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post #211 of 9598 Old 04-30-2003, 01:35 PM
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Hi markt170,
I have DirecTV and OTA running through my STB (Sony HD200). You can get either OTA or DirecTV Local channels at any time, so if your OTA is not working, you will still be able to get your local channels via DirecTV (As long as you subscribe to Local Channels with DirecTV).

I can't answer your local OTA question, as I located in South Orange County, but I am sure someone will respond to your question!

Hope this helps you,

Tom
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post #212 of 9598 Old 04-30-2003, 02:52 PM
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Hi Guys,

Status update. Got the antenna up and mounted. 10ft mast on the side of the house attached to the car port. The antenna itself is about 6 ft higher than the roof of the house and has a clear shot to the correct azimuth. There's an 8 ft run of RG-6 to the -1171 amp and then a 50 ft run from the amp to the other side of the house, to the TV. Still waiting on the UPS guy to arrive to actually install the OTA tuner. Should be here any minute!!! Two questions.... 1. I couldn't get the amp any closer to the antenna output without running a 25 foot extension cord up the roof. Anyone see a problem with this. 2. Is the -1171 and a 50 ft run too much. I could probably get by with 35 feet from the amp to the TV, but haven't found any pre-terminated RG6 at that distance. I know, I know.... hook everything up and see how it performs. I just am getting nervous about something not working! Anyway, thanks again for all the help guys and I'll let ya' know how it turns out!

Alan
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post #213 of 9598 Old 04-30-2003, 03:26 PM
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Hey Alan,
good t hear! Let us know when the Tuners is installed!

I know I have read in Gary's posts about the 1171 and distance. He mentioned the 1171 is good for about 25-35ft of RG6 cable run. Any longer than that and he recommends the Channel Master 7775. He may be able to chime in with more info.

My run is about 50ft with 1171, and tonight I am going to try to take it out of the loop and see if I lose any OTA signal or signal strength. I know there are a few San Diego Digital channels that my STB detects but it's a black screen when I go to that channel and I wonder if the CM 7775 will help that situation?

Let us know what happens!
I will chime in on my update with my 1171 experiment tonight...

~Tom
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post #214 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 07:31 AM
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Mornin' Guys,

I was gonna' post last night, but the boards were screwy! First off, I like to say thanks to everyone for the help, especially Tom and Gary! UPS guy showed, plugged the tuner card in, plugged the pre-amp in and did a search for digital stations. Picked up ALL 7 off the bat! It was that darn easy! The two PBSs are at 100%. ABC, CBS, NBC, UPN and the WB are all between 76 and 88%, with ABC being the lowest. Fox hovers down around 55, but the picture seems fine, didn't cut out in the 45 min or so that I watched. All the channels look great, no pixelation or drop outs. Audio was good too, no lip syncing problems. The HD PBS channel is GREAT! I even stayed up to watch Leno, something I normally don't do. WOW!!! Even the standard def stuff is soooooooo much better than what I get through Dish. MY two azimuths are 130 and 140, so I pointed the antenna somewhere are the 136 mark. I think this weekend I'll play around a lil' and see if I can fine tune it. Again, THANKS SO MUCH for all the assistance. Hard to believe it was this easy. I think I'm one of the lucky ones!

Alan
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post #215 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 07:39 AM
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Great to hear Alan!
Welcome to HD, glad it worked out for you! I know you had a specific line of sight to follow, so it's good to hear it was a workable solution!

Enjoy!
~Tom
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post #216 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 08:22 AM
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Alan --

Congrats! You will be blurry-eyed by the end of the week!

To clear up one point about using the 1171 vs the 7775, it is only the distance from the antenna to the amp that is critical, not from the amp to the receiver. You need to have as little induced noise in the signal as possible before you amplify it or otherwise the noise gets boosted as well. I've run as much as 200 feet from an 1171 to a receiver with little descernable loss of quality. Anyway, eight feet is perfect, as you are seeing!

Anyway, glad you're on board. I just get all giddy whenever someone else joins our little club here and can tell Cox to shove it!

-- Gary
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post #217 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 08:40 AM
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Gary,

There's a club? Do I get a name tag or secret handshake or something??? Heh heh heh. I understand ya' now about the amp. I've got about an 8 ft run between the antenna and amp, in order to mount the amp out of the weather. Otherwise, it would be up on the roof, and I don't have a long enough extension cord. Would I possibly see any improvement in signal strength by moving the amp closer to the antenna? I'm sure getting the cables up there would be no problem, but what/how do you seal up the power input to the amp? Any thoughts on how to keep moisture out.... don't want a short or electrical fire up on the roof!

