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post #8761 of 9598 Old 04-30-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by HarrisonS View Post

Yes, it is very large- 99 7/8 " long, but it comes folded up, with the main boom folded in the middle. Winegard gives the carton dimensions as only 6.25" x 6.25" x 59", so you can easily take it upstairs in the attic before unfolding it. Just make sure first that you have a suitably large place in the attic for the antenna once it is deployed.

Hmm, I am not sure if that will fit. That's HUGE! The attic isn't that big either. Have to crawl in it. Hmm, anything smaller? I also could not find this antenna model from any local retail stores (Costco, WalMart, Fry's Electronics, Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc.).

Any other models?
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post #8762 of 9598 Old 04-30-2012, 03:16 PM
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I use the Y5-7-13 antenna with no problems. It is only 60 inches long. Got mine at Solid Signal. You do need a transformer or balun to hook it up to cable.
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post #8763 of 9598 Old 04-30-2012, 03:24 PM
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I use the Y5-7-13 antenna with no problems. It is only 60 inches long. Got mine at Solid Signal. You do need a transformer or balun to hook it up to cable.

Cool. I will have to see if both antennae even fit in the small/tight attic. However, I can't find this one from any local retail stores.

Please kindly let me know of other smaller ones to try from local retail stores.

I think there are spare old baluns to use. Are there pictures of the two antenna connected/hooked up together closely?
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post #8764 of 9598 Old 05-01-2012, 04:04 PM
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My local FRYs doesn't carry many antennas, just the VHF/UHF combined antennas. You have to order online for the VHF only ones.

If you do use the ANT751 and Y5-7-13 antennas, you do not have to co-locate them. It's better to find a location in your attic that gives you the best UHF reception with the ANT751. Then find the location in your attic that gives you the best VHF reception with the Y5-7-13. Once found combine the two signals with a VHF/UHF combiner such as the UVSJ.
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post #8765 of 9598 Old 05-01-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by retiredengineer View Post

My local FRYs doesn't carry many antennas, just the VHF/UHF combined antennas. You have to order online for the VHF only ones.

If you do use the ANT751 and Y5-7-13 antennas, you do not have to co-locate them. It's better to find a location in your attic that gives you the best UHF reception with the ANT751. Then find the location in your attic that gives you the best VHF reception with the Y5-7-13. Once found combine the two signals with a VHF/UHF combiner such as the UVSJ.

Ah. The splitter happen in the attic, above the garage, that goes into the three rooms in the big house. We would have to redo the coax cables then which is complex. Also, we would need to find a good place for the VHF antenna. So far, the indoor kitchen seem the best spot but don't want to put that big antenna there. Obviously, we want to hide it. My folks don't want it on the roof. Hmmph.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...uctId=11000531 looks like Y5-7-13, but darn no local RadioShack stores have it.
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post #8766 of 9598 Old 05-01-2012, 05:52 PM
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RS has the ship-to-store option when you order online. Check with your local Radio Shack to see if they participate.
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post #8767 of 9598 Old 05-01-2012, 06:16 PM
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RS has the ship-to-store option when you order online. Check with your local Radio Shack to see if they participate.

That's the thing, we don't do online orders.
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post #8768 of 9598 Old 05-02-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Ah. The splitter happen in the attic, above the garage, that goes into the three rooms in the big house. We would have to redo the coax cables then which is complex. Also, we would need to find a good place for the VHF antenna. So far, the indoor kitchen seem the best spot but don't want to put that big antenna there. Obviously, we want to hide it. My folks don't want it on the roof. Hmmph.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...uctId=11000531 looks like Y5-7-13, but darn no local RadioShack stores have it.

Someone suggested two separate different antennae (http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/...V-antenna.html and http://www.condron.com/pics/fjc/antenna2.jpg -- I have an old DB2 antenna) to add to my RCA antenna. Would these really work for channels 11 and 13?
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post #8769 of 9598 Old 05-02-2012, 11:38 AM
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A rabbit ears antenna would work better for channels 11 and 13, than the DB2 since it is a UHF only antenna.
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post #8770 of 9598 Old 05-02-2012, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by retiredengineer View Post

A rabbit ears antenna would work better for channels 11 and 13, than the DB2 since it is a UHF only antenna.

