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post #991 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 08:57 AM
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Received an email this morning from Alan Batdorf at KATU. He said they are installing a "fix" this morning to the "glitch" problems we have been reporting. He is hoping to have a much-imporved signal out by noon today. Let's keep our fingers crossed. And thanks to Alan for being responsive and caring.

Bob
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post #992 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 11:18 AM
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A heads up from KATU, Alan emailed me and said he thinks they have a fix and it should be implemented by this afternoon (Wednesday).

You measure your TV in INCHES? How cute! 9.16 Ft Diagonally, Yeah, Baby!
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post #993 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 11:22 AM
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Yes, Alan! Much appreciated...
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post #994 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 12:21 PM
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Hey, I got an email from Alan at KATU and... j/k . This is very good news. Let's hope it "takes". Just think, a semi-stable big three. Funtioning WS from Fox and and an actual picture for UPN. OPB looks to be doing OK. WB up and awaiting HD equipment soon. All I can say is I'm knocking on wood. Now, about that multicasting....

ron
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post #995 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 12:55 PM
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Quote:


All I can say is I'm knocking on wood. Now, about that multicasting....

Is that Lee Wood you are knocking on? ;-) about multicasting?

You measure your TV in INCHES? How cute! 9.16 Ft Diagonally, Yeah, Baby!
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post #996 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 05:42 PM
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Posted this in the HDTV Hardware forum, but then I thought I would try here since you folks are familiar with OTA reception in Portland area. I live in the NorthEast edge of Tigard.

Got my dish 6000 installed today with the 8vsb OTA module.

Good News is I got the DISH HD package and it looks awsome.

Bad News is I'm not getting any OTA channels.

I have a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF Antenna. I am 5 miles from the towers but I can't actually see the towers from my house due to some small rolling hills. I planned to install in the attic, but I didn't have time to get that setup before the installers came so I just temporarily attached it to my deck on the second floor of my house. Now I know that isn't an ideal setup but I'm getting 0% signal, and I would think if I just had it sitting on the ground I would get something. Also I am getting all the analog channels just fine.

The installers say it's my antenna. They told their boss exactly what antenna I had and he said 'good luck getting HD on that antenna' that I needed a 'High Definition antenna', one of those 'hamburger grill' antennas. Which I eventually deciphered as a double bow tie, and I've read that those are good, but I want the VHF as well and I've read that a number of people have had success with the 3016. So they say it's my antenna, I say it's the 8vsb or receiver. Well they don't have another 8vsb or 6000 with them, so I should try the 'hamburger grill' and if that don't work then they will come back out and swap the hardware. I think that is a bunch of malarky.

Anyway, I'm going to get the other antenna just to prove them so I can get them to come back out and fix this.

Shouldn't I be getting some kind of signal strength even if I've just got a coat thanger?

Thanks,

Don
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post #997 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 06:15 PM
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I have a VHF/UHF antenna in my attic that receives KOIN-DT HDTV just fine!

The antenna is about 6 feet long, 4 feet wide.

I got it a long time ago, and don't remember the brand, except that it didn't cost more than about $40...

I'm in SW Beaverton, not with line-of-sight to the towers (low hills block my view).

My RPTV-based "Narnia Theater"
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post #998 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 06:40 PM
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Hi Don,

Your installers and his boss are full of it.

I'm down in Albany, Oregon (below Salem), about 70 miles from the Portland stations, and I'm pulling in Portland HDTV
with a Channel Master VHF/UHF antenna. I have the Channel Master 3671

http://www.channelmaster.com/pages/c1.htm

Which is similar to yours, but bigger since I'm much further away.

I can verify that I can pull in the OPB station from Corvallis (10 miles away) with NO ANTENNA!. That is,
just a strip of coax cable plugged into my HDTV receiver and I can get the Corvallis station.

It is not your antenna per se.

However, I'm not sure what the 'hills' you refer to may be doing. If they are small, I wouldn't think
it would be a problem.