Alan
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post #218 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 09:19 AM
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The best preamps (i.e. lowest noise), like the Channel Master 7775, get their power thru' the coax cable so you don't have to run a line cord up to the preamp.
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post #219 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 10:18 AM
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I did not know that Cymro. Hmmmmm........ something to think about. Or should I just suck it up and be happy with what I have?
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post #220 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 10:29 AM
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You are right, the 7775 is easier to use but it isn't available locally and you can't send it back if it doesn't help your situation.

I had one other case with a friend's setup, up in the SF Valley. He's a lot closer to to Mt. Wilson (about 15 miles...) so I originally didn't use any amp with his setup (two Silver Sensors, see one of the earlier pages in this thread for a picture...). He was getting some occasional dropouts on a couple of channels so I decided to try an amp to see if it would improve things. I first tried an "extra" 7775 because there was no power available on the roof but it made everything completely worse! I think it was because it was totally overpowering the receiver. Next we tried an 1171 and used a long extension cord to get it within about 10 feet of the SS combo. The "numbers" on his HD200 readout went up for every channel. My only explanation is that the 1171 has a gain of 15 dB vs. 26 dB for the 7775. As I've said before, gain for digital reception is less of a problem than getting rid of multipath reflections. Anyway, we moved his SSs to another corner of the house and mounted the 1171 under an eave where he already had power (for Christmas lights...) and he's been dropout free since then.

-- Gary
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post #221 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 10:53 AM
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Thanks Gary and Cymro,

I think for the time being, I'll leave it as is. Between $$$ and the limited amount of time I've spent with it, this is probably the best way to go. So when do I get to learn the handshake?

Alan
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post #222 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 12:19 PM
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I would sure like to know the handshake also!

Maybe we can do a small get together for coffee somewhere and meet for a short while?

It would be great to put faces to the names!

~Tom
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post #223 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 02:37 PM
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markt170,
You should have no problem in Encino unless there's a huge building between you and Mt. Wilson. Your antenna will need to point to compass bearing 65 degrees NE from you. A good indicator of wether you will get OTA digital reception is if you can get any kind of picture even snowy on KCET channel 28 (UHF analog). I'm at Sepulveda and the 101 and get high strength with a not-great Terk antenna on a single-story house.

The OTA and DirecTV locals should appear as different channels in your guide, e.g. KCBS is 2 (DirecTV) and 2-1 (OTA).

Tony
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post #224 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 04:52 PM
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I've been reading through this thread here and there and can't determine whether or not I'd be able to get any HD reception from Huntington Beach with these antenna's and amps you guys are using. Also, what does a CM4228 and CM7775 UHF amp run cost-wise?? I love my TV's HD pictures, but the SD looks pretty bad with DirecTV, so I'm to the point where I'd like to try experimenting with other options. Also, I'm currently living in an apartment on 2nd floor of the east side with a pretty large balcony. It works great for the dish, but how much more obtrusive would these antenna's be?? My neighbors really don't care and the apt. complex doesn't mind the dish, but I'm not sure I've seen one of the antenna's before (unless it just looks like a regular antenna). Sorry for the newbie questions, I'm just trying to get a grip on what all this would require, IF I can actually get reception from where I'm at. Thanks for your help/feedback!


-Matt
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post #225 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 07:55 PM
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Mattwiks, I have a slightly used CM 4228 i'm willing to sell you. I tried it and didnt pick up anymore channels than my Winegard 4400. So im just gonna stick with the winegard. Anybody know of a installer around the Pasadena area. I'm getting sick of trying to get KABC and would rather just pay someone to solve my problems. Also do you guys think im getting a multipath problem? I get no dropouts what so ever on my other channels but KABC just doesnt come in at all. I tried watching the non digital channels and reception seems pretty good. I'm able to get KABC fairly clearly. Anythoughts?
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post #226 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 08:11 PM
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Hi Mattwiks,
if you can get the 4228 from someone here, you can save yourself some money. If you go through a Channel Master Distributor (i.e. http://www.warrenelectronics.com is one), the CM4228 runs about $61 shipped and the CM7775 is about $62 shipped.

