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Local HDTV Info and Reception

mbuchana's Avatar mbuchana
12:52 PM Liked: 12
post #91 of 1414
08-12-2003 | Posts: 506
Joined: Aug 2000
Greg,

I'm within a couple of miles of you (SE of Drake & Lemay). I would think you would get at least a hint of a signal from KDVR-DT (32) from Denver, and KGWN-DT (30) from Cheyenne. KGWN is still having problems, but their signal seems pretty strong. I have a "medium directional" antenna and get these easily. Unfortunately, I have to use a rotator to get both. Your multi-directional would avoid the rotator, but it may have multi-path problems and less gain. Nevertheless, I would still expect you would get some type of signal reading.

How well can you pick up analog 31 with this antenna? If it is a reasonable picture without a lot of ghosts, I would think digital 32 would come in fine.

BTW, though they are digital, neither of these do HD currently, so there is no HD OTA in this area yet. The Fox Widescreen 480p programs can look pretty good, though.

Mark
spawnman's Avatar spawnman
01:04 PM Liked: 10
post #92 of 1414
08-12-2003 | Posts: 115
Joined: Aug 2003
Mark,

Thanks for the reply, I guess I haven't tried to get any analog channels. Didn't think about it. I've only had the antenna plugged into the DTV-ANT port and not a standard port.

So is KGWN not showing shows like CSI in HD?

Thanks
Greg
mbuchana's Avatar mbuchana
02:52 PM Liked: 12
post #93 of 1414
08-12-2003 | Posts: 506
Joined: Aug 2000
Quote:
Originally posted by spawnman
So is KGWN not showing shows like CSI in HD?


Correct. They are just showing the same as the analog channel, stretched to 16x9, with messed up audio.

Supposedly they will do HD "soon" but nothing has changed since they went on the air in late May.

Mark
mknoebel's Avatar mknoebel
03:45 PM Liked: 10
post #94 of 1414
09-02-2003 | Posts: 1,179
Joined: Nov 2000
I emailed Mike Brown (Channel 2-NBC Cheyenne) asking when they may be ready to begin broadcasting in HD. He emailed me back today and this was his response:

Quote:


It looks like we will have three standard definition channels available instead of HDTV. And as of now they will all be Spanish programming.

It is now scheduled to be on the air by October 15th.

This certainly is disappointing.

But at least Mike got back to me. kgwn doesn't see the need to respond anymore, I guess. So I don't have any idea what's going on with their stretched SD signal and audio problems.

mbuchana's Avatar mbuchana
09:53 PM Liked: 12
post #95 of 1414
09-03-2003 | Posts: 506
Joined: Aug 2000
I sent another message to Joan Turner, the KGWN General Manager, yesterday. I basically said that if they weren't going to fix the problems, they should just shut the DTV transmitter off. It is truly useless.

I'm happy to see tonight that there seems to have been some improvement in the audio! They are now encoding DD 2.0, rather than 5.0, which is what they should be except if CBS is doing some type of 5.1 HD special like the Grammy Awards. The levels are better, and the left audio doesn't cut in and out. But the left and right channels are out of phase which gives the sound a tinny, diffuse effect when listening in stereo, and it throws all of the audio to the rear if you try to decode it as Dolby Surround.

I reported this status back to them, we'll see what happens.

Small steps, but maybe a good sign.

Mark
mbuchana's Avatar mbuchana
07:49 AM Liked: 12
post #96 of 1414
09-04-2003 | Posts: 506
Joined: Aug 2000
I think I was premature in claiming that the KGWN left audio doesn't cut in and out anymore. It was doing it again during their 10 PM newscast last night. But it isn't as bad as before when it would go from nearly inaudible to blasting loud.

There were some other problems during the newscast also (freezes/breakups when they used certain graphics or changed scenes).

Mark
mknoebel's Avatar mknoebel
09:04 AM Liked: 10
post #97 of 1414
09-04-2003 | Posts: 1,179
Joined: Nov 2000
So, do you think there's any chance they do HD for the Sunday NFL game??
mbuchana's Avatar mbuchana
04:34 PM Liked: 12
post #98 of 1414
09-07-2003 | Posts: 506
Joined: Aug 2000
Mike,

I wouldn't count on it.

