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post #721 of 1717 Old 01-11-2005, 03:15 PM
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Some viewers reported having problems receiving WWLP-DT. Further investigation found that some of the packets in the ATSC stream were possibly missing. This resulted in some tuners showing channels as 11-2 and 11-3 (versus 22-1 and 22-2) and sometimes without names (WWLP-HD and WWLP-WX) ... other tuners were unable to tune the channel at all.

Equipment was reset at 4:42 PM on Tuesday 11 Jan 2005 and all looks good. Any reception problem reports subsequent to that time would be appreciated.

In the next few days some changes will also occur with the PID's (a packet identifier in the ATSC stream). The ATSC standard requires that all broadcasters stop using a certain range of numbers - so most broadcasters will have to reprogram their encoders. More information can be found on the http://www.atsc.org web site. You may have to rescan to pickup these new PID's when they're changed. Will post a note when the change is made for WWLP-DT.
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post #722 of 1717 Old 01-12-2005, 10:55 AM
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I just tried to get 22 and I get nothing. I live in Feeding Hills about 2 miles from the transmitter so that is not the problem (and never has been). I get 22-1 WWLPDT, 22-1 WWLP-HD, 22-2 WWLP weather, etc. That is how it is showing up on my HD TIVO box. The other over the air channels like WFSB 3, WTIC 61, and WVIT 30 have all been coming in fine.
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post #723 of 1717 Old 01-12-2005, 11:18 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Vuce
I just tried to get 22 and I get nothing. I live in Feeding Hills about 2 miles from the transmitter so that is not the problem (and never has been). I get 22-1 WWLPDT, 22-1 WWLP-HD, 22-2 WWLP weather, etc. That is how it is showing up on my HD TIVO box. The other over the air channels like WFSB 3, WTIC 61, and WVIT 30 have all been coming in fine.

Sorry - bit confused with your message. It says I get 22-1 WWLPDT, 22-1 WWLP-HD, 22-2 WWLP weather, etc. ... but then you note I just tried to get 22 and I get nothing.

Could you try to rescan or delete / add channel 11 (WWLP-DT) and see what happens? Not familiar with the TiVo boxes - is this just a stand-alone box (with ATSC tuner) or something that's cable or satellite oriented?
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post #724 of 1717 Old 01-12-2005, 06:03 PM
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Sorry for the confusion - I have a DirectV Tivo HD box. The header on the channel ID says 22-1 WWLPDT, then the next one says 22-1 WWLPHD (that one was never there before last week), next channel in the listing is 22-2 then 22-3. That shows up on the header but when you want to watch the channel it says searching for satellite signal. The box uses an over the air antenna to get the local HD stations. WTIC 61, WFSB 3 & WVIT 30 all come in strong but WWLP is blank - that is, no reception.
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post #725 of 1717 Old 01-12-2005, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't know if any of you guy's have been watching WGGB's digital strength. I went from 2 to 55, don't know if that means they might start doing something. Or it might be the wind is blowing in the right direction lately. RPM you don't know anybody at WGGB that could give you some info on what they are doing. I know they are your competitor, but you must know someone.

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post #726 of 1717 Old 01-12-2005, 09:22 PM
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Ralphy...

You're going to have to show me how you read signal strength one of these days. Is that on your OTA setup or on Comcast?

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post #727 of 1717 Old 01-12-2005, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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It's on the Sat. It will show you how much signal strength there is. I will see you on Saturday, Steve said you were watching the game there. The signal meter will show you when you have a good signal.

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post #728 of 1717 Old 01-12-2005, 11:32 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Hi ... you must be near or in Worcester county to be getting UHF stations from the Boston area! If you could post (or PM me) information regarding your location - I'll see if I can do some research regarding the reception of WWLP-DT. Of course - the big question is: how do you receive the WWLP analog signal on channel 22?

I live in Goshen about 10 miles northwest of Northampton and at close to 1400'. With DTV-11 I've always been on the fringe of reception only managing to lock a signal at night, TV-22 has always come in perfect. DTV13 out of Providence comes in so the problem shouldn't be my antennas and DTV33 which is in the same direction as DTV11 started coming in perfect once they went full power. When will DTV11 go full power?
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post #729 of 1717 Old 01-13-2005, 09:44 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Vuce
Sorry for the confusion - I have a DirectV Tivo HD box. The header on the channel ID says 22-1 WWLPDT, then the next one says 22-1 WWLPHD (that one was never there before last week), next channel in the listing is 22-2 then 22-3. That shows up on the header but when you want to watch the channel it says searching for satellite signal. The box uses an over the air antenna to get the local HD stations. WTIC 61, WFSB 3 & WVIT 30 all come in strong but WWLP is blank - that is, no reception.

I think this relates to the problem with the VCT packets in the transmission. The information that contains the familiar channel number along with the short names was missing. Reset of equipment earlier this week seemed to fix the problem.

