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Local HDTV Info and Reception > Los Angeles, CA - OTA
phildaant's Avatar phildaant 10:53 AM 07-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by newz54 View Post
Anyone having problems with PBS SoCal Channel 50 on a Dish Receiver? All of a sudden the OTA signal has dropped to 50 instead of the normal 98. All of my other OTA channel are still showing 98 and better. I still get strong signals from Channel 50 on my TV receiver so I have to think its something weird in the signal. Thought the ota module in my dish vip622 might be going bad....but only affect one channel?


Any ideas?
I can't help you on Dish part, but my OTA appears to be fine for KOCE50. Isn't there another forum thread for Dish L.A. people?

bob1xxx's Avatar bob1xxx 11:42 PM 07-13-2014
Yes I live in San Gabriel ca and I have been noticing a lot of drop out on all 50's channels in the evening last three weeks the antiques road show was almost unwatchable and it happens at random during the day but it been worst in the evenings. Which is weird because my RCA ANT751 I got at Walmart over 5 years ago mounted outside pointed directly at Mt Wilson (direct line of site) works great on every other channel except 50's (50.01, 50.02 etc). Its a recent issue I wonder since their ran my LAUSD reducing power due to fund issues or transmitter maintance? Don't know but I too are having issues with the 50's here in 91775 zip code.
bob1xxx's Avatar bob1xxx 12:03 AM 07-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by iRoNeTiK View Post
I just recently cut the cord with Cox cable and picked up a Monoprice 7967 Antenna (http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2) and hooked it up to my Tivo Premier. I have it mounted inside, pointing north (toward the towers).

It seems to pick up all the major networks just fine except ABC and KCAL even though FCC, TVfool and antenna web say this station tower is 40 miles away (I'm in Irvine), just like NBC, CBS etc (they must be all on the same mountain). I have tried the antenna amped and without the amp, same result. Any ideas? I'm about to return this antenna and go for a Amazon Basics Extreme or Mohu Leaf 50 antenna and see how that fairs but rather not I can't mount it outside or on the roof, I wouldn't want to anyways.

Thanks!
Well have had great results with RCA ANT751 I got mine at Fry's in industry ca. and Walmart sells it online too . Got the RCA mounted on 20 ft pole pointed with direct line of site of Mt.Wilson and it works great . I have zero problems bring in abc 7 , cbs 2, kcal 9, fox 11 or NBC 4. If you can try to get your antenna on the roof (like chimney or vent pipe mount) on a pole its amazing how much better the reception is. This Rca ANT751 is nice a compact but pulls in the signal very well I have had excellant luck with mine. BTW I tried a antenna amp with the RCA ANT751 I get better results without the amp.
phildaant's Avatar phildaant 12:09 AM 07-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob1xxx View Post
Well have had great results with RCA ANT751 I got mine at Fry's in industry ca. and Walmart sells it online too . Got the RCA mounted on 20 ft pole pointed with direct line of site of Mt.Wilson and it works great . I have zero problems bring in abc 7 , cbs 2, kcal 9, fox 11 or NBC 4. If you can try to get your antenna on the roof (like chimney or vent pipe mount) on a pole its amazing how much better the reception is. This Rca ANT751 is nice a compact but pulls in the signal very well I have had excellant luck with mine. BTW I tried a antenna amp with the RCA ANT751 I get better results without the amp.
Bob1xxx: I also have a RCA ANT751. I use it indoor though.
nyctveng's Avatar nyctveng 08:25 AM 07-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sitcomics View Post
Very interesting.   I wonder if TV ratings for METV, Antenna and Cozi are much better than Live Well's.  Would that inspire Disney to make their own Classic TV station featuring old Disney movies and TV shows?  Or maybe Retro TV could move their signal here...  I'd certainly watch those options more than I ever watched Livewell.
The 3 retro channels have much lower programming cost than Live Well and their ratings probably are better. Live Well has a lot of original content which is costly to produce.
HarrisonS's Avatar HarrisonS 08:59 AM 07-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post
I can't help you on Dish part, but my OTA appears to be fine for KOCE50. Isn't there another forum thread for Dish L.A. people?
Yes, I too have had no problems at all with KOCE 50. But the description of the problem sounds all too familiar. For example, KCET 28, which is not line-of-sight here, has sometimes been dropping out suddenly for very short periods during prime time hours and then coming back. Clearly, this is a propagation issue. KCET, like KLCS and KTBN is poorly situated on Mt. Wilson, and cannot get out well to the west.

