avatar GeorgeLV
09:47 AM Liked: 10
post #822 of 9441
02-16-2004 | Posts: 3,139
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lvthunder, Fox is switching to real 720p hdtv so at this point the station is going to be looking at that instead of the outgoing 480p digital widescreen. While you're fighting the good fight make some noise to Sinclair about carrying the WB hdtv feed. I'm suprised you only get KVBC and KVVU, especially since KVBC is the only english station I haven't been able to pull in at all with indoor antennas. [At least I've finally got it to (barely) register on the signal meter.]
lvthunder's Avatar lvthunder
10:00 AM Liked: 10
post #823 of 9441
02-16-2004 | Posts: 1,462
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GeorgeLV,

I live at the base of black mountain so I can only get the stations that are on the top of it. The others like CBS and ABC I can't even get the signal meter off 0 with an attic mount antenna.
GeorgeLV's Avatar GeorgeLV
05:44 PM Liked: 10
post #824 of 9441
02-16-2004 | Posts: 3,139
Joined: Feb 2004
lvthunder, have you tried an attenuator? Maybe the signal is actually too strong, or are you the guy that lives directly on the other side of the mountain that the transimitters are on?
lvthunder's Avatar lvthunder
05:51 PM Liked: 10
post #825 of 9441
02-16-2004 | Posts: 1,462
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I have tried an attenuator. Unfortaniatly I do live on the opposite side of the mountain as the transmitters for CBS and ABC. I live almost directly below the transmitters that are on Black Mountain. So when NBC starts broadcasting in HD it will be the first station that I can get OTA. I can also get Fox digitally but since they don't do Fox Widescreen I don't really care.
pbykowski's Avatar pbykowski
06:39 PM Liked: 10
post #826 of 9441
02-16-2004 | Posts: 18
Joined: Sep 2003
There is no hope for lvthunder. I live on the other side of Black Mountain (closer to CBS and ABC). I have tried EVERYTHING to get those stations. I finally got ABC with a very weak signal, but my antenna was so high it eventually blew down. I have it in the attic now and all I get is NBC and FOX. Antennaweb is wrong, I've tried every size antenna available in the valley with no luck.
lvthunder's Avatar lvthunder
07:30 PM Liked: 10
post #827 of 9441
02-16-2004 | Posts: 1,462
Joined: Mar 2002
Sure there is hope for me. I just have to sell my house and move somewhere else. Next time I'm looking for a house I'm definitely going to bring my HD receiver to the house and make sure I can get the channels I want. As for antennaweb they probibly don't take elevation into account so they don't see the tons of rock between the tower and my antenna.
GeorgeLV's Avatar GeorgeLV
08:57 PM Liked: 10
post #828 of 9441
02-16-2004 | Posts: 3,139
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I'm starting to think antenna priniciples that work for analog, don't necessarily hold for digital tv. Following theory I cut out a director and reflector for the dipole I made. With the tuner set to analog my picture on 8, 10, and 13 became crystal clear and 3 was acceptable. However, it totally killed my digital reception. Removing the director brought the digital back. I know my thumbtack Yagi isn't close to being technically correct, but I wonder how an adjustment that drastically improves analog can kill digital. Any engineer types can explain this?
GeorgeLV's Avatar GeorgeLV
09:18 PM Liked: 10
post #829 of 9441
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KTNV is having a lot of problems with the HD feed of Jurassic Park 3. They've already dropped down to the SD feed twice. Is this par for the course with them?
lvthunder's Avatar lvthunder
09:44 PM Liked: 10
post #830 of 9441
02-16-2004 | Posts: 1,462
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No most of the time I've watched KTNV lately they have been almost perfect. The only problems I've had with them is when they switch from DD5.1 (National) to DD2.0 (local). The local stuff is the local commercials. Other than that I haven't had any more problems with them then anyone else.
GeorgeLV's Avatar GeorgeLV
09:47 PM Liked: 10
post #831 of 9441
02-16-2004 | Posts: 3,139
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lvthunder, that's good news. The bad news is that it doesn't look like the HD feed of JP3 is coming back up.
HeinePaul's Avatar HeinePaul
11:39 AM Liked: 10
post #832 of 9441
02-17-2004 | Posts: 116
Joined: Aug 2002
Quote:


Originally posted by vegggas
NBC info...
The Analog (3) and Digital (123) NBC feeds to COX went out at around 11:40PM Sunday night. The analog feed came back around 12:30 AM, but at the time of this writing, the digital feed on 123 is still out. There is no update on the IPG in the 700's for an HD feed from NBC (733) either, but there is something going on with the retransmit signal tonight.
I see no change in the digital OTA signal and it appears unaffected. Maybe NBC is reconfiguring their feed to Cox for retransmit of the HD signal?

After 1:00AM, I'm going to have to wait until morning to find out.

vegggas

I've been told that after a frustrating day of trying to get NBC's HD signal to synch up to the NBC supplied HD reciever that we weren't able to get the Daytona 500 out in HD as we had hoped.

Later on Sunday night, the Cox - supplied fiber optic cable box that gets our signal directly from the control room and transmits it digitally to the Cox head-end malfunctioned, and we were dark on 3 and 123 for about half an hour. We contacted Cox, and they took our on-air signal and placed it on Channel 3.

