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post #61 of 8675 Old 10-04-2002, 08:37 AM
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Dave,

It's not your receiver. It's a frustrating thing all right. As you say, it always seems to happen right at the most inopportune times doesn't it? Lee has commented on this before and apparently they have an "issue" with their equipment which they can not seem to isolate so that they can fix it. I believe he said it may have to do with the old "beta" software they are still using possibly? At any rate, I don't think he's fully aware how often it occurs. I started to count the times during CSI: Miami last monday night and was up to 5 or so in the first half hour when I quit counting. Seems like they often come with a couple in short sucession and then it will be stable for 10 minutes or so before it happens again. Very frustrating. I hate drop outs and lip sync problems .

ron
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post #62 of 8675 Old 10-04-2002, 09:13 AM
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Same problems here (South of Hillsboro) with my Dish 6000. My wife finally made me go back to the analog signal - ghosting and all.

If anyone is interested, I'd be willing to "synchronize watches" and log dropouts some night on a given program to be sure we're seeing the same things at the same time.

Gary A.
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post #63 of 8675 Old 10-04-2002, 11:06 AM
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This describes my situation exactly.. I live in hillsboro, and have a double bow tie in the attic. At first I thought it was my setup, but I spent quite a bit of time adjusting things to the point I get solid 100% SS on my Tosh DST3000. However, I still get these 5-6 sec video , audio dropouts (goes completely blank) at the rate of about 4-5 per hour.
I watched the SS meter for a while, and have not seen the level drop below 93. I haven't left the meter on for an hour to catch the dropout, and I am not quick enough to switch to the meter when the dropout occurs.

I would be willing to "sync watch", if that will help isolate. How about CSI next week?
I will also try to answer Lee's question on PSIP,etc when I get a chance.
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post #64 of 8675 Old 10-04-2002, 12:44 PM
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I'm down in Salem and am having the same problem with channel 6 dropping out. I thought it must be my particular setup, but I'm glad to hear I'm not alone. I'm using a Samsung SIR-T150 attached to a Winegard PR-9018 rooftop UHF antenna and preamp. I've been assuming the dropouts were due to some error I made in installing it, in particular with the coax cable run. I purchased 100 ft. of RG-6 coax from Radio Shack and initially just ran it in from a window to make sure the antenna worked (which it did without dropouts, in my recollection). Afterwards, I cut about 30 unnecessary feet from one end of the cable and put on a twist-on type F-connector and it's seemed like ever since I've been getting the dropouts. Is that even possible as a cause? Or is it truly only the fault of the transmitter problems mentioned above? Or both?

By the way, is anyone else reading this board receiving HD in the Salem area? How are your results? Even with the preamp I can only get about 55% signal strength at best...
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post #65 of 8675 Old 10-04-2002, 02:56 PM
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GFox,

I think typically what you would see as a result of borderline reception would be picture freezing and large macro-block pixelation with the audio still coming through in some cases. These are total drop outs where it appears the signal is temporarily cut off altogether and you get a blank screen. It sounds like that is prob what you are experiencing as well.

As I said before, Lee knows about it but I think he thinks it is only happening once or twice an hour. He has said they have tried to pinpoint the prob but just have not been able to isolate it. It's unfortunate because KOIN has really been the most responsive and solid DTV station with only this one issue. Well, other than the fact that they also have that weather/traffic cam on 6-3. I think some of the minor pixelation that shows up in fast motion scenes would prob be eliminated if they shut that thing off. Not really sure why they have it up at all. Does anybody even care about it? Maybe it has some thing to do with "staking out the space" for future use or something....

ron
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post #66 of 8675 Old 10-04-2002, 03:45 PM
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CSI next week sounds good to me. Let's "talk" some more (or send me PM) to discuss the details. Mostly, I just want to make sure others are having problems synchronously with mine. I put a 4 bay bowtie in the attic yesterday and now typical signal indications are around 93 on my dish 6000. Direct line of site from the Bald Peak are south of Hillsboro.

I'm expecting a truck from Magnolia to deliver the new Sony 40" direct view set within the next ten minutes or so. Its gonna drive me nuts if I have to watch analog feeds on it because of drop outs. Actually, maybe I shouldn't refer to them as drop outs. The image freezes with the different colors smeared across the screen and with the audio muted -- for maybe 5 to 10 seconds. Typically, I get brief pixelization shortly after that. Then it may be OK for 10 minutes or so.

Gary A.
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post #67 of 8675 Old 10-04-2002, 04:34 PM
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Just wanted to chime in and get on board with the KOIN problem. I'm in Sherwood. I have a Samsung 150 with a Channel Master 4228, 8 bay bow tie with a 26db preamp. I get all of the channels at 60-80% reception. KOIN absolutely drops out between 2-6 times an hour and it has almost pushed me over the edge (no other channels exhibit this behavior).

