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post #361 of 4969 Old 01-14-2004, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by mraub
As soon as my installer can get me a Dish 811 receiver, I'm moving to HD. I wonder if someone in Champaign can give me some practical antenna advice.

I live in Southwest Champaign (Robeson Meadows West subdivision--ZIP 61822). I'd like to pick up all the OTA digital signals. Though I have lots of free attic space, some sort of antenna mounted on the Dish bracket would be an easier install.
MIKE

If by all you mean all, you will need an outdoor antenna at
a respectable height and a good preamp. This includes Fox digital, WRSP-DT
channel 44 in Springfield. Fox is not HD just yet, but their picture
is widescreen and better than most DVDs. They will be HD next fall
some time. WCCU will go digital when Hell freezes over. For Fox
you should get the very best (9032) or at least next best (9022) in Winegard UHF only antennas, and a ChannelMaster 7775 amplifier.

Without Fox it will be easier. Do not try any dish mounted antenna.
An attic antenna will probably work. Even the Radio Shack double
bowtie (930-0998) or a Silver Sensor (a unique name) will possibly work if it's a tall two story house. A quad bowtie from Channelmaster (3021/4221) or Winegard (4400) probably will. WICD will be off the back but will probably work fine there. If you want to kiss off Fox I'd get the quad bowtie and try it. If it doesn't work in the attic, mount it right at the top of the roof, just above it. If its a long (>40 ft) cable (RG-6) run you will possibly but not necessarily need the 7775. Don't buy it unless
you need it.

Don't get a big VHF-UHF antenna ... they are far too huge and unneeded.
If you have trouble with WILL-DT Channel 9 ... not on until mid
February ... put a rabbit ears in the attic for them and use a UHF-VHF combiner.

Don't even consider any indoor antenna except a double bowtie or
Silver Sensor.

If I lived out there, I'd put the big UHF antenna on a tower 11.999
feet above the rooftop. A big antenna tells the Joneses next door
that you've got a hotshot HDTV. That area NEEDS some big antennas
on the roof.

Doug McDonald
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post #362 of 4969 Old 01-14-2004, 05:05 PM
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Is anyone having problems with the sound on HD broadcasts from WAND (ABC) Decatur IL? Whenever there is an HD program on the sound I get has alot of echo to it. I don't have any audio enhancements set and WAND is the only channel that has this problem. I have the Hughes HTL-HD. Just wondering if anyone else is having this problem.

I've noticed this from time to time on Alias and other prime time shows. I don't think I noticed it with MNF, though. I've been meaning to e-mail WAND about it, but keep forgetting to. They're kind of hit and miss with e-mail responses anyway, so I don't know if they'd respond or not. I'll e-mail them later tonight. If I hear back from them, I'll let everyone know.

BTW, I've noticed this on a Hughes E86 and a Zenith HD-SAT520. It's not your HD receiver.
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post #363 of 4969 Old 01-14-2004, 06:15 PM
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I have the LG 3200A and also get an echo effect from WAND-DT.
I end up tuning to WHOI-DT because the echo is so annoying.

I don't know much about it, so I thought it was an over-amping problem.

Paul
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post #364 of 4969 Old 01-14-2004, 08:11 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by roberte114
Is anyone having problems with the sound on HD broadcasts from WAND (ABC) Decatur IL? Whenever there is an HD program on the sound I get has alot of echo to it. I don't have any audio enhancements set and WAND is the only channel that has this problem. I have the Hughes HTL-HD. Just wondering if anyone else is having this problem.

I don't get any echo, however, the audio synchronization is off. Am I the only one have this problem?
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post #365 of 4969 Old 01-14-2004, 08:35 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mraub
As soon as my installer can get me a Dish 811 receiver, I'm moving to HD. I wonder if someone in Champaign can give me some practical antenna advice.

I live in Southwest Champaign (Robeson Meadows West subdivision--ZIP 61822). I'd like to pick up all the OTA digital signals. Though I have lots of free attic space, some sort of antenna mounted on the Dish bracket would be an easier install. I know the Terk stuff is junk, but a guy at Radio Shack said customers have been doing well with RS's amplified omni-directional antenna. Would this likely do for me, or do I need to be looking at a directional antenna in the attic. I checked antennaweb.org, which suggested I might need a directional antenna for a couple of stations. However, someone with personal experience would be more helpful.

