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post #361 of 10685 Old 01-02-2003, 08:33 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Philly Tim
I e-mailed WB-17 about the "flicker" problem earlier this week and got a reply today. In my e-mail, I had provided a link to this thread and invited the recipient to address this issues directly if s/he chose to, and indicated that I would share an e-mail reply here if I got one.

I'm assuming this person is not going to post anything here, so I will post the reply. However, out of respect for the individual's privacy, I'm not going to include the name and e-mail address.

Here was the reply:

"Tim,

We do have a software upgrade for our encoder scheduled. It fixes
an EIA-798 captioning problem, and also a re-boot problem with some Samsung receivers. This is the first I have heard of this problem. I hope this will take care of your problem. We will keep an eye out for this, thank you for letting me know."

ok it has been about 1 month for this flicker and i still see it. when will they do the upgrade?

how can they be unaware of a problem like that?
don't these people actually watch the channel in hd at home?
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post #362 of 10685 Old 01-02-2003, 08:42 PM
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First - I'm having some serious problems getting the game in...reception has been hit and miss, while I'm getting everything in OK.
Second - as Whotony observered: whats going on with the aspect ratio? Missing a bit off the top for awhile (the old 14x9), then they switched it to straight 4x3 for commercials (so I thought) but when it went back to the game it was still 4x3, but the top was lopped off! Like they framed the 14x9 (?is that what it is?) in a 4x3 or something. Whats going on?
WhoTony - you picking it up okay? Its all over the place here.

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post #363 of 10685 Old 01-02-2003, 09:36 PM
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picking it up no problem in Feasteville.

Save Your Frequent Flyer Miles !! Barber's jobs are also being exported to China, you will have to fly to China now for a hair cut.
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post #364 of 10685 Old 01-02-2003, 09:54 PM
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it was on fine except it looks fuzzy do to being zoomed to 14x9.
or converted or something.
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post #365 of 10685 Old 01-03-2003, 06:44 AM
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I sent this e-mail to upn57@wpsg.com today:

Dear WPSG:

Recently, you seem to have changed the aspect ratio for your HDTV broadcast. I'm guessing that your aim was to use the full screen.

Unfortunately, your change cuts off the top and bottom of the screen. Last night's Flyers game showed the scoreboard cut off and unreadable.

Please reverse this change. Most 16:9 TV sets allow the user to use zoom and stretch modes to produce the same effect if the viewer desires it. If you broadcast 4:3 material in 4:3 (or streched in 14:9 like channel 6), the entire picture is provided to the viewer. However, if you cut the picture off at the encoder, there is no way for a viewer who wants to see the entire picture to recover it. I personally have a 16:9 TV and prefer to watch 4:3 material in the original 4:3 aspect ratio.

WPHL 17 originally made the same change, and after many complaints changed back to 14:9. I would suggest that you do the same.

I use a Sony HD200 receiver with a Sony 34XBR800 television, should that information help you.

Sincerely,

Mark Smith
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post #366 of 10685 Old 01-03-2003, 07:45 AM
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. Reception must've been me then and the weather. I was getting everything else just fine, so I was beginning to think something was wrong at their end. Time to get a "real" antenna since I get them fine when the weather cooperates. Will check again when UPN carries the Bruins game at the end of the month.
Great email msmith. The stretched aspect ratio is tolerable, but I think it preferred to leave 4x3 at 4x3 (as was beaten to death with PHL!)

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post #367 of 10685 Old 01-03-2003, 12:42 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MSmith
I sent this e-mail to upn57@wpsg.com today:

Dear WPSG:

Recently, you seem to have changed the aspect ratio for your HDTV broadcast. I'm guessing that your aim was to use the full screen.

Unfortunately, your change cuts off the top and bottom of the screen. Last night's Flyers game showed the scoreboard cut off and unreadable.

Please reverse this change. Most 16:9 TV sets allow the user to use zoom and stretch modes to produce the same effect if the viewer desires it. If you broadcast 4:3 material in 4:3 (or streched in 14:9 like channel 6), the entire picture is provided to the viewer. However, if you cut the picture off at the encoder, there is no way for a viewer who wants to see the entire picture to recover it. I personally have a 16:9 TV and prefer to watch 4:3 material in the original 4:3 aspect ratio.

WPHL 17 originally made the same change, and after many complaints changed back to 14:9. I would suggest that you do the same.

I use a Sony HD200 receiver with a Sony 34XBR800 television, should that information help you.

