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post #2611 of 8675 Old 10-17-2004, 10:46 AM
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Seahawks game not in HD???? Anyone got the story?
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post #2612 of 8675 Old 10-17-2004, 10:57 AM
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Looks like they're working on it, judging by the number of times the image freezes/goes black. So far no luck, tho.
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post #2613 of 8675 Old 10-17-2004, 11:18 AM
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Well that looks better!

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post #2614 of 8675 Old 10-17-2004, 11:28 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Marissadad
The baseball game on Fox today sure looked sweet! I hope UPN get's fixed in time for Enterprise Sunday night.

I thought it looked kind of dark but someone last night told me that Fenway Park isn't a bright field at night.

I've heard that the Sunday Enterprise rerun is never in HD.

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post #2615 of 8675 Old 10-17-2004, 11:32 AM
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Interesting how the FOX NFL halftime clips are all 16:9 but in upconverted SD! Widescreen SD will still be around some form for a while.

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post #2616 of 8675 Old 10-17-2004, 03:54 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by scowl
I've heard that the Sunday Enterprise rerun is never in HD.

CRAP! My Voom guide says HD, I guess I will have to submit to SD again. Maybe next week.

You measure your TV in INCHES? How cute! 9.16 Ft Diagonally, Yeah, Baby!
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post #2617 of 8675 Old 10-17-2004, 04:23 PM
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OK, now that I've got a few minutes to get my head out of the HD racks, let me bring everyone up to date on Fox 12 and UPN 49's HD project that many of you have, um, "noticed."

As of 4:15 PM Sunday, our Fox splicer is timed so that net/local switches are clean without upcuts nor repeats. From here on out, if Fox is sending it in HD, we'll be switching to it. Sorry for all the stream interruptions, the only real way to see what's being transmitted is to transmit it and look at the return MPEG stream for anomolies, and when the network loads new settings, it takes the splicer offline momentarily. Normally, we'd bypass it, but that gets to be a pain after about the 30th time you do it, so we decided to live with the interrupts.

Local audio - I know, it's very, very low. We're looking in to it aggressively. For those who are interested, the new HD encoders we're using are, for some reason, not paying attention to the REF LEVEL settings for the digital embedded audio we're feeding them. The audio is at proper levels going in to the endcoders, it's just not being encoded at the proper level. We're going to continue to chase this on Monday with the manufacturer - I'm hoping for a software upgrade to fix it.

Friday night's issues with Enterprise were being caused by a balky video processor here at the studio - it all worked fine in offline tests, but when we put the signal on the air, we were seeing nasty instabilities in the MPEG stream that were causing our transmitter to alarm and "flip out" on us. It took a while to find the problem, which ended up being a single $10.00 cable with a bad connector! Until we figure out the audio encoder issue, audio on UPN 49 is going to be low on both local and Net programs because all of the KPDX content goes through the local encoder as opposed to Fox's splicing method, which effectively takes the lcoal encoder out of the circuit during Net events.

I want to take a moment to thank all of you for your support, suggestions and above all, patience with this. As many of you know, we're still doing this in "off" time between other projects and most of the people working on it are our engineering staff enthusiasts with HD sets at home. We're finding better support now from our bosses, even though Neilsen still can't measure how many of you are watching, because we no longer wanted to be the only stations in Portland not broadcasting HD.

See, sometimes viewer pressure (and, I must admit, peer pressure from the other station engineers) works - we have pride to protect just like everyone else.

We'll continue to work the remaining problems this week and hopefully have enverything ironed out before next weekend and the World Series.

One favor I'd like to ask of any of you who'd care to participate - I'd love to hear from you about what you're seeing in the OTA program guide being transmitted by 12 and 49. We obviously know what we're sending, and can decode it on a couple of receivers here, but we get varying levels of accuracy from the various receivers. If you'd like, send me an e-mail at ed.williams@meredith.com and let me know if your program guide is accurate and complete (you should be getting correct show times, titles and, for most shows, episode descriptions) and what recveiver make and model you're using. We'd also be interested to see if your particular setup is properly decding the EIA-708 HD/Digital closed captions we're sending, which are being translated form the analog EIA-608 captions on the regular stream.

Again, thanks for everyone's ethusiasm for this project.

Edward E. Williams, CPBE
Director of Engineering
Fox 12 / PDX-TV
Portland, Oregon
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post #2618 of 8675 Old 10-17-2004, 06:47 PM
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Thanks for all of your hard work, Ed, I really appreciate. The games today were awesome after the Seattle feed turned HD.

You measure your TV in INCHES? How cute! 9.16 Ft Diagonally, Yeah, Baby!
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post #2619 of 8675 Old 10-17-2004, 06:47 PM
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Ed, thank you for taking the time to give us this update and for getting KPTV and KPDX up and running in HD!! I'm sure many of us appreciate your efforts.
It's really nice to know just were everything stands and what you're still working on.
Thanks again,
Earl
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post #2620 of 8675 Old 10-17-2004, 10:18 PM
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I would also like to say thanks Ed and echo what earletp and Marisssadad have already said.
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post #2621 of 8675 Old 10-18-2004, 04:46 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by edwardewilliams
One favor I'd like to ask of any of you who'd care to participate - I'd love to hear from you about what you're seeing in the OTA program guide being transmitted by 12 and 49. *snip* We'd also be interested to see if your particular setup is properly decding the EIA-708 HD/Digital closed captions we're sending, which are being translated form the analog EIA-608 captions on the regular stream.