I did watch the entire upconverted Broncos/Bengals game today on KGWN-DT. This is the first time their audio has been good enough for me to tolerate the channel for more than a very short time. But it still isn't right. The left and right are out of phase, and the left still gets louder & softer with occasional cracking sounds. Their mono analog channel 5 audio is much better. It's kind of sad that people on the other forums are up in arms about Circle Surround vs. Dolby 5.1 when getting decent mono audio from KGWN-DT would be a major step from where they are now!

KGWN-DT did give a cleaner picture than any other source available to me for the game, and the stretched picture isn't too bad for a football game.

I notice some of their station ID's say "HDTV Channel 30." Since they have never broadcast one minute of true HDTV, as far as I know, this is very misleading. Their web site claims an "HDTV signal" also.

I noticed their encoder (presumably) goes wacky from time to time when they are doing live up-converts of their newscast. Certain graphics cause total loss of picture and sound, and there are many momentary "freezes."

Has anyone else watched long enough to confirm my observations? I think they will need to get these fixed before they will move on to HD.

Mark

P.S. If anyone can do a D-VHS tape of KGWN demonstrating their audio problems, CBS can analyze their bit stream. PM me if you would be willing to do this. I have a W-VHS, but that doesn't do them any good!
TheaterWizard's Avatar TheaterWizard
05:07 PM Liked: 10
post #99 of 1414
09-12-2003 | Posts: 65
Joined: Apr 2002
How depressing is this thread turning out to be, I was truly hoping for some OTA HD up here in Northern Colorado this year. Sure makes you feel like we are way behind the rest of the country.
mbuchana's Avatar mbuchana
10:08 AM Liked: 12
post #100 of 1414
09-19-2003 | Posts: 506
Joined: Aug 2000
I notice that KLWY-DT (Fox) is now on the air, transmitting on channel 28. It seems to map to channel 10--I'm not sure why since their analog channel is 27.

For me, it isn't a very strong signal (around 60% on my Echostar 6000) and I get lots of breakups. I have no idea if they will carry Fox Widescreen stuff.

When I tuned in last night, only the left channel had audio. At the same time, on KGWN-DT, only the right channel had audio.

Doesn't anyone at a Cheyenne station have two ears!?!?

Mark
Christcorp's Avatar Christcorp
06:43 PM Liked: 10
post #101 of 1414
09-24-2003 | Posts: 133
Joined: Apr 2003
It's because their digital channel is 28, which maps to 10-1. While I'm on line however, quick question.

The Cheyenne Local KKTU broke contract with NBC and is now broadcasting ABC. Supposedly they had a digital channel, 11. The conversion from NBC to ABC was prior to me getting my HD receiver. For the life of me, I can't get KKTU (ABC) digital. I can get Cheyenne CBS, and NOW as quoted previously, FOX on 10-1. IS Digital channel 11 active for KKTU. ny assistance is appreciated... Thx... Mike....
gkanders's Avatar gkanders
03:30 PM Liked: 10
post #102 of 1414
09-25-2003 | Posts: 371
Joined: Apr 2002
I think the question is "why does it map to 10-1?" Typically, you would see they map it to 28-1 or 27-1 (the digital or analog channel) Why map to a (seemingly random) 10?
I sent a note to the KKTU engineer and will post any information.

Thanks, Greg
mknoebel's Avatar mknoebel
04:02 PM Liked: 10
post #103 of 1414
09-25-2003 | Posts: 1,179
Joined: Nov 2000
According to antennaweb.org, KKTU is indeed an ABC affiliate. It also says it's live now, but I'm not getting it.