Really? I thought those rabbit ears antennae were too weak. So I can use a basic/simple rabbit ear in the attic to get those missing channels? I have not tried the attic. I did try outside on the high hills and indoor on the kitchen, but they did not do well (unstable or no signal locks). I will try again in the attic then without RCA. I have other non-rabbit ears indoor antennae in the old house. If one works well, I can combine both RCA and the indoor weaker one together.
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post #8771 of 9598 Old 05-02-2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by zarg7883 View Post

MeTV Hollywood announcement.
http://www.metvnetwork.com/files/KVM..._ReleaseV4.pdf

Wonder if HSN offered them more money to move to 20-1? HSN was on 20-2 before. No signs of METV on any of the 20 subchannels(RF50).
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post #8772 of 9598 Old 05-02-2012, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Updates! ... Old portable CRT TV + Zeinth DTT900 DTV converter box:

57-83 channels found (did two scans): KCBS2, KNBC4, KTLA5, KABC7, KCAL9, KSCI18, 22, KCET28, ION30, 31, 34, 46, 52, 56, 57, KLCS58 (soso), 62, and 63.

Portable DTV (ATSC; Digital Prism):
88 channels found (wow): KCBS2, KNBC4, KTLA5, KABC7, KCAL9, 22, 28, ION30, 31, 34, 46, 52, 56, 57 (soso), 58, and 62.

Note that I gave the channel the station code/ID names for the ones we care for.

As you can see both of them are missing the ones I care for: KTTV11 (I watch FOX's shows a lot and sports sometimes), KCOP13 (I used to watch it for its Star Trek, but don't care any more), and KOCE50 (rarely though)...

I played more tonight with the same CRT TV, Zeinth converter box, and antenna setup (did not touch it). The weather was getting dark, cooler, and cloudy outside. I was curious if that made things different.

Here is the channels I noticed from about 7:45 PM PDT to about 8:35 PM PDT: KCBS2 (sometimes stable and sometimes unstable), KNBC4 (sometimes stable and unstable), KTLA5, KABC7, KCAL9, KSCI18, 22, KCET28, ION30, 31, 34, 40 (stable and unstable), 46, 52, 54, 56, KLCS58 (stable and unstable), 62, and 63. I noticed the problematic channels can be stable for a few minutes and then unstable for a few minutes. Basically, they come and go. KTTV11 and KCOP13 never showed up. Rescanning twice showed different results: 65 channels and 76 channels.

Are the mentioned antennae, including rabbit ears, still valid to try?
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post #8773 of 9598 Old 05-03-2012, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

I played more tonight with the same CRT TV, Zeinth converter box, and antenna setup (did not touch it). The weather was getting dark, cooler, and cloudy outside. I was curious if that made things different.

Here is the channels I noticed from about 7:45 PM PDT to about 8:35 PM PDT: KCBS2 (sometimes stable and sometimes unstable), KNBC4 (sometimes stable and unstable), KTLA5, KABC7, KCAL9, KSCI18, 22, KCET28, ION30, 31, 34, 40 (stable and unstable), 46, 52, 54, 56, KLCS58 (stable and unstable), 62, and 63. I noticed the problematic channels can be stable for a few minutes and then unstable for a few minutes. Basically, they come and go. KTTV11 and KCOP13 never showed up. Rescanning twice showed different results: 65 channels and 76 channels.

Are the mentioned antennae, including rabbit ears, still valid to try?

Yes, the weather does make a difference. In my experience, some stations are favored by the cool cloudy weather, while others are favored by warm, sunny weather. For example, at my location, KFLA is strongly favored by the cool, cloudy weather and puts in a solid signal, but then disappears completely when it is warm and sunny. On the other hand, the San Diego stations often come in very well during the summer, when it is warm and sunny with an inversion layer. Otherwise, they disappear. At your location, however, the specifics will probably be different, but you will see differences.