Sincerely,

Mark Smith
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"WPHL 17 originally made the same change, and after many complaints changed back to 14:9. I would suggest that you do the same."

actually didnt wphl change from 14x9 to the proper 4x3 after some complaints of the pick being 14x9 and cutting off the top and bootom.

if that is the email you sent i think you may be confusing it even more.
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post #368 of 10685 Old 01-03-2003, 02:49 PM
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WPHL was originally using 4:3 zoomed to 16:9, with lots cut off of the top and bottom. They switched to 14:9 which is stretched a little horizontally, but has the same height vertically as 4:3. It's a compromise between filling the screen completely and no distortion. It works well because the overscan on the left and right helps fill the edges (thus, the logos and graphics aren't usually at the extreme left and right of the picture).
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post #369 of 10685 Old 01-03-2003, 03:31 PM
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i understand what you are syaing mark but 17 didnt switch "back" to a stretched 14x9 image it went to a standard 4x3 image with normal bars on the side for 4x3 material.
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post #370 of 10685 Old 01-04-2003, 08:36 AM
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Looks like Comcast in Philadelphia is no longer charging $10.95 per month for their HD channels. Now that they have integrated their digital and HD boxes into one box, all you pay for is digital cable and a $18 service charge to hook it up. Although they only offer ABC, NBC, PBS, HBO and Showtime, I will be able to add HBO and Comcast Sportsnet (as of Feb) with my OTA HD, with the hope that ESPNHD is added to their lineup in April.
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post #371 of 10685 Old 01-04-2003, 10:35 PM
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Anyone else have problems with ABC OTA today with the football games? I never have any glitches with ABC and today there were too many to watch the games OTA. I am in King of Prussia area.
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post #372 of 10685 Old 01-05-2003, 05:46 AM
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HDTV4 All,

I watched the first half of Packers-Falcons game before losing interest. Didn't notice anything unusual with the broadcast - no pixelation, no flickering, no dropouts. Signal appeared rock solid. I'm located in north Wilmington.
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post #373 of 10685 Old 01-05-2003, 06:36 AM
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Ch. 6 was solid, as usual.

Absolutely beautiful picture for non-HD.
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post #374 of 10685 Old 01-05-2003, 09:46 AM
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Solid Picture, here in Feasterville, PA.

Save Your Frequent Flyer Miles !! Barber's jobs are also being exported to China, you will have to fly to China now for a hair cut.
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post #375 of 10685 Old 01-05-2003, 10:52 AM
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I had some reception problems with ABC as well. Switched over to Comcast to watch it. I don't have a robust antenna though, and generally have issues when its raining.

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post #376 of 10685 Old 01-05-2003, 05:07 PM
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Have to give it up to Fox... they broadcasted the Giants, 49ers game in widescreen Thanks !!!!! Even if only at 480p..

Save Your Frequent Flyer Miles !! Barber's jobs are also being exported to China, you will have to fly to China now for a hair cut.
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post #377 of 10685 Old 01-05-2003, 05:57 PM
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Great game, even though we aren't watching it in Widescreen OTA.

Dawn
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post #378 of 10685 Old 01-05-2003, 06:35 PM
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Yea its nice to at least we get the Widescreen but its still only marginally better than the normal DirecTV satellite feed. Can't wait for next weekend and the CBS 1080i broadcasts.

I'm kind of upset however as my son has his first basketball game next Saturday at 4:45 and the Steelers-Titans come on at 4:30. Oh well at least I have UltimateTV just won't get to see it in HD. UGH!

GO STEELERS - WHAT A GAME WHAT A COMEBACK.

Go Eagles.
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post #379 of 10685 Old 01-06-2003, 01:24 PM
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I thought it looked pretty good.. much better than my DISH feed. Can't wait till next week... I wish all stations broadcasted in widescreen on their digital feeds.

Save Your Frequent Flyer Miles !! Barber's jobs are also being exported to China, you will have to fly to China now for a hair cut.
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post #380 of 10685 Old 01-06-2003, 01:39 PM
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I've been off the tread for a while. Has anyone heard any updates on NBC moving to the new tower? Is it still the end of this month?
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post #381 of 10685 Old 01-06-2003, 02:31 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Calabs
I've been off the tread for a while. Has anyone heard any updates on NBC moving to the new tower? Is it still the end of this month?

Last we heard, yes. But that will probably change when the end of the month comes.
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post #382 of 10685 Old 01-06-2003, 04:46 PM
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Unless my eyes are deceiving me, looks like the good folks at 57-1 have abandoned the zoomed-in picture for 4:3 program material. I don't know when the change back happened, since I've not watched much TV in recent days.

I don't fault them for trying it out, since it is a good thing to try out different techniques and presentations from time to time. I am sure that the intention was to make the viewing experience more pleasurable for the digital broadcast viewers, who are generally watching on widescreen TV sets (or HD-capable 4:3 sets with letterboxing). The zoomed-in picture (with a bit of top and bottom cut off) looked okay to me, but it was noticeably a bit softer than the "unzoomed" image. I've gotten used to the black bars, so I don't mind them.

