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post #8671 of 8737 Old 05-27-2014, 10:13 PM
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post #8672 of 8737 Old 06-13-2014, 11:43 AM
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We're on the westside (Bonny Slope area). I put a Winegard HD7694P antenna in the attic and still have occassionaly artifacts on KOIN (CBS). All other major channels ok (we really only watch the networks and OPB) - don't think I've ever seen a problem on any of them, at least during prime time. The TV Fool profile (attached) tells the story perfectly. Not sure why some other channels on the same tower are ok... maybe something to do with the particular antenna or wavelength (?).

I suspect the intermittent problems are due to scattering from trees. Maybe a higher gain antenna would help? We've got a reasonale amount of space in the attic, though I don't want to put some big ugly thing on the roof.

Any thoughts? Am I missing something?
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post #8673 of 8737 Old 06-23-2014, 11:40 PM
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KATU to get getTV on a subchannel soon:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/008...tations/271009

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post #8674 of 8737 Old 06-25-2014, 03:17 PM
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Anyone looking for aWinegard HD7694P I have one for sale. PM me if interested.

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post #8675 of 8737 Old 07-02-2014, 07:29 PM
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2.3 get tv

Get tv is now active on 2.3 rescan found it and its up and running
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post #8676 of 8737 Old 07-29-2014, 12:15 AM
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Hopefully someone here can help me. I have been reading that there is an OTA receiver for DirecTv called the AM21. I currently have my Samsung HD tuner hooked up to my TV so that I can get RetroTV channel 27.2 to watch Doctor Who when they start broadcasting it next month. I'd like to get the AM21 tuner so that I can record through my DirecTv DVR. I have read that the only channels that AM21 will pick-up are channels that are in the D* database. So my question is, does anyone have any experience with the AM21 tuner? Do you know if I will be able to pick-up RetroTV?

Thanks!
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post #8677 of 8737 Old 07-30-2014, 08:12 AM
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KSLM-27 Salem/Dallas is a low power station that airs Retro TV on a sub-channel. The broadcast foorprint barely reaches the souther portion of metro Portland. http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=1367311&map=Y

Wanting a strong FCC to say no to the Wireless lobby. Keep the tv broadcast band for ota television broadcasters.
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post #8678 of 8737 Old 07-30-2014, 08:49 AM
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KSLM is simulcasted in Portland on KWVT. http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=1417174&map=Y That's the station Bragi is inquiring about.

- Trip

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #8679 of 8737 Old 08-01-2014, 02:10 PM
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8/1 ...KATU, KOIN and KRCW, note this AM are being received by me (about 15 miles LoS) all at MUCH reduced power?

In addition, my tuner only picks up KRCW on the channel "5" repeater (though it's on the channel 32 on the tv channel selector) and the full power channel 32 signal doesn't even appear anymore??

Is there work on the tower - or did this early AM lightning cause some issues?

I've rescanned 2x with the same issue and other channels seem fine..wonder if the problem stations are all on the same tower by chance??

Thanx for the update/info from those who may know...

(Weingard 1080P antenna attic installed - closely oreinted to best signal on 17-2/27-2 (the LP stations) and a single RG6 run of about 75~ feet to my Toshiba Regza TV)
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post #8680 of 8737 Old 08-01-2014, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffinWesternWA View Post
In addition, my tuner only picks up KRCW on the channel "5" repeater (though it's on the channel 32 on the tv channel selector)
Does this mean you're seeing 5 analog or has that signal converted to digital?

- Trip

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post #8681 of 8737 Old 08-01-2014, 03:05 PM
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Question

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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Does this mean you're seeing 5 analog or has that signal converted to digital?

- Trip
Nope, 5 analog has been gone a while, my tv channel scanner is pickin up physical channel 5 on channel 32 of the set, ...it ws picking up ch 32 prior which gave me a 98-99 signal, the channel 5 is quite weak, about a 55~ peak, and KOIN is down from 90's to 50's also, and KATU is down slightly to 70's, all just today...

I've heard in past that work WAS scheduled on teh KOIN tower but, no specifics..
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post #8682 of 8737 Old 08-01-2014, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffinWesternWA View Post
Nope, 5 analog has been gone a while, my tv channel scanner is pickin up physical channel 5 on channel 32 of the set, ...it ws picking up ch 32 prior which gave me a 98-99 signal, the channel 5 is quite weak, about a 55~ peak, and KOIN is down from 90's to 50's also, and KATU is down slightly to 70's, all just today...

