Pittsburgh, PA - OTA - Page 10 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-28-2003, 11:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
agtiny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cranberry Twp, PA
Posts: 836
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OTA for a few more days...
agtiny is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-29-2003, 04:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
kaa1954's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Posts: 686
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I watched "King of Queens" last night & yes there was at least 1 major audio disruption.(1-2 seconds) Also, there is still a video problem similar to the one that was supposed to be fixed. It is not as often or as noticable but it's there.
kaa1954 is offline  
Old 04-29-2003, 07:14 AM
Member
 
bryan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wheeling WV
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Now this is funny! If you are fortunate enough to receive WTOV-DT do watch it for primetime HDTV programming. WTOV isn't showing local commercials during breaks, just the animated NBC logo that comes over the network feed. I've never seen this on any other channel except for WPXI during Jay Leno, where they play music and have a Jay Leno slide during local breaks.

It reminds me of my old C-Band satellite days.
bryan27 is offline  
Old 04-29-2003, 07:21 AM
Advanced Member
 
agtiny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cranberry Twp, PA
Posts: 836
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
WPXI used to do that up until a month or so ago when they got their local commercial switcher thing. KDKA also just got one.
agtiny is offline  
Old 04-29-2003, 07:30 AM
Member
 
c_perrone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Butler PA
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bryan,

I am not able to see even a blip from WTOV-DT 57 here in Wexford. I was under the impression that their digital transmitter is in Burgettstown PA which is only 30 miles away via car, so I assume as the crow flies it would be much less. I do get WTOV channel 9 analog with only a pair of rabbit ears perfectly. Are they up to full power yet? I seem to remember you saying that they were using a "half butterfly" pattern that probably points more toward the Weirton/Stubenville area.

Clint
c_perrone is offline  
Old 04-29-2003, 08:51 AM
Member
 
bryan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wheeling WV
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
WTOV is a very strange situation, and we thought WNPA in all it's incarnations was the most moved around station.

When WTOV was first bought by Cox the new owners had the tower moved to Burgettstown where they started transmitting Analog. When it came time to apply for DTV they applied for the new location. WTOV has a DTV construction permit for the Burgettstown tower, however their STA is for the "old tower" in Steubenville. Subsequently they have applied to change their DTV construction permit for the old location and to move the analog back to the old site.

What we have today is the DTV transmitting from 100ft at 116Kw on an uncompleted new tower at the old location using half of a directional antenna array. The current pattern looks like half of a butterfly with the two lobes going North and South. So there is very little going to the East right now. I would say the bulk of their DTV signal is going to unpopulated areas and areas with very few people with STBs.

The analog is being transmitter from Burgettstown, but they have authorization to move to the old site. This is impossible because the new tower at the old site isn't finished and the old tower is being dismantled.

What I think will occur. The analog never gets moved, the DTV goes on the new tower and the analog gets eventually switched off. Cox has wasted enough money with WTOV by building 2 towers and moving stuff around. There is a rumor that the Burgettstown tower will be used for a WTOV DTV Booster.

If you haven't seen it yet I have an image of the area DTV stations and their Digital Contours on my website:

http://wvjw.info/daily-news/Digital-TV.GIF
bryan27 is offline  
Old 04-29-2003, 09:18 AM
Member
 
c_perrone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Butler PA
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bryan,

Very cool web page indeed! It looks like eventually I should be able to receive WTOV-DT and WTRF-DT with out any problems. Thanks for all of the great information. Do you have any way of including more channels in your coverage area maps? It would be neat to see the Youngstown and Johnstown stations. When all is said and done I should be able to get Youngstown/Johnstown and Pittsburgh.

Thanks for the update.

Clint
c_perrone is offline  
Old 04-29-2003, 07:10 PM
Member
 
bryan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wheeling WV
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have updated the maps to include anthing remotely receivable. The station maps are placed in several catagories.