I don't know how the change of affiliates will change their plans, but I got this email from their chief engineer on September 2:

> It looks like we will have three standard definition channels available
> instead of HDTV. And as of now they will all be Spanish programming.
>
> It is now scheduled to be on the air by October 15th.
>
> Mike Brown
> Chief Engineer
> K2 TV
gkanders's Avatar gkanders
04:45 PM Liked: 10
post #104 of 1414
09-25-2003 | Posts: 371
Joined: Apr 2002
I received this from Mike today:

> Still working on the low power. Even when it is running I don't think you
> could see it. The high power is still in process, still 60 to 90 days, and yes
> we did change to ABC in Cheyenne.
>
> Take care.
>
> Mike Brown
> Chief Engineer
> K2 TV

He didn't mention simulcasting 3 (spanish) channels. Hopefully, that was just while they were trying to get a new affiliate agreement in place. We'll see someday.
sunshinedawg's Avatar sunshinedawg
09:03 PM Liked: 10
post #105 of 1414
09-30-2003 | Posts: 313
Joined: Jun 2003
Does anyone have any clue as to whether KKTU's signal is going to be HD or SD?
Christcorp's Avatar Christcorp
09:24 PM Liked: 10
post #106 of 1414
09-30-2003 | Posts: 133
Joined: Apr 2003
This is what I got from Mike the engineer also.

MY QUESTION: Why can't I seem to get KKTU Digital Channel 11?

ANSWER: Probably the first problem is that it has been off for a couple of weeks. We have had some trouble with a satellite receive system at the site and are awaiting some parts.

Second, when it is on its a very low power signal, only about 50 watts. We
are in the process of upgrading to a full power signal and a new antennae.
Hopefully that should be done in the next couple of months.

The low power should be running again in the next week or so.

I hope that helps.

MY QUESTION: Where is the transmitter located and what about HDTV?

ANSWER: The tower and transmitter are at I-25 and Terry Ranch Road. In this case, this was the basic minimum requirement to meet the FCC deadlines, until we get the full power running.

I do not know of any plans currently to do High Definition. The current
plans are to use the bandwidth for multichannel broadcast.

Mike Brown
Chief Engineer
K2 TV
4200 East Second Street
Casper, WY 82609

So it looks like we may not be getting ABC HD from KKTU afterall. Oh well. Later... Mike...
Christcorp's Avatar Christcorp
09:30 PM Liked: 10
post #107 of 1414
09-30-2003 | Posts: 133
Joined: Apr 2003
Question concerning KGWN (CBS) Digital Cheyenne. I know their audio track is messed up. Still was the other night. Read a lot about that in the forum.

How about the HDTV signal??? Do they ever broadcast in HDTV or just their upscaled 1080i signal. I tried watching a few things in the last couple nights that were advertised as HDTV according to Titantv.com . Either they aren't broadcasting much if any in HDTV, or I not really impressed.

I have seen some HDTV HBO on my Directv and it looks much better than the regular HBO channel. Any input on KGWN Cheyenne????

Come to think about it, any new inputs on FOX' future in Cheyenne???? HDTV???

Later... Mike;....
mknoebel's Avatar mknoebel
09:39 PM Liked: 10
post #108 of 1414
09-30-2003 | Posts: 1,179
Joined: Nov 2000
We've been waiting for an HD signal from KGWN for some time now. When they were trying to get their tower/signal up, they were very good at returning emails and letting us know about their progress.

Unfortunately, they (specifically Joan Turner, the GM) has not returned an email in some time. Her email address is at www.kgwn.tv if you want to give it a try. Good luck and let us know if you find out anything.
sunshinedawg's Avatar sunshinedawg
09:43 PM Liked: 10
post #109 of 1414
09-30-2003 | Posts: 313
Joined: Jun 2003
Quote:
I do not know of any plans currently to do High Definition.

Uhh, you just crushed all of my hopes. I knew it was too good to be true.
mbuchana's Avatar mbuchana
09:59 PM Liked: 12
post #110 of 1414
09-30-2003 | Posts: 506
Joined: Aug 2000
I have seen zero HDTV from KGWN-DT. Everything is just a stretched up-convert of their analog channel. And although they have fiddled with the audio a bit, it is still messed up (though I haven't tuned in for a few days to check).

A while back, I wrote to the KGWN web master indicating that their claim of HDTV on their web site was misleading. I got this reply from Jason Lindsey, who is also their chief meteorologist, familiar to KGWN viewers:

-------

Mark,

Hello!