Judging from the symptoms, I suspect that Dish Network's receiver (wherever it is) may not have unobstructed visibility to the KOCE transmitter. But you are right, issues with Dish Network (or DirectTV or TWC for that matter) really aren't relevant in this thread.
Ennui's Avatar Ennui 09:25 AM 07-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonS View Post
Yes, I too have had no problems at all with KOCE 50. But the description of the problem sounds all too familiar. For example, KCET 28, which is not line-of-sight here, has sometimes been dropping out suddenly for very short periods during prime time hours and then coming back. Clearly, this is a propagation issue. KCET, like KLCS and KTBN is poorly situated on Mt. Wilson, and cannot get out well to the west.

Judging from the symptoms, I suspect that Dish Network's receiver (wherever it is) may not have unobstructed visibility to the KOCE transmitter. But you are right, issues with Dish Network (or DirectTV or TWC for that matter) really aren't relevant in this thread.


50.1 works fine here OTA.
bob1xxx's Avatar bob1xxx 12:33 AM 07-15-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post
Bob1xxx: I also have a RCA ANT751. I use it indoor though.

Ok well if your using the RCA ant751 now any of the flat antennas are a complete waste of time and cash. I bought and returned three for my dads room and they were all crap, loads of promise poor to useless results. I finally just got splitter for my outdoor Rca ant 751 and ran a line to his to his room. Honestly I would try your Rca ant751 without the amp if you haven't. I found all the amp did was generate or amplify signal noise and causing more drop out then help. At least that been my experience.
tenthplanet's Avatar tenthplanet 04:55 AM 07-15-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonS View Post
Yes, I too have had no problems at all with KOCE 50. But the description of the problem sounds all too familiar. For example, KCET 28, which is not line-of-sight here, has sometimes been dropping out suddenly for very short periods during prime time hours and then coming back. Clearly, this is a propagation issue. KCET, like KLCS and KTBN is poorly situated on Mt. Wilson, and cannot get out well to the west.

Judging from the symptoms, I suspect that Dish Network's receiver (wherever it is) may not have unobstructed visibility to the KOCE transmitter. But you are right, issues with Dish Network (or DirectTV or TWC for that matter) really aren't relevant in this thread.
Channel 56 KDOC was coming in weird the other night, doing that weird irregular multi-path cycle that I'm used to seeing with Channel 4. I haven't seen KDOC do that before at one in the morning. I know it wasn't police helicopters which can wreck havoc on KCET's signal. Mother Nature messing with propogation again.....
Dante_101's Avatar Dante_101 03:56 PM 07-15-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarg7883 View Post
KFLA made some changes.
8.1 has FilmOn.
8.3 has Retro TV now.
8.4 has BizTV.
KFLA keeps doing this, and it takes forever for my Tivo to recognize the change in the channel lineups (which means I can't rely on my automatic season passes for RetroTV for the time being).

I see RetroTV has added "Mystery Science Theater 3000" to its lineup (which I didn't know about), along with Doctor Who coming this August.

So what's missing? Looks like they dropped TuffTV -- the channel with all the MMA bouts. Also looks like TuffTV is resorting to "crowd funding" to raise $50,000... Hmmm...
Harry Kerry's Avatar Harry Kerry 08:06 PM 07-16-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonS View Post
Yes, I too have had no problems at all with KOCE 50. But the description of the problem sounds all too familiar. For example, KCET 28, which is not line-of-sight here, has sometimes been dropping out suddenly for very short periods during prime time hours and then coming back. Clearly, this is a propagation issue. KCET, like KLCS and KTBN is poorly situated on Mt. Wilson, and cannot get out well to the west.

Judging from the symptoms, I suspect that Dish Network's receiver (wherever it is) may not have unobstructed visibility to the KOCE transmitter. But you are right, issues with Dish Network (or DirectTV or TWC for that matter) really aren't relevant in this thread.
Perhaps a misunderstanding: He is referring a true OTA signal that is received by an OTA antenna that is cabled into the the Dish box or the Dish USB OTA tuners for the Hoppers. The OTA is then is then selected by either direct tuning or selection of the OTA that is automatically integrated with the EPG along with sat LIL's.