Thanks,

MIKE

My experience is simlar to what Doug McDonald suggested. I live in southwest Champaign (south of Windsor). I have a small Radio Shack UHF only directional antenna (15-2160 $22) mounted in the attic of a two storey house. It points about 5 degrees north of due west. i.e. in almost a direct line toward the wcia antenna from my house. I get all of the digitial channels including wrsp out of Springfied. I use a Channel Master preamp which is a slight variation of the 7775 (same electronics, plastic box). I need the preamp because I have a 100 ft cable run of RG6 down to my crawl space and over to the living room.

If you want to buy stuff locally, Radio Shack had the antenna; Menard's has the best prices on 100ft runs of RG6 as well as connectors. I found the CM preamp at Lowes for about $60. IF you want to try a cheap preamp, Menards had one for $10-$15 which worked better than the RS inline but was not nearly as good as the CM7775 clone.

John
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post #366 of 4969 Old 01-15-2004, 06:08 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jtv
My experience is simlar to what Doug McDonald suggested. I live in southwest Champaign (south of Windsor). I have a small Radio Shack UHF only directional antenna (15-2160 $22) mounted in the attic of a two storey house. It points about 5 degrees north of due west. i.e. in almost a direct line toward the wcia antenna from my house. I get all of the digitial channels including wrsp out of Springfied. I use a Channel Master preamp which is a slight variation of the 7775 (same electronics, plastic box). I need the preamp because I have a 100 ft cable run of RG6 down to my crawl space and over to the living room.

If you want to buy stuff locally, Radio Shack had the antenna; Menard's has the best prices on 100ft runs of RG6 as well as connectors. I found the CM preamp at Lowes for about $60. IF you want to try a cheap preamp, Menards had one for $10-$15 which worked better than the RS inline but was not nearly as good as the CM7775 clone.

John

Same experience here. I have a VHF/UHF Radio Shack antenna in my 2-story attic pointed about 5 degrees north of due west with a CM preamp. Live in Arbour Meadows subdivision in Savoy. I get all the digital channels including WCIA, WAND, WBUI, WICD. WSRP comes in most of the time, but not always - probably the result of the small-ish UHF reflector on the combo antenna, but I wanted the combo to get WILL when they go live on channel 9. I might try the UHF only with a UHF-only preamp to see if it does better on WSRP than the combo antenna.

Meanwhile, those of you with DISH or DirecTV might want to consider the option of moving your service address to Chicago. If you have a friend in Chicago who is willing to "lend" you their address, you can change your service address to Chicago while leaving your billing address and phone number local. Changing your service address will qualify you for Chicago local channels which in turn means that you automatically qualify to receive the CBS HD feed (already available on DISH, though they are having some contract difficulties with Viacom that could result in an interruption of this feed; the CBS HD channel is supposed to be available before the Superbowl on DirecTV). To get the CBS HD feed (which is WCBS-DT from NY) on DISH, you'll need a separate dish pointed at 61.5-degrees and an SW64 or DP32 switch to combine three sats for your receiver. For DirecTV, you'll need a 3-lnb oval dish with the "Sat C" kit and multiswitch. Also, DirecTV has announced that it also will carry the Fox ED (eventually HD) feed for Fox O&O stations, so if you have DirecTV and move your service address to Chicago, you'll get this too.

You all will have to assess for yourselves the ethics of lying about your service address to your satellite provider. In my own case, I've made the decision that since WCIA and WCCU have decided not to provide me with the service I want, I will take steps to secure that service other ways. Doing this also means that you can't call DISH or DirecTV and have them send out an installer to your house to add or fix something, because the installer would go to your service address. So if you aren't technically "handy" and can take care of your own dish installations and wiring, this isn't a good idea.

John C.
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post #367 of 4969 Old 01-15-2004, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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It's interesting that you get WRSP with that setup. Is it reliable?

I'm near Windsor just east of Neil and I get it most of
the time with a modest antenna, but not 100%. However, I'm behind
another building. With a big antenna it is perfectly reliable. Without
a preamp I never get it.

I just tried my new propagation prediction software and
it predicts an 8 dB difference between me and far SW Champaign,
so I guess that's the difference.

Doug McDonald
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post #368 of 4969 Old 01-15-2004, 09:16 AM
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Thanks for all the good advice on antenna selection. I hope to have HD in place for the Superbowl, but that depends on whether Dish can supply a receiver by then.