Pittsburgh Metro:
KDKA, WTAE, WPXI, WQED, WNPA, WCWB, WPCB, WPGH

Pittsburgh East (Johnstown/Altoona):
WWCP, WJAC, WTAJ, WATM, WKBS, WPSX

Pittsburgh West (Wheeling/Steubenville) & Pittsburgh South (Morgantown/Oakland):
WTRF, WTOV, WOUC, & WNPB, WGPT

Pittsburgh North (Youngstown)
WFMJ, WKBN, WYTV, WNEO

Other Stations:
WQEX

I think those 21 stations are the only ones that anyone may receive somewhere in the Pittsburgh Area. Though no one in the area will be able to receive all 21 stations.



http://wvjw.info/daily-news/Digital-TV.GIF
bryan27 is offline  
Old 04-30-2003, 04:38 AM
Member
 
c_perrone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Butler PA
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bryan,

Those maps are great! Thanks so much for your work. Very much appreciated.

--Clint--
c_perrone is offline  
Old 04-30-2003, 12:21 PM
Newbie
 
steubtv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bryan,
You need to get your facts straight....WTOV has never broadcast from Burgettstown. They had a cp for the dtv for there, but there is NO tower at that location. There is a STA for the DTV signal to be broadcast from the Steubenville site and it is temp on the old tower and is only part way up.. (but it is the full antenna, not half)
The new tower has not even begun to go up (waiting on FCC approval).
There is a new solid state transmitter and a new antenna for the analog CH 9 signal also, but it too is waiting for the new tower to go up...the transmitter is installed (at Steubenville) and all the parts and pieces are ready once the tower begins to construct..
steubtv is offline  
Old 04-30-2003, 12:36 PM
 
TV21CHIEF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bryan27, the maps look interesting. What does the circle represent? Is it the 41 dbu noise limited contour, f50/50 or f90/10? The contour on the map our consultant filed with our app shows the 41 dbu contour almost touching the south shore of Lake Erie. Your's is a little bit less than that.
TV21CHIEF is offline  
Old 05-03-2003, 10:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
agtiny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cranberry Twp, PA
Posts: 836
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Armstrong HD... just got this hooked up yesterday. The 4 local HD channels look the same as OTA and HBO-HD looks no different from on DirecTV.

Pros:
One wire
WTAE reception is perfect of course
Non-HD channels display in 480p mode which allows me to use smart-stretch mode. My DTC-100 always displayed 1080i.

Cons:
DCT5100 has the worst guide ever... ads, pressing guide always shows channel 2 first instead of the current channel, doesn't display 2-hour blocks.
Going from 480p (normal channel) to 1080i confuses my TV and it will often display a wavy line pattern in a 4:3 frame until I power cycle the TV. This is VERY annoying.
Analog channels (<100 which is most of the frequently watched channels) look terrible compared to DirecTV.
No HDNet.
Cost is 67.40/mo (HD+Digital+HBO). On DirecTV this would be about 56.99 (TC Plus w/ locals + HBO + 2nd room). Our daughter will probably want the extra digital channels so we'll have to pay something like $5-7 for a 2nd Armstrong digital box for her.
HBO is activated on analog channel 5 on all TV's. This is very bad since our daughter's TV has no way to block this channel besides removing it from the programming but she's smart enough to get to it. I'm going to call and see if they can disable analog HBO.

My wife told the installer if they didn't have ESPN-HD by football season we were gone, but of course he said they don't tell him anything.

I haven't tested OTA reception here, but as you can see the cons seem to outway the pros at this point. Luckily there is no yearly contract or anything so we'll see how it goes.
agtiny is offline  
Old 05-04-2003, 07:36 AM
Member
 
bryan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wheeling WV
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Robert, I used the f90/10 contour as the Digital Service Contour. I felt it best represented where reliable reception should occur, instead of the 41dBu noise limited contour. The f90/10 contour is a little more 'conservative' and is a little smaller than the 41dBu noise limited contour.

Let us know when WFMJ goes on the air. It is the easiest analog to receive here in the Wheeling area from Youngstown, so hopefully the digital will be just as easy.
bryan27 is offline  
Old 05-05-2003, 08:15 AM
 
TV21CHIEF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
AGTINY: Armstrong is waiting for delivery of the new Motorola box with DVI. Maybe the interface will be better. I can't make any guarantees, but maybe if you ask nicely they will just give you a trap for analog HBO. Then you can install it before your splitter to block it everywhere or just put it on the line to your daughter's room and block it there.