So, the relevance is that he is NOT referring to the local into local (the locals channels fed directly from the TV station; then sent via fiber to Spokan WA for uplink to the satellite LA DMA spotbeam; then downlinked from the sat at home), he is referring to a true OTA from his terrestrial antenna into the Dish box for viewing.

Yes, while I have had problems in the past with KOCE 50 with dropouts etc., I've not had any for weeks. However, KOCE is without a doubt the most poor quality HD pq OTA by far with frequent breakup on fast movement along with general blurring and softness of PQ campared with other LA OTA's (except for, perhaps, KVCR 24). For KOCE being the new flagship, its pq is abomniable. Either their engineer is incompetent or KOCE has still not spent any money upgrading their historically below mediocre pq from back in the SD days. However, 50 KOCE is always my bane of all OTA's for its signal is lost on occasion while even KLCS is still accessible. It seems problems are just natural to KOCE 50.

The problems I've experienced with KOCE 50 are the same with TiVO OTA , Dish OTA, or direct HDTV viewing, although sometimes the direct HDTV may not drop the signal as often.
Harry Kerry's Avatar Harry Kerry 08:09 PM 07-16-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob1xxx View Post
Yes I live in San Gabriel ca and I have been noticing a lot of drop out on all 50's channels in the evening last three weeks the antiques road show was almost unwatchable and it happens at random during the day but it been worst in the evenings. Which is weird because my RCA ANT751 I got at Walmart over 5 years ago mounted outside pointed directly at Mt Wilson (direct line of site) works great on every other channel except 50's (50.01, 50.02 etc). Its a recent issue I wonder since their ran my LAUSD reducing power due to fund issues or transmitter maintance? Don't know but I too are having issues with the 50's here in 91775 zip code.
I think you are confusing KOCE 50 with KLCS 58:

LAUSD owns KLCS 58, not KOCE 50.
phildaant's Avatar phildaant 08:26 PM 07-16-2014
If it is KLCS 58, don't they still have weak signal strengths?
bob1xxx's Avatar bob1xxx 01:57 AM 07-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Kerry View Post
I think you are confusing KOCE 50 with KLCS 58:

LAUSD owns KLCS 58, not KOCE 50.

Yes my mistake I am getting drop out on the koce 50
bob1xxx's Avatar bob1xxx 02:13 AM 07-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante_101 View Post
KFLA keeps doing this, and it takes forever for my Tivo to recognize the change in the channel lineups (which means I can't rely on my automatic season passes for RetroTV for the time being).

I see RetroTV has added "Mystery Science Theater 3000" to its lineup (which I didn't know about), along with Doctor Who coming this August.

So what's missing? Looks like they dropped TuffTV -- the channel with all the MMA bouts. Also looks like TuffTV is resorting to "crowd funding" to raise $50,000... Hmmm...
Honestly I gave up 8.1 thur ??? awhile back for tivo recording About every other week retro tv, tuff tv , the infomercial and i think spanish? change channel slots and KFLA will update the tivo guide weeks later. KFLA cannot get tivo guide info right (especially after day light saving) show eastern stander time guide so its tivo guide 3 hours off what their showing PST in California LoL . I was even e mailing the KFLA tech director Roy Mayhew I think is name was and honestly I think KFLA 8.1 , 8.2 , etc.... are some rich mans toy and tax right off and they couldn't careless about their stations viewers as long as the tax right offs keep rolling in.
HarrisonS's Avatar HarrisonS 09:46 AM 07-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Kerry View Post
Perhaps a misunderstanding: He is referring a true OTA signal that is received by an OTA antenna that is cabled into the the Dish box or the Dish USB OTA tuners for the Hoppers. The OTA is then is then selected by either direct tuning or selection of the OTA that is automatically integrated with the EPG along with sat LIL's.

So, the relevance is that he is NOT referring to the local into local (the locals channels fed directly from the TV station; then sent via fiber to Spokan WA for uplink to the satellite LA DMA spotbeam; then downlinked from the sat at home), he is referring to a true OTA from his terrestrial antenna into the Dish box for viewing.

Yes, while I have had problems in the past with KOCE 50 with dropouts etc., I've not had any for weeks. However, KOCE is without a doubt the most poor quality HD pq OTA by far with frequent breakup on fast movement along with general blurring and softness of PQ campared with other LA OTA's (except for, perhaps, KVCR 24). For KOCE being the new flagship, its pq is abomniable. Either their engineer is incompetent or KOCE has still not spent any money upgrading their historically below mediocre pq from back in the SD days. However, 50 KOCE is always my bane of all OTA's for its signal is lost on occasion while even KLCS is still accessible. It seems problems are just natural to KOCE 50.