The guy I'm buying the gear from is savvy about choosing service addresses to get the feeds you want. Be careful about using Chicago area addresses: if you get too far North or West you may need waivers from Milwaukee or Rockford stations. Best to stick with the South Suburbs.

MIKE

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post #369 of 4969 Old 01-15-2004, 09:17 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jdmcdonald
It's interesting that you get WRSP with that setup. Is it reliable?

I'm near Windsor just east of Neil and I get it most of
the time with a modest antenna, but not 100%. However, I'm behind
another building. With a big antenna it is perfectly reliable. Without
a preamp I never get it.

I just tried my new propagation prediction software and
it predicts an 8 dB difference between me and far SW Champaign,
so I guess that's the difference.

Doug McDonald

"Reliable" might be too strong a description. I can usually get WRSP in the evenings without dropouts. Daytime, usually not. I've attributed this to day/night propagation differences for UHF signals.

John C.
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post #370 of 4969 Old 01-15-2004, 11:27 AM
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All the talk about dircetv sending down cbs in HD is getting me excited. In Springfield we can get a waiver for cbs, and I get the NY and LA feeds. I can also pick up ch 3 in dtv too.

If this happens, it will complete the major networks for me. Right now I can get FOX (WRSP), ABC (WAND), NBC (WEEK), PBS (WSEC? 15.2 and 46.4 W???) and hopefully cbs through Directv.

I WANT MORE! I think I am sick
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post #371 of 4969 Old 01-15-2004, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by jdcolombo
"Reliable" might be too strong a description. I can usually get WRSP in the evenings without dropouts. Daytime, usually not. I've attributed this to day/night propagation differences for UHF signals.

John C.

OK that makes sense!

It's the same for me with my less than super antenna.

I'm using very big guns for reliability .... a tuned-to-channel-44 antenna
(made by me) and a tuned-for-Ch.-44 preamp from Advanced
Receiver Research with a 0.6 dB noise figure. However, in actual
fact it turns out I don't need the super preamp, just a pretty
good one. The Rat Shack inline one is nowhere near good enough.

Doug McDonald
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post #372 of 4969 Old 01-15-2004, 11:53 AM
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>>>In Springfield we can get a waiver for cbs, and I get the NY and LA feeds. I can also pick up ch 3 in dtv too.


Isn't CBS in Springfield the same as WCIA in Champaign? If so, Champaign residents should be able to get the same waiver.

MIKE

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post #373 of 4969 Old 01-15-2004, 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by mraub
>>>In Springfield we can get a waiver for cbs, and I get the NY and LA feeds. I can also pick up ch 3 in dtv too.


Isn't CBS in Springfield the same as WCIA in Champaign? If so, Champaign residents should be able to get the same waiver.

MIKE

The waiver for Springfield is probably based on the fact that Springfield is not in the Grade B contour area for WCIA's analog transmitter. You can get WCIA on DTV because they share space with WCFN, which used to be WCIA's low-power translator for Springfield. Now, however, I think that the analog transmitter is devoted entirely to WCFN, which means that Springfield technically is in a "white" area when it comes to CBS. Doug McDonald probably knows more about the transmitter/contour situation than I do, but I can tell you for certain that I once asked WCIA for a waiver and it was denied. But I live in Savoy.

John C.
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post #374 of 4969 Old 01-15-2004, 01:50 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mraub
>>>In Springfield we can get a waiver for cbs, and I get the NY and LA feeds. I can also pick up ch 3 in dtv too.


Isn't CBS in Springfield the same as WCIA in Champaign? If so, Champaign residents should be able to get the same waiver.

MIKE

Yes it is WCIA. We can not, however, receive the analog signal.
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post #375 of 4969 Old 01-15-2004, 02:38 PM
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Yes it is WCIA. We can not, however, receive the analog signal.

That makes sense. I always assumed they had some sort of repeater to rebroadcast their signal over there.

MIKE

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post #376 of 4969 Old 01-15-2004, 08:34 PM
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I noticed the echo tonight durring Primetime. It sounds like a phaze problem, reminds of Funkadelic's Magot Brain. I wonder if thay are trying to send two audio signals at the same time?
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post #377 of 4969 Old 01-15-2004, 08:47 PM
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I sent an e-mail to WAND asking about the "echo" problem early this morning. So far, I have not received a response. Anybody else send them one? Maybe if several of us notify them of the problem, they'll take it seriously...
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post #378 of 4969 Old 01-16-2004, 09:57 AM
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RRick,

I have also seen the echo & sync problem on WAND. I am sending them an email. I will let you know what I get for a response.