I've heard in past that work WAS scheduled on teh KOIN tower but, no specifics..
1400 PDT update, all seems well again..KATU back "full" or as was in past along w/ KOIN, KRCW shows TWICE on a new scan, on BOTH channel 5 and channel 33 (physical) EACH show on the TV tuner as ch 32, the ch 33 being a 98~ signal and 5 much lower 50's, in addition, all 3 OPB channels also shows a ch 10 strong signal and a ch 40 UHF signal also,...so OPBand KRCW are broadcast locally on two diferent stations...

Scans in PDX area should (still) reveal 45 channels, all are now digital, with repeaters on OPB (3 channles) KRCW (3) and also on the ION channels (3 )...take away the all religious only, all shopping, non-english and childrens only programming- that leaves about 18 others watchable, kinda like a low budget cable array

Musta been work on towers I guess...

Last edited by JeffinWesternWA; 08-01-2014 at 03:30 PM. Reason: typos galore
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post #8683 of 8737 Old 08-01-2014, 05:17 PM
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Be sure to check the PDX Radio Web Site.
http://www.pdxradio.com/

The forum has info about local tower work in the West Hills.
http://feedback.pdxradio.com/

The Sylvan tower were KATU, KOIN and KCRW are at. Had equipment failure back in the spring. This is the time of year to get all that repair done.

For Tripp, I couple of corrections for Portland area.

KORS-CD, KOXI-CA, KORK-CA, KKEI-CA, and KOXO-CA. Are currently in STA status. There is no programing at this time. These five channels might be heading for repack auction.

Translator KPXG-LD is only show the first three ION channels of KPXG-TV. KPXG-LD along with KGWZ-LD have a LMA with Rural Oregon Wireless Television. - www.rowt.org

K14HN-D is no long on the air. It's sister station K18EL-D Newberg and K50GG-D Salem. Along with some other translators around Oregon. Broadcast a dual signal of KPTV and KPDX.
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post #8684 of 8737 Old 08-02-2014, 03:28 PM
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I am not receiving any signal from KWVT since last night while I was in the middle of relocating my indoor antenna. I had a strong signal all last week. If there is some work being done on the towers that would make sense.

The channel's back on the air now.

Last edited by Bragi; 08-03-2014 at 12:10 AM. Reason: Update
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post #8685 of 8737 Old 08-03-2014, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaasjr320 View Post
For Tripp, I couple of corrections for Portland area.

KORS-CD, KOXI-CA, KORK-CA, KKEI-CA, and KOXO-CA. Are currently in STA status. There is no programing at this time. These five channels might be heading for repack auction.
I've got all of them listed as off the air. Is that accurate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaasjr320 View Post
Translator KPXG-LD is only show the first three ION channels of KPXG-TV. KPXG-LD along with KGWZ-LD have a LMA with Rural Oregon Wireless Television. - www.rowt.org
Only the first three? That's unhelpful. I'm not sure how I would implement that exactly...

I can find nothing on the ROWT site reflecting this LMA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaasjr320 View Post
K14HN-D is no long on the air.
It is listed as off the air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaasjr320 View Post
It's sister station K18EL-D Newberg and K50GG-D Salem. Along with some other translators around Oregon. Broadcast a dual signal of KPTV and KPDX.
Are they both SD or what is the arrangement?

- Trip

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post #8686 of 8737 Old 08-10-2014, 10:15 AM
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I was wondering if someone could help me out. My parents live in Canby which is about 25 miles south of Portland. A few years ago when they decided to cut the cord I got them an OTA antenna and was able to pick up all the major stations in the area. Recently I have been unable to pick up KATU (ABC) or KOIN (CBS) without having moved the antenna. I tried to move it up to the attic but was unable to reliably get either of those stations.

I thought about putting a more sensitive antenna on the roof, but am unsure if that would make a difference based on my TV Fool report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c6d5339c9ffa

Based on that report I have no chance of getting KOIN at my parent's house. Does anyone know what happened to that transmitter? They used to get that station in just fine.
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post #8687 of 8737 Old 08-11-2014, 10:04 AM
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Canby KOIN/KATU OTA Reception

[QUOTE=MisterKirkles;26445537]I was wondering if someone could help me out. My parents live in Canby which is about 25 miles south of Portland.


KOIN currently has a permit to lower its power drastically during the period they will need to repair its antenna system. They transmit from the same antenna with the same power as KATU so their signal is similar except KOIN is ~5 dB larger at my house than KATU. KCRW is also transmitted from the same antenna but with 1.25 dB less power.