Also, you have a directional antenna, so be sure you play around with pointing the antenna
in different directions.

At 5 miles away, you should be able to get HDTV with a pair of rabbit ears!

There is no need for any such thing as a "High Definition" antenna. The signals are broadcast
on the UHF spectrum, and a standard UHF antenna should work fine.

Call their bluff.

Shawn

Quote:


Originally posted by Bullfrog
I have a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF Antenna. I am 5 miles from the towers but I can't actually see the towers from my house due to some small rolling hills. ... I just temporarily attached it to my deck on the second floor of my house.
The installers say it's my antenna. They told their boss exactly what antenna I had and he said 'good luck getting HD on that antenna' that I needed a 'High Definition antenna', one of those 'hamburger grill' antennas. Which I eventually deciphered as a double bow tie, and I've read that those are good, but I want the VHF as well and I've read that a number of people have had success with the 3016. So they say it's my antenna, I say it's the 8vsb or receiver. Well they don't have another 8vsb or 6000 with them, so I should try the 'hamburger grill' and if that don't work then they will come back out and swap the hardware. I think that is a bunch of malarky.
Don

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post #999 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 06:53 PM
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Don,

I had to return my first OTA module as defective because it would not receive digital signals, only analog.

Cris

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post #1000 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 06:56 PM
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I agree with Shawn; I got decent signals (granted, not with a 6000) from 8 miles away with the 3010, which a far lamer antenna than the 3016. I got even better signals with the little indoor Silver Sensor. Actually, I got most of the signals with a wire loop! Absolutely, you should be getting SOMETHING, not zero on everything.
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post #1001 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 08:10 PM
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You may want to visite www.antennaweb.org, too.

They'll give you compasss bearings to the DTV towers and recommended antenna models based on your address. It's pretty cool.

My RPTV-based "Narnia Theater"
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post #1002 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 09:06 PM
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well, unfortunately Alan still communicates with me through "glitches" but then through email from time to time....sorry folks but I can't see any changes yet if they implemented any. I'm still hopping doe, maybe he will accept one of our invitations to visit us at home one day to experience the pro. I would be glad to help. It's all in the art of troubleshooting...
oh, as we speak, they just started running their 5.1 channels tests live (21:07), good luck guys up there.
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post #1003 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 09:07 PM
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Thanks for all your feedback.

I had been to antennaweb.org and had gotten a recommendation. It only required a yellow small small-directional, but I wanted to reduce the possibility for multi-path so I went for a directional. The 3016 is really overkill, but since I'm going to put it in my attic, I wanted a good antenna. Is it possible to have too much antenna.

I'd never really paid much attention before but tonight I discovered I can see the red lights on the towers from the top of the street say about 50 feet higher in elevation.

Does anyone know if there is anyway I can prove I'm getting a signal from my antenna. I guess I could buy an OTA receiver, but then that would be a hassle to return. Or I can buy their recommended antenna and when that doesn't work, get them to come out and replace equipment. Then I have to return that.
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post #1004 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 10:33 PM
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Bullfrog: Buy the OTA unit. Return is as easy as CC depicts in their ads. I got the Zenith 420, just for the heck of seeing what I could pull in. I have it hooked to the Silver Sensor and need to attenuate the heck out of the signal (10dB in-line and a variable RS patched in) as I am in direct line of sight of the towers. I'm on the north side of Bull Mtn. looking right down on them. The signal is far too strong in my location and results in severe multipathing. In fact, I need to point the SS toward the floor for best reception. Right now I have it sitting on the floor between my RPTV and the fireplace, fully out of sight (wife loves that!), but not in the attic or on the roof (and I love that!). Compass bearings vary from 11 to 16 degrees for most stations from my location, per antennaweb, so the directional SS works for me.

1500P: The new show on KATU, Brotherhood ... is looking real good - no stutters, etc. I think Alan got it fixed - at least for now. Let's hope it holds. Thanks again, Alan!