Ed
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post #379 of 4969 Old 01-16-2004, 10:13 AM
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Edster,

Sorry to be late on the reply. I have a good setup but can't get anything out of Champaign. I get everything out of Peoria, Decatur and Springfield plus 28-1.

Don
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post #380 of 4969 Old 01-16-2004, 05:43 PM
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I received a reply from WAND today concerning the echo problem. The response they provided was incredibly detailed in terms of the hardware they use and the possible source of the problem. Long story short, they are aware of the issue and said they would attempt to correct it. Let's hope they're able to do so!
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post #381 of 4969 Old 01-17-2004, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I listened for the problem last night and heard it ... though only
in stereo from the STB. The DD 5.1 from my surround receiver
sounded fine, though a bit out of sync, as has been noted.
This was not really bad though.

Doug
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post #382 of 4969 Old 01-18-2004, 01:21 PM
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Good afternoon all,

I just had Dish installed here in Urbana yesterday afternoon. The promo deal for new subscribers that includes the 811 Hi-Def receiver made it a no-brainer over DirecTV (at least for me). I had ordered the install on December 23 and this was the soonest install date I could get. Apparently I got lucky only waiting 3 weeks or so. The installer said they have been absolutely pounded with people wanting the locals and that some installs are backed out as far as September 2004. Plus the 811s are backordered like a sonofabitch (for a while there Dish wasn't even taking install orders for the 811; not sure if that's still the case). 811s on Ebay are going for more money than they cost to buy from Dish.

Mine was only the second 811 install that this installation team had done. I actually had to do the connections to the home theatre system (which frankly I would prefer to do anyway).

The installers came from Danville. They got here at 3pm and worked until about 7pm. The new "superdishes" that are used to get the locals CANNOT be mounted on a roof or side of a building due to the weight. They must sit on a pole, and since the pole they provide is only about 7 feet tall, this may present problems getting the right exposure or building/roof clearance for a lot of people. We walked around my property and tried a couple of different places and ultimately settled on a spot at the back of my property. They dug a hole, poured concrete and set the pole to firm up. They ran cable underground up to my house.

The 811 receiver has a bonus of also having an OTA tuner built in. Unlike the one built into my Mits 65613, this one *does* have a signal strength indicator. Once you scan for channels and save them, it integrates those channels into the Dish guide, so you can browse through them with your satellite channels (no content is given for the OTA channels though). I noticed that the OTA CBS feed is better than the Dish feed of WCIA.

I also had a 301 (they were out of 301s so I got the newer 311) installed in a back room that I'm going to use as a home gym (gotta get rid of some excess tonnage . I have it hooked up to an InFocus X1 projector. Here the SD really shows its limitations when projected at 80" diagonal. Once things settle down and the demand for 811s wanes a bit, I'll probably pick up a used one in order to be able to see some HiDef back there.

Overall , I'm quite pleased, but I wish Dish had BravoHD...

-Dan

"But I want to do community service; I want to teach the handicapped how to yodel." - Hudson Hawk
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post #383 of 4969 Old 01-21-2004, 12:57 PM
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I thought I would share an email reply I received this afternoon from the GM at WCIA as to why the station is not passing HDTV. Apparently this station or its owner, Nexstar, is not doing well financially or else this is another station that is kicking and screaming about new technology.

Steve
............................................................ .......................................................

Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 2:18 PM
To: eng@wcia.com
Cc: vpgm@wcia.com
Subject: Where's your HDTV?


I was just perusing your website and saw the promotion with the big screen
giveaway. What about watching the Super Bowl in HDTV? I've been reading
through posts at www.avsforum.com about the lack of HDTV from CBS stations
in Central Illinois. Nearby WLFI-DT 11, Lafayette, IN, market #190, is
finalizing its HDTV installation. The Super Bowl will be in HDTV on that
station.

If I am wrong about WCIA-DT not offering HDTV, then please enlighten me.
Otherwise, it seems that after 50 years of service, WCIA has not moved
forward with the latest technology.

Steve Rich
Indianapolis
............................................................ ......................................................