If you are in a difficult location, rabbit ears would probably be a waste of time. If the YA-1713 is just too big, probably your best bet might be something like the Y5-7-13. Probably most or all UHF/VHF combo antennas would be inadequate on VHF. It would be best to stick with a specialized VHF hi-band antenna.

BTW, insects have antennae - we use antennas!
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post #8774 of 9598 Old 05-03-2012, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HarrisonS View Post

Yes, the weather does make a difference. In my experience, some stations are favored by the cool cloudy weather, while others are favored by warm, sunny weather. For example, at my location, KFLA is strongly favored by the cool, cloudy weather and puts in a solid signal, but then disappears completely when it is warm and sunny. On the other hand, the San Diego stations often come in very well during the summer, when it is warm and sunny with an inversion layer. Otherwise, they disappear. At your location, however, the specifics will probably be different, but you will see differences.

If you are in a difficult location, rabbit ears would probably be a waste of time. If the YA-1713 is just too big, probably your best bet might be something like the Y5-7-13. Probably most or all UHF/VHF combo antennas would be inadequate on VHF. It would be best to stick with a specialized VHF hi-band antenna.

BTW, insects have antennae - we use antennas!

I wonder how heat wave, rain (didn't get a chance to try it with the recent heavy rain), etc. will do. Will these two antennae help for stabilize KCBS, KNBC4, etc. too that I saw last night or are they only for good for channels 5 (KTLA) to 13 (KCOP)?

According to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antennae and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antennas , they are both valid. I wished I, as an ant, could get TV feeds too. Maybe better than the ones I have in the houses! [grin]
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post #8775 of 9598 Old 05-04-2012, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by oc-rdx View Post

Wonder if HSN offered them more money to move to 20-1? HSN was on 20-2 before. No signs of METV on any of the 20 subchannels(RF50).

I think the MeTV programming from KVME may just be a dedicated feed to the MSOs such as DIRECTV and dish. Not for OTA.

For instance, DIRECTV has the MeTV programs on their satellite feed of local channel 20, now labeled "KVME" (formally was "KBBC" in the guide for many years). '
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post #8776 of 9598 Old 05-04-2012, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

I wonder how heat wave, rain (didn't get a chance to try it with the recent heavy rain), etc. will do. Will these two antennae help for stabilize KCBS, KNBC4, etc. too that I saw last night or are they only for good for channels 5 (KTLA) to 13 (KCOP)? ...

Varying weather conditions will have an effect on the reception of these stations, but it would be difficult to predict beforehand what those effects might be at your location. I can't see rain as actually helping, but overcast may either help or hinder in the reception of some stations, while warm but calm weather may help with other stations.

Rain is generally somewhat detrimental to reception, but worst of all is a strong Santa Ana condition.

At my location, KCBS 2, KNBC 4 and KCOP 13 are always rock stable, as is KTTV 11 (although I did one have some breakup problems with KCBS), but KTLA 5, although very strong, breaks up badly, probably due to multipath. This problem abruptly started about a year and a half ago, and I suspect that they must have tampered at that time with their radiation pattern. When I get some time, I intend to try a more directional UHF antenna.
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post #8777 of 9598 Old 05-07-2012, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by HarrisonS View Post

... At my location, KCBS 2, KNBC 4 and KCOP 13 are always rock stable, as is KTTV 11 (although I did one have some breakup problems with KCBS), but KTLA 5, although very strong, breaks up badly, probably due to multipath. This problem abruptly started about a year and a half ago, and I suspect that they must have tampered at that time with their radiation pattern. When I get some time, I intend to try a more directional UHF antenna.

Same problem here with severe pixelation for KTLA, but (thankfully) on only one TV's tuner. A new inexpensive Sceptre 32" LCD my brother purchased. All other channels on it are fine. Its (and again thankfully) inconsequential for him since he always watches TV on it through a DIRECTV DVR with an AM21 OTA tuner which doesn't experience the problem with KTLA's signal.

