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post #181 of 1718 Old 04-04-2003, 10:00 AM
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Such,

Dave Cote at WWLP has been responsive in the past, although he did not get back to me about the programming info. Send him an email and I will too. Maybe if we pepper him with emails, he'll take care of it! His address is dcote@wwlp.com

I saw an earlier post in this thread about the 01105 zip code and used it in local 2. It works for only a few DTV channels. It does not work for any of the 57-subs and as you said 22-3. I never tried WGGB because I get WTNH for ABC-DT.

I'll send that email out and let you know.

Ralph
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post #182 of 1718 Old 04-05-2003, 08:03 PM
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looks like TV 40 is finally boardcasting in HD. I got a 55-2 tonight, and its an ABC station.

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post #183 of 1718 Old 04-08-2003, 07:12 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by richardyc
looks like TV 40 is finally boardcasting in HD. I got a 55-2 tonight, and its an ABC station.

rich

I tried and could not get this.

You sure?

What times?

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post #184 of 1718 Old 04-08-2003, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah nothing here yet either. If they have a second DT channel for HD is there any HD being shown or just showing the SD feed?

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post #185 of 1718 Old 05-05-2003, 05:48 AM
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WGGB sucks..... I watch channel 8 from CT now...

Screw TV40, they won't do HDTV then I won't watch em...

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #186 of 1718 Old 05-22-2003, 06:52 AM
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I have read most of this thread and I am moving to Pelham from Boston,

I had a difficult time figuring out where you all were located (besides W/mass CT) and what equipment you were using to pull in signals.

I am encouraged that there are HD signals to be had in the area, I have been spoiled in Boston with all of everything.

So. . .

Do I need to use an external antenna to get any signal? amp? no amp? rotator? just a bowtie?

The house is halfway up the side of a good sized hill facing south and west.

North and east are the wrong side of the hill. but If I get really crazy I think I could put an antenna up on the top and run a cable.

J
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post #187 of 1718 Old 05-29-2003, 11:47 AM
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post #188 of 1718 Old 05-30-2003, 08:18 AM
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I'm in cental CT and I don't watch much NBC. When I do watch it, I watch WWLP-DT. My normal signal strength is about 51-58.

I was anticipating watching the Kentucky Derby in HD and pulling in a 51 signal until about 5:00 pm when the signal dropped to 30 and the dropouts/freezes were to frequent to watch. I had to watch the race in SD. THE HORROR!

I tried WWLP-DT again for the Preakness and the signal dropped again around the same time. I was able to hang in at 37 in order to watch the race with only one or two dropouts.

Both days were sunny with no wind. I don't know if it was a coincidence that it happened at 5:00 on both days, or if it is something atmospheric.

Anyone else notice decrease in signal around this time?
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post #189 of 1718 Old 05-30-2003, 08:27 AM
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Had no problems either day on WWLP (at least no pixelization on my setup so I never checked signal strength).
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post #190 of 1718 Old 05-30-2003, 11:52 AM
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Greetings:

New to the forum - figured I post a few comments regarding some of the postings here:

As you're aware, WWLP is on ATSC with two channels:

WWLP-DT 22.1 = 5.3 Mbps 4:3 480i SD programming
WWLP-HD 22.3 = 12.8 Mbps 16:9 1080i programming

22.3 carries an upconverted version of the SD programming and automatically switches to HD programming with NBC network feeds.

The horizontal lines that someone noted with the 22.3 broadcast are actually the usually non-visible scan lines of the NTSC signal. This is where information such as closed captioning, among other things, is encoded.

Transmissions are from Provin Mountain in Feeding Hills MA - roughly 10 miles due west of Springfield MA. (This is the same tower that the main WWLP TV22 analogue signal is transmitted from. Channel 65 also broadcasts from another smaller tower at this site.)

WWLP-DT is on channel 11. That's VHF - NOT UHF! If you're distant from Provin Mountain - or have terrain issues between you an Provin - you'll want to be sure you're using a proper antenna for reception of WWLP-DT's frequencies! (Note: there's a BIG frequency jump between VHF channel 13 and UHF channel 14.)

