Portland, OR - HDTV - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 8716 Old 06-17-2003, 11:06 AM
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Comcast will get the same encoded feed that is sent to the HDTV transmitter.

The broadcasters don't want the meta-cast info to be filled in by Comcast.

Now, be aware that Comcast will also be converting and compressing the signal to fit onto their cable.

Who knows what the final signal will look like.

Per Ardua
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post #722 of 8716 Old 06-17-2003, 12:07 PM
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Thanks for the info Scott. It will be interesting to see just how they look in comparison. Seems like all the accounts I've read posted in the HDTV forum say that the cable HD locals appear to be basically indistinguishable from the OTA so we can keep our fingers crossed on that. And the way DirecTV is now stat-muxing and doubling up their HD channels on each transponder the national HD channels like HBO should look much better. BTW, what is the meta-cast info?

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post #723 of 8716 Old 06-17-2003, 05:18 PM
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Here's an overview of what MetaCast does.

http://www.evertz.com/proddesc/metacast(FS).html

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post #724 of 8716 Old 06-22-2003, 04:26 PM
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From reading this thread it seems like Portland HDTV is far from ready for prime-time, pun intended. As someone considering getting into HD, would those of you in town who have already taken the plunge advise that I wait? If not, would I be better off with OTA, satellite (D* or E*?), or wait for Comcast to get on board? If OTA, have people had better luck with the Zenith 420 than the Samsung OTA receivers? (seems most problem posts about audio drops etc. are from those with Samsung gear)

Thanks for you advice.

-tony (beaverton)
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post #725 of 8716 Old 06-23-2003, 08:52 AM
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Hey Tony,

You know that old joke about sex still being good even when it's bad? Well, I don't think I'd put PDX HDTV in quite that category but when it's good it is very good. And addictive, in that it's really easy to get spoiled by it when it is good. To the point where it really does make watching SD TV pretty disappointing. So, for all the bitching I do myself, I'm still very high on HD and would say that if you are the early adopter type and don't mind putting up with the trials and tribulations that go along with it sometimes, by all means take the plunge.

Comcast has said that they would be launching HD service here in town this summer. Since that's pretty much now, if I were you I think I might investigate that before spending the money on an OTA/sat receiver. I haven't seen any promos/mailers from them yet but imagine we will when they have it up and running. It's at least worth a couple of calls to them to see if you can find out when they will actually fire it up. If you do find any info out make sure you post back to let us know. Good luck.

ron
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post #726 of 8716 Old 06-26-2003, 01:13 PM
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I got on antennaweb.org and it lists PBS, FOX, and NBC as yellow and CBS and ABC as red. I live off off of Macadam Ave. (in John's Landing -- 97239), so I was pretty suprised to see that some of the stations are listed red.

Can anyone recommend an antenna for my location? Indoor antenna is ideal. I'm thinking of buying a HD receiver this weekend, but if I can't get CBS and ABC, I'd probably just go back to SD [sigh].

I tried entering a Tigard and Hillsboro address at antennaweb and all the stations show up as yellow. That worries me. Does anyone know where the towers are? I always just assumed they were on top of Sylvan Hill and that I would get good reception from my house.

Thanks.
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post #727 of 8716 Old 06-26-2003, 09:02 PM
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Try the Gemini ZHDTV1. (Also sold under other brands.) Amazon carries it. It's an indoor antenna that has gotten some good reviews.

If you get a good analog UHF signal the digital should work fine.

Circuit City has a good return policy on HDTV receivers if your reception sucks.

Good Luck.

Per Ardua
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post #728 of 8716 Old 06-27-2003, 08:34 AM
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Did anybody happen to watch any KOIN HD last night? After weeks of not watching any due to reruns I noticed there was a CSI on that I hadn't seen yet so I tuned in. The usual crappy pixelation from spreading their bandwidth too far but the audio was also breaking up. Kind of stuttering. I managed to watch the whole show but it was highly distracting. Both their SD channels seemed OK so I assume it was just their HD encoder acting up again.

ron
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post #729 of 8716 Old 06-27-2003, 09:29 AM
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Ron,

I experienced the same audio "stuttering". Not as bad as it was a while back but still annoying.

David

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post #730 of 8716 Old 06-27-2003, 09:48 AM
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I got it too, but since I had already seen it, I opted out of that one.

How about that stretch on FOX/UPN 30-02? What's up with that?

You measure your TV in INCHES? How cute! 9.16 Ft Diagonally, Yeah, Baby!
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post #731 of 8716 Old 06-29-2003, 10:07 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by scottcorinna
Try the Gemini ZHDTV1. (Also sold under other brands.) Amazon carries it. It's an indoor antenna that has gotten some good reviews.