Bryan27: I understand the F90/10 curve. Be advised that our CP is for 460 kw MAX DA. We had to pull in the north to keep the Canadians happy. eh? Also because of our situation here I have no choice but to go on the air at 800 feet with 200 kW. So initially, Wheeling may have some trouble. As I write this I am watching up a rain soaked driveway waiting for my transmitter to be delivered, so hopefully we can have bits on the air in early June.
TV21CHIEF is offline  
Old 05-05-2003, 10:00 AM
Advanced Member
 
debennett2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hopefully 21 can offer better color quality than that of channel 33. I won't watch OTA HD (and therefor not much HD at all) because of the quality from the station.

Dan Bennett

Learning something new every minute.
debennett2 is offline  
Old 05-12-2003, 03:42 PM
Member
 
bryan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wheeling WV
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Has anyone noticed a difference with WCWB? Last Thursday the signal here was really bad, but it has since improved. Today it is back to it's regular signal level in the middle of "Normal", but there is no picture, just a black screen I've checked the antenna, amps, FM block, everything is fine and the rest of the stations are preforming as they usually do.

On the FCC site I noticed WCWB applied for a new STA, but there was no data on what changes they made. Did they change something like their hight or power?

While over at the FCC I noticed that WPCB has filed for their license, looks like another low power license mistake like WTAE. I also noticed that WQEX filed for an STA. Is the station even on? The signal on ch.26 here is 0. Still no FCC action on WNPA's applications Good news for those east of Weirton. WTOV has also applied to alter their STA. They raised their power. My signal level is double what it once was (though it still isn't as high as WPGH, WPXI, & KDKA).

Atmospheric conditions were really cool this weekend. For nearly 2 days I was receiving excellent signal from ABC and Fox in Cleveland. It was nice to be able to see a Digital ABC station for a change. For a while I was also receiving WB from Columbus, they had all the DTV bells and whistles on in their signal; TV ratings, Show Title & Description, Digital Closed Captions, Multi-language. Why don't our stations do that! What was really weird was having 2 channels mapped to 53-1, at fist I thought WPGH was multicasting.

Robert, I hope construction at WFMJ is going well. I might be able to pick up WFMJ at 800' with 200Kw. I'm at 1280' and could pull in WQED when it was at 20Kw. I have a question for you. Can digital signals pass through analog signals? WKBN is also easy to receive, but in the FCC's excellent wisdom they put WKBN on ch.41. We have a huge 77Kw translator on ch.41. I just wonder if the STBs will pick out the digital transmission if there is an analog on the same channel?
bryan27 is offline  
Old 05-12-2003, 04:34 PM
Member
 
c_perrone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Butler PA
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bryan,

I lost WCWB last week also. Signal level dropped to around 28 or so. I thought it was all the new leaves on the trees. I just checked after I read your post and the signal is now up to about 45, but with no picutre. Did WTOV-DT just increase their signal today. I still don't get a blip here in Wexford.

--Clint--
c_perrone is offline  
Old 05-12-2003, 06:26 PM
Member
 
bryan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wheeling WV
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Clint, thanks that is about what WCWB is doing here about 50% and was doing last week. I wonder what they are doing? It is transmitting something, just not something recognizable for the STB. My STB doesn't do percentage or level numbers. The signal bar just has BAD, NORMAL, GOOD. But based on that I can sort of figure out the percent. 32% and below no lock (Bad), 33-65% Normal, 66-100% Good. KDKA has been hitting 100%!

WTOV went up to 180Kw, but maintains only half an antenna. I think these stations are buying their transmitters and antennas on the installment plan. Get a little money install a bit more. One thing that is nice it doesn't blank out now.
bryan27 is offline  
Old 05-12-2003, 06:48 PM
 
TV21CHIEF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bryan,
Construction is going well except for equipment delays that might push my air date back until later in June.

To answer your question, I think you'll have trouble with WKBN if that translator is close to you. Even with a good directional antenna it will probably be impossible to get WKBN.

P.S. Read the post from steubtv back on April 30. I know who this person is and you can trust them. They are indeed using a full antenna and not half. In fact I don't even know if you can use half an antenna and still have it tuned and generate any kind of usable pattern.
TV21CHIEF is offline  
Old 05-12-2003, 10:05 PM
Member
 
bryan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wheeling WV
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That's what I call the pattern WTOV is currently using. It is "half" of the pattern on their construction permit. Sorry for the confusion.