KGWN has been broadcasting its signal in high-definition for several months.
We have actually had several Northern Colorado viewers comment on our high- definition signal that we provide for the entire region. You can find this
high-definition signal at channel 30 on your high-definition television set. I
will send this e-mail to our engineers so that they can send you an e-mail back
explaining in more detail about our high-definition signal. Until then you can
click on the link below to read more about a high definition signal.

http://www.kgwn.tv/station/headlines/337776.html

Thanks and Take Care,
-------

Clearly, Mr. Lindsey didn't know they weren't doing HD. I sent a reply back attempting to describe what was wrong, but he didn't reply after that and neither did engineering. I don't know if they are actively working on HD or not. I do know they have an HD satellite receiver, so I expect the delay is related to time-delay equipment for the mountain time zone, but I am speculating here. I can't figure out ANY reason they won't fix the audio. Since they haven't even acknowledged the problem, I encourage phone calls and e-mails to cbs5tech@sisna.com (copy the general manager at cbs5gm@sisna.com) and let them know you want the audio fixed, and you want CBS HD programming.

BTW, This page gives some station data for the region.

Mark
KC0COU's Avatar KC0COU
10:25 PM Liked: 10
post #111 of 1414
09-30-2003 | Posts: 30
Joined: Nov 2002
I agree that KGWN-DT had not shown any HD content. I've been monitoring on and off since they started and the signal content appears to be a DTV version of their analog feed (including snow). Even shows that could be HD have not. They are encoding at 1920 x 1088 / 30 frames per second in a 16x9 format.

Also the strength never really has increased...I still get drop outs even while using a yagi facing North. If they were at full power, I would expect quite a bit better strength. Fox 32 from Denver is receivable with anything.

Nothing from KLWY-DT (Fox) 28, has anyone seen this lately? I have yet to catch this one.


Ken
Christcorp's Avatar Christcorp
10:46 PM Liked: 10
post #112 of 1414
09-30-2003 | Posts: 133
Joined: Apr 2003
I just emailed the GM at KGWN. We'll see if she responds. FOX channel 28 (10-1) went hot it seems about a few weeks ago or so. I noticed that while fiddling around with my antenna that FOX was pickey. I could get KGWN in any direction. Granted living in CHeyenne Helps. FOX on the other hand seemed much lower power because if I wasn't within 30 degrees I loose the signal. (Rooftop antenna)

I'll be checking with FOX soon to see what their future plans are. Currently it's just digital 480. A little cleaner than their analog, but no major difference.

I guess living here in Cheyenne is a little too far away to pick up Denver. I tried. I can pick up the Analogs half way decent. PBS almost perfect. NBC 80% nice. Same with ABC. No CBS from Denver. A couple other stations here and there. Guess it's just to far for digital. Who knows maybe KGWN, KKTU, and FOX in Cheyenne will do HDTV some day. We'll keep hoping... Later... Mike...
mbuchana's Avatar mbuchana
08:36 AM Liked: 12
post #113 of 1414
10-01-2003 | Posts: 506
Joined: Aug 2000
Ken,

I haven't been able to lock KLWY-DT except for one night, and that was with a lot of breakups. Now it seems to barely move the meter. KGWN-DT is somewhat stronger for me than KDVR-DT. So, I guess it depends on where you live. I see dropouts on KGWN-DT mainly when they are doing "live encoding" like for their local newscast. I don't think that is signal-strength related.

Christcorp,
The main problem with the Denver digitals is they are only low power from a Denver downtown skyscraper. You can only receive them within a few miles of downtown. Check the Denver HDTV Tower thread for more info. The only exception is KDVR-DT Fox (32) from Lookout Mountain.

Mark
Christcorp's Avatar Christcorp
08:38 PM Liked: 10
post #114 of 1414
10-01-2003 | Posts: 133
Joined: Apr 2003
Well, I did receive an email back from the GM, Joan Turner, at KGWN CBS in Cheyenne. She thanked me very much for the email. She thanked me for being polite, knowledgable, and considerate.

"I know, Kiss Kiss". LOL. Anyway, after thanking me, she said she would immediately have her engineer contact me via email to discuss both the AUDIO problem and the HDTV broadcast problem. Or should I say the "Lack of HDTV Broadcast"

She asked that if I did not receive a reply from her engineer within the next couple of days to please contact her again immediately.

So, at least she responded. Maybe because I too kissed up in my email to her. Maybe because I'm a local with greater advertising and buying power. Who knows???