You can check http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.asp to see the type of antenna you would need and directions to point the antenna and that should give you an indication of your chances of success.

You can also try a quick install, with a Silver Sensor from Sears ( http://www.sears.com/sr/product/summ...id=05768514000 )or Circuit City for around $40 and see if you get anything on the DT or HD stations OTA, you may find that it may do the job on it's own or with an amp, perhaps a Radio Shack 15-1171 for around $50..lot's of options and no hard and fast rules, trial and error. The local options are good to try first, as you can return the products if they don't work...

Hope this helps!

~Tom
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post #227 of 9598 Old 05-01-2003, 09:56 PM
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Tom --

I like the coffee idea. Let's pick a place and a time. I had planned on hosting a get together but the "crowd" is getting pretty big! We should pick a place somewhat centrally located like in Mission Viejo someplace.

Matt --

Where you are you should get great reception with a single Silver Sensor and an 1171 amp. The SS is small, kinda cool looking and easily mounted on your balcony. You might even get lucky and find a spot indoors that works. Even on the balcony. The 4228, which is about $50, is overkill for sure at your location. The thing is not small either(about 4 foot square...). The 7775, which is over $50, is a two-piece unit and is used in cases where you have long cable runs between the antenna and the amp. Not a problem in your case.

-- Gary
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post #228 of 9598 Old 05-02-2003, 09:22 AM
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Thanks for all of that great info. guys, that clears up a lot of questions for me! My g/f's going to be shopping at Westminster Mall today so I'll have her pick up a Silver Sensor at Sears while she's there. I'll try hooking it up during my lunch hour and see if I can get a signal, if not I'll go get the 1171 amp after work and then try that. I wasn't sure if those big antenna's were needed for everyone to get digital signals but I guess it makes since that you shouldn't need something so powerful if you're not too far from the city. I'll make sure to let you guys know if it works out, but I'm hopeful it will. Thanks again!!
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post #229 of 9598 Old 05-02-2003, 03:06 PM
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I live on Woodman and Victory and get 100 strength on all locals (except for KABC which is at 65 but no breakups). I have a winegard 4400 that you can borrow and try out. ( I bought a 8800 for my use, but the 4400 should be enough for you). E-mail me and let me know if you want to use it.
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post #230 of 9598 Old 05-03-2003, 07:50 AM
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OK Guys, explain this! I woke up today and as is my ritual, I checked my OTA with the new 4228. The rotor was pointed toward LA and everything seemed fine until I left channel 9.1 (kCAL nothing this morning) and landed on 10.1. For whatever reason I'm receiving ABC (San Diego) while pointed at the LA feeds. It must have something to do with the rain? It's coming in very strong, no dropouts. Anyone have a theory? This happened once before with the Televes75 with CBS, but didn't last long. Is this some form of multipath? Everything seems OK with the new 4228 setup. The Televes seems a little more efficient. I can't get CBS (LA) at all. I'm still fiddling with the rotor a lot.

Robert
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post #231 of 9598 Old 05-03-2003, 08:17 AM
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Simple. It is coming throught the screen from the back. Without the screen it would probably work great in your special situaton where the LA and SD stations are almost exactly 180 degrees from each other.

-- Gary
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post #232 of 9598 Old 05-03-2003, 08:28 AM
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Hey Rob, I'm just jealous that you get LA stations and I can't! I only live a mile from you!



~Tom
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post #233 of 9598 Old 05-05-2003, 10:13 AM
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You are probably seeing a propagation phenomena known as ducting. Ducting occurs when cool winds from the ocean blow across the land. This creates a band (or duct) of cool air trapped between two layers of warm air. Once radio signals (typically in the VHF and UHF bands) enter this duct, they effectively 'bounce' inside the duct, with some of the signal penetrating the top and bottom of the duct on each bounce. This anomaly can greatly extend the range of communications. For UHF, ducting can extend the range from 40km to over 400km. However, severe atmospheric disturbances, such as tropical cyclones, destroy ducting by disrupting the temperature inversion.