Steubtv, I'm just relaying information obtained from the FCC. BTW the new tower (next to the old one) has been approved (actually several weeks, if not months, ago). WTOV had a CP for analog at Burgettstown. It is on record at the FCC that WTOV did do testing at that location shortly after Cox bought WTOV. But that was all several years ago. It's time to look toward the future.
bryan27 is offline  
Old 05-13-2003, 08:43 AM
Newbie
 
steubtv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
bryan27
We (WTOV)just got our final approval for our tower two weeks ago, it took FAA and FCC approval. The tower is actually being delivered next monday and will begin construction soon after that...we also did not increase our dtv power and it is broadcasting from the same antenna, which is not half an antenna...We had a CP for Burgettstown, but no testing was ever done.. you are not relaying information from the FCC, but adding your own comments...if you want some facts feel free to call, but nowhere in the fcc did it ever say we were broadcasting from 1/2 of an antenna or that our new tower was half erected....
steubtv is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 06:51 PM
Member
 
c_perrone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Butler PA
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey all,

Anyone notice tonight that WQED-DT seems to be off the air. I have a signal strength of 0. Everything else seems fine except for WCWB which still seem to be off the air also.

--Clint--
c_perrone is offline  
Old 05-16-2003, 03:42 PM
Member
 
jsnides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cranberry Twp, Pa.
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
c_perrone,

Dido here in Cranberry. Might have to make a call, or did somebody already inquire? Also, I did a channel scan on my HiPix card and no signal for the WB, picked up WPCB, channel DT 50 out of Greensburgh, and WTAE was re-routed from 51 to 4..
jsnides is offline  
Old 05-16-2003, 03:53 PM
Member
 
JAMMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Ross Twp)
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Clint,

I had the same experience last night - no signal. And a few nights ago 42 had a strong signal reading but no programming.
BTW, I wet to radio shack and got a $1.98 UHF antenna (yeah on sale). Now QED comes in great, these signals are *very* directional and my yagi is fixed so the small $1.98 comes in handy. Once I move out of the townhouse I'll get that larger one you recommended.

Jim
JAMMAN is offline  
Old 05-19-2003, 05:58 AM
Newbie
 
Walt P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: pgh.,Pa.Penn Hills
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What happened to ch. 42 and 38? On my D6000 setup screen I get about 80% on both channels but neither will lock for more than a second or two.Seems like the transmitters are on but no programming. Anyone know whats going on?

Walt in Penn Hills
Walt P is offline  
Old 05-19-2003, 09:42 AM
Member
 
burghman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: South Park
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
42 has been off for days........and 38 seems to have gone down a few days now
burghman is offline  
Old 05-19-2003, 12:24 PM
Member
 
dickmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Same here re Ch 38 WQED yesterday. Has signal strength of circa 60 but not broadcasting picture for several days.

Regards, Dick
dickmc is offline  
Old 05-19-2003, 03:26 PM
Member
 
bryan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wheeling WV
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The stations are transmitting something. The data just isn't recognized by the STBs. WCWB's signal is rather constant. WQED's signal flucuates wildly.

I do know that WQED is scheduled for a power upgrade and equiptment upgrade for multicasting, so this could be what they are doing. Also another problem WQED has had is when they tried to run WQEX-DT. The equiptment of WQED would suffer when they tried to run 2 analog and 2 DTV stations at the same time. The result was that WQED had to purchase more equiptment. WQEX has applied for an STA, so they could be trying to get WQED, WQEX, WQED-DT, & WQEX-DT all to run at the same time.

WCWB appears to be transmitting nothing but non-video/audio data. I don't know what Sinclair's plan for WCWB-DT is, but the way the signal looks right now they may be trying to add a data channel to their SDTV signal.
bryan27 is offline  
Old 05-21-2003, 08:48 AM
Advanced Member
 
kaa1954's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Posts: 686
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I spoke with Paul Byers at WQED today. He confirmed that they are off the air. The new part they need is on the way & they should be back in business sometime this week.
kaa1954 is offline  
Old 05-23-2003, 04:18 AM
Newbie
 
Walt P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: pgh.,Pa.Penn Hills
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Channels 42 and 38 are back up and running.PBS 38 locks on 38 but lists itself as 80 in the D6000
guide, I don't understand that one. Ch 42 UPN now has a better than ever signal here in Penn Hills the max signal before was 50% now it's up to 70% that means the final Smallville will stay locked.

Walt
Walt P is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off