One of the issues I think we all see is that every vendor (and for that matter, maybe every generation) of ATSC tuners does something a little different in their software. Without the VCT info WWLP-DT should have looked like 11-2 and 11-3 ... that may be where the 22-2 and 22-3 came from on your box? I just fired up the computer with the HiPix card and scanned the airways ... attached is a picture of the channel scan and the technical info regarding the channels.

The first column is the friendly channel numbers: 22.1 and 22.2
The second column is the RF channel number
The third column is the PID's of the video and audio ... 0x means "hex" (base 16 match)
The fourth column is always "4" and I don't know what that is!
The last column contains the short identifier for the station ... its just text transmitted in the stream

If you can somehow rescan or delete and add WWLP-DT ... it may clear out the old information and get what is currently being transmitted in your ATSC tuner.
LL
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post #730 of 1717 Old 01-13-2005, 09:58 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Vuce
Sorry for the confusion - I have a DirectV Tivo HD box. The header on the channel ID says 22-1 WWLPDT, then the next one says 22-1 WWLPHD (that one was never there before last week), next channel in the listing is 22-2 then 22-3.

Following on from my previous quote - attached is a partial screen shot (limited to 600x600 resolution) of the TSReader Lite program's analysis of WWLP-DT transmissions this morning. Here's a bit of info for those who may be interested in what its telling you:

ATSC transmissions streams are comprised of small packets - all 188 bytes in length. Each packet has an identifier that indicates what is in the packet - there's a type and an ID. Most of these things are described using hex (aka hexadecimal) numbers. This is indicated by the 0x prefix.

Here you see WWLP-DT having two programs. Program #2 is WWLP-HD and that program's info is described by PID 0x20 (or 0x0020 - same thing). Given any program PID you can predict the video and first audio streams. The video is usually +1 and the audio +4. So packets encoded as 0x0021 belong to 22-1 video information and 0x0024 belong to 22-1 audio.

The highest numbered PID's, like 0x1FFB, typically contain information used by your tuner to figure out what is being sent in the ATSC transmission. This includes program guide information (which many stations are in the process of implementing).

If you've got an ATSC tuner card (there are a lot of versions, the one I'm using is the HiPix card, which may no longer be available ... the HiPix software was actually something developed by a group here on the AVS Forums!) that can record a transport stream - you can use a program like TSReader Lite (its free) to actually look at a stations transmissions: its all just computer data!
LL
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post #731 of 1717 Old 01-13-2005, 10:11 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ralfy1
Don't know if any of you guy's have been watching WGGB's digital strength. I went from 2 to 55, don't know if that means they might start doing something. Or it might be the wind is blowing in the right direction lately. RPM you don't know anybody at WGGB that could give you some info on what they are doing. I know they are your competitor, but you must know someone.

No, sorry. I personally don't know anyone there though I have occasionally bumped into folks from there at an broadcast engineering society type meeting. I have seen some fluctuations in their ATSC signal but haven't looked at it on a spectrum analyzer or anything to see what the real RF signal levels are. Anyone else made note of their RF levels? (Though I live a bit of a distance from Mt. Tom its pretty much line of site and I can receive it with a properly adjusted loop antenna indoors.)
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post #732 of 1717 Old 01-13-2005, 10:31 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JasonAndreas
I live in Goshen about 10 miles northwest of Northampton and at close to 1400'. With DTV-11 I've always been on the fringe of reception only managing to lock a signal at night, TV-22 has always come in perfect. DTV13 out of Providence comes in so the problem shouldn't be my antennas and DTV33 which is in the same direction as DTV11 started coming in perfect once they went full power. When will DTV11 go full power?

WWLP-DT is up there ... so it shouldn't be a power issue. Have you tried a rescan or delete/add of ATSC channel 11? If you want to PM me with your address or lat/lon I can look at what the terrain looks like between you and Provin Mountain.

You get WPRI-DT? That's cool. And that's a pretty good haul as well!
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post #733 of 1717 Old 01-13-2005, 01:38 PM
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Problems with WWLP-DT reception?

WWLP made some minor modifications to its ATSC digital transmissions
on Thursday 13 Jan 2004 at 4:00 PM. Although many ATSC tuners will
automatically adapt to these changes many viewers may find that they
have to either rescan their digital channels or delete and add WWLP-DT
for continued reception.
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post #734 of 1717 Old 01-13-2005, 02:13 PM
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Bob...

Does this mean that WWLP is actually broadcasting a "digital" quality signal now (not HD) and if so... should it be showing up in the 84-x range or back in the single digit areas of Comcast's feed?

Quote:


Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Problems with WWLP-DT reception?

WWLP made some minor modifications to its ATSC digital transmissions
on Thursday 13 Jan 2004 at 4:00 PM. Although many ATSC tuners will
automatically adapt to these changes many viewers may find that they
have to either rescan their digital channels or delete and add WWLP-DT
for continued reception.