But still curious nevertheless why no other DTV tuner in the home has this problem with just KTLA.
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post #8778 of 9598 Old 05-07-2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by HoTatII View Post

Same problem here with severe pixelation for KTLA, but (thankfully) on only one TV's tuner. A new inexpensive Sceptre 32" LCD my brother purchased. All other channels on it are fine. Its (and again thankfully) inconsequential for him since he always watches TV on it through a DIRECTV DVR with an AM21 OTA tuner which doesn't experience the problem with KTLA's signal.

But still curious nevertheless why no other DTV tuner in the home has this problem with just KTLA.

I noticed my computers' old HDTV tuner cards, from 2005, can't lock onto KTLA 5.x but converter boxes, DTV Pal DVR, etc. can! Is KTLA doing something weird/odd with its transmitter lately? It is a good thing I don't have anything to watch on it until fall/autumn until Arrrow series start (used to watch Smallville on it).
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post #8779 of 9598 Old 05-07-2012, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by HoTatII View Post

Same problem here with severe pixelation for KTLA, but (thankfully) on only one TV's tuner.....
But still curious nevertheless why no other DTV tuner in the home has this problem with just KTLA.

Typically, if only one TV has a problem with a TV station, that TV has problems with multipath. TVs with the latest generation adaptive equalizers do better on multipath than the older generations which the Spectre probably has. A more directional UHF antenna would help in this case as suggested by HarrisonS.
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post #8780 of 9598 Old 05-07-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by retiredengineer View Post

Typically, if only one TV has a problem with a TV station, that TV has problems with multipath. TVs with the latest generation adaptive equalizers do better on multipath than the older generations which the Spectre probably has. A more directional UHF antenna would help in this case as suggested by HarrisonS.

Wow ... thought I was well into directional overkill already here in a primary signal coverage area of South L.A. with a Winegard HD7697P VHF-hi/UHF high gain beam antenna pointed squarely at Mt. Wilson.
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post #8781 of 9598 Old 05-07-2012, 05:04 PM
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The HD7697P has a beamwidth of about 48 degrees at KTLAs frequency which is pretty good compared to the beamwidth of a large loop antenna (Radio Shack) which is 80 degrees. The reception pattern of the Hd7697P seems to be squinted to the right about 10 degrees (from their data sheet) so it may help your reception to turn your antenna 10 degrees to the left.
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post #8782 of 9598 Old 05-07-2012, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoTatII View Post

...Its (and again thankfully) inconsequential for him since he always watches TV on it through a DIRECTV DVR with an AM21 OTA tuner which doesn't experience the problem with KTLA's signal...

Dunno about him, but I experience poorer signal reception from the AM21 than I do when I connect my Panny 42" Plasma directly to the OTA antenna.

Luckily, the stations I really care about come in strong enough for the AM21, including KVCR-DT PBS Inland Empire Chs 24.1 et seq. (to Valley Village in the East SFV).

Still confused about why the AM21 will NOT receive 5.3 and the 8.x's; on the DirecTV forum here: it is something about how DirecTV has to program something into the data feed of their satellites and they have limited capacity to do so.

Speaking of the 8.x's I recently attempted to receive them on the Panny directly OTA and NOTHING! I went to their website and NOTHING: Are they off the air?
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post #8783 of 9598 Old 05-07-2012, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by retiredengineer View Post

Typically, if only one TV has a problem with a TV station, that TV has problems with multipath. TVs with the latest generation adaptive equalizers do better on multipath than the older generations which the Spectre probably has. A more directional UHF antenna would help in this case as suggested by HarrisonS.

Isn't multipath from multiple transmitters not from the same directions? Or can they be from the direction?
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post #8784 of 9598 Old 05-07-2012, 09:25 PM
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Isn't multipath from multiple transmitters not from the same directions? Or can they be from the direction?

I think what you are asking is if the transmit antennas are all on Mt. Wilson then their respective multipath signals should all follow the same path to your locations. If so shouldn't the interference be equal?