Bob
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post #1005 of 8675 Old 09-24-2003, 11:41 PM
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How about just tuning in the regular KOIN station on a portable TV directly connected to the antenna cable? I'll bet you get a signal. That'd show that the 8vsb OTA module should be receiving something.

My RPTV-based "Narnia Theater"
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post #1006 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 07:34 AM
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JimProuty-

I have to laugh about the compass directions. I recently wanted to be sure my roof top antenna was dead on to the towers so I went out and bought two compasses. One is a floating ball type meant for the car, the other a flat configuration with lines and arrows and stuff to be used on a map. I pulled out the big portland map which I had marked the towers on and my home and did the math to determine where the antenna should be pointing. This was all straight forward and simple. Now for the weirdness. No matter where in my livingroom, deck or yard could I get two readings the same, (using only one of the compasses). The readings varied by over 100 degrees. This is insanity. On my dining room table things were even worse. the compass was picking up the bolts that hold the legs on and reminded me of a oiygi (never could spell that) board. Bottom line is I always had plenty of signal so it really didn't matter.

On another note, nice to see West Wing in full HD last night. Someone should really pluck the chin whiskers off the first lady though.

Lew
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post #1007 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 07:48 AM
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A friend went to the Comcast office on Sandy Blvd yesterday and was told that Comcast will start broadcasting HDTV on Oct 8th.

They also said the HD will be "free" at first just to see how much interest there is. Don't know what the fee will be when they start charging.

The same friend happened to bump into a Comcast installer a couple of days earlier and the installer didn't have any knowledge of the HD on Comcast but he (the installer) would go with Dish network.

Per Ardua
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post #1008 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 08:05 AM
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Did anyone tune into ABC last night after 9pm, it was showing an ABC engineering HDTV test loop. Must have gone on for 45 minutes before they switched back to whatever reality show was on. Very odd it would go on for so long, guess it is the old 'wrong tape' issue. On the plus side the Monsters Inc trailer looked great and one of their test patterns looked very fancy.
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post #1009 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 08:40 AM
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Actually caught it when things went bad. First there was the normal program, followed by something goofy like from a bad sci-fi movie - various test bars, and hacking/virus message, saying something like "bet you can't code this".

Anyway, after a slight pause, the promo HDTV loop showing the Good Morning America set started playing.

Perhaps some new equipment had some buggy software...I don't think it was a wrong tape issue at all.

Mike

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we live in interesting times
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post #1010 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 08:55 AM
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Quote:


1500P: The new show on KATU, Brotherhood ... is looking real good - no stutters, etc. I think Alan got it fixed - at least for now. Let's hope it holds. Thanks again, Alan!

Don't be thanking him too soon here. Perhaps the reason Brotherhood came in so good for you is that it's on KOIN, not KATU... Maybe you should thank Lee Wood instead . I still have the same old glitches on ABC. Interesting though, first time in two years I remember seeing that HD loop they showed for a while last night. In between glitches it looked pretty good. At least maybe this will get them hotter on the troubleshooting mode and find what the real problem is. Seems like they haven't really isolated it yet.

Yes it was good to see WW in HD but just like ER last year, the quality was dismal for me at least. I pulled out a 19" set to compare the SD feed and it looks like they may have been doing a little zoom and cropping as the HD feed was a bit truncated top and bottom. That would also account for the less than stellar PQ.

ron
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post #1011 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 10:32 AM
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Ron: Oops, my mistake about Brotherhood. I guess I got so caught up switching back and forth from the KATU HD loop with the lip sync clapboard, et al, that I lost track of where I was. In any event, I thought Brotherhood was beautiful to watch, regardless of who broadcast it. Thanks, Lee.

Bob
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post #1012 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 01:12 PM
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I've always thought that you needed line of sight to the towers to get HD via OTA? But some of you guys are saying that "small hills" shouldn't make a difference. Unfortunately, I think that I have more than a "small" hill issue (in Happy Valley - right behind Mt. Scott in Clackamas). In fact, when I first moved into my house a few years ago, I tried a big Radio Shack antenna in my attic just to try to pick up SD OTA, but could not get very good reception (fuzzy on some stations, nothing on others). Given that fact, do you guys think I have any chance of getting HD via OTA?