WGGB (ABC) and WGBY (PBS) broadcast both their analogue and digital signals from Mt. Tom. As you know - 40 is on 55 digital and 57 is on 58 digital. For most viewers in western Mass, you may need a separate (UHF) antenna pointed in a different direction to properly receive those signals. It is my understanding that WGGB-DT is still transmitting with low power. I have also noticed the (often) lack of audio on WGBY-DT 57.1 during daytime (when they're running four channels: 57.1 through 57.4).

As most of you are already aware - ATSC signals are either there nor not ... there's no concept of a marginal signal (like local reception of analogue TV signals from distant stations). One poster in Goshen noted the ability to receive digital stations from Boston: that's not the norm! A good directional antenna and fairly clear path would be necessary to accomplish that. (Unlikely anyone in the general Springfield area could receive digital channel 20 from Boston as there is not only terrain problems to the east - but also interference from the analogue channel 20 in CT.)

Often the signal strength readings on digital television receivers does NOT represent the strength of the RF signal, but some representation on how well the signal is being received. For example, when using a PC tuner card like the HiPix - anything from the mid-40's and below will usually result in drop-outs ... signals in the 60 to 70's ranges are typical ... and if you can achieve something 80 or above: you should have a rock solid signal!

WWLP is currently not transmitting any program information in its digital signal. As for Titan, DirecTV and others: hopefully all these other information providers are now up-to-date with local programming information.

BTW: WWLP is a LIN Television Corporation station. Sister stations include WTNH ABC in New Haven as well as WCTX. WTNH-DT (10) went on the air 4 Dec 1998 - first digital station in CT. WCTX-DT (39) went on air 6 Dec 2002. Both stations transmit from Mad Mare Mountain in Hampden CT. If you've got a good location and/or a good antenna (typically outdoor) you should be able to receive these in the local Springfield MA area. (For many users - the general direction would also provide you with digital signals from other Hartford CT stations, too.)

I'll periodically be lurking in this forum thread ... feel free to post questions and observations and I'll try to help if possible.
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post #191 of 1718 Old 05-30-2003, 01:01 PM
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Does anyone in Amherst/Pelham or further north receive WFSB DT at all?

It measures 55 miles from Pelham at 218* the problem is that it is the only CBS station in the area.

The other locals I should get fine with a small antenna.

Thanks,

J
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post #192 of 1718 Old 05-30-2003, 01:35 PM
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55 miles seems a bit far ...

WFSB / WFSB-DT is located at:

N41 46 30 = 41.775
W72 48 20 = -72.80555

55 miles looks like New Salem - or nearly the top of Quabbin. The intersection of Routes 9 & 202 is aproximately 41 miles.

If you've got a clear shot - I wouldn't think it would be too much of a problem. A friend of mine west of Springfield has a small UHF dish up about the tree line - and he can pull CT digital dignals no problem at all - including distances much further than what I think you're shooting for.
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post #193 of 1718 Old 05-30-2003, 02:24 PM
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Cool,

I think I do have a clear shot. I am not moved in yet but the house is on the side of a small mountain (read hill)in Pelham just south of New Salem with a clear horizon south and west.
i do not know the actual elevation but it is significantly higher than Amherst.

Thanks for the help.

I will let you know what happens.

J
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post #194 of 1718 Old 05-30-2003, 08:10 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RPMcCormick




22.3 carries an upconverted version of the SD programming and automatically switches to HD programming with NBC network feeds.


Bob great to see your post...very helpful. I was wondering if the "stretched" programing such as the
22 news shows is the norm for ch 22.3? I have a 16 x 9 HDTV
and the stretched look is not flattering at all. Any possible solutions? Something I may be doing wrong?
Again thanks for your posts.
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post #195 of 1718 Old 05-31-2003, 06:18 AM
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Quote:


Bob great to see your post...very helpful. I was wondering if the "stretched" programing such as the 22 news shows is the norm for ch 22.3? I have a 16 x 9 HDTV and the stretched look is not flattering at all. Any possible solutions? Something I may be doing wrong? Again thanks for your posts.

Thanks ...