I tried this one (Zenith Silver Sensor) and the only stations I can get are NBC and PBS. They were both around 30-40% signal strength. I think I'm going to have to try a rooftop.

Does anyone know where I can buy a Channel Master 4221 w/ 7775 pre-amp locally? Preferably someplace with a good return policy.

Thanks.
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post #732 of 8716 Old 06-29-2003, 06:23 PM
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This is in response to the fellow who asked
about Lebanon, Oregon reception.

I just put up my antenna on 2003/06/29 in Albany, Oregon. I'm using a Channel Master 3671 antenna. It's chimney mounted above my 2 story house. I attached a rotor, so I can pull in both Eugene and Portland. Tuner is the Samsung SIR-T165.

Here is what I get off the air in HD. I also get several standard digital sub-channels, and a slew of analog
channels, but we are interested in HD here so,
I'll only list those.

PBS 39 Corvallis
ABC 44 Eugene
NBC 17 Springfield
CBS 25 Eugene

ABC 43 Portland
NBC 46 Portland

What I have NOT been able to get so far is digital FOX from either Eugene or Portland. And I have not been able to get CBS out of Portland.

Shawn
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post #733 of 8716 Old 06-30-2003, 12:33 AM
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Since some of the posts here are directed towards Eugene stations, I'll say whats going on here in PDX's southern brother.

17 NBC - I've called and talked to them on the phone. They have their towers up and running, fully operational by the end of July. And HDTV broadcasting will be all going by the end of the year.

25 CBS - Up and running, looking good, despite the occasional forgetting to flip back to HD.

31 FOX - I'm not sure exactly whats going on with them. Their tower is broadcasting online I believe, but its all 480i, and I've never seen anything HD (or "Enhanced"). I hate Fox anyways, so no loss there really. (until sports time)

39 PBS - They are up and running, look good, (although I'm not a big PBS/OPB watcher.

44 ABC - Up and running good as well. I recently had a Audio out of sync issue, but its all cleared up now. They've broadcasted sports programs and movies, almost all without a hitch.

So thats where we stand now, I can't wait for NBC to be broadcasting HD, as I'm a big Leno fan and Boomtown will be awesome to watch in HD. On another note, I'm not a letterman fan, but whats with his lazy butt not being brodcasted in HD? CBS seems to be the leader in HD, and to not have a late night show in HD when your competitor is seems rediculous. I'd watch more letterman just for the fact that it was in HD. Their loss.
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post #734 of 8716 Old 06-30-2003, 09:08 AM
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Norco,

Sitting in Albany, Oregon, about 45 miles north of Eugene, I get all the other Eugene stations (analog and digital), except for 31 Fox.

Antennaweb shows 25 CBS broadcasting from the same direction as 31 Fox, and I get 25 CBS perfectly.

Do you know if 31 Fox has been offline recently. Or are they broadcasting at a lot less power than CBS? Or any other reason why I can't tune them in.

I have a similar problem with reception of Fox from Portland (about 70+ miles north of Albany). I can pull in ABC and NBC, but I can't pull in 30 Fox from Portland.

Shawn
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post #735 of 8716 Old 06-30-2003, 11:41 AM
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I think its a power issue. I get a fine signal, but usually when I'm using my FusionHDTV program, at the top of the corner it tells me the station ID, and with fox, it always stays there, or flickers.
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post #736 of 8716 Old 06-30-2003, 02:12 PM
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Quote:


On another note, I'm not a letterman fan, but whats with his lazy butt not being brodcasted in HD? CBS seems to be the leader in HD, and to not have a late night show in HD when your competitor is seems rediculous. I'd watch more letterman just for the fact that it was in HD. Their loss.

Letterman is scheduled to begin HD productions this September. Details in this thread.

ron
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post #737 of 8716 Old 06-30-2003, 06:49 PM
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I envy you guys a bit...

I can only get OPB 39 as its a straight shot across the valley from my house in Lacomb (12 miles east of Lebanon).

I have a CM7775 UHF amplifier, CM4228 8 Bay Bowtie Antenna, and a CM rotator. The antenna is on top of a 10' mast that sits astride the peak of our house for a total height of ~30'. The STB is the Zenith 420.

The terrain is open around our house, but we're hemmed in to the north and south by fingers of the Cascade foothills. Not a whisper of signal from any of the DTV stations from PDX or EUG.

My buddy in Lewisburg (N of Corvallis) is in DTV heaven, as he gets all the Eugene stations.

I could pay Gene's Antenna Service to come out and tell me that I'm SOL, but I'll keep the $$ and invest in E* HDTV gear when it gets here.

In short, I'm SOL for OTA.