I have seen Chan 2 here in So Cal be overridden by Chan 2 in TX.

r. emrich


Quote:


Originally posted by robhair
OK Guys, explain this! I woke up today and as is my ritual, I checked my OTA with the new 4228. The rotor was pointed toward LA and everything seemed fine until I left channel 9.1 (kCAL nothing this morning) and landed on 10.1. For whatever reason I'm receiving ABC (San Diego) while pointed at the LA feeds. It must have something to do with the rain? It's coming in very strong, no dropouts. Anyone have a theory? This happened once before with the Televes75 with CBS, but didn't last long. Is this some form of multipath? Everything seems OK with the new 4228 setup. The Televes seems a little more efficient. I can't get CBS (LA) at all. I'm still fiddling with the rotor a lot.

Robert

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post #234 of 9598 Old 05-05-2003, 08:44 PM
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Hey r. ,
Well, very interesting. I also get an "override" from channel 19.1 (San Diego) when on 15.1. I switch to 15.1 and the WB 19.1 takes over. Do you thing ducting is causing this also?
Robert
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post #235 of 9598 Old 05-06-2003, 01:45 AM
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Looking for antenna help in North Tustin, CA

Currently have a CM 4248 (Yagi) with a rotor teamed with a CM amp and a Toshiba STB. According to reception maps from Mt. Wilson, I live in a "shadow" area making reception a challenge.

I get KCBS in with a strong signal but all other LA stations vary with rotor direction, weather, etc, and top out at a reading of around 60 on the STB.

I'm contemplating a few changes and would gladly welcome anyone's input. My options to improve reception are:

1) Add another CM 4248 horizontally mounted

2) Try a bow-CM 4228

3) Try a new Yagi, i.e. Blake JBX21, Lance (viewable at www.antennaperformance.com)

4) Any other ideas...?

Again, your input is appreciated!!!

KK20
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post #236 of 9598 Old 05-06-2003, 07:05 AM
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I would try two stacked 4248s. I don't thinks a single 4228 will be an improvement over the 4248 you have now. With the stacked setup, I'd try a hybrid combiner from CM instead of a turned-around splitter to make sure you're getting the maximum benefit. Check out the thread on stack antennas/multipath going on right now for more info.

-- Gary
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post #237 of 9598 Old 05-06-2003, 10:52 AM
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'normally' being on 2 different frequencies you should not see fundamental frequency overload effect of a strong ducting activity. I am not sure if it is a propagation thing or a problem with your receiver front end being too open that is causing your problem. Are both chan. digital ?? (it looks like 15 (KPBS) is analog and 19 (KSWB) is digital).. this could be having an effect as well...


Quote:
Originally posted by robhair
Hey r. ,
Well, very interesting. I also get an "override" from channel 19.1 (San Diego) when on 15.1. I switch to 15.1 and the WB 19.1 takes over. Do you thing ducting is causing this also?
Robert

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post #238 of 9598 Old 05-06-2003, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by remrich
I am not sure if it is a propagation thing or a problem with your receiver front end being too open that is causing your problem. Are both chan. digital ?? (it looks like 15 (KPBS) is analog and 19 (KSWB) is digital).. this could be having an effect as well... [/b]

r.,

All the stations I receive are digital. 15.1 & 15.2 are really 30 in San Diego. I'm using my HD receiver in an integrated Mits65869 rptv. What do you mean by my receivers front end being too open?

Robert
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post #239 of 9598 Old 05-07-2003, 07:41 AM
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Hi Guys,

Changing things up a bit... for those who pick up San Diego channels, is anyone still getting Fox? Antenna placement is still on the correct azimuth, all other channels look GREAT. Fox just disappeared, I think last Thurs. night. Just curious. Didn't push any button or change any settings, just a black screen on that particular channel. I know, it's not "HD" stuff, but the digital channel looks sooooooo much better than what I get from Dish. All in all, everything else is going good.... I can't believe how much new stuff I'm watching now, just 'cause it's Hi-Def. Yeah Baby!
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post #240 of 9598 Old 05-07-2003, 08:08 AM
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Hey GF!
No problems here in getting FOX San Diego, you may have to play a bit more with the azimuth in SMALL increments? Did you also try to rescan the channels?
["I can't believe how much new stuff I'm watching now, just 'cause it's Hi-Def. Yeah Baby!"], I said the same thing Monday night (during a CBS HD promo of "Your watching HD on CBS" showing all the HD programming on CDS in HD and with a tear in my eye) and she said I was crazy, glad to know I am not alone! ( it was awesome..got a tissue?)

~Tom
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