I believe in fact that the upconversion of the SD broadcast to 16:9 on 22.3 is indeed always stretching the 4:3 to fit the 16:9 format. How did they used to say at the start of one of those old series? Do not attempt to adjust your TV, we have control of the signal!

Seriously ... whilst this may not be that objectionable for scenery and some sporting type events - it surely makes shots of people quite distorted! I'm not sure if the upconverter can do anything different - but this has been escalated to Dave Cote, WWLP's Chief Engineer. Will post more information as I find out.
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post #196 of 1718 Old 05-31-2003, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Bob it's hard to tell if you work for 22 or if you just know alot about them. Your sig makes it look like you somehow work for them. If you do, what do you do. Just wondering, you have lots of good info. It would be great to have someone on the inside. Also if you know anything on those slackers at WGGB 40, it would be appreciated. They just don't seem to want to get things going to HD anytime soon.

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post #197 of 1718 Old 05-31-2003, 09:46 PM
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I would just like to know how talks are going between WWLP and WGGB for Comcast carriage for HD. I heard that they are in talks and would like to know when they Comcast will be carrying the HD. I have a box from Comcast now to receive HD and it's killing me just watching HBO when everyone else has got the networks in Boston from Comcast.
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post #198 of 1718 Old 05-31-2003, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I have DTV so I get the over the air HD channels. But the thing that bothers me is how long do the talks have to go on for. Comcast and these stations for some reason are taking there sweet time in coming to an agreement. WGGB would be a waist to have on anyway they don't show any HD. I think to get these stations moving faster would be to allow cable companies to bring in stations outside the area that are showing HD. We should be allowed to view Boston HD channels if the local station doesn't show HD. It's not fair for us to have to wait until the get things going. WTNH was showing the Hockey game tonight in HD WGGB was showing crap.

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post #199 of 1718 Old 06-01-2003, 07:22 PM
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Hi Bob,

Welcome to AVS. I've traded emails with Dave Cote at WWLP in the past, most specifically about the guide data. I'm receiving my data from DirecTV and still nothing shows up on 22-3. I'm just west of Hartford and I pull in WWLP-DT pretty well with my monster attic antenna. I have posted some reception problems that hit me at 5:00 pm on the days that both the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness ran. Unfortunately right around post time. Hopefully it won't happen next week during the Belmont. Other than those two instances I have enjoyed NBC programming on WWLP. Is WWLP transmitting their digital signal at full power?

When WVIT-DT, NBC Hartford goes on-line next month, I'll be sure to let them know that I'm watching WWLP!!

Ralph
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post #200 of 1718 Old 06-02-2003, 08:13 AM
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Did anybody get a response from WGGB 40. They better be ready before monday night football starts.
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post #201 of 1718 Old 06-02-2003, 01:52 PM
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You can say that again or there are going to be alot of angry people in this town!!
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post #202 of 1718 Old 06-02-2003, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Well that's what I'm wondering. How many of us can get WGGB, if it's enough of us then we have to start plowing them with e-mails letting them know we are not happy. If they think they're enough angry people here then they might get moving but if it's a small number then they probably will drag there feet until they think it's time.

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post #203 of 1718 Old 06-03-2003, 05:58 PM
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Greetings all - will try to catch up on a few questions ...

I'm a contract engineer at WWLP ... although I'm not directly involved with the digital plant, like most of you - I'm very much interested in this leading technology. (I'm also a ham radio type, too.)

There's nothing over the last few weeks that would explain any drop-outs from the WWLP side of life ... one thing that I have found in experimenting with ATSC is that its very sensitive to multipath and somewhat sensitive to receiver blocking and interference. I think time will tell as the technology is further deployed and things stabilize!

As for power ... WWLP-DT is currently running under what the FCC calls an STA. If you're not familiar with the FCC's on-line database, try out this link:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html

WWLP-DT is currently running at 0.750 kW ERP ... but there are applications for increased power. I'm told this could take some time for approval due to coordination with Canadian authorities. (Any station within a certain distance of the border on either side has to go through this process.) Needless to say, it should only get better! [Also remember: don't compare VHF station power like WWLP-DT with UHF stations - it takes a lot more power to cover the same area with a UHF signal.]