The problems I've experienced with KOCE 50 are the same with TiVO OTA , Dish OTA, or direct HDTV viewing, although sometimes the direct HDTV may not drop the signal as often.

Thanks for the clarification. Since satellite providers pick up local channels and relay them via satellite to their customers, I naturally assumed that he was merely describing the condition of KOCE's signal, as picked up by Dish Network.

You are right about the poor quality of KOCE's signal. It has by far the worst pixellation problem of any station I have seen. This, plus the issue of occasionally leaving the station ID on for very long periods, suggest that their engineering staff is either apathetic, incompetent or just absent altogether.
HarrisonS's Avatar HarrisonS 10:05 AM 07-18-2014
I have been seeing KSKJ on channel 45 for years. It was always a low power station with independent programming. However, it has recently become a repeater for KSCI 18. As such, it is simply carrying all of the KSCI sub channels, all that is, except 18.11 and 18.12. KSKJ may still be running at low power. It is coming in here at about 40% while KSCI is about 75%. Reception of KSKJ is still very solid here, however.
lotto_pi's Avatar lotto_pi 09:49 AM 08-14-2014
Grit and Escape channels are supposedly beginning regular broadcasting at noon on August 18. Look for them as subchannels of KMEX channel 34 (real channel 34). Report I saw says they're on the air showing promos in San Francisco already.
___
Neil
Dante_101's Avatar Dante_101 12:09 PM 08-14-2014
Here's a link for those like me (who have no idea what the hell Grit or Escape are):

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/new...hannels/130235
phildaant's Avatar phildaant 12:26 PM 08-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante_101 View Post
Here's a link for those like me (who have no idea what the hell Grit or Escape are):

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/new...hannels/130235
Thanks. And this is in English on KMEX? Interesting.
Dante_101's Avatar Dante_101 12:54 PM 08-14-2014
I would assume they're in English. Rabbit Ears shows these channels are actually going to be sub channels of spanish language channel 46 (not 34) alongside Get TV (which is in English, and which has a good selection of older classic movies). It lists 46.3 for Escape and 46.4 for Grit.

Despite Get TV also being in English, they would most surely mention in the article if these new channels were to air foreign-language programming, as that would be a main component.

But speaking of KMEX-34, Rabbit Ears shows the Bounce channel as coming to 34.2 "soon." As the article I linked to mentioned, these new channels are put out by the same guy behind Bounce. I'm guessing that means Bounce will be leaving its current home at 13.2? That doesn't matter much, but makes me wonder if the move means something new is coming to 13.2 soon...
oc-rdx's Avatar oc-rdx 10:53 PM 08-18-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotto_pi View Post
Grit and Escape channels are supposedly beginning regular broadcasting at noon on August 18. Look for them as subchannels of KMEX channel 34 (real channel 34). Report I saw says they're on the air showing promos in San Francisco already.
___
Neil
They're on now, 46.3 & 46.4(RF29)
Juan2watch's Avatar Juan2watch 11:27 PM 08-18-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by oc-rdx View Post
They're on now, 46.3 & 46.4(RF29)
Thanks. Look good except picture is stretched.
HarrisonS's Avatar HarrisonS 10:23 AM 08-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan2watch View Post
Thanks. Look good except picture is stretched.
Good old 'Stretch O' Vision'! Well at least now there are encouraging signs that there is a slow trend away from it. In addition to the recent changeover on Movies! on 13.3, I am seeing here and there more unstretched SD subchannels. Not only have KCET and KOCE made the move on most SD broadcasts, but I am seeing more other instances here and there; even KLCS is often (but not always) airing unstretched material on 58.4. For me, at least, it has reached a tipping point, so that I usually won't even bother to change the setting on my set to "unstretch" a picture. Instead, I just change channels!
phildaant's Avatar phildaant 11:23 AM 08-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonS View Post
Good old 'Stretch O' Vision'! Well at least now there are encouraging signs that there is a slow trend away from it. In addition to the recent changeover on Movies! on 13.3, I am seeing here and there more unstretched SD subchannels. Not only have KCET and KOCE made the move on most SD broadcasts, but I am seeing more other instances here and there; even KLCS is often (but not always) airing unstretched material on 58.4. For me, at least, it has reached a tipping point, so that I usually won't even bother to change the setting on my set to "unstretch" a picture. Instead, I just change channels!
Viewers should let the stations know about these annoying stretch pictures!
HoTatII's Avatar HoTatII 04:21 AM 08-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonS View Post
Good old 'Stretch O' Vision'! Well at least now there are encouraging signs that there is a slow trend away from it. In addition to the recent changeover on Movies! on 13.3, I am seeing here and there more unstretched SD subchannels. Not only have KCET and KOCE made the move on most SD broadcasts, but I am seeing more other instances here and there; even KLCS is often (but not always) airing unstretched material on 58.4. For me, at least, it has reached a tipping point, so that I usually won't even bother to change the setting on my set to "unstretch" a picture. Instead, I just change channels!
Although in the case of these two new sub-channels at present, whenever they show a stretched picture there's really no "normal" TV format setting I'm aware of that can un-stretch them even if you wanted to take the time to.