I thought it was my setup and tweaked my system for days attempting to fix the problem. I wish Lee would respond and give us an update on what is going on and any intended fix in the future. I also thought it was my 150, but it appears that others are having the same problem with different boxes.

I'm in on the time sync thing. I will watch CSI and post my log. I'd like to get in on any PDX group that would like to meet/talk about setups, etc. Thanks.
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post #68 of 8675 Old 10-04-2002, 10:29 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys! Misery loves company. Are we going to log CSI Miami or CSI Las Vegas? Are we going to call out the scenes it happens in or try to time by our watches?
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post #69 of 8675 Old 10-05-2002, 07:41 AM
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I suggest Miami on Monday and times.
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post #70 of 8675 Old 10-05-2002, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
I think some of the minor pixelation that shows up in fast motion scenes would prob be eliminated if they shut that thing off. Not really sure why they have it up at all. Does anybody even care about it? Maybe it has some thing to do with "staking out the space" for future use or something....

Why even have the SD channel? We all are capable of tuning in either channel and I never watch the SD channel, too much pixelation, so why even waste the bandwidth? Lee, care to comment on this? KATU only has one channel.

Just so you guys know, I also record a lot of KOIN programs on my Dish PVR 501 and KOIN is having a blanking issue with the Dish satellite signal as well. The frequency is about the same: 5-6/hour but the black out length is only about 1/4 second or so with a total loss of video and audio.

You measure your TV in INCHES? How cute! 9.16 Ft Diagonally, Yeah, Baby!
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post #71 of 8675 Old 10-05-2002, 06:23 PM
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I'm good with logging CSI Monday night. I don't think its really necessary to accurately synch clocks (being fairly close and being able to calculate times between hits is likely most important). At any rate, here's a nice simple NIST site for setting your watch: http://nist.time.gov/

I'm mostly curious as to whether we're all seeing the same thing - independent of receiver make/model.

BTW I watched part of the HD SEC football game today and didn't notice many breakups.

Gary A.
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post #72 of 8675 Old 10-07-2002, 12:08 PM
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Hi,

I live in East of Lincoln City. Any hope of getting any of the HDTV channels. Just wondering if it was worth trying. I am able to receive the non hdtv channels.

Thanks
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post #73 of 8675 Old 10-07-2002, 12:30 PM
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I'll log Miami tonight as well. With my Mits box the dropouts are very consistent. During CSI on thursday I was counting seconds and they were all just about 3.5 seconds long.

Andy64, what you describe sounds more like a reception problem to me as what most of us are seeing is just blank screen when it happens. Or maybe the Dish 6000 just handles the dropout differently?

dj7675, I'm no expert but I would think the chances of picking anything up from Lincoln City over the coast range would be highly unlikely.

ron
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post #74 of 8675 Old 10-07-2002, 04:35 PM
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I get a video freeze and no audio for a few seconds. During Hack Friday night it happened 4 times, one I distinctly remember is when the guy with the cab came out and it was missing. The other was during a commercial for an anti-depressant.

If I can stay up that late tonight, I will log as well, otherwise I will record it to tape and view it later and post the results.

You measure your TV in INCHES? How cute! 9.16 Ft Diagonally, Yeah, Baby!
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post #75 of 8675 Old 10-07-2002, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
I think some of the minor pixelation that shows up in fast motion scenes would prob be eliminated if they shut that thing off. Not really sure why they have it up at all. Does anybody even care about it? Maybe it has some thing to do with "staking out the space" for future use or something....

Yea, I figured it's "for future use". To compound the problem, since the SD channel is a simulcast of the HD channel, when the HD needs alot of bitrate, so does the SD channel, since they have the same content. I find it especially noticable on "flashes" of light such as those that seem to occur during program openings, like CSI's. It's pretty predicable. 'haven't noticed it during most "talking heads" scenes, but if something blows up, you'll see pixellation.

You have a right to install OTA and dish antennas on property under your control.
See http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
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post #76 of 8675 Old 10-07-2002, 11:03 PM
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Here are the times and duration of drops during CSI Miami

2204:36 4 sec
2221:44 4
2222:05 2
2225:14 4
2225:25 2
2237:05 4
2255:27 4
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post #77 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 05:03 AM
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CSI drop outs:

foelker, what receiver are you using?

Here's what I logged - essentially the same as foelker. I'm using a Dish 6000 receiver.
In my case, the image froze with no audio for roughly 5 seconds each time.
We were watching channel 40.01

04:37 minutes after the hour.
21:47
22:08
25:17
25:28
37:08
55:28

At least now I know that its not my particular receiver, location or antenna that is causing the problem.

Gary A.
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post #78 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 08:16 AM
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Looks like we definitely have a pattern. My setup SIRT150, CM4228 w preamp.