I don't know how much say their chief broadcast engineer Jim Chase had in these decisions (I assume he plays a major role, but there are no doubt other people involved), but from his previous visits to this forum and thread, he is obviously fully committed to quality broadcasting. Perhaps some of the comments made on this thread (and via e-mails) provide some useful feedback on what the viewing consumers prefer in the way of aspect ratios. It's good that they try out something different, but even better when they take the consumer's preferences into consideration.

On another note, it looks like channel 6-1 is missing its PSIP signal today, since my tuner remapped it to the "real" channel. No doubt this will be noticed and fixed soon. If I recall correctly, when 3-1 and 57-1 had an apparent PSIP problem over the holidays, it was fixed within 24 hours. (In my imagination, Jim Chase was taking a few days off and letting the other engineers run the show. He probably sat down with a beer to watch a little digital TV and . . . . "Wha' th'?" . . . ended up running to the phone to call the engineering department. Heh heh.)

Hey, Jim, if you are reading this, please tell your new News Anchor Marc Howard to be more careful when he's jogging around Center City. He almost knocked me over a few months back when he zoomed around a corner. I'm no spring chicken myself, but I could STILL take him out!! (Just a joke. No need to call the police and ask for a restraining order.)

--Philly Tim
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post #383 of 10685 Old 01-06-2003, 06:56 PM
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Is Fox, transmitting everything in widescreen? I have to applaud them for them if it's true, wish everyone else would do the same.

Save Your Frequent Flyer Miles !! Barber's jobs are also being exported to China, you will have to fly to China now for a hair cut.
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post #384 of 10685 Old 01-06-2003, 06:56 PM
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Is Fox, transmitting everything in widescreen? I have to applaud them for them if it's true, wish everyone else would do the same.

Save Your Frequent Flyer Miles !! Barber's jobs are also being exported to China, you will have to fly to China now for a hair cut.
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post #385 of 10685 Old 01-07-2003, 03:48 PM
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NOpe, the simpsons aren't in widescreen

Unless your income is 1 million dollars, you are a cheap *******.
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post #386 of 10685 Old 01-07-2003, 07:55 PM
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Is it just me or was the WB17 flicker worse tonight during Smallville? Seemed like it was happening more frequently, and for a fraction of a second longer.

I sent an email to the wb17feedback@tribune.com address on their website. Will let y'all know if I hear anything...

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post #387 of 10685 Old 01-07-2003, 08:02 PM
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yes i saw that too.
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post #388 of 10685 Old 01-08-2003, 06:38 AM
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The WB flicker was worse on Monday night during Everwood as well.
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post #389 of 10685 Old 01-08-2003, 05:32 PM
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Anyone live in florence, bordentown, or fieldsboro,(new jersey) and can recieve nbc 10? wcau-dt?

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post #390 of 10685 Old 01-08-2003, 08:49 PM
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Philly Tim
I really enjoyed your post but need to set the record straight on the aspect ratio and psip issues. You were close on some of your suppositions about how these decisions are made but let me elaborate.
We had a massive power failure about 4:20pm New Years Eve. Lost both P.E. lines. The generators started and KYW was back on the air in seconds. WPSG had no audio for about 15 minutes caused by a tray of audio DA's being inadvertantly pluged into normal power.
At this time most of the KYW-DT and WPSG-DT equipment is not on emergency power. I'm sure you can imagine that most of our technical effort went into getting KYW back up for a news program scheduled at 5:00pm. With KYW and WPSG back up we checked out the digital stations and left to enjoy the holiday.
Now fast forward a couple days and I am just getting comfortable at home ( you were pretty close except it was a diet coke ) and fire up the computer to check the AVS forum. Search on KYW and WPSG and find the thread about the loss of PSIP mapping. OH crap, didn't check the PSIP computers. Can't remember if they are on emergency power. Call the station and get the maint. tech. to check them out. Good, now we have the correct PSIP mapping back. I read on and stumble on the 14x9 vs. 4x3 discussion. OH crap, the upconverter must be screwed up. I hate that Rhode & Schwartz upconverter. Another call and we're back to 4x3 on WPSG-TV. Gotta be more carefull with this stuff next time the power goes off.
Regarding the aspect ratio issue. There is no controversy at KYW, or CBS for that matter. I consider the alteration of the original aspect ratio nothing more than picture distortion which is avoided at all cost. You will never see that on my stations. The deviation from the 4x3 aspect ratio on WPSG was caused by a very unusual set of circumstances. Stuff like that doesn't happen to me twice!!!
If you ever notice any abnormal operation on either station please e-mail me right away.
Marc Howard's new office is just two doors down the hall from mine so I'll watch out for him running down the hall!!!!
CUL Jim


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KYW-TV / WPSG-TV
101 South Independence Mall East
Philadelphia PA, 19106
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