I'm guessing they do follow the same paths but the interference may not be equal. The relative phases between the two signals (LOS and Multipath) will vary with transmit frequency. Out-of-phase is the worse case maybe causing pixelation and breakup. A more directional antenna helps in this case because the antenna will respond less to the multipath signal while still receiving the direct signal.
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post #8785 of 9598 Old 05-07-2012, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by retiredengineer View Post

I think what you are asking is if the transmit antennas are all on Mt. Wilson then their respective multipath signals should all follow the same path to your locations. If so shouldn't the interference be equal?

I'm guessing they do follow the same paths but the interference may not be equal. The relative phases between the two signals (LOS and Multipath) will vary with transmit frequency. Out-of-phase is the worse case maybe causing pixelation and breakup. A more directional antenna helps in this case because the antenna will respond less to the multipath signal while still receiving the direct signal.

Ah, thanks for the explaination. That makes sense now.
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post #8786 of 9598 Old 05-08-2012, 03:46 AM
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Still confused about why the AM21 will NOT receive 5.3 and the 8.x's;

D* OTA tuners will only receive those channels and subchannels that have been loaded into their data guides. Evidently, they quit caring a year or so ago and don't seem interested in adding these subchannels to their database. Here in St Louis, subchannels 2.2, 30.2, 30.3, & 46.2 are all unavailable on my HR20 and my HR21/AM21 setups.
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post #8787 of 9598 Old 05-09-2012, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelLAX View Post

... Still confused about why the AM21 will NOT receive 5.3 and the 8.x's; on the DirecTV forum here: it is something about how DirecTV has to program something into the data feed of their satellites and they have limited capacity to do so.

For 5-3 (This TV), as ProjectSHO89 said, DIRECTV will not add it to their national OTA database now as a matter of policy as they feel the base is becoming too large already to make for efficient cycling through the satellite stream which must be repeated constantly.

However, and I know maybe not much of a consolation, their new HR34 HMC with an AM21 actually does OTA scanning and will include 5-3, 8.X along with any others outside the database found off-air in the channel guide. The problem is there is no guide data listed for them. Just a continuous cell titled "Regular Schedule."

As for "8.x," (KFLA) again as per a policy beginning last year some time I think, DIRECTV decided to remove all low powered ("-LD" and "-CD" suffixed) stations from the database to aid in reducing its size and to eliminate those station's problematic reception problems triggering customer complaints and unneeded service truck rolls on the mistaken customer belief that DIRECTV's equipment is at fault.
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post #8788 of 9598 Old 05-09-2012, 08:32 AM
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Thank you for that information in response to my questions.

I just discovered yesterday that the HR34 has only SPDIF digital audio output connector and not Toslink; although I could get an adapter from monolink.com I suppose...

I am interested in the HR34, but a new receiver would require a new 2 year commitment, which honestly I am not willing to do at this time. My contract has expired and at some point I might consider an OTA w/DVR + Netflix + AppleTV option (not being a big TV sports fan).
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post #8789 of 9598 Old 05-09-2012, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelLAX View Post

Thank you for that information in response to my questions.

I just discovered yesterday that the HR34 has only SPDIF digital audio output connector and not Toslink; although I could get an adapter from monolink.com I suppose...

I am interested in the HR34, but a new receiver would require a new 2 year commitment, which honestly I am not willing to do at this time. My contract has expired and at some point I might consider an OTA w/DVR + Netflix + AppleTV option (not being a big TV sports fan).

Yeah ... had one installed last Friday with new two year commitment of course, but you may want to wait awhile anyhow as the HR34 is still rather early in its software development phase so its behavior is somewhat quirky right now.

It can be stable for hours on end, then all of a sudden take off do something totally weird on you.
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post #8790 of 9598 Old 05-09-2012, 06:02 PM
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I don't know if this has been reported here (maybe I missed it), but MeTV is now being simulcast on Channel 20 in addition to Channel 56-3.

The significance is that now ALL Los Angeles DirecTV subscribers can receive it without an OTA antenna...
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