As they're stretched 4:3 images to fill the inside of a 16:9 letter-box.

You need a way to zoom in on the picture and then compress it to a standard 4:3 pillar-box display. Don't know of any TV that can do both those at the same time.
HarrisonS's Avatar HarrisonS 07:57 AM 08-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post
Viewers should let the stations know about these annoying stretch pictures!
An excellent suggestion. Maybe if they get enough input, they might even get motivated to speed up the changeover process a bit - hopefully.
HarrisonS's Avatar HarrisonS 08:27 AM 08-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoTatII View Post
Although in the case of these two new sub-channels at present, whenever they show a stretched picture there's really no "normal" TV format setting I'm aware of that can un-stretch them even if you wanted to take the time to.

As they're stretched 4:3 images to fill the inside of a 16:9 letter-box.

You need a way to zoom in on the picture and then compress it to a standard 4:3 pillar-box display. Don't know of any TV that can do both those at the same time.
Actually, the "Zoom" setting on my Pioneer Elite does do this. But I think it looks better in the "4:3" setting, despite the sidebars and a smaller picture. Also note that 4:3 material will already appear that way on unstretched SD like COZI, and presumably Movies!, if they were to show a very old classic filmed in 4:3.

What really bugs me, however, is the widespread practice of cropping widescreen movies, etc., to a 4:3 ratio, for example, This TV on 5.3, (and 69.3 if you can get San Diego). Those people are living in the last century!
HoTatII's Avatar HoTatII 02:59 PM 08-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonS View Post
Actually, the "Zoom" setting on my Pioneer Elite does do this. ...
Interesting;

You mean the Elite can actually zoom in on a 16:9 SD letter-box image and then squish it horizontally back to 4:3 at the same time?

How do you tell the Elite not to squish back to 4:3 if you only want to zoom in a 16:9 LB picture which is what is normally needed?

Quote:
... But I think it looks better in the "4:3" setting, despite the sidebars and a smaller picture. ...
But that's the problem, Escape and Grit's pictures are really already in 4:3, then in turn within a 16:9 box inside of it (i.e. it's a window-box image). Now if the picture inside that 16:9 box is stretched 4:3 as it is on some of the older movies they show there is no "common" way to un-stretch it.

Quote:
... Also note that 4:3 material will already appear that way on unstretched SD like COZI, and presumably Movies!, if they were to show a very old classic filmed in 4:3. ...
Well, the problem I have here is that as I explained awhile back my stupid TV (and as many others behave unfortunately), defaults to 4:3 when receiving 16:9 SD channels like COZI, Movies! (finally) along with all other 16:9 SD channels. And I have to manually switch the TV to widescreen and back when I'm finished viewing the channel.

Quote:
... What really bugs me, however, is the widespread practice of cropping widescreen movies, etc., to a 4:3 ratio, for example, This TV on 5.3, (and 69.3 if you can get San Diego). Those people are living in the last century!
Oh yeah;

Just crop or center-cut unless there is a specific Pan & Scan version they're telecasting.

Sometimes opening the program with the old familiar and nowadays quite sickening message ...

"This Movie has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit your screen ... "
Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA 03:16 PM 08-21-2014
Grit and Escape are both provided in 1080i over satellite. What it sounds like is that the source 1080i feeds are showing 4:3 stretched into 16:9, then some of the local stations are letterboxing that stretched video. Fun stuff.

- Trip
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