We continue to work on getting NBC-supplied HD content to Cox and to our Black Mountain ATSC transmitter.
lvthunder's Avatar lvthunder
12:09 PM Liked: 10
post #833 of 9441
02-17-2004 | Posts: 1,462
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Keep up the good work. I'm sure you guys will figure it out.
Tallen234's Avatar Tallen234
03:05 PM Liked: 10
post #834 of 9441
02-17-2004 | Posts: 1,147
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Thanks for the effort (and the communication).
Bgluigi's Avatar Bgluigi
03:12 PM Liked: 10
post #835 of 9441
02-17-2004 | Posts: 64
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Urrrrrrrrrrrr, Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh. . . does the above indicate that the local NBC affiliate will soon be broadcasting in hi-def???? Boy--I sure hope so. I just moved here from Florida and was spoiled by watching all my NBC favorites in hi-def in Florida. Heck, even the local FOX affiliate was broadcasting in widescreen SDTV.
vegggas's Avatar vegggas
04:29 PM Liked: 10
post #836 of 9441
02-17-2004 | Posts: 2,789
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Thanks for the update Paul.
We, the viewers, really ARE actively watching the progress of NBC moving to HD.
I still watched "Las Vegas" and Leno in SD on Monday, but look forward to the HD versions real soon.

Bgluigi,
The only OTA HD stations in Las Vegas are ABC 12, CBS 9, and PBS 11.
NBC was trying to go live by last weekends race, but should be up soon in HD at 2. All other locals are SD 480i transmitted digitally.
Cox also offers those local HD stations and other HD channels for varying levels of prices and service packages.


vegggas
tazlv's Avatar tazlv
10:38 AM Liked: 10
post #837 of 9441
02-19-2004 | Posts: 104
Joined: Feb 2004
Does anybody here have a problem with Scientific Atlantas 3250HD? The black levels on it are too high.............The HD channels are fine........but the other channels come out too dark..........Adjusted the brightness to the highest level.
HeinePaul's Avatar HeinePaul
12:02 PM Liked: 10
post #838 of 9441
02-19-2004 | Posts: 116
Joined: Aug 2002
Yesterday evening I spoke with our CE, who told me that we're now upconverting SD content to 1080i in 4/3 format. He's pleased at how it looks, and I'll tell you that watching two identical monitors in engineering side by side looking at news footage we've shot gives a clear indication of just how much the picture quality has improved. Close-ups of skin show many more blemishes with our upconverted signal. That's not good for some but it's better than staring at test patterns.

We're waiting for a replacement HD receiver to place in our satellite chain to get HD content. Part of the problem is that NBC doesn't offer us much in HD and so our window of opportunity to test our chain is limited to some primetime and late night.

Please remember that we are in the middle of "sweeps" and that our #1 priority for the next two weeks is to keep our SD signal up and running. Sadly, homes with digital televisions are NOT currently metered by Nielsen (nor those with HTPC's or PVRs from Cox, DirecTV, Dish, Replay or Tivo) so we don't get a ratings boost by offering HDTV content.

We do, however, look to the future and know that in a 250 channel world, if KVBC can be one of a handful of stations offering HD content that people want to see, we will continue to be a market leader instead of just another SD channel.
Bgluigi's Avatar Bgluigi
04:07 PM Liked: 10
post #839 of 9441
02-19-2004 | Posts: 64
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:


Originally posted by HeinePaul
Yesterday evening I spoke with our CE, who told me that we're now upconverting SD content to 1080i in 4/3 format. He's pleased at how it looks, and I'll tell you that watching two identical monitors in engineering side by side looking at news footage we've shot gives a clear indication of just how much the picture quality has improved. Close-ups of skin show many more blemishes with our upconverted signal. That's not good for some but it's better than staring at test patterns.

We're waiting for a replacement HD receiver to place in our satellite chain to get HD content. Part of the problem is that NBC doesn't offer us much in HD and so our window of opportunity to test our chain is limited to some primetime and late night.

Please remember that we are in the middle of "sweeps" and that our #1 priority for the next two weeks is to keep our SD signal up and running. Sadly, homes with digital televisions are NOT currently metered by Nielsen (nor those with HTPC's or PVRs from Cox, DirecTV, Dish, Replay or Tivo) so we don't get a ratings boost by offering HDTV content.

We do, however, look to the future and know that in a 250 channel world, if KVBC can be one of a handful of stations offering HD content that people want to see, we will continue to be a market leader instead of just another SD channel.


ahhhhhhhhhhh---thanks for the update. I too look forward to when KVBC will elevate itself beyond just being another SD channel and strive to become a market leader. . . but I don't think the local CBS affiliate is exactly shaking in its boots right now
HeinePaul's Avatar HeinePaul
05:20 PM Liked: 10
post #840 of 9441
02-19-2004 | Posts: 116
Joined: Aug 2002
Quote:


Originally posted by Bgluigi
but I don't think the local CBS affiliate is exactly shaking in its boots right now



Actually, since I'm the first person in Las Vegas to see the overnights every single morning, I imagine that, thanks to CSI and Megabucks giveaways, the folks at KLAS are extremely happy to finally be in the running for the title of "news leader" they've claimed for the past year or so. KVBC has been by far the dominant station in both news and overall market share since Nielsen started metering Las Vegas in 1998*.

It's easy to be confused by some of their promotional announcements, however. KLAS has been quietly slapped by NSI in the past for using inaccurate or misleading ratings, sourcing, and promotions, including the amusing "Source: Nelson Ratings" (sic) In fact, a misleading open to their 11pm weeknight newscast was changed just this month after a telephone discussion with Nielsen.

*If you would care to know the facts, I'll be happy to share them with you via PM. I do not wish to further sully this pleasant, useful HDTV forum with bristled responses to a fallacious statement made by an anonymous poster.


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