On the FCC's web site you can also lookup other stations (maybe easiest is by call, but if you know your location you can even get a list within a certain distance!). Plots of antenna patterns may also be of interest. (WWLP-DT is pretty much omni but some stations may have directional signals.)

Looks like WGBY-DT (58) is running 50 kW ERP ... and based on their signal strength, I can believe that. OTOH, WGGB-DT (55) says 13.1 kW on the FCC web site - but I don't think they can be running their authorized power as I can't even get a single frame out of them. (I live northwest of Springfield and almost line-of-site to Mt. Tom where both stations are located.)

Out of fairness to WGGB ... hammering them with emails won't have much effect, I'm sure - especially if its to the engineering folks. A polite letter to Kevin LaRoux, WGGB's General Manager, may be more appropriate. I'm sure you can get their address from their web site or the FCC's web site.

There's a lot to building a TV station from scratch, especially using totally new technologies. To further the complexity - we're mixing a lot of old and new technologies together. And there are also financial and government issues thrown in the mix, too.

Regarding the comment about getting a distant station to provide HD signals ... that's a very complex issue. In the most simple terms, broadcasters have/obtain rights to provide programming for the areas they serve. This is why you may sometimes see shows "blacked out" on a distant station when a local station has the rights - and sometimes its even vice versa! I sincerely doubt that we'd see any changes in this in the near term ...

The solution: like in the old days ... get a big antenna and point it to where you can receive signals! WTNH-DT (10) may provide coverage for many people in northern CT and western MA 'till WGGB's plant is fully operational.

As for cable companies providing you with the ATSC signals from local stations: best to ask the local cable company about that. I'm sure there's lots of discussions going on ... and I don't know all the inner workings of all that. But as you can probably guess, from the technical standpoint - all the cable company has to do is receive the signal (either off air or directly fed by the broadcaster) and then get it to you. Note: you'll want to make sure that the cable company passes the signal through without any material degradation - I'd suspect that most will provide the local ATSC signals via a cable company provided STB.

Lastly, someone asked about 57.100. Some tuners won't even show that ... and if it does, most likely you won't be able to do anything with it. I'm told its a data stream ... if memory=correct, it identifies something like WGBYWWW.
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post #204 of 1718 Old 06-05-2003, 09:28 AM
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Bob,

It took me a while to find out but my place is somewhere between 650-700 ft elevation with a clear shot to the west and South. We are on the next hill to the West of Tower hill where the WFCR tower is located. So i expect with a decent antenna I should be able to pick up Springfield. i hope so because CBS does WAY more than the other networks in HD.

Thanks for poking in.

J
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post #205 of 1718 Old 06-05-2003, 09:40 AM
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Quote:


We are on the next hill to the West of Tower hill where the WFCR tower is located. So i expect with a decent antenna I should be able to pick up Springfield.

Sure - know the area well. That's the Caldwell Memorial Forest and environs ...

You'll probably need an external antenna - but by my quick estimate with mapping software you're about 45 miles away from WSFB. You may want to try to contact someone at WFSB to see if they're running full power and what the situation there is. BTW: WWLP (running with the reduced power) is getting good reports from people as far away as 30 miles ...
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post #206 of 1718 Old 06-05-2003, 10:19 AM
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I figure that I should extpect to get the following channels Digitally easily.

WWLP 11 HD NBC
WGGB 55 not HD? ABC Springfield
WGBY 58 HD PBS
WCDC 36 HD ABC Adams

Then the rest

WFSB 33 CBS HD Hopfully

I see no hope of receiving New Haven And Unless I am wrong there is not a Fox station broadcasting digitally currently in the area. WTIC Hartford sez Nov 03' on antennaweb.

So my wife will miss american Idol. I can live with that. It is the football games I am upset about.

Forgot to mention, WFSB is broadcasting digitally at 1 million megawatts? ( one million something anyway) from 370 odd feet up.