I'm using a Dish 811, which pretty much ignores PSIP for everything except channel mapping, so no program guide here. However, Closed Captioning seems to be working fine, save for a few glitches with the 811 itself (onscreen graphics can often corrupt video, sometimes the captions won't display without forcing the box to display another graphic first). I just tuned into Cops, which is displaying captions precisely the same as it does off the analog channel (or from the Dish encoding). But to be sure, you are only sending 708 over the digital channel, not 608, correct? I've read that some stations send both, as some receivers only decode one or the other. I believe the 811 decodes both.

Quote:


Again, thanks for everyone's ethusiasm for this project.

Some of us would give our eye-teeth to be right there with you but then some of us know what a pain in the ass it is. I'm not about to give my eye teeth, but I wouldn't mind being paid handsomely for that pain.
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post #2622 of 8675 Old 10-18-2004, 08:59 AM
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As a point of clairification, we are transmitting translated EIA-708 captions as an ATSC data stream AND leaving the EIA-608 captions in the video vertical interval for the older receivers and TV's.

So no, we're not exlcusively transmitting 708 captions alone.

Edward E. Williams, CPBE
Director of Engineering
Fox 12 / PDX-TV
Portland, Oregon
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post #2623 of 8675 Old 10-18-2004, 09:07 AM
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Well, I'm glad I didn't lobby too hard for my friends to come over after dinner Friday to watch the first HD Enterprise in PDX . That little one minute taster about 15 minutes in was cruel . But at least we got to see the last 20 minutes or so in HD style!

Watched a little HD football and baseball yesterday morning and evening on KPTV which was very nice to be able to do. Thanks Ed for the hard work and pushing the upgrades through.

As far as the Sunday night repeat of Enterprise goes, somewhere in the back of my brain I seem to recall reading that it does not come from the network, but is just a rebroadcasted recording that the local affiliates do? And since they have no way at this time to record in HD...

ron
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post #2624 of 8675 Old 10-18-2004, 02:41 PM
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Ron,

I think your guess is right. No HD-Enterprise last night. Oh well, have to wait for reruns later in the season.

Let me also echo others and thank Ed for his hard work in getting the HD up and running on KPTV/KPDX.

HZ
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post #2625 of 8675 Old 10-18-2004, 04:22 PM
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Thank you Ed and all the others at FOX getting us HD. I watched a little bit of the baseball game on Saturday and the picture and sound were amazing. Just wish I could reliably lock in the signal. The constant audio drops and macroblocking and freeze frames, made me switch back to analog, since my digital signal fluctuates betweeen 18-25%. The weather outside doesn't look like it is going to let me swap antennas anytime soon
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post #2626 of 8675 Old 10-18-2004, 04:59 PM
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Here is the response I got from KATU regarding the problem I'm having with my Sansung T150 following a new scan.

Your loss of KATU occured when we initiated a multicast on 2.2. Although you did not lose us at that point, if you did another channel search after that, we would disappear. The PSIP information being created by our encoder is not 100% correct. Samsung receivers are sensitive when it comes to PSIP information. I have notified the manufacturer and sent them documentation of what is wrong in the signal.

I should probably shut off the multicast, temporarily, so people can receive us again.

Alan
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post #2627 of 8675 Old 10-18-2004, 08:14 PM
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Speaking of the whole PSIP info with my Smasung SIR-TS160, I only have info from KGW at this time. KATU, KOIN, KPDX, WB, OPN, UPN have no info.
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post #2628 of 8675 Old 10-18-2004, 08:21 PM
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I have no program info on KGW, never have, or KATU for that matter.
I do have guide info for KOIN, KPTV and KPDX, though I have no show on KPDX, just a black screen.

I recall Pat turning off the guide for KWBP about a month ago due to problems it was having, as far as I know he hasn't got it working again yet.

Thanks for the info on KATU, now I know where World News Now went...
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post #2629 of 8675 Old 10-18-2004, 10:10 PM
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KPDX was down again, this time from 8:00pm until 10:00pm, hopefully they get the primetime bugs worked out soon.
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post #2630 of 8675 Old 10-18-2004, 10:12 PM
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On KGW the shows aren't actually listed but it has changed from the default "regular schedule" to "DTV programming" I figured that was something on KGW's end.
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post #2631 of 8675 Old 10-18-2004, 11:46 PM
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Is PSIP information supposed to indicate whether or not a program is in HDTV?

My PSIP scans of local stations: KGW just shows "DTV Program" for all the slots, KOIN gives accurate descriptions but only a few hours into the future, KPTV gives tons of descriptions for days of programming, KPDX also gives many days of info but only program titles, KATU and KWBP give no information, and KOPB still isn't sending a complete enough PSIP structure for my (open source) PSIP interpreter to understand.