I don't know whether you are involved with marketing at your station, but I would imagine that from my point of view as a sales/marketing guy, I'd love the fact that my local ABC affiliate is willing to look "dated" by not offering HD programming. As these HD sets gain in popularity... and they are... consumers will be hunting for HD programming. If I'm a local advertiser (let's say Balise?) and channel 22 has programming in analog, didgital and HD vs channel 40 who has analog and digital (?) but no HD whatsoever... and the cost for a 4-times daily 30 second spot for one month is the same price... BINGO! It's a no brainer.

I probably used the analogy before so I apologize for the redundancy. I liken Sinclair/ABC's attitude to the story about the parents who are watching thier sons march in a a military school graduation parade. One proud mother turns to the lady next to her and says... "look at them, 500 of our nation's best and my son is the only one marching in step, what a shame".

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post #735 of 1717 Old 01-13-2005, 02:28 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by IronHorse
Does this mean that WWLP is actually broadcasting a "digital" quality signal now (not HD) and if so... should it be showing up in the 84-x range or back in the single digit areas of Comcast's feed?

Unfortunately I don't have a lot of first hand Comcast experience as I don't live in a community served by Comcast and the WWLP facility is likewise served by a different cable company. I believe on the local western Mass systems Comcast is carrying WWLP-DT 22.1 (the 16:9 channel) as it is transmitted, 100% bit for bit. I think the channel number is 822.

Of course - a great deal of the time what is on 822 and the regular WWLP channel (I think Comcast channel 5) is really simulcast ... on 5 you see the NTSC transmission and on 822 you see the 22.1 subchannel of the WWLP-DT transmission. The bandwidth allocated for WWLP-DT far exceeds what is necessary for a standard NTSC signal ... either way, most of the plant and associated content is actually digital. I think there have been some subjective comparisons in some of these threads regarding comparing the NTSC and ATSC transmissions; sometimes you can't really tell much of any difference. HTH
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post #736 of 1717 Old 01-13-2005, 04:02 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RPMcCormick
... I just fired up the computer with the HiPix card and scanned the airways ... attached is a picture of the channel scan and the technical info regarding the channels. ...

Attached is another picture of a channel scan at 7:00 PM this evening. See my posting above for additional info.
LL
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post #737 of 1717 Old 01-13-2005, 06:26 PM
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Ironhorse, I absolutely agree. All advertisers should be made aware that WGGB/Sinclair has elected not to deliver their message to the (presumably relatively affluent due to equipment cost) cable HD viewers. At a minimum, they should request a reduction in rates relative to the other broadcasters (yeah, WWLP!).

In addition, Sinclair is an impediment to the ability of electronics retailers and manufactures to sell HDTV product. Locally, the absence of MNF and the bowl games, nationally, they have a # of Fox affiliates, so no Superbowl. "My Free HDTV" is a thinly disguised attempt to extort massive funds from the cable companies...and ultimately the cable viewers.

Hit them in the pocketbook and they'll start paying attention.
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post #738 of 1717 Old 01-13-2005, 06:35 PM
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I think Comcast should call Sinclair's bluff and provide any viewer in a Sinclair DMA with a box that accepts both cable and OTA. Most places all you'd need would be the Silver Sensor antenna; unfortunately it seems like we need something more powerful to pull WTNH. By the way, if we rig it up, is there anything else down south that would help justify the effort (UPN, WB: any HD worth viewing?)
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post #739 of 1717 Old 01-14-2005, 08:35 AM
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I just got off the phone with "Pete" from WGGB, Channel 40 in Springfield, who was actually nice enough to call me back. He confirmed that WGGB-DT had increased their transmitter input power from 800 watts to 30KW starting on Friday, January 7. He was curious about how their DTV signal was coming in in West Hartford, and I confirmed a strong and pixelization-free signal at my house.

I also asked him about the progress of HDTV at WGGB, and he confirmed that the station is about 3/4 of the way there. There is some more studio work to do, which should be completed within the month, and that they have to install a new HDTV studio-to-transmitter link, and have ABC engineering come in to upgrade some satellite receiving equipment. He said that they expect to be HDTV operational at some point in the spring, and that the increase in transmitter power was part of the HDTV upgrade. Interesting news to those in Western Mass. waiting for ABC HD...

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post #740 of 1717 Old 01-16-2005, 02:35 PM
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couldn't find anything on the cbs website, but avsforum thinks it should be 5.1. not getting it through comcast (did for Fox on earlier game). Is this a CBS or WFSB problem?
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post #741 of 1717 Old 01-16-2005, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by aldujaparov
couldn't find anything on the cbs website, but avsforum thinks it should be 5.1. not getting it through comcast (did for Fox on earlier game). Is this a CBS or WFSB problem?