J
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post #207 of 1718 Old 06-05-2003, 10:54 AM
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I don't know what's going on with WGGB ... I think I saw one other post here that said they saw a hidef signal from them. I can't receive it at my house - and I'm less than 10 miles line-of-sight south east of Mt. Tom. (WGBY and WGBY-DT comes in with a strapping signal).

WGBY typically runs four channels during the day and then one at night - when they run lots of (now to me repeat) HD demo videos. I'm not aware of anything that's regularly transmitted on PBS (via WGBY) that's HD. But go into any A/V store in the area at night - and they'll surely have a set tuned to WGBY-DT. Demos good, too!

Of course, WWLP-DT - for whatever NBC programming is in HD.

You *may* be able to get CDC from Mt. Greylock ... my tuner will detect that there's a digital signal there but I've never been able to receive it. The analogue signal (channel 19) comes in - but not acceptably such that I'd watch it. There's a lot of terrain between me (and you) and Mt. Greylock (even though its the highest point in Massachusetts).

You are correct: in Springfield (something like market 104 or 105) there is NO FOX or CBS station - hence these come from Hartford. We're waiting on WTIC (the FOX affiliate) ... and WFSB has been up for a while now.

In your case - you may be able to mount a fixed an antenna (for both UHF & VHF) pointed south west - and that may cover NBC, CBS and FOX (when it shows up) - and possibly others, too.

As for New Haven (and even Boston for that matter): you'll have to give it a try ... you never know. I have heard of reports of some people in western Mass (i.e., west of Worcester county) being able to get digital signals from the Boston market. But that surely is NOT the norm ... and I've never seen it myself.

As for the football games - don't watch it myself ... does any of the satellite providers provide football in HD?

>> Forgot to mention, WFSB is broadcasting digitally
>> at 1 million megawatts? ( one million something
>> anyway) from 370 odd feet up.

A millioni megawatts?! Gee - let's see - that would be something like an exawatt? (I don't remember my prefixes up that high!)

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WFSB

As of this posting, the aforementioned link indicates that WFSB-DT is running with 20 kW ERP (see their STA). But their license is for 1,000 kW (which is one megawatt) at 375.8 meters above sea level. For me, its about 30 miles as the crow flies - and I'm unable to receive them with an indoor antenna.
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post #208 of 1718 Old 06-05-2003, 11:10 AM
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I do not think Boston is an option. It is 90 ish miles as the crow flies and even though I am at 700 ft I am on the western side of a hill that is a couple of hundred feet higher than I am.

Ahhh 1 megawatt,, Whatever.

I have been spoiled as I currently live in Quincy and receive everything digitaly

is WCDC passing HD signals from the Network? According to Antennaweb I should be able to get it easier than any of the Hartford Stations.
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post #209 of 1718 Old 06-05-2003, 11:48 AM
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Bob,

Can you explain how the programming information gets to our on screen guides? My DirecTV receiver shows programming info for WWLP's analog 22 and digital 22-1 but not digital 22-3. www.titantv.com does have the info for 22-3. I was trying to find this out in regards to one of our CT channels sometime back and DirecTV said it was the station's responsibility, the station said it was Tribune Media's responsibility and Tribune said it was DirecTV's responsibility. I have never been able to get info from WGBY. The guide shows "Regular Schedule" on all of their digital channels. I also have two digital channels in CT which do the same. It's a little frustrating, because I can't use my DirecTV receiver to timer-record if there is no program to highlight. I end up recording the analog broadcasts which in many cases look horrible.

Ralph
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post #210 of 1718 Old 06-05-2003, 12:04 PM
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I have been spoiled as I currently live in Quincy and receive everything digitaly is WCDC passing HD signals from the Network? According to Antennaweb I should be able to get it easier than any of the Hartford Stations.

Qunicy: yea - somewhere between 5 and 10 miles from most of the ATSC transmitters?! Welcome to western Massachusetts! We still dial 7-digits on the phones out here!

WCDC isn't a real station, but is a full power station relaying WTEN from Albany. I know for sure that WTEN-DT is doing HD but I have no information on whether the WCDC-DT transmissions parallel that. (Football games earlier this year were in HD on 10 in Albany.)
RPMcCormick is offline  
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