Thank you for your question and comments about WCIA not moving forward with
the latest technology. I don't know if you run a business or own a company
but as always there are tremendous cost issues along with government
mandates. Pursuant to FCC requirements we are transmitting a standard
definition digital broadcast signal for WCIA. As per the FCC stations may
broadcast both analog and digital signals until at least December 31, 2006,
when we may be required to abandon the analog format, provided that 85% of
households with our DMA have the capability to receive a digital signal.
Currently our market is a long way from 85% to just receive a digital signal
let alone HDTV. We have made a decision to broadcast standard definition
digital signals until such time as the FCC mandates high definition
broadcasts or our viewer base supports the additional costs associated with
transmitting a high definition signal. Based on your comments I don't know
if this will enlighten you or not but "The pure and simple truth is rarely
pure and never simple".....

Russ Hamilton
Vice President & General Manager
WCIA
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post #384 of 4969 Old 01-21-2004, 01:23 PM
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Steve,
Since you have made contact with one of the powers that be at WCIA, why don't respond inquiring if they will grant waivers for anyone who wants the CBS-HD feed from Dish or (soon) DirecTV. If, as he says, the market for HDTV is minuscule, why would granting a few waivers hurt them?
MIKE

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post #385 of 4969 Old 01-21-2004, 02:31 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mraub
Steve,
Since you have made contact with one of the powers that be at WCIA, why don't respond inquiring if they will grant waivers for anyone who wants the CBS-HD feed from Dish or (soon) DirecTV. If, as he says, the market for HDTV is minuscule, why would granting a few waivers hurt them?
MIKE

It's not an OBO market.

Rick

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post #386 of 4969 Old 01-22-2004, 09:01 AM
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It's not an OBO market

I'm not familiar with that acronym. How would that affect their discretion to grant a waiver to those who request one?

MIKE

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post #387 of 4969 Old 01-22-2004, 10:42 AM
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OBO - owned by and operated by.

as I understand it in a nutshell CBS will allow CBS HD over those people in areas where CBS ownes the Station, but where the station is owned by and operated by a second company then you will have to have to get a waiver from your local channel if you want to recieve the HD channel over satelite. This is to protect the local owners from our eyes not seeing the local ads.

Ed
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post #388 of 4969 Old 01-22-2004, 10:54 AM
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as I understand it in a nutshell CBS will allow CBS HD over those people in areas where CBS ownes the Station, but where the station is owned by and operated by a second company then you will have to have to get a waiver from your local channel if you want to recieve the HD channel over satelite. This is to protect the local owners from our eyes not seeing the local ads.

That bring us back to my original query: If the HD market in Champaign is minuscule, why would WCIA balk at giving waivers to the few who request them?

MIKE

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post #389 of 4969 Old 01-22-2004, 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by mraub
That bring us back to my original query: If the HD market in Champaign is minuscule, why would WCIA balk at giving waivers to the few who request them?

MIKE

Because WCIA doesn't REALLY think the HD market is all that small, or at least doesn't think it will remain that small.

Face it, this isn't really a market-driven decision. Nextstar Communications doesn't want to spend the money to upgrade WCIA's infrastructure to carry HD. And as long as they can force local viewers to watch the SD signal with no possible downside, why should they spend the money? If your boss knew that you had zero job prospects other than working for your current company, would the boss give you a raise? Of course not. Employers give raises because they believe there is a realistic possibility they will lose a good employee to another company. Similarly, why should WCIA spend money when they know their viewers have no alternative?

The problem with the HD system is that there is neither a federal mandate to broadcast in HD, nor a market method to let consumers voice their preferences. Instead, we have what is the worst of all possible economic systems: an essentially unregulated monopoly. WCIA knows that no matter how many HD fans there are in the market, we have no choice but to watch their SD signal if we want to watch CBS at all. I suppose that if eventually their ratings fell because people started switching to WAND or WICD, then maybe they'd perk up. But the truth is that most of us will watch CBS because of the shows - we may swear and grit our teeth, but we won't switch off CSI and watch Frazier.

It's because of this royal screwing of the consumer that I made my own choice to acquire CBS HD through other means. But if you think WCIA is going to give you a waiver when they can force you to watch their station, well, don't hold your breath.

John C.
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post #390 of 4969 Old 01-24-2004, 11:09 AM
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Any chance WICD will have their HD signal going by the Daytona 500?

Rick

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