Therefore the current TV Fool listing for KOIN is not to believed since it apparently assumes that KOIN is transmitting at very low power. If you read the messages about KOIN above, you will see that they were (are?) transmitting with 1/2 power. Don't know if they got their antenna fixed or not.


The Longley-Rice predictions maps on Rabbit Ears.info site indicate you should have no problem receiving these stations with a reasonable antenna.


Linley


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post #8688 of 8737 Old 08-11-2014, 01:20 PM
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OPB's audio has disappeared :-(

So, the fine folks at OPB have changed the PIDs on KOPB.
No reason. No advance warning. Recordings spoiled.

A scan shows new PIDs, but I can't find the audio ???

Example: for "Plus" (meaning "MINUS"), the video is still on PID 0x41,
PID 0x23 had mono. "Plus" used to be stereo (ac3, 48000 Hz, stereo, 192 kb/s).
Some systems cannot deal with mono. PIDs 0x21, 0x24, 0x25 have no audio.

On the HD subchannel, 0x29 had audio for awhile, but then it disappeared.

I looked on their homepage, expecting to find some useless boilerplate
"do a rescan on your tuner" message, but not even that.

Is some nutjob throwing switches at random over there, or what?
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post #8689 of 8737 Old 08-11-2014, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad2 View Post
I looked on their homepage, expecting to find some useless boilerplate "do a rescan on your tuner" message, but not even that.
Something like at http://www.opb.org/about/contactus/reception/ ?

Quote:
Reception Announcement

Our engineers are aware of the audio problems on OPB TV. On Saturday evening we began upgrades to critical equipment at our facility in Portland to improve OPB's emergency preparedness. To restore audio please use the following link to perform a double rescan and check your MTS/SAP or language settings.
https://opb.desk.com/customer/portal/articles/1655820-audio-on-opb---sunday-august-10-2014?b_id=4477


My very humble setup:
Man Cave:Vizio E500i-A1 "Smart TV" (50-in 1080p 120Hz LED/LCD, has Netflix app.), Blu-ray players (Sony BDP-S3100, old LG BD390), Roku (the original model: N1000), PC (Windows 7), Comcast Internet (25Mbps/5Mbps).
Bedroom:LG 32LV3400-UA TV (32-in 768p 60Hz LED/LCD), HD DVR (Motorola RNG200N), Xfinity Comcast cable (Digital Starter Package), DVD/VHS player.
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post #8690 of 8737 Old 08-11-2014, 03:07 PM
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Thanks.

They are still changing things around. At the moment, they seem
to have gone back to the previous PIDs, and there is audio.

But who knows, it might change again in 5 minutes?
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post #8691 of 8737 Old 08-11-2014, 03:51 PM
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The software I use uses the PMT to immediately associate the new PID with the channel. The PMT exists because stations can change the PID whenever they want.

NOW: my post on AVS Forum.
NEXT: someone else's post on AVS Forum.
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post #8692 of 8737 Old 08-11-2014, 09:10 PM
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[QUOTE=Mark12547;26478241]Something like at http://www.opb.org/about/contactus/reception/ ?

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.


I had one of three HD sets fail last night (a 12 yr old Sony) and thought it was its first step to oblivion.


Did a double rescan without seeing if a single rescan would help. Works fine now.


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post #8693 of 8737 Old 08-20-2014, 03:43 PM
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KOIN, etc. AT Full Power Again

I have word that KOIN (ch. 40), KATU (ch.43) and KRCW (ch. 33) have installed new transmission lines and are again operating at full power. At my house the three signals are a bit more that 10 dB greater in amplitude today than they were on August 7th.

This should clear up some of the chronic problems people have been having receiving these stations.

Linley
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post #8694 of 8737 Old 08-22-2014, 12:36 PM
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Question

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Originally Posted by LinleyG View Post
I have word that KOIN (ch. 40), KATU (ch.43) and KRCW (ch. 33) have installed new transmission lines and are again operating at full power. At my house the three signals are a bit more that 10 dB greater in amplitude today than they were on August 7th.

This should clear up some of the chronic problems people have been having receiving these stations.

Linley
8/21 and 8/22 , I'm seeing quite the opposite, lower power on KOIN w/ pixeling etc., and I'm just 15~ miles LOS away...
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post #8695 of 8737 Old 08-22-2014, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffinWesternWA View Post
8/21 and 8/22 , I'm seeing quite the opposite, lower power on KOIN w/ pixeling etc., and I'm just 15~ miles LOS away...