At least we have aDSL!

thanks,

Mike

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My equipment is not listed here... move along...
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post #738 of 8716 Old 06-30-2003, 07:41 PM
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I just moved back to my home in Hillsboro (Helvetia - map) after a 12 year absense. The place is trashed, but priorities are priorities. Due to trees, I have no hope of satellite and there is no cable here.

So I replaced the ancient VHF/UHF antenna with a Channel Master 4248 - $41 delivered from Consumer Direct URL - and raised the mast a couple of feet (there is a low hillside I need to get above and I am just doing so - any higher and I need to rethink the mount). I need to remove a fair amount of deciduous growth in front of the antenna and there are a fair number of Doug Firs. But for now, here is what I am getting through my RCA DTC 100 (viewed through an EVGA Personal Cinema on my PC till I get my Sony 10-HT going):

Channel Signal Strength
27 65-70 stable reception
30 82 stable reception
40 53-63 not stable
43 65-70 not quite stable
46 80-88 stable reception
48 no signal

Given what I am hearing about KOIN, I am not holding my breath for stable reception on 40. I hope that clearing out the nearby decidous growth will make ABC stable on 43. As to UPN on 48, it would be real nice to get it, but I see little hope as I am getting nada (though 49 comes in pretty well).

There seems to be a more multicasting here than in San Francisco, and I don't recall three subchannels in SFO. The traffic cam is a wonderful use of bandwidth :>) I also don't quite understand multicasting the same 4:3 program in both 4:3 and 16:9 (I don't quite buy the screen burn argument. How many receivers can't handle it?). And I wish that PBS transmitted 4:3 material as 4:3. Other than that, I will cope with commercial TV.

I was spoiled in SFO with satellite and a 12 mile straight shot to Sutro Tower.

Jacob

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post #739 of 8716 Old 06-30-2003, 10:34 PM
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Hi Mikehd,

I had to find a map of the valley to get a good picture of Lacomb. You are about the same distance from Eugene 'as the crow flies" as Albany is. It sounds like you have a good setup. The CM Bowtie sure looks interesting. Sounds like you have a decent setup, so it sound like hills arein the way.

That said, I have been able to pull in ABC and NBC from portland, which is a lot further away, and there are hills around Salem. I am using the following setup. CM3671 UHF/VHF/FM (173 inches), mounted on a CM rotor, on the chimney. We have 2 stories and an attic, so the antenna is a good 3 stories off the ground. For good measure, I also have the CM7777 pre-amp.

However, even without the pre-amp, I am able to pull in the Eugene stations.

I have noticed that there is a bout a 10 to 12 degree "angle window" that is needed to pull in Eugene well.

So, what I'm wondering is, have you tried something other than a bow-tie for pulling in the Eugene stations?

Shawn
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post #740 of 8716 Old 06-30-2003, 11:50 PM
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Shawn,

I calculated that I'm about 35 miles from the Eugene towers, and about 65 miles from the Portland towers. Those darn hills make it infinity effectively.

I've tried a Radio Shack Yagi UHF antenna as well. It has about 14 elements on the main shaft. The 8-Bay Bowtie was recommended as giving me the best chance as it has the best gain vs Yagi. I've also read that the Yagi is better for multipath, but thats not my problem here.

I'm tempted to buy a Big Yagi just to see if it doesn't tease out the signal. The BY would be like the CM4248/3023.

I'm expecting a Samsung SIRT-151X from Walmart tomorrow. Maybe it will be able to dig out the signal (but I'm not holding my breath).

The good news is that the Zenith can go back to Circuit City in Salem. Walmart will take the Samsung back in Albany.

Eventually even the low power transmitters (translators) will be DTV. Then I'll be able to pick them up. In about 3 years!

Mike

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post #741 of 8716 Old 07-01-2003, 08:01 AM
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UPN has been down for some time. Sometimes UPN is broadcast on 30-02, it's hit or miss. WB should be coming online shortly but I don't know the channel, is it 33? Anyone know?

You measure your TV in INCHES? How cute! 9.16 Ft Diagonally, Yeah, Baby!
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post #742 of 8716 Old 07-01-2003, 06:16 PM
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no improvements. Can only get OPB DTV out of Corvallis...

oh well..

...there is no place like home...for theater
My equipment is not listed here... move along...
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post #743 of 8716 Old 07-01-2003, 08:33 PM
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For anyone in the Beaverton area...

What percentage of OTA HD broadcasts would you say you get without any hiccups? (let's say that 'hiccups' = audio stuttering and/or video dropouts that would be noticed by your significant other)

Trying to decide if HD is really worth getting into yet...

-tony
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post #744 of 8716 Old 07-02-2003, 08:18 AM
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For those who can get the PDX or EUG DTV stations...

Are the station logos cut off in the lower right corner?