Previous posts in the Hartford, CT - HDTV thread indicate that WFSB is not transmitting in Dolby 5.1 ... only AC3 stereo.
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post #742 of 1717 Old 01-17-2005, 06:23 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by cgorra
I just got off the phone with "Pete" from WGGB, Channel 40 in Springfield, who was actually nice enough to call me back. (snip)

I also asked him about the progress of HDTV at WGGB, and he confirmed that the station is about 3/4 of the way there. There is some more studio work to do, which should be completed within the month, and that they have to install a new HDTV studio-to-transmitter link, and have ABC engineering come in to upgrade some satellite receiving equipment. He said that they expect to be HDTV operational at some point in the spring, and that the increase in transmitter power was part of the HDTV upgrade. Interesting news to those in Western Mass. waiting for ABC HD...

This is interesting because I was under the impression that WGGB was going digital, but not HD (16:9). If this is indeed true, then I rescind my remarks regarding their lack of a marketing plan that would allow them to compete head to head with CBS and NBC in this area.

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post #743 of 1717 Old 01-17-2005, 01:27 PM
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its good to see that there are ota hdtv channels for the taking. however I live on a street off sumner avenue that has tall trees. for this reason I had to have an exotic dtv install which entails a dish on the front of my house as well as one on a pole in the backyard allowing the triple lnb setup to work. my house is fairly tall [3 stories and pitched roof with a flat section] so I am wondering if any springfield residents in a similar situation tree cover wise can suggest an outdoor antenna setup that works. been to antennaweb and they suggest by the provided chart that even with the tall trees I should be able to get a ton of channels realtively speaking. currently I have a flat terk antenna on my roof but I dont think it was properly installed since the guys who just redid my roof said it wasnt connected to anything. so do I investigate having a mast antenna placed on my roof to augment what dtv has or would an indoor antenna work? who even does antenna installs in the springfield area?

TIA
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post #744 of 1717 Old 01-17-2005, 01:45 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by digital_b_avs
currently I have a flat terk antenna on my roof but I dont think it was properly installed since the guys who just redid my roof said it wasnt connected to anything. so do I investigate having a mast antenna placed on my roof to augment what dtv has or would an indoor antenna work?

You shouldn't have too much problems with the locals (WWLP, WGBY, WGGB) as they should provide a pretty good signal that would work with even a modest antenna. The issue will be more with channels 31, 33 and 35 - and a single UHF antenna fixed to the southwest may work for those guys. (I live a ways north and east of Springfield can can pretty reliably get the CT UHF HD stations noted above with an indoor antenna.) Sorry - don't have any recommendations for antenna installers ...
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post #745 of 1717 Old 01-18-2005, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by digital_b_avs
its good to see that there are ota hdtv channels for the taking. however I live on a street off sumner avenue that has tall trees. for this reason I had to have an exotic dtv install which entails a dish on the front of my house as well as one on a pole in the backyard allowing the triple lnb setup to work. my house is fairly tall [3 stories and pitched roof with a flat section] so I am wondering if any springfield residents in a similar situation tree cover wise can suggest an outdoor antenna setup that works. been to antennaweb and they suggest by the provided chart that even with the tall trees I should be able to get a ton of channels realtively speaking. currently I have a flat terk antenna on my roof but I dont think it was properly installed since the guys who just redid my roof said it wasnt connected to anything. so do I investigate having a mast antenna placed on my roof to augment what dtv has or would an indoor antenna work? who even does antenna installs in the springfield area?

TIA

I live in Feeding Hills so it is not a direct comparison but I get WFSB at 90%, WVIT at 85%, WTIC at 80 to 85%, WWLP at 90% and now WGGB at 85 to 90% all with an indoor Silver Sensor.
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post #746 of 1717 Old 01-29-2005, 01:04 AM
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As of Friday evening 28 Jan 2005 it appears that Charter has put WTIC-DT HD up on channel 778 in the Springfield area.
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post #747 of 1717 Old 01-29-2005, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Charter, they dont sevice Springfield do they. I thought it was only Comcast. Didnt think we had a choice for cable, I might be wrong.

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post #748 of 1717 Old 01-29-2005, 09:39 AM
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not wrong.
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post #749 of 1717 Old 01-29-2005, 10:50 AM
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Looks like on the Charter system in the Springfield area its FOXHD on 786 ... but currently in black.

Charter serves: Chicopee, Hampden, Wilbraham, Easthampton, Southampton, Hadley, Ludlow, East Longmeadow and Belchertown MA
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post #750 of 1717 Old 02-01-2005, 06:43 AM
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Is anyone else having a problem receiving WGGB (40-1)? I've been getting blank screen for the last week or so even though I've been getting a signal between 40%-63%. I wasn't really concerned about it since the channel wasn't HD, but now I'm just curious.
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