Interesting. I know they have installed and are using new transmission lines. There was an initial problem but it was fixed by yesterday morning (Aug 21). I have measured data on Aug 21 of 10 dB or more increase in signal at two locations; one on azimuth of 20 degrees and another on azimuth of 253 degrees (true) from KOIN. What azimuth is your receive location? If your experience is from yesterday, it makes one wonder if there is a pattern problem with the new antenna set-up.


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post #8696 of 8737 Old 08-22-2014, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LinleyG View Post
Interesting. I know they have installed and are using new transmission lines. There was an initial problem but it was fixed by yesterday morning (Aug 21). I have measured data on Aug 21 of 10 dB or more increase in signal at two locations; one on azimuth of 20 degrees and another on azimuth of 253 degrees (true) from KOIN. What azimuth is your receive location? If your experience is from yesterday, it makes one wonder if there is a pattern problem with the new antenna set-up.


Linley
My location is over in Lacamas Meadows, on the south side of Lacamas Lake, at about 350ft~ elevation, been here 6+ years, same set up, my KATU signal is high 90's which is "best ever"...KOIN however is now signal of low 70's and occasional drop outs, worst I've seen it till as of late...all the other channels seem fixed/normal EXCEPT KOIN...my guess is they are still working on the xmitter??
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post #8697 of 8737 Old 08-22-2014, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffinWesternWA View Post
My location is over in Lacamas Meadows, ... my guess is they are still working on the xmitter??
I am not with KOIN and get my information indirectly. However, as far as I know they consider themselves done with the situation and are not working on it.


Remember that KRCW ch. 33, KOIN ch. 40 and KATU ch. 43 are all transmitted from the same antenna. Anytime you change a TV transmitter's antenna, especially in the UHF range, some people (hopefully the majority) will experience an improvement while will experience a decline. You apparently are one of the unfortunate who have lost coverage. I have no idea if you are in the minority.


Since KATU's signal is very good, there is a so-so to good chance that you are experiencing multipath interference at your location. That is a major cause of frequency selective fading. Your antenna is apparently sitting in a location where a reflection is destructively adding with the direct signal from the antenna. Therefore, you might be able to get a better signal if you can move the antenna a few feet in one direction or another. This is specially true if it's an indoor antenna.


Trouble shooting reception problems with DTV is always difficult. The picture is perfect until there is no picture at all. In analog days, one could move the antenna and see that the picture was better ... or not. At lease you have a TV set that has a signal goodness readout.


Linley
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post #8698 of 8737 Old 08-22-2014, 06:11 PM
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> they consider themselves done with the situation and are not working on it

They need to work on it because it is currently crap.

I'm less than 5 miles from the antenna cluster and KOIN usually
comes in perfectly (meaning every single packet is correct after
forward error correction). Today signal strength is about the same
as usual but the signal quality fell off a cliff. On average 722
packets per second are still bad after forward error correction.
That is a massive problem.

> Remember that KRCW ch. 33, KOIN ch. 40 and KATU ch. 43 are all
> transmitted from the same antenna.

The same antenna, or seperate antennas on the same tower?

KATU reception has problems far more often than KOIN, and KRCW
is far worse than KATU.

KATU 647028615 Hz
KOIN 629028615 Hz
KRCW 587028615 Hz

KRCW -> KOIN 7.15% difference in frequency
KOIN -> KATU 2.86% difference in frequency

> That is a major cause of frequency selective fading.

> Your antenna is apparently sitting in a location where a reflection
> is destructively adding with the direct signal from the antenna.

Such small differences in frequency aren't going to make that big a
difference in constructive vs destructive adding. Assuming that Jeff
is still using the same antenna, he could certainly benefit from
a higher gain (more directional) antenna (more signal, less
multipath), but I would expect it to improve those three stations
about the same.

The frequency selective fading theory doesn't explain why my reception
of KOIN was fine yesterday and horrid today.

> new transmission lines

New transmission lines would not change the antenna's radiation pattern.

Note that most tuners which only report a single number report
signal quality, not signal strength, even if they call it strength.
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post #8699 of 8737 Old 08-22-2014, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad2 View Post
> they consider themselves done with the situation and are not working on it

They need to work on it because it is currently crap.

I'm less than 5 miles from the antenna cluster and KOIN usually
comes in perfectly (meaning every single packet is correct after
forward error correction). Today signal strength is about the same
as usual but the signal quality fell off a cliff. On average 722
packets per second are still bad after forward error correction.
That is a massive problem.

> Remember that KRCW ch. 33, KOIN ch. 40 and KATU ch. 43 are all
> transmitted from the same antenna.

The same antenna, or seperate antennas on the same tower?

KATU reception has problems far more often than KOIN, and KRCW
is far worse than KATU.