Do you see this on other content? Like on OPB, I noticed that the names of the persons interviewed on a recent program were offscreen about 1/3rd.

My set had overscan set to safe minimums, and I've seen this on a friend's set on other stations, so am curious if the stations are not doing something quite right, or... is it that we're not getting a full 1080 lines (more like 960).

Mike

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post #745 of 8716 Old 07-02-2003, 09:02 AM
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Logos are OK on my set. OPB does a lot of zooming 4:3 material to fit the 16:9 frame so the tops and bottoms are signifcantly reduced. It's like using Full Zoom on my 6000.

You measure your TV in INCHES? How cute! 9.16 Ft Diagonally, Yeah, Baby!
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post #746 of 8716 Old 07-02-2003, 09:17 AM
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Tony, I'm about a mile east of 217 at the bottom of the West Slope area between BH Highway and Canyon and my reception is generally fine. The majority of the issues I have are not reception related, but rather DTV encoder/transmitter problems that the stations have (that and the fact that many of them split their allocated bandwidth with multiple channels which causes pixelation in fast movement). For the most part the equipment they are using is old, outdated and broken down. And without any significant revenue source from the DTV to fund upgrades they are understandably reluctant to do any. That being said, I still think it's well worth while to get the OTA capability for the HD content and upconverted SD content, warts and all.

To answer your question more specifically though:

KGW - When they first started out they had serious audio issues which they seem to have fixed. Pretty much smooth sailing on the HD feed but very pixelated SD feed.

KOIN - Generally good except they seem to have sporadic issues which pop up (but they usually get them corrected pretty quickly). They do have some pixelation on their HD feed when the content pushes the limit (multicasting again including an absolutely useless traffic cam channel...).

KATU - Currently sad. Since around the beginning of the year they have had some serious problems with audio and video dropouts. Although they seem to have reduced the severity of them the last couple months I still get them regularly. But they are now very brief and not nearly as bothersome at least.

KPTV and KPDX - These have been changing around frequently. They do have problems and the Chief engineer there has told me not to expect any substantial improvements until they get into their PSIP project for the DTV transmitters. He said that was supposed to be scheduled sometime in August I believe.

OPB - I don't watch enough of them to really say because I never know what's going to be on. The HD content seems to look pretty good when I flip into it and the upconverted stuff isn't too bad either. Seems like I hear complaints from a number of people here and I think it may be reception related issues due to the low power signal they put out?

So... I guess the question comes down to whether or not you have a video nut/understanding significant other?

ron
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post #747 of 8716 Old 07-02-2003, 01:18 PM
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Hey folks in the Albany, Lacomb, Corvallis, Lebanon, Jefferson, Oregon (OR) area. I've started a new thread for those of us trying to pull in both Portland and Eugene stations in this towns mid-way between these two markets.

Nearly Official Albany and Corvallis, OR DTV Thread

Shawn
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post #748 of 8716 Old 07-04-2003, 09:22 AM
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Tony- I live a couple blocks from 185th and Cornell. I have no reception issues at all. The broadcasters, as R11 says, have their problems, sometimes more and sometimes less. As a percentage good performance for me is in high nineties, however I do notice the glitches. There have been for me only 2 programs I could not stand to watch in the last four months and was forced to watch on cable. Content is another issue as well as 4:3 up-res vs true 16:9.

None of the B&M's that I know of show anything other than the hd loops, which are fine, but not what I prefer to watch at home. You really need to see HD at some ones home. ( I'm not ready to invite you over just yet however).

Is it worth it at this time? For me a resounding YES!
If you can afford it, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

good luck

Lew
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post #749 of 8716 Old 07-04-2003, 09:33 AM
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Thanks guys. I think I'm ready to take the HD plunge. If the HD DirecTivo were out, I'd already have done it.

Now the question is whether to do "just" OTA or to drop Comcast for DirecTV with HD...

-tony
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post #750 of 8716 Old 07-04-2003, 11:20 PM
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tbacos - a recommendation I have is that you buy a OTA receiver, and enjoy HDTV for awhile. If your in a good market too, aka one that has good reception and the stations don't mess up all the time, you'll enjoy the HD feed. Then, when DirecTivo HD hits, you can buy it, or if its a little bit too much in the beginning, wait a couple extra months to let the price drop a bit. Meanwhile you still are watching HD, all your major networks, and so you would only be missing out on a little HD, rather than all the HD as you are now. If/when you do decide to switch to DirecTv, you could save the OTA receiver for maybe a new HD set in the bedroom, ;-). Good luck on whatever path you may end up deciding. I personally know some HD is a heck of a lot better than none! Whenever I see SD stuff now I always think Ahhh, think how much better it would be in HD!
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