I have been patiently waiting for Comcast HD, but I'd rather not abandon Directv altogether (and having a tough time thinking about how to justify paying for both). If I thought that I could get local HD via OTA, then maybe I should think about going out and buying a Directv receiver w/ OTA? Although the tought of plopping down $400+ for a satellite HD receiver doesn't thrill me (compared to renting one from Comcast) ... especially with how much you guys complain about broadcast glitches via OTA (realizing that Comcast might be just the same - but at least I wouldn't be making a big capital investment, only to be disappointed).

Any thoughts?

(FYI - I'd be watching on an Infocus X1 projector, which I realize doesn't do "true" HD ... but I've heard it looks VERY nice. Anyone with experience with the X1 and HD?)
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post #1013 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 01:35 PM
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I am in eastern Vancouver and can get OTA HD just fine. I usually get (aside from PBS) signal strength from 80 to 90% on my Dish 6000. Until recently I thought ABC breakups were due to signal strength(or multipath) issues. Good thing we have a forum to share info!

BTW, are there any repeater antennas for the Vancouver area? Seems like pretty good reception for being so far away.
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post #1014 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 02:43 PM
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KATU-DT is still screwed up. Alan Batdorf replied to one of my messages with this:
Quote:


Thanks, considerable work was done at the transmitter to get things
equalized properly. I still see problems on my DTC as well. The EQ process
on our existing driver, the other is at the factory for evaluation, was not
100% successful.

which I am assuming he would not mind my quoting.

I recorded about 45 minutes of the test material they were running last night and then ran a test program (ec.exe) on it. It gave about the same results as from a few weeks ago: an average of 4 continuity errors per minute. In contrast, KOPB-DT gave zero errors in 30 minutes.

The error checking program is here:
http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/%7Ebalazer/ec/
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post #1015 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 08:57 PM
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WooHoo! Threat Matrix did not have one single glitch during the entire hour! Way to go, Alan, I am going to shoot him an email right now.

You measure your TV in INCHES? How cute! 9.16 Ft Diagonally, Yeah, Baby!
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post #1016 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 09:41 PM
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Yes !!!! I've also sent Alan a congrats email. First time I've been watching any ABC show clean of glitches. Seems like a little pressure (Comcast upcoming HD service) helped.
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post #1017 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 09:46 PM
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49 seems to be messed up and I was wondering if anyone else is having problems. I have a SIRT151 and whenever I change channels to 49, it seems to cycle between green and red attempting to lock it, but never does. The remote won't work, it's almost like it is hanging- cycling between green and red. The only way for me to get it out is to disconnect the antenna, then it comes up with the "no signal" and will let me flip to another channel. This began last night. Any ideas? Thanks.
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post #1018 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 10:25 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Marissadad
WooHoo! Threat Matrix did not have one single glitch during the entire hour! Way to go, Alan, I am going to shoot him an email right now.

Same here. I'm looking forward to Sunday and the Alias debut!

My RPTV-based "Narnia Theater"
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post #1019 of 8675 Old 09-25-2003, 11:31 PM
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Starbuck, I have a Dish 6000 and just tried tuning in 49 and it was OK.

You measure your TV in INCHES? How cute! 9.16 Ft Diagonally, Yeah, Baby!
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post #1020 of 8675 Old 09-26-2003, 08:27 AM
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In Milwaukie last night, there were plenty of audio dropotu on "Threat Matrix".
The audio drop outs were not as bad as in the recent past. The problem made the MNF Dallas @ Giants (9/15) almost unwatchable. I used to work for Fisher, onwers of KATU. They have had money troubles and I wouldn't be surprised if the DT audio problem doesn't continue for a while.

hd-head
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