KATU 647028615 Hz
KOIN 629028615 Hz
KRCW 587028615 Hz

KRCW -> KOIN 7.15% difference in frequency
KOIN -> KATU 2.86% difference in frequency

> That is a major cause of frequency selective fading.

> Your antenna is apparently sitting in a location where a reflection
> is destructively adding with the direct signal from the antenna.

Such small differences in frequency aren't going to make that big a
difference in constructive vs destructive adding. Assuming that Jeff
is still using the same antenna, he could certainly benefit from
a higher gain (more directional) antenna (more signal, less
multipath), but I would expect it to improve those three stations
about the same.

The frequency selective fading theory doesn't explain why my reception
of KOIN was fine yesterday and horrid today.

> new transmission lines

New transmission lines would not change the antenna's radiation pattern.

Note that most tuners which only report a single number report
signal quality, not signal strength, even if they call it strength.

From KOIN today 8/22 via email (below): (Guess they are still at reduced power and working still)...that explains my poor signal!

My attic mounted Weingard 1080P has been painstakingly oriented within/to an "inch" to get the best signal on the weakest stations (17.2 and 27.2) As a result, KRCW is almost a "100" signal consistently while KWVT usually is low-mid 70's with degregation to 50's~ in bad winter weather. Only very heavy rains cause pixeling. Most other stations are at least low 80's to high 90's+ signal consistently. Due to space for ounting and my RG6 cable run, the 1080P was the best fit as a UHF/VHF combo antenna for the situation/location. Koin is running a 78~ signal as of now (PM on 8/22)....

On Friday, August 22, 2014 2:08 PM, Jamie Holmes <Jamie.Holmes@koin.com> wrote:
Thanks for writing. Yes, we have experienced problems at our transmitter. A few months back, our transmitter caught fire. As a result, there were a number of repairs. We have been working on the signal this week (as all the parts arrived). We are working hard to get the signal back to full strength and should be there very soon.

We thank you for writing. If you experience more problems over the next few weeks, please keep us posted. Your feedback is very important to us and can help us continue to solve the problem.

Thanks again and have a great day.
-Jamie

Jamie Holmes | Creative Services Director
222 SW Columbia St • Suite 102 • Portland, OR 97201
503.464.0782 •Jamie.Holmes@koin.com

Last edited by JeffinWesternWA; 08-22-2014 at 09:17 PM.
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post #8700 of 8737 Old 08-22-2014, 11:19 PM
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Most of Konrad2's post is right on. There are a couple of points, however:


Such small differences in frequency aren't going to make that big a
difference in constructive vs destructive adding.



Multipath reflections cause periodic signal amplitude variations with frequency. The period of that variation is the reciprocal of the time difference between the direct path and the reflected path. With roughly a nS/ft of delay in free space, a close in 170 nS arrival time difference will be caused by a 170' path difference. This results in a null in the signal every 6 MHz. The depth of that null depends on the ratio of amplitudes of the reflected signal vs. the direct ray with large reflections causing deep nulls. Receivers can normally deal with large amplitude close in reflections, but if a 15 or 20 dB null happens to land on top of the pilot, many receivers will prematurely fall below threshold. This is one of those "iffy" subjects where there is such a forest of if's in any concrete statement of fact that it's hard to make sense out of it all. But the fact remains that with even moderate path differences between the signal and it's reflection the variation in amplitude with frequency can actually be quite rapid.


I have no idea what is happening here. An indoor antenna can easily be prey to large close-in reflections which is why I suggesting moving it a bit. Given that JeffinWesternWA's antenna is high up in the attic, I doubt that high amplitude close-in reflections are the problem. To delve further, one would need to look at the signal with a spectrum analyzer see if there is tilt across the channel or a null . (If interested, please ask. I would love to see what's going on.)


New transmission lines would not change the antenna's radiation pattern.


This is normally true; but not in this case. The three stations are multiplexed onto the SAME antenna. KOIN's system features two transmissions lines, each feeding part of the antenna. I believe that one line fed the upper part and the other line fed the lower part. This is a good scheme to enhance the reliability with redundancy and also reduce the amount of power any given part of the antenna system has to deal with. About the first of the year they burned out one of the feed lines leaving the other intact. So they were operating with half power into only one-half of their antenna array which changed its pattern by changing its effective height and lowering its gain. So when they restored the system, to its full size, they did change their antenna pattern. The measured RF signal power from my antenna of all three stations increased by 10 dB at my house and several dB more at Charles Rhodes' house in Vancouver after the change was made.


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