The thing that matters is I currently have her ear and if it get's US HDTV programming with stable Audio, then I will Kiss away.

Actually there are 2 things that I consider important here. One, we on these forums, whether it's here or the ***************.com are sort of family. We share information and that makes everything better for all of us.

2nd, having spent 21 years in the Military and now working for one of the largest telecommunications companies in the world, I've learned the "Give and Take" game. It doesn't matter if I'm a consumer or not. These people are just like us working "X" amount of hours a day to feed, cloth, and house their families.

So for the purpose of HDTV on CBS, Joan Turner and her staff are the MOST IMPORTANT people in the world to me. I'll treat them as such.

I'll keep everyone informed of what's going on. NEXT STOP: KLWY FOX, Cheyenne. LOL... Later... Mike...
KC0COU's Avatar KC0COU
08:53 PM Liked: 10
post #115 of 1414
10-02-2003 | Posts: 30
Joined: Nov 2002
As posted on the Denver forum: Channel 38 is up and running with a good signal here in Wellington. I believe they are broadcasting from Squaw mountain, which gives great coverage up here. There is a point as you get West in Fort Collins where the foothills will shadow the signal, so check it out.

They are running 720x480 at 30 frames/sec tonight. Hopefully they'll run a 'demo' loop to show off 720p or 1080i.

Ken

Edit: Seems they're also using sub channels. I need to download a software plug in to get this feature to work on the WinTV card...dial-ups are slow.

Edit 2: Okay, getting 3 sub channels: #1 is channel 12 feed. #2 is a the blues special, and 3 is a single frame with the station logo.
digiphotonerd's Avatar digiphotonerd
02:09 PM Liked: 10
post #116 of 1414
10-03-2003 | Posts: 150
Joined: Apr 2002
Three cheers for KBDI!!!

Very strong signal here in SE Ft Collins (near I-25 & Carpenter).

As of noon today, channel 38 had:
"12-1" = regular channel 12 feed
"12-2" = "Camp KBDI" (kids' shows)
"12-3" = single frame, something about "PBSYOU" coming soon

Can't wait to see the demo loop...

- digiphotonerd

P.S. In-attic Winegard HD-7082 + AP-8700 preamp, FWIW...
jcloudm's Avatar jcloudm
11:01 AM Liked: 10
post #117 of 1414
10-08-2003 | Posts: 47
Joined: Jun 2003
Apparently, Comcast is now offering HDTV over cable in Denver. Has anyone called to see if it's available in Fort Collins?
mbuchana's Avatar mbuchana
07:01 PM Liked: 12
post #118 of 1414
10-08-2003 | Posts: 506
Joined: Aug 2000
Michael (Christcorp),

Did you get any follow-up from Joan Turner or KGWN Engineering?

Mark
Mgibsoj's Avatar Mgibsoj
08:59 PM Liked: 10
post #119 of 1414
10-08-2003 | Posts: 506
Joined: Jul 2001
I had emailed KGWN also, and received a reply from their engineering dept. The latest word is that most of the equipment for HD is in place and they are awaiting the arrival of the remaining few items. All should be in place shortly. I didnt' ask whether this will resolve their audio problems or the occasional breakups.
Christcorp's Avatar Christcorp
10:37 PM Liked: 10
post #120 of 1414
10-08-2003 | Posts: 133
Joined: Apr 2003
Sorry folks, been away on business. Yes I did receive an email from the engineering staff. Here it is as an exact quote

""""Michael,

Joan passed along your e-mail to our engineering dept. Due to the fact that we must delay our signal up to and sometimes more then one hour we have encountered a small problem with finding a server that will handle the HD signal. Everything else is in place and we should have this resolved very shortly. The other problem we are facing is budget limits. As you know going HD was a big expense. If you have any questions please feel free to contact us.""""

Not a PERFECT response, but as least he responded. Basically we are in a "Wait and See" Status. It does look however as though CBS on KGWN Cheyenne will eventually have HDTV.

Much better hopes than KKTU (ABC) Channel 11(Digital) that doesn't seem to have any HDTV plans for the near future. And of course there's good old reliable FOX Cheyenn KLWY. LOL!!! I'll keep you all posted... later,,, Mike,.,,,

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