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post #2632 of 8675 Old 10-19-2004, 12:06 AM
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Well, i was pretty sure that I was watching Enterprise in HD Sunday evening. It sounds from some of the posts as though it wasnt in HD?

On a seperate not, KGW kept blanking out during Las Vegas and LAX. I ended up watching it via DISH. (Which is not nearly as good as the HD version ( I don't have HD Dish reciever).

I'm hoping it was an equipment problem, not a prblem with the rain.

Thanks for all the hrd work from the stations! HD is really excellent!

Rick
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post #2633 of 8675 Old 10-19-2004, 12:16 AM
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I also took a look at all our local stations at the ATSC level (non-geeks will probably want to skip this) with a DTV stream scanner:

KOPB has one channel on program 1 with one audio stream identified as English.
KPTV has one channel with two audio streams which are identified as English, but why is it program 3 instead of program 1?
KPDX has the same thing, one channel with two English audio streams on program 3.
KWBP has one channel with one English audio stream on program 2. Again, why not on program 1?
KOIN has two channels, both with two audio streams, on programs 1 and 2 but doesn't Identify the languages as English.
KGW has the same but identifies both audio streams as English.
KATU has one channel with one English audio stream on program 2.

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post #2634 of 8675 Old 10-19-2004, 08:41 AM
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Your loss of KATU occured when we initiated a multicast on 2.2. .......... I should probably shut off the multicast, temporarily, so people can receive us again.

Alan

Hmmm, I was wondering why MNF looked so good last night. Full bandwidth is a beautiful thing. That was as good of 720p as I have seen. Despite full bandwidth on Fox as well, their 720p baseball was not even in the same ball park .
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Well, i was pretty sure that I was watching Enterprise in HD Sunday evening. It sounds from some of the posts as though it wasnt in HD?......On a seperate not, KGW kept blanking out during Las Vegas and LAX. I'm hoping it was an equipment problem, not a prblem with the rain.

Definitely not HD Enterprise on Sunday. Their SD upconverts look pretty decent so far but nothing like the real thing. I watched Vegas last night and other than some pixelation during the opening credit piece (due to insufficient bandwidth), their signal was solid. Sounds like you may be having some reception probs alright.

ron
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post #2635 of 8675 Old 10-19-2004, 08:50 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by R11
Definitely not HD Enterprise on Sunday. Their SD upconverts look pretty decent so far but nothing like the real thing.

It's true. Lots of us got to compare the two many many times Friday evening.

Does the (temporary) end of multicasting on KATU mean a (temporary) end to ABCNow or whatever ABC is calling their 24 hour news channel?

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post #2636 of 8675 Old 10-19-2004, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by scowl
I also took a look at all our local stations at the ATSC level (non-geeks will probably want to skip this) with a DTV stream scanner:

KOPB has one channel on program 1 with one audio stream identified as English.
KPTV has one channel with two audio streams which are identified as English, but why is it program 3 instead of program 1?
KPDX has the same thing, one channel with two English audio streams on program 3.
KWBP has one channel with one English audio stream on program 2. Again, why not on program 1?
KOIN has two channels, both with two audio streams, on programs 1 and 2 but doesn't Identify the languages as English.
KGW has the same but identifies both audio streams as English.
KATU has one channel with one English audio stream on program 2.

What Hardware and Software are you using to disect the signals? KOIN's audio should be PIDs 0x014/0x024 as English and 0x015/0x025 as Other/None (sometimes Spanish, sometimes Video Description).

Also, you want more PSIP Program Guide data? You got it. 3 days worth now.
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post #2637 of 8675 Old 10-19-2004, 12:07 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Lee Wood
What Hardware and Software are you using to disect the signals?

I'm using an HD-2000 card in a Linux machine and the program is "dtvstream" which is a simple ATSC stream decoder that someone wrote for free.

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post #2638 of 8675 Old 10-19-2004, 12:15 PM
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Quote:


Also, you want more PSIP Program Guide data? You got it. 3 days worth now.

Hey Lee, I'd be happy just to get rid of the audio static noise on 6-1 . I did notice that it was better last night but it's still there. Any hope of eliminating it soon? Thanks.

ron
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post #2639 of 8675 Old 10-19-2004, 12:20 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by rickie
Well, i was pretty sure that I was watching Enterprise in HD Sunday evening. It sounds from some of the posts as though it wasnt in HD?

Rick

It was not HD. I recorded it on my PVR and it was letterboxed all the way around. If it was HD, it would only have black bars top and bottom and fill the screen.

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post #2640 of 8675 Old 10-19-2004, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by R11
Hey Lee, I'd be happy just to get rid of the audio static noise on 6-1 . I did notice that it was better last night but it's still there. Any hope of eliminating it soon? Thanks.

ron

There might be if I could hear it, which I have not yet. When does it occur? Is it on all programming CBS-HD and local upconversion, too? What equipment are you using? Is there a DD5.1 decoder involved? What happens if you bypass it?

The CBS-HD audio passes straight through embedded with the CBS-HD video from the satellite receiver. We don't touch it. Local audio we embed into the upconverted video. Both streams get switched into the ATSC encoder and it takes it from there.
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