I wasn't as exact as you guys but the times match up:

10:04 - Picture freeze, then audio drop, then the dreaded "no signal"
10:22 - Same
10:22 - Again
10:25 - Same
10:25 - Again
10:36 - Same
10:55 - Same

I also noticed the "pixelization" at time of fast focus changes and movement, which I have attributed to a compressed signal, since the rest looks perfect, not the same problem as above.

My question: How do we get this back to KOIN so they know we are not just making this up?
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post #79 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 08:26 AM
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You guys and your military time . Looks like I got exactly the same thing except one additional hiccup that was different:

10:04
10:21
10:22
10:25
10:25
10:29 (pic froze with slight pixelation and an audio buzz for about a second)
10:37
10:55

Except for the "other" prob at 10:29 they were all about 3.5 seconds with complete audio and video dropout (black screen). All were during the show except the first which was during a commercial. I'm using a Mits receiver and am pretty close in at somewhere around three miles from the towers.

BarryO, my experience exactly.

ron
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post #80 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 08:33 AM
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Starbuck, Lee will see it here (he started this thread remember). I'm guessing he's been following this but has been silent lately since we started talking about KOINs probs. He's well aware of the problem but maybe now he'll see the extent of it and the fact that it's occuring to seemingly every receiver type. I'm sure he'll chime in when he gets a chance or has some news.

ron
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post #81 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 10:03 AM
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I'm using a DST-3000
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post #82 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 10:28 AM
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Wow, I'd been attributing these glitches to my marginal reception location, but I got the same last night for CSI Miami. 'good to know it's not just me. I'm sure it'll get fixed eventually.

You have a right to install OTA and dish antennas on property under your control.
See http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
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post #83 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dj7675
Hi,

I live in East of Lincoln City. Any hope of getting any of the HDTV channels. Just wondering if it was worth trying. I am able to receive the non hdtv channels.

Thanks

I think UHF is going to have a very tough time making it over the coast range.

How is your reception of analog channels 49 and 24? If you can't receive them reasonably well, then you're probably out of luck, until such time as the stations set up digital translators on the coast (which will be after 2006, I bet).

You have a right to install OTA and dish antennas on property under your control.
See http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
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post #84 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 10:33 AM
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No new information, just lending my 2 cents to the thread.

I also experienced the dropouts during CSI Miami last night. I didn't measure the times like you all, but your descriptions should very similiar.

I am viewing using a RCA F38310 with the built in DirectTV/Over Air tuner. I am using the over air antenna with a simple set of RCA rabbit ears. My location is in Cedar Mill just below the towers. My signal seemed to be hovering right aroud 70% each time I check.

Like many have said, it's good to know it's not my setup.

Michael
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post #85 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 10:35 AM
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I saw the same thing at 10:29:34 that R11 saw -- not the usual Pixelization sort of thing. Kinda strange, plus an audio "buzz" that's hard to describe.

I also had very minor pixelization at 10:00:51, 10:31:09, 10:45:0?, and10:58:04 but they were very brief and not of much concern right now.

Gary A.
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post #86 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 10:53 AM
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I had the same problems during CSI miami on my samsung 150 as well. The pixelization problem is quite annoying to me. When they had 6-2 and 6-3 turned off for the US Open there was considerably less pixelization. The HD feed is just not getting the bandwidth it deserves. I can't believe that there is anyone out there with an HD tuner that is watching 6-2 or 6-3 (as entertaining as the traffic cam is.. ). so why waste bandwidth on it? Doesn't make any sense to me. I can watch a whole episode of Alias with no breakups and no pixelization and thats with a meager 55% signal strength (damn, sucks being too close to the towers!).
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post #87 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 10:57 AM
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So here's a stupid question. Can you be too close to the towers?

Is it a problem with the signal getting broadcast basically right over/past your house/antenna?

I ask because I live in the hills close to the towers and like steinfoot typically get signals in the 55% range.

Thanks
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post #88 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mpenwell
So here's a stupid question. Can you be too close to the towers?

Is it a problem with the signal getting broadcast basically right over/past your house/antenna?

I ask because I live in the hills close to the towers and like steinfoot typically get signals in the 55% range.

Thanks

you too? man it sucks when people in Salem get similar signal strength. I wish there was something more I could do. I have the bowtie with a signal amp right now. it seems to do a good enough job, but it would be nice to have a stronger signal.

anyone have any ideas?
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post #89 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mpenwell
So here's a stupid question. Can you be too close to the towers?

Is it a problem with the signal getting broadcast basically right over/past your house/antenna?

I ask because I live in the hills close to the towers and like steinfoot typically get signals in the 55% range.

Thanks

What receiver are you using? "55%" may mean different things on different receivers.

You have a right to install OTA and dish antennas on property under your control.
See http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
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post #90 of 8675 Old 10-08-2002, 11:32 AM
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I'm using the built in tuner OTA receiver that comes with the RCA F38310 direct view set. This tuner is a combined DirectTV/OTA receiver. Beyond that I am not sure what type if tuner it is. I would have to look that information up. I'll search the archive for more detailed info.
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